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Have you ever seen something you loved be turned into absolute shit? Do you love anime, but are ashamed to admit it in real life because you don't want to be associated with weebs? Can you no longer wear fedoras because they've become the hat of douchebags?
And don't say to me, "Who cares what anyone thinks?" because that's a bunch of mythological bullshit. Of course we care what people think. If we didn't care, society would break down, and people would be eating each other, and packs of wild feral cats would roam the streets, killing anyone who sets foot outside after sundown. The reason we have the nuclear weapons necessary to defend against feral cat invasion is because we worked together. Of course, people can work together to do some pretty awful shit, like electing Donald Trump to the presidency of the United States.
I was thinking about this recently because my friend Kyle (who is Jewish) kept hounding me to watch The Adventures of Rick and Morty. I felt a lot of peer pressure from him, because I made some risky choices when it came to watching movies and I am not proud to say that these choices ended in disasters. So I was like "You pick what we're gonna watch, then." but tee-bee-aytch, Rick and Morty had been on my watch list for awhile now. I saw a couple of clips from the show when season 2 was coming out, and I thought it looked good/funny, but I just didn't make the time before. I finally watched the show and really liked it. As fate would have it, now there is a huge movement of people who think Ricky and Morty sucks dicks and cocks, because the fandom turned toxic.
I just kind of binge-watched the series in a vacuum, so I just experienced the show without having any engagement with the fandom. I think if I was an Original Gangster fan, I might have a different perspective than I do now. I know this because I used to love Southpark (I still kind of do), but I hate how stupid shit from the show turns into memes. A grape example of this is "Member-berries". I've been making of people for nostalgia before it was mainstream, because I'm a fucking hipster piece of trash and this whole blog is me being a hipster elitist and if you read this whole blog from start to finish, you will actually get AIDS. Anyhoo, people would post a picture of "Rugrats" and go "REMEMBER RUGRATS? KIDS TODAY WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW GOOD CARTOONS USED TO BE." and I'd start yelling "REMEMBER x!?" but now when I do it, people go "Member?" in the member-berry voice. So fuck the member-berries. I hope they get squished by a huge boot that stomps in the face of humanity forever.
This is what I refer to as "The curse of going mainstream". It's when something cool becomes heavily saturated by the stupidest people imaginable. Kind of like American Football. A bunch of dummies who are overweight and unathletic get together to drink terrible-tasting beer, while wearing shirts that look like the jerseys of their favorite team and yell at the screen. "Great job dropping that pass, idiot.", they'll say to the screen. Or like, a kicker has to kick a 60-yard field-goal, and misses, and the watchers are like, "Fucking idiot. It's your job to kick the football, and you missed that? Jesus christ on a bun, fire that piece of shit kicker and get someone who can actually do the job before I physically abuse my dog and treat people poorly at my place of employment out of sheer anger!"
This is precisely what you do NOT want to have happen to "E-Sports". If you like the idea of E-Sports at all, make damn sure it never becomes mainstream, or else, your old bones will ache, and you will no longer be able to hold up the wall that holds back a deluge of diarrhea from flooding the scene. Imagine if StarCraft: Brood War became mainstream tomorrow. The strategy forum would be flooded with posts like this:
Subject: pvz wut i did wrong??
hi i am 13 so im sorry 4 my spellin but nehow i been plain pvz n cant win a single game. wut did i do wrong? heres a link to my game
Response: You don't know what you're doing at all. Your build order is nonsensical, you have like 9 workers on minerals, and even then, your macro is terrible and you went up to 3000 minerals by the 14-minute mark. You need to work on basic mechanics.
OP: ok thx
ONE WEEK LATER
Subject: hi pvz again?
hi guys i am improving but i cant find any build orders because liiqupedia is shit and none of the builds there work and i herd all the builds on there are outdated and so fuck liqupedia give me some real bos
Response (which is from someone who is like C- / 1900 mmr): go ffe, get core, go tech, make gates, expo, 12 gate, take map, expo w/ reaver/cannon everywhere, gg ez
OP: when do i get sair
Response: after u get stargate
OP: ok
ONE WEEK LATER, AGAIN
Subject: pvz sucks ass
hi guys i fukn hate pvz this game is such a fukn joke i went to bisu to learn bos n shit and even he was dyin 2 hydra bust and its like unstopable so fuk blizzard and fuk protoss!! any advice my protoss bros n if you play z then fuk u peaces of shit.
Response: Yeah, he does the hydra bust at like 12 minutes into the game and you don't have high templar until 10 minutes, so you need to fix your timing badly.
OP: thats so fukd that i have 2 play perfect or else 2000000000000 hydra come into my nat n cuck my shit into ublivion. fuk i hate this game
Response: You need to practice, that's all. If you're not enjoying the game, you can always take a break to play something else, or play 2v2, 3v3 bgh or ums or something, so you can play a bit more casually and just enjoy playing without the pressure of playing 1v1.
OP: 2s are boring 3s are boring n ums is for peasants and im a 1s player but i think its pretty telling that ur advice is 2 stop playing the game; thatz pretty wack u fuckman. y do u waste my time with this nonadvice u gayfish (thats a southpark ref if u didnt no lol) im kind of kiddin dont take it 2 heart but srsly wut is this deal givin me advise that is udderly worthless
Response: You suck, uninstall the game and go back to playing Call of Duty, kiddo.
OP: listen here u stupid fuk i culd have ur computer filled 2 the brim w/ cp in like 2 minutes becuz i am a computer hacker n i will call the fbi on u and ruin ur life if u ever cross me u retard i am not even kiddin just shut up b4 i cuck u up the a*s u stupid fuk fuck u
Response: Fuck you, suck my dick.
OP: fuk u im fukn ur gf and i fuk ur mom n they love my big cock u cuck so eat my a*shole
Response: Get the fuck off this forum, you retarded 11-year-old. I have never considered beating up a kid until now, but I will eviscerate you if I ever get the chance. Jesus, what a retard. You don't know my girlfriend, and your IQ is probably single-digit.
OP: ur rite i dont no ur gf but i no wut her tongue feel like on my big cick u dumb fukcing giant stupid faggot i am hackin ur comp rite now but i will stop if u say sorry and offer to suck my giant ass dick rite in ur gay mouth u stupid
Response: You're a cunt, kid. You're not a computer hacker. You don't know my girlfriend, and suck my dick.
OP: i am in the mexican mafia n i got the cartel outside ur house u fuccman puto chinga tu mama tu eres un maricón hijo de puta me cago en todo lo que se menea qué cabrón yo cago en la leche de tu puta madre yo chinga tu hermana vete a la verga culero jode tu madre ayer noche... come mi choriza
Response: The wall just got 10 feet taller.
Me:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/oJMxde2.jpg)
Is this what you want? Constant balance whine, pseudo-intellectuals, arrogant idiots, etc., think mid-2000s TL. Of course, tons of dumb clueless fans. Millions of trolls, who think spamming ascii swastikas in twitch chats is the height of wit.
"Don't we have those now?"
NO. NOT ON THE SCALE THAT I AM PROPOSING. I am talking about some idiot girl who starts a game against the computer, but doesn't send her probes to mine minerals or anything, but immediately gets up and shows off her "sexy defiler cosplay" while her single building is burned down by the computer and she screeches laughter and yells in a high-pitched voice, "OH MY GOD I'M SO BAD HEHEHEHEHE BUT I'M CUTE SO THAT COUNTS, RIGHT?" and gets 27,000 concurrent viewers. And the twitch chat is just people spamming emotes and Ned Flanders with boobs so hard that the chat is literally a blur. Times one hundred. Thousand. I am talking about taking StarCraft down to the lowest common denominator, where everyone who "plays" is a douchebag. Everyone. There is literally no one worth talking to. You go on battle.net and anyone you talk to is simply there just to ruin your day.
This isn't Korea. Think of all the most popular things in the United States and Canada: Kim Kardashian, Justin Bieber, American Football, McDonald's cheeseburgers, fidget spinners, candy crush, Fast and Furious 7, twerking, Family Guy, Donald Trump's Twitter account, listening to Wiz Khalifa, selfies, and Adderall. As a society, we are really, really bad at liking things and not ruining them. Remember Myspace? Tom wishes he didn't. That's why he drinks and cries every night for not auto-banning every emo kid's account.
That's not the end of my rant.
I know, in the recent past, I've been critical of people jumping on the SC:R bandwagon. Boi, that was a mistake on my part. There's nothing wrong with being excited about SC:R, or loving StarCraft. It just annoys me when someone claims to be about that StarCraft life when they ain't about that life. It's not a game. It's a lifestyle. That's why I have a tattoo that says "Zerg Life" on my stomach. It's why I blast gats in these streets while practicing dank build orders and apm on my keyboard that I carry around with me. I slap cellphones right out of a 9-year-old's hand while he plays Clash of Clans and tell him to play a real fucking game right in front of his goddamn single mother.
So when people were like "Brood war back!!!" I was like "It never left." because it didn't go anywhere, but I know where people DID go. A little game called StarCraft 2: Revenge Of The Sith dropped in 2010. Everyone hopped on that dick-wagon for various reasons, but I'll give you hint why: it wasn't for the lit custom games.
It was a fresh start. Koreans were too gud, and the prospect of becoming a pro-gamer was an impossibility for all the inferior races of white people, and for like the five black guys who played. And a foreigner girl progamer? Nah. Not even possible. But with SC2, the scene was fresh. A foreigner could rise to the very tip-top. The dream of being the person on the stage getting into the booth became real. The result? A mass exodus from StarCraft: Brood War into SC2.
During this dark time, I was irritated by SC2 fans who openly advocated for killing Brood War so the "scene wouldn't be split". I definitely let them get under my skin, but I had invested so much time into BW that I was kind of emotionally invested. It had become my favorite game of all time, and if Taylor Swift won the award for "best game", I'd jump up on stage and say BW best waifu. Not a lot of people agreed with me. "Both games are good, but I prefer SC2, because that's where the people are." I'd hear. See, the same feeling I had... that feeling of emotional investment... a lot of people put that into SC2, and worked really hard to make it their game. I understand that. I also understand that when BW was shrinking exponentially, it was a really depressing time for a lot of people, and I don't blame anyone who put the game down at that point. I wish they hadn't, but it wasn't up to me. I don't want to quote someone if I can't get the exact quote, but Bakuryu said something like "Once you got high enough, there was nobody to play. You log on, and there is no one in A/B ladder."
I commend everyone who gutted it out and just kept playing. I even took a big break during 2015 to focus on school. I always knew I'd come back to play strictly "for fun", but there was no competitive route at that point. ICCup did a sort of disservice to their ranking system by altering the requirements for getting points, and making it easier to get a high rank. I saw people I would beat regularly hanging out on the server with B and A ranks. This artificial inflation of ranks basically made iccup ranks worth nothing. So, for that stupid correlation of new sc rm mmr to iccup ranking thread, not only are the estimates completely wrong, but it's a frivolous discussion. The iccup ranks got hyperinflated, and the mmr is in its infancy stage. I rmbr when SC2's highest league was Platinum. Then they added a Diamond league. Then they added Masters. Then they added Grandmasters. I'm surprised they didn't make an even higher league, like "God League". So, even now, I kind of see competitive play as something restricted to decent tournaments, so I wouldn't even bother playing on the SC:R ladder.
Now, everyone's back! After thousands of anti-success stories in SC2, people quit en masse and tried their hand in LoL, DotA2, Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, and so on, and then SC:R was announced! Everyone who jumped ship could "get hyped" (god, I hate this stupid phrase) about the new SC. Which is really just the old StarCraft. While I understand their excitement to see a lot of people coming back all at once, I have three qualms about this, which doctors are going hate me for:
1. Fair-weather fans are a bunch of ninnies. The same people who jumped ship before would probably do it again. There is no loyalty. There is NO BLOOD SACRIFICE. They must repent and sacrifice their best oxen to the StarCraft gods (Flash and Jaedong. Actually, just Flash.) or their crops will wither and die to locust swarms. I mean literal locusts, not that fuckman SC2 unit.
Actually, I just want them to acknowledge, that on some level, they thought SC2 was going to be big, and they made a mistake by abandoning their favorite game ever. I know this will not happen, nor do I expect it to. Nobody owes me anything, and nobody owes Brood War anything. Also, people are notoriously stubborn about admitting they fucked up. "I have no regrets," they say, "I had fun playing SC2 and now I'm never going to play it ever again or speak of it ever again because it was just so much fun."
If I were an SC2 fan, I'd feel incredibly upset right now. People leaving the game left and right, big community figures migrating to Brood War and other games, and Blizzard giving little attention to the game. I actually have a lot of empathy for the SC2 fandom, but they still have a huge playerbase, so I think they'll be fine. It's not going to be as big as it once was, but they have a lot of loyal fans and players.
2. I don't trust Blizzard to ever do the right thing. SC:R has been surprising to me. I sort of expected Blizzard to fuck it up bad. Whenever there's something I hate in the 1.18 - 1.20 patches, they fix it up. I'm surprised by how well they're doing at making the game more modern, but I feel like they're still behind where MCA launcher was in terms of making the interface, interactions with chat, and observer mode better. I also really liked Shieldbattery. I feel horrible because Tec27 spent years building it, and then Blizzard just stepped on it. Not intentionally, I would presume... but you never know. I'd need some definite proof of that before making such an accusation.
What I can accuse Blizzard of doing is as follows: Suing KeSPA, forcing players to switch to SC2, constantly fucking with the balance of SC2 by releasing tons and tons of patches, never letting players get comfortable with the game by constantly changing shit, making nonsensical changes to the game, fucking up Titanfall, fucking up Diablo 3, fucking up World of WarCraft, not learning from their mistakes and tinkering with the balance in Overwatch, waiting 20 years to pay any attention to Brood War, terrible terrible damage, and fucking up the StarCraft lore badly.
SC:R, to me, seems like an attempt by Blizzard to corporatize the StarCraft scene, which was reborn after several top BW players returned and began playing large-scale tournaments. The SSLs were a sugohabnida by Sonic, but it wasn't until ASL1 and ASL2 that SC:BW was getting Blizzard's attention. The stream numbers were like Shakira's hips: they don't lie. Seeing thousands of people tuning in to watch Brood War streams basically told Blizzard that there was still a huge market, and that's when they decided to get involved. That's the only reason Remastered even got made.
Blizzard is making the right moves to monopolize the Brood War market (which sounds weird, because they own the intellectual property rights to the game) by killing off iCCup, Shieldbattery, and asserting greater control over the Fish server. It would be suicidal for Blizzard to shut the Fish server entirely, but I would surmise that Blizzard will attempt to phase it out of existence. With no more pirate servers, Blizzard will control the scene with an iron fist. Will that be a good thing or a bad thing? Only time will tell. I've seen them do a lot of good things so far, which was a pleasant surprise to me, but I can't help but to be suspicious of them.
3. "For the community" is a bullshit line I've heard many times in the past. Everyone (some people, not literally everyone) says that money needs to be pumped into the community in order for it to grow. This is not true.
To quote the late Christopher Wallace, a poet and musician, "Mo money, mo problems". What Christopher Wallace was expressing here was the fact that money creates new dilemmas that did not exist before. Whenever there is money involved, there is the potential for greed and abuse to ruin everything. If sponsors hold the money, they can dictate the terms of conduct by which people must follow. They reserve the right to not distribute funds to anyone for any reason. This means that contracts will come into play, and attorneys will be needed to run a goddamn StarCraft tournament. If the organizers hold the money, they may pocket the money for themselves, and there would be no legal recourse for the players to pursue.
I find some organizers to be unfairly authoritarian just because they CAN be. For example, TotalBiscuit banned people FOR LIFE from certain leagues because they offended him. Granted, some of the offense was legitimate, but for more corrupt organizer who is emotionally unstable, and power-trippy, I see a huge opening for abuse. People should not be able to do whatever they want and make us little peasants dance to their tune just because they have money. I have no patience for people who are manipulative, greedy, corrupt, or power-hungry.
There is a sort-of "don't rock the boat" mentality among some people on Teamliquid. I'm really not talking about anyone specific here. Just in some cases, people would rather avoid confrontation than to deal with a potential problem. I get it, though. I actually hate getting into confrontations because I get really mad, and I hate letting my emotions get that out-of-control. But a confrontation doesn't always have to painful. It can be just a discussion where there are disagreements, and two parties are just ironing out some differences of opinion. There don't need to be any insults hurled or anything like that. But even when a legit discussion is going down, there are people on the sidelines who suddenly decide they are super-righteous and go "This is silly to debate this. You guys are being ridiculous." REALLY?
As long as people are being tactful and empathetic, I don't see a problemo with having a debate. Some things just need to be said. Sometimes, people just have feelings that they need to get out in a constructive way. I know there's a temptation at times to get impatient and lash out during a disagreement, but that's human nature, and that's where the mods will handle it. If someone calls another person a "fuckman", the mods will stop that nonsense... unless their old bones ache and they can't hold up the wall that is holding back an ocean of shit, and then they let go and the wall falls and a tsunami of shit rushes over the landscape to the point where no one can properly moderate the insanity.
Discussion Questions:
Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
  
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"How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?"
I think what we can agree on is that people is different and that only they can truly adress their own intentions. I can tell myself how correct i am for staying with BW and not following the "herd", but you know, that has probably more to do with my psychological make-up than crediting it to me being awesome or something, know what i mean? I believe that some people are pure opportunists, sure. Why are they opportuntists? I dont know, i dont know how their mind works. These people i dont like very much, because they are behaving like vampires sucking the spirit out of any genuine acitivity.
Then i think that the big bulk of players and personalities in question, are people that are sociable and just want to, you know, be where the "stuff" happens. They dont want to be left out of the party. And like you said, if most people were not sociable and did not care what other people thought, we would have all kinds of shit hitting the fans. So cannot criticise people for having another personality then mine, especially when that personaliy is one that is imortant in maintaining our ability to keep it together as a society. I'm a loner. But i'm comfortable with it (to a certain extent). And not everyone is. And they want to feel like their part of the "main event", would be my guess. And good for them (to a certain extent). But i also think there are some pragmatists aswell, that was interested in having an influence on esport developing into a mainstream legitimite activity AND remain something positive. They saw that was going to happen with SC2 and not BW, so they felt compelled to jump ship for that reason too. But probably very few people are like that though, but maybe some of the more well known personalities..
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Hello, Ninazerg. Thanks for your interesting Blog post. I enjoyed reading through it while eating my night time cereal. Your post was very thought provoking.
Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
Probably better Broodwar will never go mainstream though.
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
Who cares? People can do what they want.
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
Very good.
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
It's mostly a waste of time. None of the idiots that post on forums have ever been like, "Oh wow, you're right, I'm an idiot". None of them think they're idiots either, even me. It's very tragic.
Hopefully this spawns some interesting discussion.
God bless and enjoy your weekend. Thanks for reading,
Carnations.
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Hi Nina, thanks for posting I always liked your blogs
Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
eSports going mainstream would make it better, because the exposure would be good overall.
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
Just uncertain about where they want to go.
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
Positive maybe, but as a SC2 player I wouldn't know.
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
Waste of time
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Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
ruin
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
dont care
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
very negative
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
maybe
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On September 30 2017 18:44 Carnations wrote:
It's mostly a waste of time. None of the idiots that post on forums have ever been like, "Oh wow, you're right, I'm an idiot". None of them think they're idiots either, even me. It's very tragic.
I've had instances where I've gone back and said, "You know what? You're right." after an argument.
Also, you don't need to sign your name under your posts, because it says at the top who is posting.
Sincerely,
NinaZerg
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ur the best nina
sincerely,
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Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
It will make it better. mostly because I will have more things to complain about.
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
Brood War players always make the right decisions, no matter what the decision is.
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
Blizzard doesn't do enough to support the community but their involvement has destroyed the game. Blizzard needs to be like Valve and completely take over the scene but also allow the independent community to be in charge.
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
I think I've summed up the discussion perfectly.
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On October 01 2017 02:58 rauk wrote:
ur the best nina
sincerely,
no u
On October 01 2017 03:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Blizzard doesn't do enough to support the community but their involvement has destroyed the game. Blizzard needs to be like Valve and completely take over the scene but also allow the independent community to be in charge.
I find it unlikely that in the near-future that Blizzard will hand anything over to the community. I feel like they've actually done some interestingly good things for the community so far since SC:R, like, they actually are trying to go in the right direction.
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Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
This is my biggest concern. The aspect of BW I enjoy most is the Korean professional scene, and it really feels like a shadow looming over it now with Blizzard moving in. I was so happy and optimistic after the last ASL, and while the current one is still wonderful, I still wish that Blizzard would just stay far far away from professional Korean BW.
The thing to me is that Blizzard as a company is not even remotely the same as the one that made BW (and Diablo 2, WC3 etc). Yes they still have intellectual property rights, but I feel like they shouldn't have the right to change the game and force everyone to adopt their changes. It would be different if they were releasing optional mods or something free of charge, but I really don't like how they're pushing their weight around with the purpose of making a profit off a game that they really own only in name. I am hoping that we don't have a similar playout as the SC2 release.... for that everything was big hype, big money, big talk, and then it all fizzled out and went away. If that is what you mean by "going mainstream" then I really hope BW does not.
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They know not what they are doing, my dear ninazerg.
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On October 01 2017 02:53 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2017 18:44 Carnations wrote:
It's mostly a waste of time. None of the idiots that post on forums have ever been like, "Oh wow, you're right, I'm an idiot". None of them think they're idiots either, even me. It's very tragic.
I've had instances where I've gone back and said, "You know what? You're right." after an argument. Also, you don't need to sign your name under your posts, because it says at the top who is posting. Sincerely, NinaZerg
Thank you for the insightful response. Some people do go back and admit they were wrong or do change their point of view after an argument or discussion online. With that being said, those are not the forum idiots I was writing about. 
I'm sure you've met some people, I'm one of them, that just are unwilling to change their opinion or admit they were wrong. Those people are all too common and impossible to try to argue with.
Although maybe not necessary, I like to sign my name. It's all fun.
Enjoy your day,
Carnations
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Nina always good at writing. Funny blogs are usually just downright funny, and even rant blogs like this keep in enough humor to avoid coming off whiny, and also have enough to be engaging to read.
Not sure how much I really have to add. I mostly just play BW on occasions these days.
Just throwing out random opinions:
-Not really too concerned about an influx of people either way. Don't worry too much about "ESports". Wish we had a more active foreign scene, but KR scene seems good right now. Been saying it for years, but lack of new blood still scares the shit out of me. I'm not sure if these guys will continue to play BW deep into their thirties, and if all good blood leaves at once that could be a deathblow to fan interest and korean scene. I would miss that deeply.
-Could care less about people hopping on or off the bandwagon, I don't really worry about them at my current level of involvement.
-Agree about overbearing organizers. There is a degree of "my money, my tour" but it does occassionally get a little overbearing.
-Blizzard control of the scene, it's not inherently a bad thing, but given Blizzard's track record the past 5-10 years its concerning. Enough so to make me uneasy.
-I've had productive debates. Rarely are they a waste of time, because even if you get absolutely nowhere with someone, if they have strong viewpoints with support you're usually forced to at least reconsider your own views in light of other people's opinions. That's rarely bad.
On September 30 2017 18:44 Carnations wrote:
It's mostly a waste of time. None of the idiots that post on forums have ever been like, "Oh wow, you're right, I'm an idiot". None of them think they're idiots either, even me. It's very tragic.
That's sorta the definition of an idiot though. If you never go back and recognize that some of your posts, statements, or actions were bad your basically delusional/idiot.
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On October 01 2017 13:06 L_Master wrote:
Nina always good at writing. Funny blogs are usually just downright funny, and even rant blogs like this keep in enough humor to avoid coming off whiny, and also have enough to be engaging to read.
Not sure how much I really have to add. I mostly just play BW on occasions these days.
Just throwing out random opinions:
-Not really too concerned about an influx of people either way. Don't worry too much about "ESports". Wish we had a more active foreign scene, but KR scene seems good right now. Been saying it for years, but lack of new blood still scares the shit out of me. I'm not sure if these guys will continue to play BW deep into their thirties, and if all good blood leaves at once that could be a deathblow to fan interest and korean scene. I would miss that deeply.
-Could care less about people hopping on or off the bandwagon, I don't really worry about them at my current level of involvement.
-Agree about overbearing organizers. There is a degree of "my money, my tour" but it does occassionally get a little overbearing.
-Blizzard control of the scene, it's not inherently a bad thing, but given Blizzard's track record the past 5-10 years its concerning. Enough so to make me uneasy.
-I've had productive debates. Rarely are they a waste of time, because even if you get absolutely nowhere with someone, if they have strong viewpoints with support you're usually forced to at least reconsider your own views in light of other people's opinions. That's rarely bad.
You are a rare gem of a human being.
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On October 01 2017 13:06 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2017 18:44 Carnations wrote:
It's mostly a waste of time. None of the idiots that post on forums have ever been like, "Oh wow, you're right, I'm an idiot". None of them think they're idiots either, even me. It's very tragic.
That's sorta the definition of an idiot though. If you never go back and recognize that some of your posts, statements, or actions were bad your basically delusional/idiot.
Hello L_Master,
I completely agree with you! The point was that these type of people are far too common on the internet. It's difficult to have productive arguments - at least in my experience. It's interesting to me that your experience is different. Maybe I'm the idiot? Haha.
Have a great rest of your day,
Carnations
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Croatia9489 Posts
This was a good read and I feel largely the same. Thank you for writing it!
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Something to also think about: If Artosis never left BW he would almost be as good as Avilo is at SC2. Thoughts?
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It was stupid to talk about Donald Trump cuz many ppl love him..
Blizzard will ruin SC:BW and theri other older games like D2 for example...
Yeah those are opportunists who betrayed real SC for a stupid dumb down game liek SC2!!!!
eSport mainstream will ruin soul of eSPort like it ruined "real" sport...
Debates are a waste of time if you dont debate with likeminded ppl cuz with them you can have enjoyable disscusion and with other ppl you wont ever get to an agreement...
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Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
Well I also play mainstream e and non-e Sports and I think it's nice to be able to have more people to play with and talk about a e or non-e Sport and share the experience. Moreover, I expect there to be more proficient players in the scene, as proficient gamers would spend more time getting good at games instead of other games or Chess or Football. The horde of idiots will come, but I think it's natural and acceptable to have them.
In mid 2000s there were the idiots you were talking about, but we also had Proleague, OSL and MSL
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
They gotta do what they gotta do fo dat paper. They aren't idiots,
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
As fan I looked forward to Diablo 3, Hearthstone, SC2, and BWRM and have been disappointed. I played SC2 for a year and Hearthstone for around 2 years and grew tired of them. I was very impressed by Overwatch when it came out and haven't been keeping up but apparently they seem to be doing a bad job at it too?
I feel silly saying that I hope for the best.
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
It varies from person to person, unless you're debating with Canadians.
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On October 01 2017 21:29 rel wrote:
Something to also think about: If Artosis never left BW he would almost be as good as Avilo is at SC2. Thoughts?
I think he would be insulted.
On October 02 2017 02:53 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go? They aren't idiots, They gotta do what they gotta do fo dat paper
I never said they were idiots. I consider an idiot someone who thinks they are right when the facts show that they are wrong, and they refuse to admit it.
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Blizzard needs to fuck off. They've literally made me stop playing my 2nd love in life (my first one was wc3). It's only a matter of time before I succumb to brood war again, while tolerating all the shit blizzard has put in it.
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On October 02 2017 03:04 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 21:29 rel wrote:
Something to also think about: If Artosis never left BW he would almost be as good as Avilo is at SC2. Thoughts? I think he would be insulted. Show nested quote +On October 02 2017 02:53 JieXian wrote:How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go? They aren't idiots, They gotta do what they gotta do fo dat paper I never said they were idiots. I consider an idiot someone who thinks they are right when the facts show that they are wrong, and they refuse to admit it.
Right I have been away for a long time so I don't know what you might be referring to.
The better way for me to express my opinion is with a quote from Mr West:
"Now, I ain't sayin' they a gold digger, But they ain't messin' with no broke eSport"
Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
To add on to this, take my experience with basketball, a "mainstream" sport as an example. It's a nice feeling to be able to walk to any public court any time for a public game and just play and with people who are at your level and interact with them IN FULL SUPER RL HD, without having to travel to another continent.
BTW, The noobs don't enjoy getting trashed by the better players, and the better players don't want to waste their time with noobs.
MMR Matchmaking is achieved naturally without Blizzard intervention.
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Broodwar was clearly doing fine without the interference of blizzard -- I just didn't know about it.
Personally, I left a couple of months after sc2 was released. I also went to sc2, just to see what it was like but I didn't like it. I expected liking the fresh tactical field where no strategy is fixed and everything is still open to discover. I didn't come back cause after sc2, we went to play chess for a couple of years (lichess.org!). Because for sure there will never be a chess 2 that splits the scene and ruins the game with their corporate intentions. And then I kind of forgot about broodwar untill remasterd was announced. That got me back in. I was really liking playing my "1v1 FS!" games on battlenet. Matchmaking is nice, but not a necessity.
OpenBW and ShieldBattery where both great initiatives that take years to mature and I'm affraid the remastered thingy is bad for those initiatives. It's clearly blizzard trying to make money of their product, understandibly. Doesn't their copyright end at some time though?
However, SC:R is here. What we want from blizzard only matters as far as our wallet. I agree that blizzard is the bad guy, but more like the government is the bad guy from a conservative point of view. Little we can do about it, and they're not the worst.
Broodwar will never die.
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When sports go "mainstream" it results in higher quality games and is better for the "pro" players, but you are right that it is worse for the pre-existing fans as the quality of the fandom is diminished overall.
I think World of WarCraft completely changed Blizzard, I have not been a fan of them since then. SC:R seems to be ok because they strictly limited their scope, technical fixes are their strength, design not so much.
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On September 30 2017 16:48 ninazerg wrote:
Discussion Questions:
Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
Entertaining blog post.
Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?
Overall it will make them better. There will be those nasty side-effects of mainstream and money involvement, just like it had when Korea had pro-scene. Side-effects can be different nowadays. Korean progamers were slaves for corporate marketing. They had to act certain way and grind BW like animals because environment and their coaches were bad at their jobs.
Getting game with esports scene a mainstream status makes the playerbase big and competition more entertaining to watch. Downside is you lose the sense of tight-knit community and as asshats flow in, the less you want to interact with the community. I'm nowadays just interested in finding quality games quickly with matchmaking and watching top tier games from streams and VODs, everything else is not important for me.
How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?
Irrelevant question. Playing computer games is not equivalent to monogamous relationships. I've enjoyed plenty of competitive games across many different genres and I don't understand people that stick to one game especially when they are no longer enjoying the game.
What games other people enjoy to play is up to them, you should appreciate the fact that BW/SC:R still draws people back. There's a lot of old good games that are literally dead.
Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?
Positive. So far they've delivered what they promised. SC:R works well with me and it's hassle-free client. I'm sad that 3rd party (SB etc.) got shoved aside like that though. There could've been a lot of improvements to implement from other clients. Good part of that is that now playerbase is in the same place to improve matchmaking.
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
I see them only as a waste of time.
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On October 04 2017 23:13 nukkuj wrote:
How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?
I see them only as a waste of time.
Interesting response, considering that you've disagreed with me on certain things here.
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On October 01 2017 03:15 Jerubaal wrote:
... Blizzard needs to be like Valve and completely take over the scene but also allow the independent community to be in charge. . Bad news valve aside (valve seems to be nothing but bad news), i really must underline:
"..take over" < > "..be in charge"
It is impossible to take over and not be in charge, it is impossible to be in charge if someone else has taken over...
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On topic:
hi nina,
"Do you think eSports going mainstream will ruin eSports or make them better?"
i think it really depends on what you think "mainstream" is? Depending on what you mean the answer is more or less obvious.
If mainstream means "everyone is aware of it" then i guess it will do nothing remarkable for or against, some people might do more for and others more against.. so it is unclear really.
If by mainstream you mean "everyone will be in on it" (everyone will be playing video games competitively) then i guess the answer is no, it will hinder its status more than it will help.
Things should be measured through their success ALSO, but that is just one parameter and not the most important one if you are measuring how "pure/good" esports could be.
Right now, esports is a failing business on the long term and a cash cow on the short term, which makes the whole esports notion look like a joke.
i would argue that business issues trump anything else in esports or in "national/international sports competitions or even in the olympics in the same way. Humans are capable of compromises but that is the best we seem to ever do, nothing pure ever trumps profit margins.
"How do you feel about people leaving Brood War and then coming back? Are they opportunists or just uncertain about where they want to go?"
scbw and sc2 are too much alike to warrant an answer. Wait for the next big rts and we can argue about people going to and fro from that one. Sc2 brings nothing to the table, it is a pale copy of brudwar.
i play sc2 only for the platform and we all know how good that is (insert sarcasm here) 
"Do you see Blizzard's increased influence over Brood War as an overall positive or negative?"
Negative. When someone finds your stuff it also becomes their stuff. Some gal/guy invented the wheel, go ask that gal/guy who invented airplanes if they think they stole the idea... That is what our civilization is like, no going around that.
Again, nothing but business is involved in that "move" from bliss hard.
"How do you feel about disagreements/drama/debates on forums? Have you ever had a productive debate, or is it all a waste of time?"
i like disagreements, i loath forum etiquette, on the whole i think life is to be found on forums (people debating and something "other" coming out of it for all to decipher), whether we see that when it happens or years down the road makes little difference.
glhf
also
![[image loading]](http://homesteadlady.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Immune-Boosting-Hash-browns-with-garlic-and-turmeric-l-Food-as-medicine-l-Homestead-Lady-.com_.jpg)
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On October 06 2017 16:03 fluidrone wrote:
Negative. When someone finds your stuff it also becomes their stuff. Some gal/guy invented the wheel, go ask that gal/guy who invented airplanes if they think they stole the idea... That is what our civilization is like, no going around that.
That 'gal/guy' was Orville and Wilbur Wright.
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i would argue that the first "official" flight makes it just that.. official, nothing more.
but i'm not saying it.
i used gal/guy coz i don't know anything.. right?
or maybe i wrote it because i like to think the idea must have been a girl's idea?
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfjaX_rBgoQmeZgeKk7r6UvaBag9J83X70XnTxpZeU97m0Dxi3)
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EPT
