• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:48
CEST 09:48
KST 16:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview2[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Organizations: Raisi…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1609 users

Played some Tooth and Tail

Blogs > BEARDiaguz
Post a Reply
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
September 24 2017 18:16 GMT
#1
(or, ‘Meat’s back on the menu, boys’)

Year or two ago a mate informed me of an RTS lurking in one of E3’s murkier corners called Tooth and Tail, said it seemed like the sort of thing that’s right up my alley. Discovering they were in an early alpha stage I burst into the developer’s Discord and waved my Starcraft cred about like a lawman’s badge which duly secured access. One swift Steam download later I opened it, curious to discover what rich new ideas so intrigued my associate, trembling with anticipation at the myriad of earthly delights to come. Immediately I was greeted with controller prompts. Oh dear. TnT is an RTS designed to be played on consoles, which feels like designing a casino that goes on the sun. To the developers credit (Pocketwatch games) it’s as solid an attempt can be made, focusing on a minimalist control scheme and fast paced matches lasting about 5 minutes or so. Allow me to describe how simple this all is in one paragraph or less

You control a rodent commander fellow who runs around a simple isometric 2d battlefield. Your HQ/resource centres are called Gristmills and you position farms around them to make money. You spend money on huts that automatically spawn units. One button summons all your dudes to a location, a second button calls only one set of dudes, hold either button down to force move them, tap it to attack-move. If you’re near a particular enemy these buttons allow you to focus that target. You start a game with a loadout of up to 6 different unit huts and defence structures and if your commander dies they quickly respawn at a Gristmill. There’s 24 different types of dude hut/defensive structure all with their strengths and weaknesses so it’s all about trying to pick the right ones and not getting them all killed. That’s it. That’s all Tooth and Tail is.

Now I’m an RTS guy to my core. Cut me and I bleed strategy (in Real Time) which is why a minimalistic approach doesn’t work for me at all. In fact it’s incredibly frustrating. Since I can only control the commander I can’t micro or macro with the sort of precision I’d prefer. Units make themselves and for the most part micro themselves. Jeez, I guess you have to sacrifice an enormous amount of functionality to get an RTS to work for controllers. It’s almost like it’s a fundamentally awful idea. I’m also not a fan of the whole ‘choose your unit loadout before a match’ mechanic, it’s very daunting to choose from the 24 provided which strikes as going completely against the design ethos of simple and accessible.

I suppose I can see the appeal here. For most people playing an RTS is like being forced to juggle dynamite, perhaps scaling back the level of entry is acceptable. And to the games credit the fundamentals of RTS are still there, ie scouting, composition, timing, map awareness, high ground, that sort of thing. But in this pursuit it sacrifices an awful lot of depth, and not just mechanically. I’m incredibly fond of Company of Heroes 1 and 2 and those are games I can play with a mug of tea in one hand. What kills it for me is simply that it’s far too shallow. You just make a bunch of units, run around with minimal effort and somebody wins in a few minutes. I don’t think I can enjoy an RTS where I can’t directly give commands to units and to do that effectively you’re going to need a Mouse and its partner the Keyboard.

I hardly played the game and that was that. Or so I thought. TnT got it’s full release the other day and it was downloadable in my Steam library. I guess I got a release copy for free because I played the alpha and hated it? Humblebrag of the century I know. Guess I’ll explore the single player some, see if I hate that too. Shocking plot twist, I almost liked it!

TnT’s setting is that of a world of adorable anthropomorphised woodland creatures engaged in a hearty civil dispute over who should be turned into liverwurst. It’s a squirrel-eat-falcon world out there, or something. Bizarro-world Redwall, if you will. There’s this juxtaposition of early industrial era optimism with the brutally grim reality of the carnivore land that is the animal kingdom, all viewed through a quasi-Russian lens. No matter how enlightened or developed society gets, it can only function because someone’s eating someone else. The actual story itself isn’t much to talk about, some characters all want to devour each other and rebuild society in their vision (amusingly the educated revolutionary chaps are working to install a capitalist democracy, har har), it’s the backdrop what makes it compelling. I’ll confess I didn’t actually finish it, I got about three quarters through and have packed it in out of the sheer frustration of having to engage in gameplay. Maybe if you beat the final level it sends you a cake? Dunno, don’t care.

Some nice art though.

***
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10412 Posts
September 24 2017 22:52 GMT
#2
I was an alpha tester super early into the game. it was cool but i felt like the map imbalances with it made it unplayable for me where one player would have an easy economy while the other was stuck on one base or something.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
ddengster
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore129 Posts
September 25 2017 06:10 GMT
#3
Anything else you disliked about TnT? Have you played competitive deeply enough to give some conclusions about it?
Check out NEO Impossible Bosses, RTS-MOBA boss rush at http://neoimpossiblebosses.coder-ddeng.com
Immaterial
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada510 Posts
September 26 2017 03:13 GMT
#4
On September 25 2017 07:52 FlaShFTW wrote:
I was an alpha tester super early into the game. it was cool but i felt like the map imbalances with it made it unplayable for me where one player would have an easy economy while the other was stuck on one base or something.


I haven't played the game but I've watched some tournament matches and this is exactly my impression. I don't like the randomly generated maps as it seems the map will strictly favour one player in far too many of the matches. I think it looks fun as an entry level RTS for people who lack the mechanical skill necessary to play Starcraft at a reasonable level, but I don't think I'll buy the game myself. Still, I'm happy to see any RTS succeed at this point even if it is a somewhat neutered version of one.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10412 Posts
September 26 2017 23:38 GMT
#5
On September 26 2017 12:13 Immaterial wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2017 07:52 FlaShFTW wrote:
I was an alpha tester super early into the game. it was cool but i felt like the map imbalances with it made it unplayable for me where one player would have an easy economy while the other was stuck on one base or something.


I haven't played the game but I've watched some tournament matches and this is exactly my impression. I don't like the randomly generated maps as it seems the map will strictly favour one player in far too many of the matches. I think it looks fun as an entry level RTS for people who lack the mechanical skill necessary to play Starcraft at a reasonable level, but I don't think I'll buy the game myself. Still, I'm happy to see any RTS succeed at this point even if it is a somewhat neutered version of one.

im happy for it too and the game was fun. but as someone who came from starcraft, that was one of the first qualms that i had about the game with "map imbalance sucks in this game". Their response was "we wanted to keep the maps fresh and unique so we have RNG maps instead of pre-set maps". That was what really killed the game for me. Obviously, map imbalances create unique strategies that both players need to incorporate to win the game, but when a map is so catered to one side or the other, it's like, ok well I know my opponent literally has one strategy they can possibly use, I just defend that and win the game.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Legionnaire
Profile Joined January 2003
Australia4514 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-27 07:53:43
September 27 2017 07:53 GMT
#6
Thats disappointing to hear. I was planning on playing this after seeing artosis seem to enjoy it.

... but its a strategy game... the better player will always win...

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
My hope is one day stupid people will feel the same pain when they talk, as the pain the rest of us feel when we hear them. Twitter: @Legionnaire_au
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
September 27 2017 14:23 GMT
#7
I like the game, it has a solid foundation with some fresh ideas, but the range of mechanics and actually strategy (especially with the randomized maps) is extremely limited. Rush strategies will instant kill you if you pick the wrong units (lizards are insanely strong compared to any other early game unit if target firing), but I guess its not a huge deal considering average match length. The ability to micro individual units and actually using your mouse for something besides left/right click would help this game tremendously.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10412 Posts
September 28 2017 03:32 GMT
#8
On September 27 2017 16:53 Legionnaire wrote:
Thats disappointing to hear. I was planning on playing this after seeing artosis seem to enjoy it.

... but its a strategy game... the better player will always win...

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

sadly, your picture is literally how i feel on certain maps where it's impossible to grab a 3rd base while your opponent has a free 3rd and a pretty comfortable 4th. and you're sitting there like... welp i need to all in or its game.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 09:56:35
September 28 2017 09:54 GMT
#9
Hey now, wait a second. I see what you did there. Black has so many queens.

On topic: As a more casual player that does not spend 1000h+ in Sc2 I found Tooth and Tail to be a wonderful micro cosmos of an RTS. I finally can talk strategy with others and we can agree on something or test it in a reasonable amount of time, because 90% of the playerbase have near perfect execution. Makes me see how great it must be to play something like Sc2 or BW on this level.
It lacks depth, but for me it was worth the 20 bucks. (I mean, artosis took a game of the #1 player in this game on his second day, while Chip was playing at least since january and has won tournaments(and no, it was not only the random maps fault))
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 09:56:23
September 28 2017 09:56 GMT
#10
double post sry, meant to edit
Voltz_sc21
Profile Joined August 2015
66 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-28 15:19:08
September 28 2017 15:18 GMT
#11
On September 27 2017 16:53 Legionnaire wrote:
Thats disappointing to hear. I was planning on playing this after seeing artosis seem to enjoy it.

... but its a strategy game... the better player will always win...

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Save your money. I spent quite a bit of time playing this game since launch. 59 hours to be exact, and am currently claiming the #7 spot globally. At first, I was addicted. It seemed like strategy was quite important, however as I climbed the ranks and my game knowledge grew, the game became shallow. I began to learn there was only 1 viable strategy at the top level, and that was fox rush. It is a unit with the range of a Tempest, and speed of a hellion. Getting this unit out as fast as possible is all every game was about because once you got it, it gained so much value that it paid for itself in dividends. The game designers are incompetent, it took them months to patch this (apparently this has been the go-to strategy since before the game even launched). A shallow metagame like this that a chimpanzee can execute, no thank you.
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-29 21:13:44
September 29 2017 21:10 GMT
#12
Sad it's not deep (gameplay wise), but come on, the art, the backdrop, the political satire are SO GOOD!


If you want a more (mechanically) Casual RTS, with pixelated graphics (and Soviet undertones), I really recommend trying Command and Conquer 95 ... open-source re-implementation :D (also has Red Alert and Dune 2000)

openra.net



The fun for these, is picking up a new RTS and learning the meta as you go, developing your own strategy, but the mechanical (and player-level) skill-ceilings aren't nearly as high as SC, so you can start winning soon
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JimRising 571
Nina 210
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 160
Leta 130
JulyZerg 86
Aegong 62
HiyA 29
Bale 23
Noble 9
Dota 2
Gorgc997
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv714
Other Games
summit1g11431
WinterStarcraft814
Happy373
Livibee97
NeuroSwarm71
Trikslyr18
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL641
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1281
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
3h 12m
GSL
1d 1h
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 7h
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
2 days
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
4 days
IPSL
4 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.