• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:33
CEST 21:33
KST 04:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles2[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 640 users

Berkeley Overmind 2.0: bots have gone full circle

Blogs > LetaBot
Post a Reply
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 25 2017 23:24 GMT
#1
StarCraft bot strategies over time

Today's blog about StarCraft bots is inspired by the mini bot tournaments hosted by the Student StarCraft AI tournament. Specifically the match between "5 pool" and iron bot:

(at the 41:36 time mark if autoplay doesn't work)




That match reminded me of the finals of the first StarCraft AI tournament between Krasi0 and the berkeley overmind:




Although you can probably see a lot of similarities (mutalisk micro, mech terran TvZ), there are also some difference (early aggressive opening from zerg, more defensive terran)

In general, this blog post is going to be about a short recap of the strategy Meta of Brood War bots. This change will hopefully explain how the similarities and difference of 2010 vs 2017 bots came to be.

Pre-StarCraft, the ORTS days

Before the BWAPI, there was research done in RTS AI using an open source RTS games called ORTS.

Even back then, general concepts like hit&run and resource management were already part of the top bots:




2010

The start of the StarCraft bots was a bit of a wild west as you can expect.

Each bot had a short description:
http://web.archive.org/web/20141122235145/http://eis.ucsc.edu:80/StarCraftParticipants
https://web.archive.org/web/20130804171747/http://eis.ucsc.edu/Tournament4Results

The Berkeley overmind starts out with what looks like a 13 pool muta variant with early zergling pressure.
Even back then, krasi0 bot was capable of holding off these kinds of early attacks.
But the mutalisk micro was too much, even with the repair micro.

Out of all the participants of 2010, only krais0bot is still in active development in 2017.
Dave Churchill still runs UAlbertaBot in the tournaments.
BTHAI and Skynet also still participate in the tournaments.


2011



After the success of the Berkeley Overmind, most bots focused on a strategy that would defeat the Berkeley Overmind.
This kind of pattern, of coming up with a way to defeat the top bot is something you will see repeated often.

Two new tournaments (CIG and SSCAI) started this year as well. With the SSCAI more focused on student (after 2011, non-student could participate but were not eligible for prizes)

The AIIDE and CIG both saw Skynet and UAlbertabot on the 1st and 2nd place respectively.
Both were protoss bots that participated in the 2010 tournament as well (UAlbertabot as a Zerg in 2010 ).

UAlbertaBot used build order optimization to perform a zealot rush as fast as possible, and transition in case it didn't work.

Andrew Smith (Skynet bot) had its own terrain analysis instead of using the BWTA toolkit.
It also used Cartesian geometry calculations to perform the dragoon micro.
This gave it an edge over UAlbetabot, who at the time didn't have good micro.

The SSCAI was for students only back then, the finals was a ZvZ between a mass ling bot and a bot that build sunkens to safely tech to mutalisks

2012



It was still the battle of the protoss bots in AIIDE and CIG.
Skynet still remained dominant, but AIUR gained more dominance this year.
AIUR has different kinds of moods (build orders + strategy). Back in 2012 when there was no file I/O it simply picked one of the options at random.

The framework for AIUR was used in IceBot who won the SSCAI 2012.
IceBot was up against a zerg rush bot (a common theme in the SSCAI)

2013



In 2013, the tournament manager was capable of handling file I/O for bots, so learning now became a thing in the AIIDE (the CIG had some problems getting it running and used the old tournament manager)

More info on the learning of the bots can be found here:

http://www.cs.mun.ca/~dchurchill/starcraftaicomp/report2013.shtml

The new combat simulator SparCraft, combined with the hardcoding in UAlbertaBot to do a DT rush vs Skynet, caused UAlbertabot to gain the throne.
With skynet now in 2nd place and AIUR in 3rd.

In the CIG, where the file I/O wasn't available yet, Skynet still remained on top with its Dragoon micro, with UAlbertabot in 2nd place (mainly caused by losing vs a certain bot that skynet was able to defeat easily).


In the SSCAI 2013 though, UAlberta only got 3rd place in the student division, and lost vs IceBot.
It seems that UAlbertabot was mainly good vs other protoss bots.
IceBot got to the finals of the SSCAI 2013, but was defeated by Krasi0.
It was here that you already saw tank lines form in TvT




Another bot of note was Ximp, whose was very good but crashed on certain maps and used too much CPU time (A problem which plagued Killerbot as well)


2014



2014 is where my bot (LetaBot) comes in.
StarCraft AI got more popular this year based on the total number of bots submitted.
The dominance of the protoss comes to an end this year.
In professional Brood War, there is the concept of the Six Dragons


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Six_Dragons

It was a period in time where protoss players were dominant. The same can be said about 2011-2013.
In StarCraft AI, there were 3 protoss bot dragons:
- UAlbertaBot
- Skynet
- AIUR

However, the Terran bots adapted. Ximp also had its bugs fixed.

Back then, there were two main ways to dethrone these protoss dragons.
The first idea would be to build a bot that can withstand all kinds of rush builds, while building up for a solid push.

This is the idea that both IceBot and Ximp used.
Both were metaphorically forged in the rush pit of the SSCAI, which consisted of a lot of rush bots (mostly zerg rush)
They focused on building bunkers or cannons to hold off any rush and building a massive Tank or Carrier push.


The second idea would be to create a rush bot that would be able to perform a rush like no other bot has done before.
That is the approach I took.
With the new mineral gathering algorithm that I created, my bot could perform a rush faster than any other bot:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/484849-improving-mineral-gathering-rate-in-brood-war


Unfortunately, I messed up the learning algorithm, causing my bot to only stick to a bunker rush.
It was still enough to defeat all other bots that weren't that good at holding such a rush.

With Icelab able to attack before Ximp got enough carriers, it got 1st place.
Ximp got 2nd place, and LetaBot got 3d (AIIDE and CIG)

The SSCAI 2014 is when things got more interesting.

Just like Ximp, my bot played significantly better once the bugs were removed.
Since most rush bots on the SSCAI were zerg rush bots, most bot weren't quite capable of dealing with a Terran rush bot,
let alone one that was capable of many different kinds of rush builds.

LetaBot easily got 1st place in the student division, and got to the finals in the mixed division without any trouble.

The finals was vs the Carrier bot Ximp. To make things interesting, we were both allowed to change our bot before the final match (no longer a thing in SSCAI after 2014)
Ximp of course worked on the rush that defeated it.
But it probably didn't know that LetaBot was already capable of much more than a simple rush.

Anticipating a counter-rush, I enabled the wall building that I was working on and set my bot to go for the strategy that IceBot used vs Ximp (early Tank attack).
Essentially by then, LetaBot was already capable of both types of strategies used to dethrone the top bots from 2013.

Combining the two, it managed to defeat Ximp. Only losing 1 game because the wall algorithm wasn't finished yet, causing the barracks to not lift in 1 game.

VODs can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS6Qj916df6KECJQRcmsvNMPa_tvCpn4h


2015

(this video is recorded very softly, so you will have to run up the volume. Don't forget to turn it down afterwards)


From 2011-2014 it was very rare to see a Zerg bot participating.
Most of the zerg bots in SSCAI were zergling rush bots.
The top zerg bot (KillerBot, probably named after the pro-gamer "Killer") was a Lurker bot that was very good, but crashed a lot (another pattern that repeats itself in these years).

This all changed in 2015, where 3 zerg bots took the 3 top spots in the AIIDE and CIG:

- TscmooZ (1st place AIIDE, 2nd CIG): A zerg bot that uses dark swarm and army formation
- ZZZKBot (2nd place AIIDE, 1st CIG): The most sophisticated 4 pool bot.
- OverKill (3rd place both): A mutalisk harass bot

A detailed report on the 2015 competition can be found here:

http://www.cs.mun.ca/~dchurchill/starcraftaicomp/report2015.shtml


The general trend of rush or macro continued, with ZZKBot and OverKill following the rush style.
The first major tournament of 2015 was the CIG tournament. There, the 4 pool bot ZZZKBot caught everyone by surprise.
Just like LetaBot in 2014, ZZZKbot perfected a rush to such an extend that the anti-rush defence of most bots wasn't adequate.

In general, most bots couldn't deal with the new Zerg bots.
The only major zerg opponent back in 2014 was the Berkeley overmid, which only participated in 2010.
Being closed source, no forks were made.

CIG and AIIDE 2015 were the last times that my bot predominantly used a rush strategy.
In CIG it finished at the 4th place, just below the 3 new zerg bots.
By the time of the AIIDE, other bots have caught up to rush strategies, causing LetaBot to drop to 10th place.
Most bots still had some problem with 4 pool though.
They were only able to defeat ZZKbot on a 3/4 player map when wrong scouting caused a delay in the zerg rush.

By the time SSCAI 2015 came around, Marian Devecka fixed the bugs in Killerbot, making it the strongest bot on SSCAI.
Other strong bots (newcomers or new updated) were:

- Stone: a SCV rush bot
- Garmbot: a bot somewhat reminiscent of the Mass expand bot from AIIDE 2010. Can rebuild its production if the main base is lost
- tscmooP: Protoss version of the tscmooZ


By this time, rush bots were already phasing out. Even a sophisticated 4 pool bot will get countered.
But ZZKBot got changed as well, and thus still remained strong (it had some more build orders than 4 pool in SSCAI 2015 IIRC)

My bot managed to defeat ZZKbot on 3/4 player maps, but unfortunately during the tournament it played twice on 2-player maps and was thus eliminated.
KillerBot struggled a bit as well, but only lost one game to ZZKbot, thus getting into the finals.

The SCV rush bot Stone caught other bots off guard as well, even defeating the robust UAlbertaBot.
But just like Killerbot, Ximp was used to rush bots as well and was thus able to hold off Stone (only losing 1 game).

Thus the finals was between two macro bots. KillerBot went for mass hydras which countered the mass carriers from Ximp.
In the bronze match, it was the 4 pool rush bot vs the SCV rush bot. An easy win for the SCV rush bot

2016

2015 was the last time that a pure (1 base) rush bot managed to win a major tournament.
ZZKBot adapted by adding in more build orders, keeping the 4 pool in case of certain maps/opponents.

There were a lot of viewers for the SSCAI 2015 tournament.
Several games news outlets wrote about it. I did an interview with "Philippa Warr" about my bot.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/15/student-starcraft-ai-tournament/
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/01/28/starcraft-ai-bots/#more-343753


The press coverage from these sites brought in many more people interested in RTS AI.
2016 was also the start of the blog of "Jay Scott". Currently author of SteamHammer.
http://satirist.org/ai/starcraft/blog

The biggest newcomers were:

- Iron bot: succeror to "Stone". Just like Andrew Smit (Skynet) it uses its own terrain analysis
- tscmooT: Terran version of the tscmoo bot. It could now play all 3 races
- MegaBot: A bot that mixed several protoss bots into 1 bot. Using machine learning to select which bot to use.

Unfortunately for megabot it also copied all the bugs in the protoss bots. Causing it to crash a lot.

CIG results:

https://sites.google.com/site/starcraftaic/result
Detailed finals: https://cilab.sejong.ac.kr/sc_competition2016/posting_data/final_stage/html/index.html
Results discussion on Jay Scott's blog: http://satirist.org/ai/starcraft/blog

In 2015, the top 3 bots were all zerg, now it is all terran. Protoss is no longer dominant at all.
This is also the first time that a random bot entered the tournament (UAlbertabot).

As can be seen from the detailed results, ZZKbot's new build orders helped it stay relevant.

In terms of TvT, the strategy of all top 3 bots was to set up a contain on the enemy base as fast as possible.
This aggressive style was reliant on things like mine placement, explaining the average 55% winrate of LetaBot over the other 2 bots


AIIDE:

https://www.cs.mun.ca/~dchurchill/starcraftaicomp/2016/
discussion on Jay Scott's blog: http://satirist.org/ai/starcraft/blog/archives/128-AIIDE-2016-results-discussion.html


main changes compared to CIG:

- UAlbertabot expanded the rush builds.
- More updates to ZZKbot
- Better TvT from Iron Bot

The time between CIG and AIIDE saw major changes to Iron Bot and ZZKBot.
Irob bot got a better TvT strategy, causing it to win to LetaBot.
However it could not deal with the new aggressive style of ZZKBOT.
Most other bots got close to 50% winrate with ZZKBot though.
The steady improvement of early aggressive defence caused the all-in style to lose its effectiveness.


SSCAI:


http://www.sscaitournament.com/index.php?action=2016


The latest major AI tournament as of right now.

Noticeable newcomers:

- SteamHammer: A zerg bot based on Ualbertabot. Made by the author of the StarCraft AI blog ( http://satirist.org/ai/starcraft/blog/ )
- Bereaver: Protoss bot with a good reaver drop micro
- Zia Bot: zerg bot that uses learning to determine build order.


This tournament saw the power of build orders in play.
- LetaBot added some of the Build Orders text mined from Liquidpedia (done by Demmis Soemers)
- tscmoo uses neural networks to create new build orders for its protoss bot
- Bereaver gets its strategies form a .json file
- Krasi0 already had different build orders implemented. These have been optimized more (better rush defence)
- Zia bot uses ML as mentioned above


In this tournament, it became clear that 1 base all-in rush build were simply not enough anymore.
Only against certain bots would such a strategy work.
Ironically the top bot Iron Bot, who started out as a SCV rush bot, was itself susceptible to a SCV rush.
So was the top contender to the throne Krasi0.
Although I have no regrets abusing this with LetaBot, I promised the authors that the newest versions of LetaBot won't use these cheese strategies anymore.


Anyway, the bot that everyone was rooting for was Bereaver. A bot that got to the top of the ladder shortly before the tournament.It's reaver drop is something to behold. In the round robin, it got 2nd place.
Another interesting match was krasi0 vs Iron bot, where the classical tank lines were used.
It usually resulted in 1 bot getting a contain, but the other bot breaking that contain and winning.
The cross table can be found here: https://purplepie.bitbucket.io/sscait.html

With the added rush defence in LetaBot, it never lost twice against a bot.
The performance of LetaBot is still map dependent, causing it some loses that were avoidable (it still uses the old BWTA)


Despite good results in PvT, bereaver wasn't as good in PvP, causing it to lose vs Ximp.
Ximp itself was still too reliant in Carriers, causing it to be countered by mass goliath this time.
As mentioned before, my bot abused a weakness of Iron bot and krasi0.
If it wasn't for that, my bot would do its contain strategy from the CIG/AIIDE with some adjustment.
Although effective, it would have been a much closer call as to who was going to win if that was used vs Iron bot and krasi0.
Regardless though, it would have most likely been 3 terran bots on top either way.


(early) 2017

As is usually the case, more bots were submitted after the tournament.
Especially now that there would be a bot API for StarCraft 2 soon as well (currently scheduled to be released in the summer).


Shortly after the tournament, I predicted that the all-in bots would no longer be at the top 3 of any major StarCraft AI tournament.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/518683-the-end-of-rushbots-in-starcraft-ai-tournaments


The top 3 bots in the SSCAI tournaments were all mainly macro bots (with my bot only using rush builds vs certain opponents).
As expected, the bot developers adopted.
Now, the bots that want to use such a strategy go for early aggressiveness to keep the opponent on 1 base as long as possible.
All the while expanding and teching up to a tier 2 unit to be used as a massive push.

So here we come back to the berkeley overmind and the new "5 pool" bot.

As mentioned before, the berkeley overmind also build early lings to help defend against a rush build, and put pressure on the opponent otherwise.
However, the berkeley overmind then went into building sunkens to safely get to mutalisks.
After that it only used mutalisks. Not really building any other combat unit.

The bot named "5 pool" on the other hand ,can transition into different build orders and unit compositions if its initially strategy doesn't work.
By the looks of it, it tries a certain aggressive style, then switches if that style doesn't work.
The best example of this would be "5 pool" vs krasi0:
http://www.sscaitournament.com/Replays/5 POOL/194320-5 Po_kras-ZvT.rep
(you can watch it online on http://www.openbw.com/replay-viewer/ , since BW is free you can get the files needed easily).

As expected from the bot that faced the berkeley overmind, Krasi0 can deal with anything that "5 pool" trows at it.
Iron bot on the other hand usually loses against this style of play.
The LetaBot version currently on SSCAI doesn't have the full build order set from liquidpedia, and can thus also not deal with it yet.

Watching that replay and the match of krasi0 vs berkeley overmind, you can clearly see the differences. Bots nowadays tend to be better at both putting on pressure and defending against such pressure. Switching strategies mid-game has also become commonplace compared to 2010 where krasi0 and the berkeley overmind stick to a certain plan the entire game.

conclusions


As you might have noticed, there are some general themes here.
The most important is of course bug fixes

Then there is also the obvious case of bots not being able to handle new situations that well.
In a sense the micro simulators of bots like the UAlbertabot could deal with them, but you need the appropriate micromanagement as well.
Right now, most bots handle this by either going for a generic build that can handle most cases,
or using machine learning to adapt their build order.
The more successful bots do a mix of both, where they pick a safe build order and deviate based on scouting.


This of course was always a thing in RTS AI, but the difference between then and now is that there are more replays available of the unusual playstyle.
There are also a lot of bots outs there that you can use to see if your bot can hold a rush build.

Another common theme is building a bot specifically to take down a top bot. In SSCAI 2016, Beebot (15th place) managed to consistently defeat Iron bot (5th place)
In professional Brood War, this concept is known as (Wiki)sniping.
It is things like these that will force top bots to be more robust.

This leads to the overall theme. Each year the bots get better.
If you put top bots from a certain year against top bots from a year before, you will see how the playstyle has improved.
There is of course still a way to go before these bots can beat Flash,Bisu,Jaedong etc. but with enough active development most people reading this blog post will eventually no longer be able to defeat the top bots.
Just don't expect it to happen this year though



What the future hold


For now the AIIDE,CIG and SSCAI are still using Brood War.
The AIIDE and CIG are too close to the release date of the StarCraft 2 bot API to host a StarCraft 2 AI tournament as well, but the SSCAI will consider it.
Since some bot developers are using the BWAPI in anticipation of the SC2 API, you can expect bots with more generic algorithms.

I myself have been working on using MCTS for micro-management.
Making sure that it can be reused not just for StarCraft 2, but any RTS game like it.

Another interesting approach is the one that "imp42" is using. You can read more about that on his TL blog:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/imp42


Also keep an eye out for Tscmoo,Iron bot,krasi0,SteamHammer and "5 pool bot".
You can find most of these bots playing on twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/sscait


The VODs of the SSCAI tournaments can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/certicky/playlists


And of course you can ask your questions below.

*****
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 25 2017 23:26 GMT
#2
Terran bots will still be dominant in 2017 though
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Othryoneus
Profile Joined April 2017
9 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-27 12:45:17
April 27 2017 12:14 GMT
#3
I played against Iron Bot. I didn't play for a long long time. And bots got a lot better. It is controlling like 20 vultures and 15 wraiths independently, constantly looking for units it can pick off, somewhere. Anything not on hold position would be drawn out and killed. Anything not under turret/goliath cover, it's wraiths would kill.

Somehow I was able to outmicro it in vulture vs vulture when it went 2 fact vulture and I went 1 fact FE.

In playing vs humans, you know at times that you are safe, you can ease down and ignore certain things. So after I won the vulture battle, I just naturally ignored my units for a whole, since I knew I ought to be safe and the other person would not be in the mindset to pressure. That is apparently what I naturally do, unaware, but the bot doesn't care. It has no emotion or mindset.

It still didn't completely anticipate many things, but made up for it in that manner. It almost contained me at my natural. I broke that. But it still had more units and outexpanded me. Then I got stuck on depots, it somehow lured away my goliaths off to the side when I was 1a2a3a into it's tanks, and somehow all my goliaths died in minefields while my tanks were now getting killed by wraiths, even though they won the initial battle.

I left the game at that point, as I didn't see how I would win and it ought to have taken the entire map by then. (it didn't, but it could and should have).

I remember a person saying not too long ago that no way ever a SC AI would beat a top player, as only top players have supernatural souls. I think people misunderstand completely the phase space in which AI can operate, where humans cannot. We know that multitasking is oh so important in SC. And a computer has almost infinite attention. And I doubt that current bots use much computational time. Imagine if you actually exhaust a big cluster of computation into deciding if a battle is worth the engage.

When I stopped playing I could beat bots with one hand because it was just like the default AI, but with more sensible BOs and at least some micro.

[edit]

Ok, it does die pretty easily to my PvT dragoon pressure vs it's wall-in. At least I can sleep at night. It tries to make a vulture first, but I zoned that one out while the double machine shop tanks somehow weren't able to prevent me from breaking down the depot of the wall.
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
April 27 2017 14:45 GMT
#4
Thanks LetaBot for your hard work
I hope one day for bots to be so good, they push up the skill ceiling of competitive BW. I've always loved crazy micro, but those are almost always impossible because they're too mechanically difficult to execute. When it's automated, hopefully we can see crazier things :D

I'm a HUGE fan of Tscmoo's lockdowns and nukes, and mind controls. Hopefully we'll get Broodlings, Parasite, Burrow, Blind, Feedback and even mid-battle drop-micro (not just with tanks, but zealots or zerg units).
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 27 2017 15:01 GMT
#5
On April 27 2017 23:45 bITt.mAN wrote:
Thanks LetaBot for your hard work
I hope one day for bots to be so good, they push up the skill ceiling of competitive BW. I've always loved crazy micro, but those are almost always impossible because they're too mechanically difficult to execute. When it's automated, hopefully we can see crazier things :D

I'm a HUGE fan of Tscmoo's lockdowns and nukes, and mind controls. Hopefully we'll get Broodlings, Parasite, Burrow, Blind, Feedback and even mid-battle drop-micro (not just with tanks, but zealots or zerg units).


Most of these things are already used by some bots:

- The Lermant bot already uses burrow on its drones to save them.
- tscmooZ uses Broodlings IIRC
- tscmooP uses feedback
- zealot drop on sieges tanks is already used. Not sure what the name was of that protoss bot
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
April 28 2017 02:53 GMT
#6
Where/how can you personally play these bots?

Also, thanks for the write up, a fun read!
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 28 2017 03:37 GMT
#7
On April 28 2017 11:53 L_Master wrote:
Where/how can you personally play these bots?

Also, thanks for the write up, a fun read!


There is a tutorial here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/508249-how-to-play-vs-bwapi-bots


Currently only available for 1.16 , so point the chaoslauncher to a separate 1.16 version.

If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
April 28 2017 12:57 GMT
#8
Thanks a lot for this long and very detailed writeup. It was worth the read !

Has the BW bot scene had any news from the "big players" such as Facebook or Google (deepmind) ?
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 28 2017 13:17 GMT
#9
On April 28 2017 21:57 LoneYoShi wrote:
Thanks a lot for this long and very detailed writeup. It was worth the read !

Has the BW bot scene had any news from the "big players" such as Facebook or Google (deepmind) ?



Yea, FaceBook created the TorchCraft extensions for Machine Learning in Brood War.

Deepmind is only focused on SC2.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
April 28 2017 14:15 GMT
#10
On April 28 2017 22:17 LetaBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2017 21:57 LoneYoShi wrote:
Thanks a lot for this long and very detailed writeup. It was worth the read !

Has the BW bot scene had any news from the "big players" such as Facebook or Google (deepmind) ?



Yea, FaceBook created the TorchCraft extensions for Machine Learning in Brood War.

Deepmind is only focused on SC2.


But do they have produced a bot already ?
I know Facebook published a paper on a Machine Learning algorithm that "learned" micromanagement techniques, but do we have news of any other of their accomplishment, a full bot, something ?
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
April 28 2017 14:43 GMT
#11
On April 28 2017 23:15 LoneYoShi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2017 22:17 LetaBot wrote:
On April 28 2017 21:57 LoneYoShi wrote:
Thanks a lot for this long and very detailed writeup. It was worth the read !

Has the BW bot scene had any news from the "big players" such as Facebook or Google (deepmind) ?



Yea, FaceBook created the TorchCraft extensions for Machine Learning in Brood War.

Deepmind is only focused on SC2.


But do they have produced a bot already ?
I know Facebook published a paper on a Machine Learning algorithm that "learned" micromanagement techniques, but do we have news of any other of their accomplishment, a full bot, something ?



One of the team members made a Brood War bot back in 2012 ( BroodWarBotQ from Gabriel Synnaeve ) . Doesn't look like they added the new micromanagement to that.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10669 Posts
April 28 2017 16:12 GMT
#12
Amazing work and awesome read, was really interesting to see how much bots have progressed over the years, this is utterly mind blowing to someone who has played SC since release. Keep up the good work!
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
nepeta
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1872 Posts
April 28 2017 18:22 GMT
#13
Nice piece of writing LetaBot
Broodwar AI :) http://sscaitournament.com http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
April 29 2017 15:04 GMT
#14
Really great blog. Makes me want to give it a try even though I'm a programming neophyte, just looks really fun.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:00
Rotti Stream Rumble 4k Edition
RotterdaM895
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 895
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1105
firebathero 210
Bonyth 102
sas.Sziky 59
Rock 9
Stormgate
NightEnD1
Dota 2
qojqva2534
Pyrionflax111
League of Legends
Grubby3938
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1578
fl0m1562
ScreaM1537
shoxiejesuss785
flusha372
oskar188
sgares144
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu257
Other Games
summit1g2115
B2W.Neo993
ceh9692
KnowMe192
mouzStarbuck176
ToD141
Hui .135
Mew2King131
Trikslyr64
ZombieGrub52
Sick43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick51036
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 283
• LUISG 26
• davetesta10
• OhrlRock 7
• Reevou 5
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 15
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2638
League of Legends
• Jankos2249
• TFBlade1309
Other Games
• imaqtpie1919
• Shiphtur529
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 27m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 27m
WardiTV European League
20h 27m
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 4h
The PondCast
1d 14h
WardiTV European League
1d 16h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.