• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:42
CEST 01:42
KST 08:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League32Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.163Rollback Netcode in Brood War1295.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more sc2 streamers on team liquid? Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War Hands of Pluto Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10362 users

The end of rushbots in StarCraft AI tournaments

Blogs > LetaBot
Post a Reply
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-27 17:54:37
January 27 2017 00:37 GMT
#1
The end of rushbots in StarCraft AI tournaments, and how to defeat them

This blog was first posted to Jay Scotts blog on StarCraft AI: http://satirist.org/ai/starcraft/blog/archives/203-the-end-of-the-rushbots-rushes-and-how-to-defeat-them.html

Rush bots in StarCraft AI tournaments are known as bots that only know how to perform a rush strategy. My StarCraft bot started out as one, but over time it got more and more focus on macro build orders. In the latest AI tournament (SSCAI 2016) my bot went for a rush strategy against certain opponents, but that is going to change.

This Saturday (28 January) will be the last time that my bot will go for a rush strategy. The reason for this is simple, rush strategies will stop working against almost all the top bots. Already most top bots can hold just about anything you can throw at them off 1 base. There are a few holes in their play that I managed to exploit this SSCAI, but after those are patched, any bot will be forced to expand in order to win a game versus a top bot. In the case of my own bot: even with the suboptimal building placement, it can already hold zergling rushes more than 50% of the time. With that improved, Zerg bots will (almost) always lose if they open spawning pool first.

The only use that rush strategies would have after that would be to defeat a bot that rushes to a resource depot (14 CC, 14 Nexus and 3 hatch before pool come to mind). But you can play slightly from behind and still win with better tactics. So I prefer to go that route.

Anyway, here are the rush builds that are still effective, along with some information as to how to stop them

Worker rush

Bots that used it: Stone (predecessor to Iron bot), LetaBot. Any bot that lets its scouting unit attack the enemy workers.

The earliest rush you can do. You take your worker units and let them attack the enemy base. In the early stages of Brood War AI competitions, it sometimes happened that the scouting worker would attack the workers at the mineral line. Since some bots didn’t have any worker defence code, the scouting worker unit would simply destroy the entire work force of the opponent.

After a while, most bots would pull a worker off the mineral line and send it to attack the scouting worker. The problem with that solution was that the opponent could send more than just the scouting worker to attack the opponent.

An example of this happening in a human vs human game is Idra vs AllAboutYou:



The first bot to specialize in the worker rush was Stone by Igor Dimitrijevic. Besides the usually attack move and retreat to repair that LetaBot was capable of before in its worker rush, Stone also prioritized SCVs that were building buildings. It got 3rd place in the SSCAI 2015. However it did get defeated by LetaBot (who had a worker rush strategy in it since its very first tournament in CIG 2014):



The first bot to specialize in the worker rush was Stone by Igor Dimitrijevic. Besides the usual attack move and retreat to repair that LetaBot was capable of before in its worker rush, Stone also prioritized SCVs that were building buildings. It got 3rd place in the SSCAI 2015. However it did get defeated by LetaBot (who had a worker rush strategy in it since its very first tournament in CIG 2014).

In 2016, LetaBot used the same strategy to defeat several bots (BeeBot, XelnagaII, Iron Bot, Krasi0). Krasi0 has already improved its worker defence in its latest version (but since uploading is disabled while the SSCAI tournament is running, his tournament version is still vulnerable to it).

There are many ways to stop it. The main key is to keep on building worker units no matter what. After all, with this your production of worker units will be at the same rate as your opponent, ensuring that you will always have numerical superiority with which you should be able to hold easily. Don’t rush for a tier 1 combat unit, that only plays into the hand of the one that worker rushes you.

Terran: Watch the LetaBot vs Stone video above. You simply pull back workers that are on low hp. Just follow the regular build order (9 supply, 11 barracks) and pump marines. You will hold it easily

Protoss: Just like terran, pull back worker units that are damaged. Build a pylon when you have 100 minerals, and a gateway when you have 150. You should have a zealot out before the opponent has a critical mass of worker units.

Zerg: Go for a spawning pool when you have 200 minerals, and build a zergling when you have 50 minerals. If you went for a 4 pool, cancel the pool and build 3 worker units immediately.

Bunker Rush:

Bots that used this strategy: LetaBot

The favorite strategy of boxer:



LetaBot is known for doing this rush back in 2014. But in the case of LetaBot, it was the proxy 5 rax variant instead of the usual marine rush:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy_5_Rax



to stop it, you shouldn't go for a fast expansions, since the bunker rush hard counters such a build order. Pull workers to destroy the enemy bunker. More specifically

Terran: Pull SCVs to destroy the enemy bunker and get a bunker of your own on your ramp
Protoss: Photon cannons out-range bunkers, so get them up asap in case the opponent managed to finish its bunkers. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bunker_Rush_(vs._Protoss)#Countered_By
Zerg: (Wiki)Zerg Counter to Bunker Rush


Barrack Barracks Supply (BBS)

Also known as a marine rush.

Bots that used this strategy: LetaBot, Tyr

Example, LetaBot vs IceBot in SSCAI 2014:



Liquidpedia has more information on this one:

(Wiki)Barracks Barracks Supply

How to counter it:
Terran: Pull SCVs to force the marines back and build a bunker on the ramp. (Wiki)Terran Counter to Barracks Barracks Supply

Protoss: (Wiki) Protoss Counter to Barracks Barracks Supply

Zerg: (Wiki)Zerg Counter to BBS


4 pool

Bots that use it: ZZZKbot , way too many other ones to list here

A popular strategy where you try to get zerglings as fast as possible. Could be considered the "Hello World" of Brood War Bot programming.

Example, Iron bot vs ZZZKbot in the SSCAI 2016:



counters:

Terran: (Wiki)Terran Counter to 4 Pool

Protoss: Either 2 gate zealot, or Forge Fast Expand with 2 cannons and probes to block the opening.

Zerg: Open with 9 pool and build a sunken colony if needed.

Cannon rush

Bots that use this: Aiur, Jakub Trancik

Example game AIUR vs Bakuryu (human player):



How to stop:

Terran: Make sure to chase the scouting probe to catch any pylon build in the main base. If outside the main base, build a wall and repair it till tanks with siege mode are out.

Protoss: go for a zealot rush

Zerg: Go for a spawning pool. Then sunken colony or mass zerglings.


Zealot rush

Bots that use it: WuliBot, Dave Churchill, several other protoss bots

Example game: LetaBot vs WuliBot (Ro8 game 2 SSCAI 2016 )

https://youtu.be/uJfc1a_PGss?t=2m46s

counters:

Terran: (Wiki)Terran Counter to Early Protoss Pressure

Protoss: (Wiki)3 Gate Speedzeal (vs. Protoss)

Zerg: An overpool is a safe zerg build vs protoss ( (Wiki)Overpool (vs. Protoss) )


Safe build orders

So, with proper scouting, a bot should be able to stop any rush build if it starts out with a safe build order.
There are many choices, but my suggestions for each matchup

TvT: 2 factory build
TvP: Siege expand with a wall
TvZ: 1 rax FE. Build barracks at 10 supply.

PvP: 2 gate. start out with a zealot before dragoon
PvT: 1 gate Core
PvZ: Forge Fast Expand with 2 cannons, or 2 gate zealot

ZvT: It is usually best to go 12 hatch, but if you expect a rush go for 9 pool and put on pressure to come back from behind if terran plays standard.
ZvP: Overpool
ZvZ: 9 pool into 1 hatch spire



*****
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 27 2017 03:00 GMT
#2
Pretty cool read and has lots of good details, well done
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Maenander
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany4927 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-27 13:26:44
January 27 2017 10:05 GMT
#3
I hope you are right, while seeing those rushbots succeed is hilarious at first, it's also pretty damn frustrating after a while.

edit: I just saw that LetaBot is quite successful at the moment, congratulations!
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
January 27 2017 14:07 GMT
#4
On January 27 2017 19:05 Maenander wrote:
I hope you are right, while seeing those rushbots succeed is hilarious at first, it's also pretty damn frustrating after a while.

edit: I just saw that LetaBot is quite successful at the moment, congratulations!


If anything, my bot will be able to stop them in the upcoming CIG tournament.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
noname_
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
470 Posts
January 27 2017 15:11 GMT
#5
In theory starting probes with perfect micro would be able to defeat a terran bot with perfect micro?
Poly_Optimize
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada156 Posts
January 27 2017 15:46 GMT
#6
Nice article with great videos/details.

Rushers have always been a problem for some players. Back in the days, people even had to write NR20 (no rush 20 minutes) in the game title to prevent dying in first 5 minutes. Good luck to punish rushers :p
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
January 27 2017 16:54 GMT
#7
On January 28 2017 00:11 noname_ wrote:
In theory starting probes with perfect micro would be able to defeat a terran bot with perfect micro?



No, Terran can stall the probes long enough to get a marine out.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
February 02 2017 04:23 GMT
#8
If all these rush bots die out, wont that open up a niche in the ecosystem for very greedy bots?

(Thus at an equilibrium, we should be doing something to punish that at some frequency?)
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
LetaBot
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
Netherlands557 Posts
February 03 2017 16:18 GMT
#9
On February 02 2017 13:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
If all these rush bots die out, wont that open up a niche in the ecosystem for very greedy bots?

(Thus at an equilibrium, we should be doing something to punish that at some frequency?)



Yea, as I mentioned you can still use rush builds vs greedy openings. But the point is that bots who only know how to rush will no longer be at the top spots.
If you cannot win with 100 apm, win with 100 cpm.
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
February 12 2017 10:48 GMT
#10
Your build order suggestions are not optimal.
In PvP you also open 1 gate into core, however you always build zealots before core is finished.
In PvZ 2 gate build is not that good unless your opponent plays too greedy(this build has been cracked over the past decade before FE came in).
And in ZvP overpool is not the way you want to go. It is pretty bad vs many openings that protoss can throw at you especially forge expand. You might want to do some overpool in BO5 but most of the time you want a economic opening.

Ulimately the bots won't be able to make the best decisions so perhaps it's easier for them to do a 2 gate than a proper fast expand with all the building placements, scouting, probe pulling...
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Continental Nation League S1
CranKy Ducklings50
Liquipedia
BSL Open Qualifier
04:00
Pro & Gosu - Last Chance #2
ZZZero.O147
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason70
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 888
Shuttle 757
Artosis 595
ZZZero.O 147
ProTech138
NaDa 18
yabsab 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever324
NeuroSwarm167
League of Legends
Reynor87
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1217
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0361
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu1280
Other Games
summit1g7957
FrodaN1585
JimRising 504
PiGStarcraft191
KnowMe118
Maynarde99
ToD1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1029
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 31
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki34
• Pr0nogo 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra843
Other Games
• imaqtpie1357
• Shiphtur608
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
11h 18m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 11h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.