EPTThe day Valve killed modding - Page 2
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nojok
France15846 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On April 24 2015 17:46 nojok wrote: Where are the TDs, footman mode and all great TFT maps? they will probably be put behind a paywall too when custom games are officially enabled | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On April 24 2015 13:08 Salazarz wrote: Nothing wrong with people being rewarded for their work, the problem is 'good' mods are rarely made by a single person, rather a collaboration of individuals who put in varying amounts of time and effort into it. It creates lots of opportunities for needless drama and bullshit while bringing very little to the table - you're not going to see a sudden influx of super talent creating mods for games just because now they can sell them for peanuts on steam (come on, 75% 'tax'?), but it has a very good chance to disrupt many already successful communities. Nevermind that VALVE taking a cut off those sales is straight up unethical - sure, they run the steam workshop platform but they already get their revenue from ads and store sales. Thank you, that explanation makes a lot of sense. | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On April 24 2015 16:42 WakaDoDo wrote: But yeah, fuck Valve for the 75%, its just nuts. It's not 75% Valve, it's 30% Valve (their standard cut from anything sold on Steam), 70% game developer. The developer decides how much to take and how much to give to the mod author. 25% is Bethesda's rate, not Valve's. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On April 24 2015 17:13 zeo wrote: I think the market for people who actually want to spend money on mods is going to be very small. If everything is behind a paywall how will someone know which mods are good or not? Are people just going to randomly spend money until they find a group of mods that can work together without breaking the game? Valve implemented a 24 hour refund-policy for mods, so you can try them out. There is also a "pay what you want"-system, which is how it should be done for all mods if they want to monetize it in my opinion (it's basically donations) That said I totally agree that the system is a mess, not because modders shouldn't be rewarded, but because of how it's done/how it can be abused | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 24 2015 20:01 clusen wrote: Valve implemented a 24 hour refund-policy for mods, so you can try them out. There is also a "pay what you want"-system, which is how it should be done for all mods if they want to monetize it in my opinion (it's basically donations) That said I totally agree that the system is a mess, not because modders shouldn't be rewarded, but because of how it's done/how it can be abused The modders are also not required to charge, as far as I can tell. This is just a way for them to make money off of their work if they want. | ||
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G3CKO
Canada1430 Posts
On April 24 2015 20:01 clusen wrote: Valve implemented a 24 hour refund-policy for mods, so you can try them out. There is also a "pay what you want"-system, which is how it should be done for all mods if they want to monetize it in my opinion (it's basically donations) That said I totally agree that the system is a mess, not because modders shouldn't be rewarded, but because of how it's done/how it can be abused Like I was saying 24 hours is not long enough to test a huge chunk of mods. Some requires you spend like weeks into. If you want to do everything in Wyrmstooth or Falskaar you might need 2 days if you do it without sleep. Not to mention you want to be at least level 25-30 in game before even starting Wyrmstooth. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KYP3Rhk.jpg) | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On April 25 2015 03:18 Daralii wrote: The refund also only goes into your Steam wallet. If you spend $5 on a mod and it flat out doesn't work, all you can get back are Steam Funbux. Now you're just picking at things. If you are someone who buys mods, you will eventually buy another thing off of steam, 99% of people will anyway. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 25 2015 03:31 FiWiFaKi wrote: Now you're just picking at things. If you are someone who buys mods, you will eventually buy another thing off of steam, 99% of people will anyway. It is a valid complaint. That's not a refund, that's store credit. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
It's very well outlined here http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy how the refund policy works, whether you want to call is store credit or whatever. At the end of the day, knowing gamers, people will want try them out, and generally abuse the system. This saves the transaction fees (which are significant), instead, steam gets the money, and you can purchase whatever else you'd like. The refund is being given to you, for your mistake of purchasing a product you didn't like, they have no obligation to give you one. Maybe what would be more effective, is every mod has a 4-24 hour free trial per steam account, this would allow modders to actually show to people what they have created, otherwise it's very difficult for them to gain traction with paid mods. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 25 2015 04:28 FiWiFaKi wrote: Does it matter? It's very well outlined here http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy how the refund policy works, whether you want to call is store credit or whatever. At the end of the day, knowing gamers, people will want try them out, and generally abuse the system. This saves the transaction fees (which are significant), instead, steam gets the money, and you can purchase whatever else you'd like. The refund is being given to you, for your mistake of purchasing a product you didn't like, they have no obligation to give you one. Maybe what would be more effective, is every mod has a 4-24 hour free trial per steam account, this would allow modders to actually show to people what they have created, otherwise it's very difficult for them to gain traction with paid mods. Problem is that the system abuse is from both ends, not just the buyer, but all the risk is on the buyer side. But I think everyone agrees that the system is terrible. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
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misirlou
Portugal3317 Posts
On April 24 2015 18:12 Random() wrote: It's not 75% Valve, it's 30% Valve (their standard cut from anything sold on Steam), 70% game developer. The developer decides how much to take and how much to give to the mod author. 25% is Bethesda's rate, not Valve's. valve takes 15% off market and another 15% to the game dev. CSGO and DotA for example give 30% to valve because valve is the game dev. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On April 24 2015 09:55 Spicy_Curry wrote: why cant valve just put a donation button to support the modder instead Because the ycan't take their freaking 75% cut on a donation >< 75%, Valve's way, like in dota. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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i.exies
United Kingdom28 Posts
On April 24 2015 17:15 MotherOfRunes wrote: even if it would make sense, which it does not, 75% for valve is just a bad joke.....i mean they destroyed already the hat system You are really biased. Valve always took 75%. For items/ guns skins / cs:go maps / tournament tickets ; most of the things. They even take 75% out of 0.75$ tickets They didnt destroy the hat system in dota, at least not for the casual buyer and normal dota player. Yes if you are a trader and you were looking to make profit out of dota the current system is against you, like it should be. One year ago you had to wait for a chest to drop at the end of the game then buy a 2$ key. That resulted in you getting 1 item from a set, be it a weapon, chest piece etc. You also got duplicated items (which is why there were a lot of traders looking to trade their duplicates). Now for the same 2$ you get an entire item set, so you dont get 1 item you get 6 items. On the other side, just like before in order to buy a full set for a hero you had to spend ~10$, now you have two options: you either spend 10$ and get the set you want, or you can "gamble" and open chests in order to get the set you want. A chest usually has 5 item sets (+2 extra free drops) meaning that you either spend 10$ for the set you want, or you can gamble and potentially get the 10$ set you want for 2$. But even if you dont and lets say you need to open 3 chests to get the set you want that would mean you spent 6$ instead of 10 and you also got 2 extra sets. So for a 10$ set from the store you can buy it straight from the store OR get that set +4 other sets that you can later sell on the market that will bring you some returns. The consumer gets more than he ever did before, Valve gets more money (more chests sold + steam market taxes) and both are happy. So saying they ruined the microeconomy of dota because your 0.3$ rare is now 0.03$ is completely wrong but rather think that your 0.3$ rare was way overpriced. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On April 25 2015 08:49 SilverSkyLark wrote: Might go a bit off topic here but wasn't Counter Strike and Team Fortress 1 both mods from HL? Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, and Dota all started off as mods. I think L4D even started off as a mod for HL1. | ||
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G3CKO
Canada1430 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
the quality work coming out of steam workshop for dota now is gorgeous. i'd like to hear what those artists have to say about the viability of producing such work without structure and income | ||
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