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Tornado Terran

Blogs > d1v
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d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
May 19 2008 21:30 GMT
#1
Since I love Vultures and harassment, I want to learn how to do the Tornado. Now, before you flame me, I know there have been some threads about Nada's Tornado style, but somehow, they all derailed and don't contain much viable information. Therefore, I once again kindly ask you to recommend me replays, where Nada does his infamous style against some standard Protoss play. Any suggestions? Thank you all in advance.

d1v

**
Adams Æbler
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
May 19 2008 21:38 GMT
#2
Is tornado terran a heavy vult:tank ratio or a heavy tank:vult ratio?
Sup
aokces
Profile Joined October 2006
United States309 Posts
May 19 2008 21:40 GMT
#3
I think it involves harassing with vults while building up a huge tank army, so heavy tank:vult ratio.
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
May 19 2008 21:41 GMT
#4
Well, as far as I know it's heavy Vulture harassment first, while building up a large number of Tanks. By the time you've reached a nice number of Tanks, you push out and overrun the Protoss. But that's just the very basics. I'm really keen on replays and more info. Pls post, if you know anything viable.
Adams Æbler
Kakashi[Black]
Profile Joined April 2008
84 Posts
May 19 2008 21:41 GMT
#5
its fucking camping and gaining ur 160-200 then go out , meanwhile harrasing anything anywhere with vultures

tank:vult heavy as much as possible, enough vults to block anything
lol
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
May 19 2008 21:44 GMT
#6
the idea is to slow the toss down with vults off 2base, then rolling out right before his citadel tech is done and killing him
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-19 21:48:15
May 19 2008 21:45 GMT
#7
I made a thread in the strategy forum a long time ago, containing the guide for tornado terran supposedly written (then translated by another person) by Nada himself. I know it's a bit outdated, but here you go:

http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=48482
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
May 19 2008 21:45 GMT
#8
I'll try to explain what it is umm...

Heavy harass + amazing multitask = Push out w/ tanks and the protoss w/ nothing

Things that nada does for harass:
4 vulture drop
2 tank cliff drop
vulture expo raid

Keep harassing to keep his unit counts low but equally important you must keep gosu macro up! so that when you push (at the good timing!) he'll have nothing. Simply attack move across the map, no mine, no turret, no siege. Go straight up to his nat and bang it.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
May 19 2008 21:46 GMT
#9
Tasteless said in one of his commentaries that Tornado Terran is lots of vulture with a few tanks. So I assume he's wrong?
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
May 19 2008 21:48 GMT
#10
It's a heavy tank style.

I can't really think of any reps of perfect textbook Tornado style, unfortunately.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
May 19 2008 21:50 GMT
#11
Tornado = enough units so Terran can pretty much flank a toss army
Obviously, tank heavy would work better than vult heavy, but i mean about 48 vultures would get the job done pretty quickly too. If u have gosu mine placements and mass vulture micro, then u should go vult heavy. Tornado is pretty much done to push the toss back so u can just camp in front of his choke and kill the rest of his expos.
im deaf
Polyphasic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States841 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-19 21:54:56
May 19 2008 21:51 GMT
#12
no, if you watch nada's vods in tlpd, nada uses vultures and tanks and marines to push out in early game. then he puts up turrets in front of the enemy's base and expands while he has the enemy contained, or while he has gained some good territory.

his contain, or territory grab usually gets taken out, but by then, nada will have his expo up. then he builds up a bit, and does another timing push. the push wont kill the toss, but it'll be to set up another expo.

nada's tornado style is much like iloveoov's heavy macro style. except in addition to having a solid defense, nada also pushes with tanks and vultures and marines and turrets, which i dont believe oov does much of.

most terran harass is just in the form of vultures, but nada puts up some tanks and turrets and makes the harass turn into a contain.

also, i notice that he always has the same number of factory addons as he does extractors running. so if he has 2 extractors, he'll have 2 fact addons making tanks. 1 new base can run 1 factory making tanks and 1 other factories making vultures. when that base gets full of scvs, it can run 1 tank factory and 2 vult factories. at least that is how nada counts his factories.

most terrans like to micro vultures to keep putting down mines while the protoss is charging. nada likes to push out, then camp, while putting ALL of his vulture's mines down in front of the tanks. then he tells the vultures to be where his sieged tanks are at. when the toss is attacking, nada doesn't seem to micro his vultures much except to make sure they kill zealots that are close enough to his sieged tanks. uh... i think his tanks he tries to micro to kill goons, ... either that or he gets really lucky.

oh ya! he likes using marines other than just for the first push too. they are good for soaking up damage from goons.
can't making a relationship last longer than 2 weeks, since 1984 :thumbs:
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
May 19 2008 22:17 GMT
#13
Bisu vs Nada on Arcadia

Epic match
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
May 19 2008 22:28 GMT
#14
[url blocked]

I uploaded a rep pack of Nada's games. I'm sure in a quite a few TvP's you'll be able to find his trademark tornado style.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
May 19 2008 23:27 GMT
#15
On May 20 2008 07:17 o3.power91 wrote:
Bisu vs Nada on Arcadia

Epic match

here it is: [url blocked]
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
May 20 2008 00:36 GMT
#16
[image loading]


do that after your vult harass
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24752 Posts
May 20 2008 00:39 GMT
#17
As other people stressed it isn't easy to do successfully vs an equally skilled player... but it is a very cool style that I'd wager can be very useful in your repertoire of tvp strategies. When you get good at it please show us a vod/replay :D
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Pafnucy
Profile Joined October 2002
Poland1124 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 01:35:25
May 20 2008 01:29 GMT
#18
My guess is that "tornado" nick came when LT was still popular and in TvP there were lots of gundam rush games, where terran had small contain near toss natural and pushed something like 1 centimeter per 10 minutes ;-) Other than that, terrans did more passive pushes, setting up tank after tank, turret, mine, another tank etc. It was slow position gain type of attacking style, no "go in, siege all, bam bam bam". Nada was often different - he did it with force and in a dynamic way. Other part of the story is that, like people mentioned - had his exp and maybe 2nd one and stayed there with his main force for some time, while doing vulture/vult&dropship raids or mass drops (LT) and in meantime massing large amounts of tanks. Thats the background behind his nickname imo.

edit: more on topic - answering OP

I don't think there is a point in learning that style (it was LT style in most part), since massdrop won't be so effective like it used to be on LT - cliffs over naturals, esp one at 9 overlooking main and nat. If you mean dynamic play with tanks then its already here, in these times its more common to play like that. The thing is: you need a really good timing and evaluation of enemy force so you don't mess up, which is easy because in this style your tanks are much more vulnerable than in slowly setting up across the map type of approach.
Member of the "Fuck Yeah, Canata !" committee :-) to join copy/paste this
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
May 20 2008 02:54 GMT
#19
It can be done on Othello and Andromeda
im deaf
Holylight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Korea (South)460 Posts
May 20 2008 06:58 GMT
#20
Tornado terran is harassing with vults and massing up, then putting machine shop on like all factories and only make tanks!

The best reps of Nada doing tornado terran is when theres like almost a million tanks out and Nada has decided to end the game and rolls out and just rolls over his poor opponent
Holylight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Korea (South)460 Posts
May 20 2008 07:00 GMT
#21
On May 20 2008 06:50 imBLIND wrote:
Tornado = enough units so Terran can pretty much flank a toss army
Obviously, tank heavy would work better than vult heavy, but i mean about 48 vultures would get the job done pretty quickly too. If u have gosu mine placements and mass vulture micro, then u should go vult heavy. Tornado is pretty much done to push the toss back so u can just camp in front of his choke and kill the rest of his expos.


no
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
May 20 2008 08:45 GMT
#22
Thanks so far guys, I think I'll have to continue searching through the GG.net database.
Adams Æbler
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-20 10:11:53
May 20 2008 10:11 GMT
#23
I'm not so sure that the classic tornado is really viable these days, as I feel that the gameplay was a product of both Nada's simply superior mechanics in macro and multitasking (harass + buidling shit efficiently), coupled with the P's relatively undeveloped macro and map control abilities. As the Tosses' macro capacities have developed, the gap between Nada's proficiency and that of his opponent has shrunk, and has most likely rendered the Tornado push not nearly as fearsome as it once was.

However, if you watch some of Mind's recent games, especially on Wuthering Heights, he vulture harasses beautifully and knocks the toss off balance, pushing out with a vastly superior force and just crushes them. So I think his play on that map might be classified as a tornado terran, so check them out ^^. (esp in like weeks 1-3 of PL)

Fitting, that the protege is carrying the torch.
Jayson X
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Switzerland2431 Posts
May 20 2008 10:16 GMT
#24
"OMFG he's going into Tornado mode!!" is the moment were he unsieges all his tanks and rolls over his oponent.

It's vulture harass, a map divided in half, dual armory, insane multitasking and one final critical mass tank push.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
May 20 2008 11:36 GMT
#25
Modern Terrans who revised the old Tornado style play it very vulture heavy. Tank heavy pushes are much slower unless you abuse tank mode, which makes it easier to lose tanks (unless you have an ungodly number of tanks like Nada sometimes does).

True Tornado isn't really the best thing to do anymore. Lots of Protoss these days have pretty safe fast car or arb builds that they can bust out and old school style Tornado takes a while to get going.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Pafnucy
Profile Joined October 2002
Poland1124 Posts
May 20 2008 12:22 GMT
#26
its rather modern terrans don't outclass their protoss opponents like Nada did years ago. Many tank is uneffective and risky, while making tanks from 1-2 factories and rest - vultures allows to be more flexible, not so harass-dependent. All these FE, making tanks -> 4-5 factories added at the same time -> pure vulture => timing push is only viable because of not going pure tank - having a pack of them you need to care about, a core of your formation that wouldn't exist without cheap vulture filler.
Member of the "Fuck Yeah, Canata !" committee :-) to join copy/paste this
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