• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:10
CEST 14:10
KST 21:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Mile High15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up2PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition245.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)107$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 151Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada11
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) WoL: how does "advanced construction" work? Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition ZvT - Army Composition - Slow Lings + Fast Banes
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle Stellar Fest $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 2025
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Proposed Glossary of Strategic Uncertainty Current Meta TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art 9 hatch vs 10 hatch vs 12 hatch
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
[AI] From Comfort Women to …
Peanutsc
Mental Health In Esports: Wo…
TrAiDoS
Try to reverse getting fired …
Garnet
[ASL20] Players bad at pi…
pullarius1
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1120 users

math puzzle

Blogs > azndsh
Post a Reply
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-24 05:22:21
February 24 2008 04:54 GMT
#1
Here's a short and fun little math problem.

If you take two regular six-sided dice and rolled them, the most likely sum to come up is 7. Suppose instead, you are allowed to relabel the faces of both dice with any numbers between 0-6 inclusive however you want. How would you do it so that all the sums 1-12 are equally likely to come up? edit: they come up with non-zero probably (specifically 1/12)

Please use spoilers.

*****
LxRogue
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1415 Posts
February 24 2008 05:16 GMT
#2
+ Show Spoiler +
all sides of both dice 0, 1-12 have a 0% chance of showing up!
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24705 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-24 05:23:52
February 24 2008 05:23 GMT
#3
I've never heard of a die having 0 as a side...

Is that necessary in order for this problem to work out?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
February 24 2008 05:24 GMT
#4
+ Show Spoiler +

first die: 0,0,0,6,6,6
second die: 1,2,3,4,5,6
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
February 24 2008 08:14 GMT
#5
+ Show Spoiler +

existance:
use standrad die and a die that has 3 0's and 3 6's. Each sum's probability is obviously 1/6*1/2=1/12

Uniqueness:
Say die 1 and die 2 has a1 and a2 number of values on their sides.

a1=1 =>a2=12 no solutions
a1=2 =>a2=6 =>a2 is standard die. a1 has to have 0's and 6's in order to form numbers 1 and 12. Clearly only 1 solution for a1=1 or 6(the one above)
3<=a1<6 =~> 4>=a2<6 =>solutions fail because they can't be equally distributed on the dice (a1 or a2 does not divide 6), creating different probabilities.
This only leaves a1=a2=6 which clearly is no solution.

Got too long for being obvious, but wth
Enter a Uh
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
February 24 2008 09:07 GMT
#6
+ Show Spoiler +
Given a die, we assign a polynomial P(x)=ax^0+bx^1+cx^2+dx^3+ex^4+fx^5+gx^6 to that die.
The coefficient of x^j is defined to be the number of faces of the die with a j written on them, so the sum of the coefficients of P is 6.

Now, if P is the polynomial associated to one die and Q to another, then P times Q represents all the possible sums that come from rolling the two dice and adding the results. In short, to solve the problem we need to find P and Q such that P times Q has all coefficients equal.

We basically want to solve
P*Q=3*(x+x^2+...+x^12) (we get the 3 by noticing that (P*Q)(1)=P(1)*Q(1)=6*6)

Now, (x+x^2+...+x^12)=(x^13-x)/(x-1)=(x)(x^6-1)(x^6+1)/(x-1)=(x)(1+x+x^2+...+x^5)(x^6+1)

Thus 3*(x+x^2+...+x^12)=(x+x^2+x^3+...+x^6)(3x^6+3x^0).

We conclude that one die should be the standard die with 1-6 on its faces, while the second die should have 3 0s and 3 6s.
starleague.mit.edu
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
February 24 2008 10:16 GMT
#7
On February 24 2008 18:07 Muirhead wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Given a die, we assign a polynomial P(x)=ax^0+bx^1+cx^2+dx^3+ex^4+fx^5+gx^6 to that die.
The coefficient of x^j is defined to be the number of faces of the die with a j written on them, so the sum of the coefficients of P is 6.

Now, if P is the polynomial associated to one die and Q to another, then P times Q represents all the possible sums that come from rolling the two dice and adding the results. In short, to solve the problem we need to find P and Q such that P times Q has all coefficients equal.

We basically want to solve
P*Q=3*(x+x^2+...+x^12) (we get the 3 by noticing that (P*Q)(1)=P(1)*Q(1)=6*6)

Now, (x+x^2+...+x^12)=(x^13-x)/(x-1)=(x)(x^6-1)(x^6+1)/(x-1)=(x)(1+x+x^2+...+x^5)(x^6+1)

Thus 3*(x+x^2+...+x^12)=(x+x^2+x^3+...+x^6)(3x^6+3x^0).

We conclude that one die should be the standard die with 1-6 on its faces, while the second die should have 3 0s and 3 6s.

Yeah, this is the best way to do it

gj
Enter a Uh
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
February 24 2008 12:07 GMT
#8
The answer I came up with was
+ Show Spoiler +

First die: 0 2 4 6 8 10
Second die: 1 1 1 2 2 2
NathanSC
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States620 Posts
February 24 2008 12:21 GMT
#9
On February 24 2008 21:07 Slithe wrote:
The answer I came up with was
+ Show Spoiler +

First die: 0 2 4 6 8 10
Second die: 1 1 1 2 2 2

Making up your own rules eh?
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
February 24 2008 17:00 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +


Didn't give it much thoughts at all, so probably wrong.

What if I leave 1 die alone, so its faces have 1-6.

I label three faces of the other die 0, and the other three faces 6.

The probability of obtaining a 0 or 6 on the new die is equally likely. The probability of obtaining any number is equally likely for the average die.

So you should be able to get any number b/w 1 and 12 with equal odds.

When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
February 24 2008 17:01 GMT
#11
On February 24 2008 21:21 NathanSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2008 21:07 Slithe wrote:
The answer I came up with was
+ Show Spoiler +

First die: 0 2 4 6 8 10
Second die: 1 1 1 2 2 2

Making up your own rules eh?


The idea is right...
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Moletrap
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1297 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-24 20:01:40
February 24 2008 20:01 GMT
#12
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

aka Moletrap
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Map Test Tournament
11:00
TLMC #15: Group A
WardiTV476
ComeBackTV 463
IndyStarCraft 131
Rex97
3DClanTV 60
EnkiAlexander 24
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko217
IndyStarCraft 131
SortOf 115
Rex 97
ProTech59
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 44392
Sea 3902
Bisu 2712
Shuttle 2294
GuemChi 1289
Mini 1032
Larva 556
firebathero 437
hero 324
Light 170
[ Show more ]
Snow 168
Soma 165
zelot 115
Free 103
ToSsGirL 100
Rush 94
Soulkey 93
sorry 70
Mind 64
Aegong 57
Sea.KH 49
JulyZerg 47
HiyA 22
Icarus 17
Hm[arnc] 17
scan(afreeca) 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
NaDa 7
Dota 2
Cr1tdota757
qojqva621
XcaliburYe220
PGG 111
BananaSlamJamma55
Counter-Strike
x6flipin501
allub105
Other Games
singsing1879
B2W.Neo692
crisheroes382
Pyrionflax270
DeMusliM193
byalli178
Mew2King55
hiko41
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2672
• WagamamaTV205
• Noizen45
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
11h 50m
Map Test Tournament
22h 50m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 10h
The PondCast
1d 21h
Map Test Tournament
1d 22h
Map Test Tournament
2 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Map Test Tournament
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
4 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
Safe House 2
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
OSC
4 days
IPSL
5 days
dxtr13 vs Napoleon
Doodle vs OldBoy
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Team Wars
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Acropolis #4 - TS2
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
Frag Blocktober 2025
Urban Riga Open #1
FERJEE Rush 2025
Birch Cup 2025
DraculaN #2
LanDaLan #3
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.