• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:02
CEST 16:02
KST 23:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0
Community News
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)59Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition275.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 154
StarCraft 2
General
PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I'm making videos again BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game Whose hotkey signature is this?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art Current Meta Proposed Glossary of Strategic Uncertainty 9 hatch vs 10 hatch vs 12 hatch
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Stop the Construction YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1192 users

Rise Secularists!

Blogs > jtan
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-24 19:48:18
September 24 2007 16:49 GMT
#1
I'm Jonathan. Currently 21 years old and studying physics engineering and theoretical mathematics in Lund, Sweden.

I'd like to dedicate this blog to the subject of religion but also science, philiosphy and politics to some extent.

The initiative for this comes from RebelHeart's blog which surprises me with even more riddiculus entries all the time. From my perspective religion is essentially bad for the society. While bringing comfort to some people, it undermines science and rationality and I simply think the world would be a better place without it. I know many other atheists think different about the role of relgion in society, but I'd be happy to discuss any such issues.


So! Let's start with introducing some of the important actors!

-------------------
Name: Richard Dawkins
[image loading]


Description: Professor of the "public understanding of science" in oxford, UK. Probably the most famous atheist there is. He regularly attends debates, interviews and seminars conserning religion. He has written many books, mainly about evolutionary biology. In his latest book "The God Delusion" he argues against religion and its position in society. He has also produced a large number of TV programs about religion, science and evolution.

Introductionary video:

Short Video intreview.

Jtans comments: This guy is awesome, an oldschool englishman with a sharp mind and a quick tongue in the debates. I've read 3 of his books: "The God Delusion", "The Selfish Gene" and "The Blind Watchmaker". I recommends all of them, especially the first one. The way he writes is just beautiful!
-------------------
[image loading]

Name: Sam Harris
Description: The younger and American version of Dawkins. Argues stridently against religion and attends many TV-interviews in the US. He recently wrote "The End of Faith" mostly decribing the problems with Islam but also religion in general. As he recieved thousends of mails from angry christian Americans he wrote "A letter to a Christian Nation" as a response to the letters.

Introductionary video:

Well Bill is just stupid, Sam gives him a beating.

Jtans comments:
I read his "The end of faith", a great book with a lot of controversial ideas. Sam is especially great during his interviews. He is really smart, and always stays cool no matter how much some stupid fox news gal tries to offend him. Don't think I've seen him "lose" an argument (even though that is based on ones point of view).

------------------
[image loading]

Name: Daniel Dennet
Description: Oldschool philosopher, the pic says it all
His major critique to religion is in his book "Breaking the spell".

Introductionary video:

A talk at Caltech after publication of his "Breaking the spell"

Jtans comments: Did not read "Breaking the spell yet", but read his "Understanding Consciousness in Humans and other Animals". He's smart and brings forth a lot of great ideas on how to look upon things.

----------------------------------
[image loading]


Name: Christopher Hitchens
Description: American citizen as of late. Author, columnist, journalist etc...
His main fields of interests are religion and free speach.
Often gets himself invited to comment about different things in the american TV-channels.

Jtans comments: I really like this guy even if he's a real asshole to some people. He generally shows up drunk for his interviews and once said that his daily intake of alcohol was enough "to kill or stun the average mule". He also smokes heavily Ignoring these things he's an awesome person. He is intelligent and doesn't hesitate a minute to say what he thinks.

Here is an awesome interview with him. It's after Jerry Falwell died and Hitchens had said a lot bad things about him like "I'm sorry there's not a hell for him to go to". So fox brought him in just to pretty much make him say he atleast was a little bit sorry for him and his family. Enjoy.


---------------------
Ecen though there are a lot of other interesting names, the above four are often described as the frontier of those questioning religion.


So which of the above do you enjoy listening to the most?
If you think all of them are full of shit, don't vote.

[image loading]

Poll: Which one will it be?
(Vote): Dawkins
(Vote): Harris
(Vote): Dennet
(Vote): Hitchens

edit:spelling~~


*****
Enter a Uh
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-24 16:57:31
September 24 2007 16:56 GMT
#2
Nice blog

Please someone find the YouTube video with the guy in Salt Lake City trying to convert Mormons to atheism.

Dawkins ftw. I like his eloquence with words, and I've heard good reviews for The God Delusion. Even as a Christian, it's on my to-read list.
EDIT: btw, soci"E"ty.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-24 17:02:37
September 24 2007 17:00 GMT
#3
well, dennett is the only respectable guy in the bunch. the other guys are just pop figures.

hitchens is just an ass
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
September 24 2007 17:15 GMT
#4
I've studied Dennett's book Breaking the Spell under a professor who knows Dennett personally. He made it clear that Dennett is not as open-minded as he likes to present himself in his public material.

I don't like the direction I've seen Dawkins taking in recent programs and speeches. It seems like he's gotten into the atheism movement without knowing how to lead a movement. Or at least he has nothing new to bring to the table. When using mass media, it takes more than a logical argument to convince people and he lacks anything else. It seems he's relied on reasoning too much because he comes to a dead-end with people who prefer to make major decisions in direct opposition to what reason advises. Perhaps he should consider the fact that the percentage of the population that can act on logic and reasoning all of the time is in the minority. And this is a broader issue than atheism and religion.

I don't know the other two.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
to miss the mark
Profile Joined November 2005
Bosnia-Herzegovina1381 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-24 18:00:26
September 24 2007 17:45 GMT
#5
Harris.
or Dawkins.

either or!
Act happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love, and do what you will.
Aepplet
Profile Joined December 2003
Sweden2908 Posts
September 24 2007 19:00 GMT
#6
Nony is making a good point here. Not everyone is persuaded by reason right away.
Though I feel like a total sellout for doing so, sometimes you need to play the emotional-argument card first so that you can bring them into the reach of reasoning. We all know religion is playing arguably the dirtiest game on Earth, and it feels like shit having to rely on their methods, but employing a step-by-step method is probably more effective in the long run.
JensOfSweden
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Cameroon1767 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-24 19:21:28
September 24 2007 19:21 GMT
#7
Sorry but Dawkins sucks ass.

Everyone who thinks they are so enlightened and look down and frown upon people with religious beliefs are close to being fascists.
Dawkins serves as a role-model here, it definately appears like he thinks that he is better than alot of people.
<3 Nada [On and off TL.net since 2002
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
September 24 2007 19:40 GMT
#8
On September 25 2007 02:15 NonY[rC] wrote:
I've studied Dennett's book Breaking the Spell under a professor who knows Dennett personally. He made it clear that Dennett is not as open-minded as he likes to present himself in his public material.

I don't like the direction I've seen Dawkins taking in recent programs and speeches. It seems like he's gotten into the atheism movement without knowing how to lead a movement. Or at least he has nothing new to bring to the table. When using mass media, it takes more than a logical argument to convince people and he lacks anything else. It seems he's relied on reasoning too much because he comes to a dead-end with people who prefer to make major decisions in direct opposition to what reason advises. Perhaps he should consider the fact that the percentage of the population that can act on logic and reasoning all of the time is in the minority. And this is a broader issue than atheism and religion.

I don't know the other two.

I agree with you; Dawkins can hold a real solid argument, but he doesn't really fit for a leader figure.

What he says is probably best appreciated by an educated audiance, but I think he does a good job trying to reach out to the public via TV-series like "the root of all evil" and "the enemies of reason".
Enter a Uh
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
September 24 2007 19:44 GMT
#9
On September 25 2007 04:21 JensOfSweden wrote:
Sorry but Dawkins sucks ass.

Everyone who thinks they are so enlightened and look down and frown upon people with religious beliefs are close to being fascists.
Dawkins serves as a role-model here, it definately appears like he thinks that he is better than alot of people.

Yeah, just like every christian think god loves them more than any athesit. People always think they are better then people they believe are wrong.
Enter a Uh
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
September 24 2007 20:02 GMT
#10
On September 25 2007 04:44 jtan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2007 04:21 JensOfSweden wrote:
Sorry but Dawkins sucks ass.

Everyone who thinks they are so enlightened and look down and frown upon people with religious beliefs are close to being fascists.
Dawkins serves as a role-model here, it definately appears like he thinks that he is better than alot of people.

Yeah, just like every christian think god loves them more than any athesit. People always think they are better then people they believe are wrong.

I think you, like most people who subscribe to your position, simply misunderstand the people you criticize (hell, I think I just nailed a larger population subset than I meant to).
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
September 24 2007 20:16 GMT
#11
Care to expand on what it is we misunderstand?
Enter a Uh
RebelHeart
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
New Zealand722 Posts
September 24 2007 20:21 GMT
#12
On September 25 2007 04:44 jtan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2007 04:21 JensOfSweden wrote:
Sorry but Dawkins sucks ass.

Everyone who thinks they are so enlightened and look down and frown upon people with religious beliefs are close to being fascists.
Dawkins serves as a role-model here, it definately appears like he thinks that he is better than alot of people.

Yeah, just like every christian think god loves them more than any athesit. People always think they are better then people they believe are wrong.


At least use intelligent debate rather than having to resort to prejudicial stereotyping
"Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbour as you love yourself. If you do these things you're doing well" - Phil Joel
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
September 24 2007 20:40 GMT
#13
On September 25 2007 05:21 RebelHeart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2007 04:44 jtan wrote:
On September 25 2007 04:21 JensOfSweden wrote:
Sorry but Dawkins sucks ass.

Everyone who thinks they are so enlightened and look down and frown upon people with religious beliefs are close to being fascists.
Dawkins serves as a role-model here, it definately appears like he thinks that he is better than alot of people.

Yeah, just like every christian think god loves them more than any athesit. People always think they are better then people they believe are wrong.


At least use intelligent debate rather than having to resort to prejudicial stereotyping

Sure, I knew someone might say Christians don't think they are better and blah blah

But are you seriously saying Dawkins thinks he knows so much better? Compare it to a republican debating a democrat, both are sure they are right and think the other one is plain stupid. Dawkins is sure that he is right, but at least he is being pretty humble when talking to religious people.
Enter a Uh
vstar
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Korea (South)693 Posts
September 24 2007 20:42 GMT
#14
I voted for Dawkins.
Xiberia
Profile Joined September 2007
Sweden634 Posts
September 24 2007 20:46 GMT
#15
Dawkins.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
September 24 2007 20:51 GMT
#16
I have to go with Sam Harris.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Cpt Obvious
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Germany3073 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-24 20:55:51
September 24 2007 20:55 GMT
#17
Hi, I'm 22, from germany, studying Physics and this is my favourite blog ever.
Nobody ever reads signatures of people like me, do they?
RebelHeart
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
New Zealand722 Posts
September 24 2007 20:58 GMT
#18
On September 25 2007 05:40 jtan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2007 05:21 RebelHeart wrote:
On September 25 2007 04:44 jtan wrote:
On September 25 2007 04:21 JensOfSweden wrote:
Sorry but Dawkins sucks ass.

Everyone who thinks they are so enlightened and look down and frown upon people with religious beliefs are close to being fascists.
Dawkins serves as a role-model here, it definately appears like he thinks that he is better than alot of people.

Yeah, just like every christian think god loves them more than any athesit. People always think they are better then people they believe are wrong.


At least use intelligent debate rather than having to resort to prejudicial stereotyping

Sure, I knew someone might say Christians don't think they are better and blah blah

But are you seriously saying Dawkins thinks he knows so much better? Compare it to a republican debating a democrat, both are sure they are right and think the other one is plain stupid. Dawkins is sure that he is right, but at least he is being pretty humble when talking to religious people.


Well I wasn't the one who said that. But you're resorting to the same tactic by responding the same way. Unless, of course, you were just being sarcastic.
"Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbour as you love yourself. If you do these things you're doing well" - Phil Joel
Cpt Obvious
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Germany3073 Posts
September 24 2007 21:01 GMT
#19
Oh and by the way I only know Dawkins of those four, but I really REALLY enjoyed "Enemies of reason".
Nobody ever reads signatures of people like me, do they?
skindzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Chile5114 Posts
September 24 2007 21:05 GMT
#20
Ive would havae put randy there.
Its not only the rain that brings the thunder
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Map Test Tournament
11:00
TLMC #15: Playoffs
Reynor vs CureLIVE!
ByuN vs Lambo
TBD vs Clem
WardiTV1387
IndyStarCraft 263
3DClanTV 100
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #139
CranKy Ducklings52
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 326
IndyStarCraft 263
Rex 136
ProTech97
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 49013
Shuttle 3491
Horang2 3036
Flash 1916
Rain 1721
Hyuk 1414
BeSt 537
firebathero 334
EffOrt 294
Soulkey 293
[ Show more ]
Mini 291
Hyun 232
Last 104
JYJ101
hero 90
Mong 89
Noble 77
Mind 63
Backho 49
soO 49
zelot 38
Killer 33
Shine 31
ToSsGirL 28
JulyZerg 25
sas.Sziky 24
Free 24
Movie 21
Sacsri 16
Hm[arnc] 15
HiyA 12
SilentControl 12
Terrorterran 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
ivOry 8
Dota 2
Gorgc7276
XcaliburYe654
syndereN221
DeMusliM194
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m1167
pashabiceps531
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor306
Liquid`Hasu38
Other Games
singsing2877
B2W.Neo900
Lowko201
Hui .193
Fuzer 106
ArmadaUGS71
KnowMe17
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 877
Other Games
BasetradeTV79
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1881
League of Legends
• Jankos3014
Other Games
• WagamamaTV385
• Shiphtur138
Upcoming Events
OSC
59m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3h 59m
Safe House 2
3h 59m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19h 59m
Map Test Tournament
20h 59m
TBD vs Spirit
TBD vs herO
OSC
21h 59m
IPSL
1d 4h
Bonyth vs Art_Of_Turtle
Razz vs rasowy
Afreeca Starleague
1d 19h
Barracks vs Snow
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Bisu
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.