• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:50
CEST 08:50
KST 15:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL61Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event19Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Korean Starcraft League Week 77 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL ASL20 Preliminary Maps SC uni coach streams logging into betting site BGH Mineral Boosts Tutorial Video
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 547 users

How to rank a Starcraft player?

Blogs > Ej_
Post a Reply
Normal
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
August 10 2017 11:40 GMT
#1
Recently, reading one of Letmelose's blogs, I stumbled upon MyStarcraft, it's an old Korean BW team manager, a progaming team sim if you will.
One of the most interesting things about it, one that Letmelose also used and highlighted, was the way it ranked its players:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/145049-guide-mystarcraft

As you can see, it uses 8 separated critera to judge each player's skill. These are:
Sense, Control, Attack, Harassment, Strategy, Macro, Defense, Scouting
It is very interesting for 2 reasons:
-it's an unusually high number of statistics (old radar charts made by OGN for SC2 usually had 6)
-it divides the skills into decision-making-related and strategic abilities instead of mostly mechanical prowess
Now, both of these can be explained simply by ease of using these statistics in a simulator; certain of these stats are map-dependant and some of them have better matches vs other (attack vs defense, etc.) which creates interesting dynamics between players, making it more into a rock<paper<scissor<rock affair instead of just a Gwent-like game where you have distribute your power players properly.

However, I began to think that this actually might be a better method of judging players' skills than simply ranking their macro, micro, strategy and preperation. How do you rate a player's ability to deal with harassment? Is it multitasking? Then why does Nerchio fall apart to drops versus top Korean Terrans and then whacks down Protoss players with 3-pronged attacks? What about micro then? How does it come that ByuN has excellent target firing, but he can't split his marines for shit?

I thought about these things and came up with this radar chart:
[image loading]
As you can see, it divides the skills involved in a competitive starcraft game into 8 categories:
-micro - player's mechanical prowess in controlling their units
-macro - player's mechnical prowess when it comes to executing their build order, spending money, etc.
-offence - how much damage a player does relative to how few units he uses, the ability to cause damage and chaos
-defence - how well a player can stop any harassment or timings coming their way, the ability to respond to aggression
-tactics - a player's ability to find way for their offence to go through, be it through smart army positioning, approaching enemy's units on the map or well thought out multipronged attacks
-strategy - how well the player choses their build orders, if he keeps up with the metagame, how well they recognize and respond to the opponent's build order and playstyle
-preparation - how well player can come up with new build orders for important matches, change up their playstyle, surprise their opponent
-game sense - the x factor of this chart, the ability to respond to strategies not seen before, make bold calls, read the game at a level beyond the usual metagame and normal strategies. The broader meaning of star sense.

You probably noticed that I used only SC2 players as examples in this blog. That is because I considered SC2 when designing this chart, as it is the Starcraft I have the most competitive experience watching and the one game where I feel people need to obsessively rank players and argue about.
As a closure, I decided to try and draw radar charts in this system for some of the players in last SC2 power rank (which obviously was very very hard as most of the progamers break 40 out of 50 in at least half of the criteria and it takes an expert to judge them precisely):
+ Show Spoiler +

INNOVATION [image loading]
SOLAR [image loading]
STATS [image loading]
ROGUE [image loading]
HERO [image loading]
BYUN [image loading]

I feel like these above were horribly misjudged by myself, but they were only examples and I believe this system has some merit. I think radar charts are a tad more interesting and a billion times more precise than normal power ranks.


****
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15919 Posts
August 10 2017 11:55 GMT
#2
Inno's micro better than ByuN's?
But ByuN is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 10 2017 14:24 GMT
#3
I like the idea but imo you should change the scale of these to make it easier to see differences between players.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
August 10 2017 15:09 GMT
#4
I really disagree with Stats's chart. He's struck me as a master of defending early harassment who is good in late game situations, but with only mediocre adaptability in the face of the unexpected. So I guess that would translate into a better defense and worse game sense.

Either way finding any sort of consensus on a radar chart (even in the case of players who aren't unexpectedly hard to represent by it due to a quirk in one match-up) would be amazing. I'm also not sure how these charts capture player quirks. If a player always drops and never pushes does that mean they have bad tactics/strategy or is it just that only dropping is their 'style'?

I do agree with The_Red_Viper that you should just represent a subsection of the radar chart (like the 30-50 range) to make things more visible. Also adding the numbers would be nice.
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
August 10 2017 20:11 GMT
#5
What about multitasking?
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
August 11 2017 05:41 GMT
#6
Diet, amount of sleep before big competition, ability to handle pressure, etc Such a hard thing to rank all of em!
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
August 11 2017 06:12 GMT
#7
On August 11 2017 14:41 Th1rdEye wrote:
Diet, amount of sleep before big competition, ability to handle pressure, etc Such a hard thing to rank all of em!


A perfect radar chart would have a single axis: "jet-lag resistance".
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10668 Posts
August 11 2017 06:31 GMT
#8
Pretty interesting way to go about it, I like it. Multitasking should also be a trait as well I agree.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6174 Posts
August 11 2017 06:34 GMT
#9
On August 11 2017 05:11 EndingLife wrote:
What about multitasking?

One could estimate the multitasking abilities from the combination of macro and micro in the chart, if they're both at good level I would assume that the players multitasking abilities would be on good level as well.
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-11 06:43:33
August 11 2017 06:42 GMT
#10
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
August 11 2017 07:31 GMT
#11
I explained the thought process behind cutting multitasking as an inefficient metric and replacing it with defence and offence
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
CrymeaTerran
Profile Joined May 2017
149 Posts
August 11 2017 14:03 GMT
#12
This is so nice, we need something like this for televised matches
Sziky = Love
evilEye_
Profile Joined October 2014
United States91 Posts
August 11 2017 19:14 GMT
#13
On August 11 2017 05:11 EndingLife wrote:
What about multitasking?



Huh...? It's sc2 bro..
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
evilEye_
Profile Joined October 2014
United States91 Posts
August 11 2017 19:16 GMT
#14
On August 10 2017 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:
Inno's micro better than ByuN's?
But ByuN is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???



Greatest of all-time would be a BW player obviously....i.e. Flash.

So to correct your statement:

But FlaSh is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???

You're welcome.
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 11 2017 20:04 GMT
#15
On August 12 2017 04:16 evilEye_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2017 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:
Inno's micro better than ByuN's?
But ByuN is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???



Greatest of all-time would be a BW player obviously....i.e. Flash.

So to correct your statement:

But FlaSh is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???

You're welcome.

Flash isn't even the greatest micro player in bw
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
August 11 2017 20:14 GMT
#16
On August 12 2017 04:14 evilEye_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2017 05:11 EndingLife wrote:
What about multitasking?



Huh...? It's sc2 bro..

I'm blind. I thought the title said Starcraft, not SC2. Hehehehe
Poly_Optimize
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada156 Posts
August 11 2017 23:47 GMT
#17
This is a very fun way to rank pro gamers. How do you put a score on each category? Do you use external statistics to analyze the criteria or you simply put a score with your common sense?

Did you used advanced analyzing replay tools/softwares to support your index score?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15919 Posts
August 12 2017 11:17 GMT
#18
On August 12 2017 04:16 evilEye_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2017 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:
Inno's micro better than ByuN's?
But ByuN is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???



Greatest of all-time would be a BW player obviously....i.e. Flash.

So to correct your statement:

But FlaSh is the greatest micro player of all times of all RTS games how can someone be better than him???

You're welcome.

I like how you're so focused on bashing sc2 that you didn't even get the sarcasm
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12790 Posts
August 12 2017 18:50 GMT
#19
How can ByuN micro be so low?
He basically won GSL and Blizzcon off of his micro.
WriterMaru
Bastinian
Profile Joined October 2014
Serbia177 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 22:13:53
August 12 2017 22:12 GMT
#20
How big difference is between strategy and tactics? Also you could make opposite things on chart on cross sides from each other, like offense being on west side of chart and defense being on east side of chart for example.
Tryhard, road to pro-gamer! :) | twitter.com/bastiniansc2 | twitch.tv/bastinian |
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
August 13 2017 07:41 GMT
#21
On August 12 2017 08:47 Poly_Optimize wrote:
Did you used advanced analyzing replay tools/softwares to support your index score?

Guesstimation, I don't think any computer program will ever be able to read Starcraft well enough to do it. I believe OGN used expert panels/casters opinion.
On August 13 2017 07:12 Bastinian wrote:
How big difference is between strategy and tactics? Also you could make opposite things on chart on cross sides from each other, like offense being on west side of chart and defense being on east side of chart for example.

On August 10 2017 20:40 Ej_ wrote:
-tactics - a player's ability to find way for their offence to go through, be it through smart army positioning, approaching enemy's units on the map or well thought out multipronged attacks
-strategy - how well the player choses their build orders, if he keeps up with the metagame, how well they recognize and respond to the opponent's build order and playstyle
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 604
Larva 206
Barracks 50
LuMiX 2
Dota 2
XaKoH 586
League of Legends
JimRising 729
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1224
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor202
Other Games
summit1g8804
WinterStarcraft636
SortOf105
kaitlyn69
ProTech49
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH344
• Hupsaiya 104
• Sammyuel 42
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2152
League of Legends
• Lourlo1318
• masondota2797
• Stunt475
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 11m
Clem vs Classic
SHIN vs Cure
FEL
5h 11m
WardiTV European League
5h 11m
BSL: ProLeague
11h 11m
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.