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I played a game on ICCup/TSL last night-a TvZ on Katrina. Because I'm a shithead, I went FBH 7-rax into SK Terran against a player who went 3 hatch lurks into ultra-lurk-ling. Now, from my TvZ experience at D level, I have never lost a single game that I have managed to successfully 7rax. However, what ended up happening was I lost 400 units exactly to his 216 losses, and the only reasons I won were because of my two dozen science vessel irradiate, as well as the fact that I had 6 bases to his 3 and I outproduced him 517-318.
Needless to say, I lost an absolute shitload of marines and medics to lurkers and ultralisks. They died so fast that I didn't even have time to put them into control groups. Not to mention that my APM at the endgame was 63.
My question is, how are you supposed to micro against lurkers with mnm? I realize that you are supposed to spread out your marines, so what I try to do is surround the lurkers before and while they burrow. The problem is that that only works if they have about 4 or so lurkers. If they have 12 lurkers, I find it nearly impossible to break with mnm, and irradiate can only do so much. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with large concentrations of lurks?
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
Tanks?
Lol, its going to take a lot of micro to do that, take a step back and see another way around the problem instead of forcing yourself to micro way better then you can.
Noob suggestion: Wraith+scan/vessels
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Well who runs straight against 12 lurkers anyway!?
Who are you? Zapp Brannigan?
If you have two dozen science vessels just irradiate them.
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pritty much what jayson said, if your going sk just use the vessels
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problem is, i doubt zerg will happily hold position his lurks+ultra right in the middle of the map and let u abuse irradiate
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
Unless it D- to C Zerg, which in most cases for Caller it is, then yes, yes they would.
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u got a rep? it's harder to give advice without seeing it with our own eyes.
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On April 07 2008 21:12 b_unnies wrote:
problem is, i doubt zerg will happily hold position his lurks+ultra right in the middle of the map and let u abuse irradiate
That's true, but you are forced to use irradiate anyway when they are under swarm.
Rather then searching for a method to beat 12 lurkers with marines, it would be smarter to time irradiate as good as you can.
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oh and all i gotta say to this is you gotta pick your spots, scan to see where he positions his lurkers, not to stimpack. use your sci vessel for vision, but comsat to see where he movies his lurkers and how he positions them. so lots of scan, is a good idea.
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United States24782 Posts
Why are you going sk? What's wrong with a more standard army with tanks?
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On April 07 2008 23:59 micronesia wrote:
Why are you going sk? What's wrong with a more standard army with tanks?
that would only work for so long before he started plaquing
also is this in the right section?
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On April 07 2008 23:59 micronesia wrote:
Why are you going sk? What's wrong with a more standard army with tanks?
The problem is my tank control is even worse than my infantry control... and my science vessel control is somewhat decent. So that's not the problem. What is the problem is how I lose more marines and medics than they lose zerglings.
I mean, it's not that I can't micro against lurkers. I can do that. But what inevitably happens is a dozen or so lurkers comes and positions themselves in an area that is really hard to crack with marines, especially when there are ultralisks.
besides whenever i use tanks against ultras i always end up losing all of my troops and they proceed to rush into my base, it's a lot easier to throw wave after wave of marines soviet style against ultralisks.
Maybe i should invent a new style. Soviet Style Terran, based upon large amounts of marines and very few medics until sv count is 12, at which point do a triple dropship into their base and dmatrix all of the marines. Typical soviet tactics....hmm.
and its fine to put this in this area because this is blogs, and you're allowed to whine about whatever you want in blogs.
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i havent played a tvz game where the zerg had enuff gas to make enough lurkers + ultralisks... maybe your not denying his expos?
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On April 08 2008 03:34 Metal[x] wrote:
i havent played a tvz game where the zerg had enuff gas to make enough lurkers + ultralisks... maybe your not denying his expos?
he had only 3 base
everything else was cleansed by a single drop
it also didnt help that i took half the map's expos
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On April 08 2008 01:35 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2008 23:59 micronesia wrote:
Why are you going sk? What's wrong with a more standard army with tanks? The problem is my tank control is even worse than my infantry control... and my science vessel control is somewhat decent. So that's not the problem. What is the problem is how I lose more marines and medics than they lose zerglings. I mean, it's not that I can't micro against lurkers. I can do that. But what inevitably happens is a dozen or so lurkers comes and positions themselves in an area that is really hard to crack with marines, especially when there are ultralisks.
How hard is it to micro tanks, honestly? You don't even have to do anything. You just siege them somewhere in range, surround them with infantry, stim up, and then you can just go make a sandwich or something while the zerg is forced to attack you.
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also consider the fact that they outrange lurkers unsieged, and if your micro is questionable taking the time to siege them might do more harm than good (taking time away from microing your marines, splash damaging your own units)
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On April 07 2008 20:53 Jayson X wrote:
Well who runs straight against 12 lurkers anyway!?
Who are you? Zapp Brannigan?
If you have two dozen science vessels just irradiate them.
lmao these arnt killbots were talkin about =o
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i just cant use tanks properly
in most games where ive used tanks non-mech style
i lose -_-
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United States24782 Posts
I think you should focus on your tank usage more than anything else... I mean, they are very important for all three matchups and are awesome units.
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i meant solely in tvz
in tvt and tvp tank usage is different and its a lot easier to do a push with vultures and gols with the tanks.
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If your APM is 63 then you won't be able to have that good of control anyways. Work on your speed.
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On April 08 2008 08:00 fanatacist wrote:
If your APM is 63 then you won't be able to have that good of control anyways. Work on your speed.
my apm is usually 170
its only 63 when its 28 minutes into the game
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That means it's mostly spam, unless you have absolutely no units/macro going at that point, which is rare and unlikely. The longer the game the closer the average APM should be to your real APM.
Personally, I had 2 games yesterday - first was 11 minutes, and I had 176 APM. Second was 24 minutes, and I had 174 APM. Obviously it will different from MU to MU and from case to case in general, but a drop from 170 to 63 (and apparently you still had a lot of units?) is something you should look into fixing.
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On April 08 2008 09:14 fanatacist wrote:
That means it's mostly spam, unless you have absolutely no units/macro going at that point, which is rare and unlikely. The longer the game the closer the average APM should be to your real APM.
Personally, I had 2 games yesterday - first was 11 minutes, and I had 176 APM. Second was 24 minutes, and I had 174 APM. Obviously it will different from MU to MU and from case to case in general, but a drop from 170 to 63 (and apparently you still had a lot of units?) is something you should look into fixing.
well actually my spam is something like 540
the reason my apm drops like a rock is because my hands get very cold and they're almost paralyzed-it becomes very hard to move them after a while.
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EPT
