• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:00
CEST 01:00
KST 08:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202547RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 576 users

Question regarding the "R" word.. - Page 2

Blogs > {CC}StealthBlue
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
May 05 2008 01:14 GMT
#21
On May 05 2008 09:00 HamerD wrote:
@ the op:

the point is that most stupid people are tribal by nature.

I think you could extend the OP's comments and say animals are "evil" by nature. Self preservation > all.

Mada_Jiang, I hope you know that your parents are your parents by much more than faith.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-05 01:16:11
May 05 2008 01:14 GMT
#22
--- Nuked ---
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
May 05 2008 01:21 GMT
#23
Believing something because of evidence would be more than faith. You have actual evidence that your parents are your parents, don't you?
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
May 05 2008 01:32 GMT
#24
On May 05 2008 09:54 Falcynn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2008 09:48 Mada_Jiang wrote:
Lol I dunno what kinda things you heard about Christianity but if you have to follow a predetermined set of morals and rules, that is surely not Christianity.

Are you the son of your parents if you follow a set of rules? No, you are a son by blood, thats it. If anyone tells you that you need to follow rules to get to heaven, THAT my friend is a "religion" and that is wrong.
If there aren't any rules required to get into heaven...then why do people keep telling me that simply believing in Jesus isn't enough and that there are certain things I must do (the things generally depend on what form of Christianity they preach).

If you already explained it then forgive me, I just like arguing

hopefully by this you meant believing that Jesus is your personal Lord and Savior, and that he died for your sins--not merely believing in the existence of Jesus.

If people are telling you that believing in Jesus isn't enough to get into heaven, they aren't practicing Christianity properly.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
May 05 2008 01:35 GMT
#25
--- Nuked ---
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
May 05 2008 02:56 GMT
#26
That's a lovely lesson in morality.

You can rape, murder, and even have premarital sex, and as long as you do it in Jesus' name, you get a free pass.

And how can the matter be "lengthy"? You are saying right here that you need to believe in Jesus to get into heaven, which is obviously a rule. Obviously your religion has rules even if it makes you feel uncomfortable calling them that.
kekekekyle
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada32 Posts
May 05 2008 03:51 GMT
#27
So I don't have to follow the ten you-know-whats, and still get into heaven as long as I believe in Jesus?
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-05 03:57:25
May 05 2008 03:56 GMT
#28
--- Nuked ---
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
May 05 2008 04:02 GMT
#29
--- Nuked ---
kekekekyle
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada32 Posts
May 05 2008 04:03 GMT
#30
Mada_Jiang, are you saying Christianity is not a religion?

And I don't really understand your parents analogy... I know my parents are my parents because there is evidence for it. They are my legal guardians... there is no need to 'believe' they are my parents because the evidence supports it. I can get a paternity/maternity test, whatever.

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say believing in Jesus? I believe he was a real person... but I don't believe he performed miracles, does that disqualify me from entrance into heaven by your definition?
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
May 05 2008 04:19 GMT
#31
--- Nuked ---
kekekekyle
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada32 Posts
May 05 2008 04:29 GMT
#32
But it's not faith... my parents raised and nurtured me, does that not define a parent?

And the belief in the existence of a god and the idea of being saved are part of Christianity, which is a religion.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
May 05 2008 05:14 GMT
#33
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

That's what my dictionary says about religion at least. I understand what you're trying to say Mada_Jiang, that even if you don't actually believe that Jesus is our savior doesn't change the fact that he is. However in this case the whole parent analogy doesn't really work because it's easy to prove whether or not someone's your parent or not, but it's pretty much impossible to prove that god exists or that Jesus is our Lord and savior. The only way to believe in that is to have faith, and religion is essentially deemed as having faith in any higher power without actually having physicaly proof.

I'm not trying to argue whether or not Christianity is right or whatever, I'm just saying that technically it is a religion.
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
May 05 2008 05:16 GMT
#34
On May 05 2008 13:19 Mada_Jiang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2008 13:03 kekekekyle wrote:
Mada_Jiang, are you saying Christianity is not a religion?

And I don't really understand your parents analogy... I know my parents are my parents because there is evidence for it. They are my legal guardians... there is no need to 'believe' they are my parents because the evidence supports it. I can get a paternity/maternity test, whatever.

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say believing in Jesus? I believe he was a real person... but I don't believe he performed miracles, does that disqualify me from entrance into heaven by your definition?


Kyle, I made a few posts about why I think true Christianity is not a religion.

Now, you believe that your parents are your biological parents without tests. you say you "can" get a test, but you don't. You already believe it before you even have evidence.

I don't know why you brought it up though but thank you! That is great example of faith ^.^

About Jesus, you can believe your father existed as a person but you can also say he is just some stranger and is not your father and you got nothing to do with him.


Except you know your parents, you've known them your whole life. What if you were raised in an orphanage with no knowledge of them, and suddenly a random person came to you and claimed to be your father. Should you just automatically believe him? You aren't allowed to ask any question or get any more information, you can just have faith. If your answer is yes, i would be seriously worried about your judgment.

Now say you live in a jungle tribe and you've never heard of any sort of religions. Then one day a man from another tribe says the Great JuJu bird in the sky is your one and only savior. Should you believe him? What if he says Jesus is your savior? Nobody can make informed decisions on faith alone.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24676 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-05-05 05:22:37
May 05 2008 05:22 GMT
#35
On May 05 2008 14:16 LxRogue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2008 13:19 Mada_Jiang wrote:
On May 05 2008 13:03 kekekekyle wrote:
Mada_Jiang, are you saying Christianity is not a religion?

And I don't really understand your parents analogy... I know my parents are my parents because there is evidence for it. They are my legal guardians... there is no need to 'believe' they are my parents because the evidence supports it. I can get a paternity/maternity test, whatever.

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say believing in Jesus? I believe he was a real person... but I don't believe he performed miracles, does that disqualify me from entrance into heaven by your definition?


Kyle, I made a few posts about why I think true Christianity is not a religion.

Now, you believe that your parents are your biological parents without tests. you say you "can" get a test, but you don't. You already believe it before you even have evidence.

I don't know why you brought it up though but thank you! That is great example of faith ^.^

About Jesus, you can believe your father existed as a person but you can also say he is just some stranger and is not your father and you got nothing to do with him.


Except you know your parents, you've known them your whole life. What if you were raised in an orphanage with no knowledge of them, and suddenly a random person came to you and claimed to be your father. Should you just automatically believe him? You aren't allowed to ask any question or get any more information, you can just have faith. If your answer is yes, i would be seriously worried about your judgment.

Now say you live in a jungle tribe and you've never heard of any sort of religions. Then one day a man from another tribe says the Great JuJu bird in the sky is your one and only savior. Should you believe him? What if he says Jesus is your savior? Nobody can make informed decisions on faith alone.
I agree that religion is set up in a way that you can't really be justified in making any logical claims for why to practice it aside from environmental factors.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
May 05 2008 05:50 GMT
#36
--- Nuked ---
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
May 05 2008 06:03 GMT
#37
On May 05 2008 14:50 Mada_Jiang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2008 14:16 LxRogue wrote:
On May 05 2008 13:19 Mada_Jiang wrote:
On May 05 2008 13:03 kekekekyle wrote:
Mada_Jiang, are you saying Christianity is not a religion?

And I don't really understand your parents analogy... I know my parents are my parents because there is evidence for it. They are my legal guardians... there is no need to 'believe' they are my parents because the evidence supports it. I can get a paternity/maternity test, whatever.

Also, what exactly do you mean when you say believing in Jesus? I believe he was a real person... but I don't believe he performed miracles, does that disqualify me from entrance into heaven by your definition?


Kyle, I made a few posts about why I think true Christianity is not a religion.

Now, you believe that your parents are your biological parents without tests. you say you "can" get a test, but you don't. You already believe it before you even have evidence.

I don't know why you brought it up though but thank you! That is great example of faith ^.^

About Jesus, you can believe your father existed as a person but you can also say he is just some stranger and is not your father and you got nothing to do with him.


Except you know your parents, you've known them your whole life. What if you were raised in an orphanage with no knowledge of them, and suddenly a random person came to you and claimed to be your father. Should you just automatically believe him? You aren't allowed to ask any question or get any more information, you can just have faith. If your answer is yes, i would be seriously worried about your judgment.

Now say you live in a jungle tribe and you've never heard of any sort of religions. Then one day a man from another tribe says the Great JuJu bird in the sky is your one and only savior. Should you believe him? What if he says Jesus is your savior? Nobody can make informed decisions on faith alone.


When you go home from work today you will know your house will be there. How do you know it hasn't been burnt down? You know you will have a house to come back to, THAT still takes faith. It also takes faith to sit down on a chair and know that it will be break. We all make decision based on faith in our daily lives.

When I heard about Jesus, I also questioned it like you. You know I once asked the same question as you, why should I automaticly believe him. Btw you are allowed to ask questions, isn't that what you are doing now? lol

I know I won't convince you, so do what I did, and ask God your self. And I believe that he will answer you like he answered me. I accepted Jesus by faith, and I kepted asking God questions and now I live a life growing in Christ. It isn't a real relationship unless there is communication right? So ask questions ^.^

When you have experienced the love of God through Christ you will never be the same again. I personally live a life of miracles and I witness Miracles all the time around me.


Neither of those examples have anything to do with faith. I don't know my house will still be there; it is only very likely. There shouldn't be anything to cause a sudden fire, so i'm not very worried about it.

When you sit on a chair, you do so because you've grown up knowing the function of a chair and how it works. If you had never seen a chair or anything like it in your life, you would be very hesitant to touch it or sit on it. Both of these are based on evidence, verifiable physical experiences that everyone has.

Without the evidence that our senses give us, nobody would do these actions on faith alone. I wouldn't just accept that a house exists at some precise location without seeing it. I would never assume the chair would hold my weight if i had never before seen a chair. I would also never assume a man was my father unless i had known him.

You can try to extend this to God, but that's where it fails. Whereas i can say with confidence that my house exists, or that this chair will hold my weight due to basic observation, nobody can say that about God or his abilities. Any questions about the nature of God/Jesus/etc. are meaningless because they can't be answered with simple verifiable facts.
Mada_Jiang
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Australia236 Posts
May 05 2008 06:22 GMT
#38
--- Nuked ---
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
May 05 2008 06:39 GMT
#39
On May 05 2008 15:22 Mada_Jiang wrote:
So if you believe anything ONLY on observation, then please tell me, do you believe that there was a Roman Emporer named Julius Caesar? There are no photographs of him, you have never seen him before. Do you believe he exists? At the moment there is only written information or word of mouth about his existence.

If you must have evidence that our senses give us, then you will not believe that this Roman emperor existed nor would you believe in any of the figures before Photographic technology was invented.

lol, this topic is turning into something else, but its fun none of the less ^.^.


I don't know for sure he existed, but there are many first hand accounts of him so i would say it is very likely. Also important is that all the record are very similar as to his existence. They all tell me he was a Roman Emperor, the dates he lived, and what he did in his life. Although the evidence is second hand, it is still persuasive.

Why don't we compare the evidence of Caesar with the evidence of God?
Although i have no first hand experience with either of them, all of the records of Caesar are very similar and seem to be reliable. However, some people tell me that there are multiple gods, or some with differnet powers than others. Some say god is an all-powerful, unseen being, or even that he is an Middle Eastern man who lived 2000 years ago. When i ask people how they know, they don't have 1st hand evidence or even 2nd hand evidence; they only have faith which is completely useless when it comes to truth.

These are all very interesting, but there is no evidence to work with, no consensus, no reason to believe one story over the other. The aren't even written accounts of god. In fact the only written evidence of god has been passed down and interpreted so many times, i find it very very unlikely to be true.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
May 05 2008 06:41 GMT
#40
# OP's Question: I believe the three religions you mentioned do reference the same God, and stem from the same origins, thus being known as the "Abrahamic religions". However, there are differences in their belief systems that cause the divide among them. For example, much of Christianity's focus is on Jesus being the son of God and the savior of all mankind. Judaism and Islam do not believe that Jesus was the son of God.

Naturally, a difference of beliefs in humans will lead to tensions, conflict, etc. I don't know if I would consider humans as being evil though. I think it's just because humans are, on average, stupid.


# Whether Christianity is a religion: This is largely an issue of definition more than anything else. It seems to me that under most dictionary definitions, Christianity is a religion. I think Mada_Jiang is just trying to emphasize his belief that you don't have to practice anything to truly be a Christian. Of course, this is just one of many interpretations of the Bible.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .251
Nathanias 229
Nina 160
ViBE23
StarCraft: Brood War
Sexy 37
Bale 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever670
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1359
taco 319
Foxcn274
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe148
Liquid`Ken32
Other Games
summit1g9763
tarik_tv8734
Grubby3023
C9.Mang0220
Maynarde102
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick328
BasetradeTV30
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta63
• musti20045 37
• Hupsaiya 34
• RyuSc2 32
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22671
League of Legends
• Doublelift3668
Other Games
• imaqtpie1105
• Scarra1034
• Shiphtur271
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
11h
Reynor vs Zoun
Solar vs SHIN
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 12h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.