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On October 12 2015 20:58 Foxxan wrote:
so why is this game better than the new smash bros to wii u?
To state a game is objectively better than another game assumes the existence of a function that a common playerbase intends to use the game to perform (i.e. "distinguishing skilled players from unskilled players" or "failing at any cost to encourage that goal"). If you insist on ranking games from best to worst, the very first step you must take is to identify or at least vocally presuppose the common reasons that players pick the game up in the first place. Otherwise you're either ignorant to games criticism or an outright troll.
As this is a site dedicated to competitive gaming, statement of the enclosed fact - that Smash for WiiU was outdated on release and since, except pertaining to issues almost uniformly outside the purview of competitive gaming - is openly welcomed and very difficult to contest.
Part of my opinion is as follows: it is a shallow game, admittedly designed (like Brawl was before it) to be bought, consumed, replaced, and forgotten; its tournament presence has always been an artificial top-down plot to sell copies and systems rather than a grassroots competitive gaming effort as is Melee. Competitively it achieves some things that Melee could not - most relevantly for singles it ignores major execution or APM gulfs between players while still sufficiently testing the players' mastery of psychology and strategy and separating them into winners and losers based on that, albeit more weakly than high-level Melee amply facilitated.
Once you stop presupposing that the players care at all about the win conditions or play for long enough to unlock Mewtwo, you'll start to see Sm4sh creep ahead and overtake Melee in terms of overall value. Indeed, the only reason I can say outright that Sm4sh is the worse game is the fact that you and I are currently on Teamliquid.net, and that encourages me to assume just one thing about our shared values.
I believe that Sm4sh will be forgotten as quickly and easily as it was embraced barring a major and improbable "deepening" update, or the introduction of sweeping seasonal re-balances. Stagnation aside, Sm4sh as a competitive game will be tolerated by the community as long as it continues to skirt its imminent competitive exhaustion and remains useful for event organizers, just like the wrinkled game it killed.
 
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I haven't kept up with Smash which is highly regrettable. I feel like the game went down hill with the Cube and Z-lock. Dodging was a lot more skillful when it relied on attacks while airborne. I also liked the agility aspect of the first game's ground game.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Just going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don't actually watch competitive sm4sh and are just riding the typical melee superiority train...
I can say with complete honesty I enjoy watching Sm4sh more than Melee. But moreover, I see the metagame developing at each tournament, the skill depth increasing with each month and nintendo's balance patches have been on point. I have no reason to doubt that this trend will continue into the future.
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I like Melee more but Sm4sh is still a fun game and far more accessible to the masses. It's definitely superior to Brawl and I think is destined to have a healthier competitive scene than that game.
I'm pretty shocked that Nintendo is actually actively supporting and balancing Sm4sh. Really doesn't seem their style from past experiences. That alone will really help it's longevity.
... so, uh, anyone else playing Rivals of Aether?
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On October 14 2015 18:20 Plexa wrote:
Just going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don't actually watch competitive sm4sh and are just riding the typical melee superiority train...
I can say with complete honesty I enjoy watching Sm4sh more than Melee. But moreover, I see the metagame developing at each tournament, the skill depth increasing with each month and nintendo's balance patches have been on point. I have no reason to doubt that this trend will continue into the future.
I cannot really comment on this. I don't understand Melee 1v1 or team. Too much of the latter game, Brawl, was auto-piloted, it seems, and I think it's a valid complaint that controlling objectives in an hack-and-slash should not receive much emphasis.
Sm4sh sounds super in-your-face.
Have they finally got the overdrives, under control? I really did not enjoy losing "three lives" to glowing orbs of death. The screen froze in Melee and a Starship would snipe you. If I had to play favorites, which I don't, prefer to do, I would probably go with the placebo treatment and just play Melee. But this is from the point of view of one who plays games with exclusive competition.
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On October 14 2015 18:20 Plexa wrote:
Just going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don't actually watch competitive sm4sh and are just riding the typical melee superiority train...
I can say with complete honesty I enjoy watching Sm4sh more than Melee. But moreover, I see the metagame developing at each tournament, the skill depth increasing with each month and nintendo's balance patches have been on point. I have no reason to doubt that this trend will continue into the future.
Unlike Starcraft, most people don't view smash as purely a spectator activity. I don't watch smash 4, but I've played it with friends, and I can say it isn't nearly as fun for me as melee. Maybe its competitive community will thrive, and maybe once you get deeply into it, it's really interesting. All I can say is I was bored as fuck playing it, and that didn't have anything to do with a "melee superiority train".
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On October 14 2015 18:20 Plexa wrote:
Just going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don't actually watch competitive sm4sh and are just riding the typical melee superiority train...
I can say with complete honesty I enjoy watching Sm4sh more than Melee. But moreover, I see the metagame developing at each tournament, the skill depth increasing with each month and nintendo's balance patches have been on point. I have no reason to doubt that this trend will continue into the future.
what about playing?
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Plexa's metaphor regarding his own commentary is on-point, as he is indeed in the dark and taking stabs. Despite this, he was right in claiming that I "don't actually watch" a game I have played, watched, analyzed, and read enough of to profess its nature, which, conveniently for a critic, exactly follows Mr. Sakurai's design intent.
I want to make clear, though, that there are many good and simple reasons to choose Sm4sh over the rest of the series, and I claim just that the vast majority of skills it tests were all tested better by other games in the same series. I also don't see what Plexa sees in the spectator experience that isn't amply provided by Melee, but to join his silly stabbing game, I openly suspect that he hasn't watched any smash game as much as I have.
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EPT
