• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:14
CEST 03:14
KST 10:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists12[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced10Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid20
StarCraft 2
General
Adeleke University 2026/2027 Admission Form is Out Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A BW General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast
Tourneys
Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [BSL22] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1917 users

The appeal of simplicity

Blogs > waywardstrategy
Post a Reply
waywardstrategy
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
United States62 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-08 16:42:29
March 08 2021 16:38 GMT
#1
It's funny. I have something like 40 games installed on my personal computer and all but about 2 of them are strategy games of some variety. They're not all RTS: I have Total Warhammer 2 installed for instance, and Total War: Troy, and Warhammer 40K Gladius. I also just got and have begun a playthrough of XCOM 2, for instance.

But strangely, I keep coming back to Command and Conquer Remaster. Now, I didn't actually play this as a kid: my first real RTS was Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. I feel at this point that I'm dating myself a bit, but that's OK. I am proud that I lived through so much gaming history.

Anyway, I was thinking recently how funny it is that with StarCraft 2 and Age of Empires 3 and Homeworld installed on my machine, I kept coming back to this old game that doesn't have shift-queueing and doesn't have real fog of war, and whose units and balance are limited and simple and let's be honest, a bit skewed. When I first bought C&C Remastered last year, I expected to get a bit of enjoyment out of it and then quickly bounce off to more modern, complex, and complete games.

And yet here we are.

[image loading]
Why does this keep drawing me back in?

Now, a part of this is assuredly that in many ways C&C95 (I have trouble calling it Tiberian Dawn since that, to the best of my knowledge, was not the original name of the game) is less stressful to play than something like StarCraft 2 or Company of Heroes 2. Jump into a match, and 5-10 minutes later it's basically done, and even in that short time you've had several clashes with your enemy. Even if the match ends with something like 1000 bikes and buggies eating your ConYard for breakfast, it's over quickly and you can jump back into a new match with less than 15 minutes lost to your ignominious defeat.

That's definitely part of it. The Command and Conquer games I tend to focus on: C&C95, Kane's Wrath, and Red Alert 3, all tend to have pretty quick match times compared to most other RTS, and even in a 7 minute match in each of these games, you're likely to have several clashes with your opponent.

[image loading]
A 10 minute Red Alert 3 match can have more combat and interactions than a 20 minute match in many other RTS games.

In some ways, these games are all about churning out a ton of units and throwing them into your enemy's army (or armies). You don't have to worry about researching any tech, nor any unit special abilities. Just make buildings, make tanks, and get to it. There's something almost refreshing about the simplicity, and just enough complexity in terms of when to build, what to build (having a second vehicle production structure is really important, especially against Nod who can almost always snipe a building if they're really trying) and its unit interactions to keep me coming back.

The other C&C games I mention above are similar in terms of the mechanical demands they put on the player in terms of getting an economy up and running (while adding depth as well as convenience of course), while also having more depth in terms of unit interactions and choice in terms of tech progression, as well as having more consistent and understandable tech progression (for some reason I have trouble keeping various unit unlocks in C&C95 in my head).

C&C95, even more than Red Alert, is limited and skewed. Faint praise for a game that I keep coming back to, maybe, but absolutely accurate. Only a handful of units are really competitively viable, and as GDI winning can be a huge uphill battle, since a lot of the best tools for aggression and harassment, like attack helicopters and bikes and buggies, are only available to Nod. But in a way, that can kind of take the pressure off a bit. It's so frenetic and kludgy and imprecise in terms of engagements that it can let you feel ok with a loss in a perverse sort of way.

Not that necessarily as a game designer I'd want to take too many design lessons from the direct mechanics and rules of C&C95. There's lessons to be gleaned from each of the C&C games (yes, even Tiberian Twilight!) But sometimes, that simplicity is a breath of fresh air.

[image loading]
Maybe some day I'll speculate on some of the things C&C4 actually kind of did well. Today is not that day though.

All of the C&C games share this to an extent (with the possible exceptions of Red Alert 3 and Generals: Zero Hour). Light on unit abilities and relying more on timings, flanking, and seat-of-the-pants, "oh crap!" desperation reactions, Command & Conquer allows me to play an armchair general and not... worry so much about keeping up with an extended build order as in StarCraft or Supreme Commander. There's something about being able to sell off buildings that you don't need, or rid yourself of them before your opponent can kill them off, coupled with the ability to train an infantry unit in 6 seconds or a tank in 12, that can (in the best of times) allow you to shift and react and just hold it together long enough to try to make something happen.

Of course it's not always this way, and I'm not trying to say that C&C95 is a particularly spectacular game. Rather, that it's just good enough to keep me coming back due to its simplicity, the ease at which you can just sit down and churn out a ton of Grenadiers and Medium Tanks and try to fight your way to victory. There's no need to build 18 Barracks and 20something factories, there's no fiddly upgrade timings or Dark Templar or missing with Psionic Storm. It's... sometimes... refreshingly simple, and refreshingly easy. The lack of depth is offset by the smoothness of the gameplay, perhaps?

The other C&C games keep this balance regarding ease of playing offsetting any potential lack of depth (for me). For the record, I do not think that Red Alert 2 nor Red Alert 3 nor Kane's Wrath etc are shallow games anyway, but they all have this same feeling of just being able to slide into the gameplay that I find addictive. Win or lose - and let me tell you the latter happens a lot more often than the former - at least it's over quickly (most of the time anyway).

[image loading]

On a whim I recently loaded up Act of Aggression: Reboot Edition, and one thing that really stands out to me coming back to it is that it feels cumbersome and unfriendly for some reason. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what its core issues are, but for sure the tech tree feels kind of muddy: what is the next thing I need to unlock or build? Where do I go from here? It feels like it makes you guess, I guess? There's a lack of clarity there that frustrates me.

When it comes down to it, depth and gameplay variety is a big part of what keeps a game around long term. There's a reason, after all, why Brood War and Age of Empires 2 and StarCraft 2 have such longevity. But for me, at least sometimes, simplicity has an attraction all its own. And to me, lately, Command and Conquer: Remastered and Kane's Wrath have been scratching that itch.

Actually, I occasionally dip into the Steam version of Z as well. It's one of the oldest games I still have installed, and while it's a little long in the tooth and the AI isn't as good as I recall it being in the original version, it's another one of those games whose simple yet satisfying gameplay systems for which I have an enduring affection.

[image loading]

The race to capture territory, the positioning game of troops and tanks, the struggle to make use of those damn grenades that soldiers throw away like they're going out of style... In some ways, it's actually relaxing (if such a term could be applied to a competitive game) compared to games with deeper and more involved systems like Company of Heroes 2 or StarCraft 2. At the very least, the approachability is something I'm really appreciating in my games right now.

BTW you can read this on my blog (plus my other RTS musings and thoughts) if you want https://waywardstrategy.com/2021/02/23/the-appeal-of-simplicity/


*****
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-08 20:58:06
March 08 2021 20:40 GMT
#2
I have trouble calling it Tiberian Dawn since that, to the best of my knowledge, was not the original name of the game


The manual for Command & Conquer refers to it as Command & Conquer: Tiberian Dawn.
I read it and the director says thank you for buying tib dawn, or some statement like that.

Edit: However, the C&C Gold manual doesn't have it

Edit: Actually it wasn't in the manual, but in some readme file that I remember reading it in.
I think that it was a working title that they eventually changed to just Command & Conquer, but the readme file kept it in.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
waywardstrategy
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
United States62 Posts
March 08 2021 20:58 GMT
#3
On March 09 2021 05:40 vOdToasT wrote:
Show nested quote +
I have trouble calling it Tiberian Dawn since that, to the best of my knowledge, was not the original name of the game


The manual for Command & Conquer refers to it as Command & Conquer: Tiberian Dawn.
I read it and the director says thank you for buying tib dawn, or some statement like that.

Edit: However, the C&C Gold manual doesn't have it

Edit: Actually it wasn't in the manual, but in some readme file that I remember reading it in.
I think that it was a working title that they eventually changed to just Command & Conquer, but the readme file kept it in.


Interesting! I didn't know.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26604 Posts
March 09 2021 03:01 GMT
#4
Have you ever delved into YouTube content?

Having read most of your blogs and checked your site out it seems to me a lot of the stuff would translate to that medium well and you’ve done the brainwork already.

I’d certainly watch the shit out of them anyway!

I think my personal tastes differ, but I totally get where you’re coming from with just sitting back and relaxing. For me I love the micro and responsiveness in the Blizz games is something I find relaxing to focus on so I’ll redo campaigns playing extremely badly in a strategic sense but just try to play constantly aggressive and micro my way through.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7148 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-09 11:04:52
March 09 2021 11:04 GMT
#5
I think Z was among my first RTS games ever and I have very fond memories of this. Though playing it again today would probably destroy those memories. Better let it rest in piece
Z, Warcraft 2, C&C and AoE (and maybe Settlers? Not sure ^^) brought me into this beautiful genre that I never could get enough of <3

Ease of play: I remember beeing on a LAN party over 10 years ago and nobody knew or at least nobody could play Starcraft and everyone wanted to play C&C (I think Red Alert). God how I destroyed those noobs with superior micro/ macro even though I barely had touched the game before. Starcraft Masterrace xD
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
waywardstrategy
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
United States62 Posts
March 10 2021 02:05 GMT
#6
On March 09 2021 12:01 WombaT wrote:
Have you ever delved into YouTube content?

Having read most of your blogs and checked your site out it seems to me a lot of the stuff would translate to that medium well and you’ve done the brainwork already.

I’d certainly watch the shit out of them anyway!

I think my personal tastes differ, but I totally get where you’re coming from with just sitting back and relaxing. For me I love the micro and responsiveness in the Blizz games is something I find relaxing to focus on so I’ll redo campaigns playing extremely badly in a strategic sense but just try to play constantly aggressive and micro my way through.


I actually do have a YouTube channel. Most of my content is commentary of 1v1 matches in Grey Goo, C&C3, C&C Remaster, and Universe at War. I've done a couple other things, like a 3-4 episode 'podcast' and some quick game overviews, things like that.

For me it's less about relaxing. It's more about feeling like I'm fighting against a game. A good example is Act of Aggression, where the economy scaling is unclear and the tech tree is a mess, the 'endgame' resource and economy is a right turn from the rest of the game, and several of the mechanics are unintuitive. There might be depth there, there might be something worth learning, but the very act of playing is frustrating enough to be a turn off.

The C&C games kind of grease the wheels. Each building is a choice, there's enough units where you can trade armies on a regular basis.
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
March 15 2021 06:27 GMT
#7
Damn. Was C&C4 that pretty ? And it's quite old...

Best example of good graphic doesn't make a good game then
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3265 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-17 01:39:44
March 17 2021 01:38 GMT
#8
I feel that this somewhat goes back to defender's advantage/comeback mechanics. Historically a lot of competitive RTS would provide the defender with strong advantages to stop rushes and possibly allow comebacks. But in reality this often leads to one side controlling the map and building up to break the defenses, effectively nulling any aggressive play and stalling the game.

Games like Sc/Sc2 have introduced dropships and other flying harass options to allow defensive players to move out on the map, which is quite necessary because the racial asymmetry usually leads to one side automatically dominating the map unless the other side commits to an all-in. The CnCs I played on the other hand mined out quickly enough that turtling was mostly suicide and the defender's advantages outside of defensive structures weren't large enough to turn the match after a lost battle. This creates short action-packed matches.

On a side note MobAs like Dota 2 suffer from the same stalling factor where one side controls the map until it generated enough advantage to break the base.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10313 Posts
March 17 2021 12:53 GMT
#9
Z was insanely tough for me as a kid - perhaps that is why you think that the AI got worse, because the reality is that we are older, more experienced, etc. Still a great game, and I didn't know about the Steam version! Cheers.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
uThermal 2v2 Circuit S2 Mar
CranKy Ducklings98
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech150
SpeCial 116
RuFF_SC2 112
Vindicta 16
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6274
Artosis 674
Hyuk 139
SilentControl 18
NaDa 9
ivOry 4
LancerX 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever541
capcasts136
NeuroSwarm69
Other Games
summit1g12661
tarik_tv7294
C9.Mang0509
shahzam400
Trikslyr159
Maynarde120
ViBE88
Livibee29
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV350
Counter-Strike
PGL85
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 75
• davetesta40
• musti20045 12
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 33
• RayReign 26
• Azhi_Dahaki2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4505
• Stunt215
Other Games
• Scarra1002
Upcoming Events
Escore
8h 46m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
9h 46m
OSC
13h 46m
Big Brain Bouts
14h 46m
MaNa vs goblin
Scarlett vs Spirit
Serral vs herO
Korean StarCraft League
1d 1h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 9h
IPSL
1d 14h
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
1d 17h
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
CranKy Ducklings
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL
2 days
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-15
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W3
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.