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I think if there were ever a universal rule for SC2 expansions and patches, it would be that the fans believe that Blizzard did everything wrong. So, are the fans just whiny bitches, or is there some legitimate gripe to be had here? We'll talk about that in a bit, but first I want to talk about something that I believe is wrong with Legacy of the Void. I'm sure this new title will give fans of franchise everything they would expect from a SC2 title: fresh new units, new maps, exciting new strategies, heavily-exploited all-ins, unbeatable unit compositions, and the always magical first moment of crippling disappointment.
Then, there would be more crippling disappointment. I think this is fairly normal, though. Filthy casuals are learning what us hardcore nerds have known for years: video games are really difficult to master, and even harder to play against other people. Every game I play has whining people saying how OP this and that is, and how the game's parent company is 'ruining' it. I'm very certain if people played StarCraft: Brood War on a large-scale, even in this day, people would rage about how the game is broken fundamentally. Inevitably, there would be really bad threads by casual fans coming up with ways to 'fix' the game that wasn't broken.
So what I'm saying is: I don't know how to 'fix' SC2. At this point, I think the fanbase is too cynical and toxic for the game to really recover its image unless LotV is really good.
But I got some beef already.
I don't know if the current incarnation of Blizzard Inc. is trying to create a game that is more like Brood War, or is trying to create something different. I can't know their intentions, but I do know that fans complained that the play in SC2 had become too static; it was basically the same stuff over and over again mixed with some infuriating all-ins. Part of the problem came from terrible, terrible damage, and part of it came from three-base play.
Three-base play is where you develop the optimal economy on three bases to max your army, do your one or two engagements, then win or lose. You can do the same thing in Brood War, actually. The difference (in my humble opinion) is that in Brood War, if you take a fourth base against other person's three, and defend their attack, then you will have a slightly better economy. In SC2, if you take a fourth base, that investment will leave you with too few units and your opponents' timing attack will kill you, so you have to play positioning games until you're close to being maxed.
In Brood War, if you have a huge economy, like six bases or something, you have a ton of income, so you can add on a bunch of production facilities, and regenerate your army so that every time you trade units, you are able to regrow your army faster than they can until they can't force a trade and crumble. That's why having a lot of bases is awesome.
In Legacy of the Void, the economy change is supposed to address fans cries for games that encourage players to take more bases and throw out the meta-game of having one or two really big fights that decide the whole game. So if Blizzard's intention was to make the game more like Brood War, they did the complete opposite by some terrible April Fool's prank gone wrong.
You see, in Brood War, the optimal worker count is way less than in SC2. The reason is that the workers mine minerals slower and deliver 4 at a time instead of 5 Edit: I was running on so little sleep, but it's 8 per trip in SCBW. In SC2, the worker pathing is more efficient, and the time it takes for the workers to gather the actual crystal and bring it back is much quicker than in Brood War. Since only one worker can occupy a patch to mine at a time, you'll only need 2 per mineral in BW because if you add too many more, the worker will just bounce around looking for an empty patch to mine from. In SC2, you can have as many as three per patch, and this fact, coupled with how quickly they mine compared to BW, you have a much larger economy in a much shorter time frame.
The economy growth in SC2 makes it possible - if you hold off harassment attempts - to quickly pile up a big production infrastructure on three bases and max out your army really fast. Legacy of the Void has changed this by reducing the amount of minerals per patch, so that the bases will mine out quicker, not allowing a player to sit on three bases for long. My problem with that is this:
- In Brood War, you want to get 6 bases because it will give you a ton of economy and production
- In LotV, you have to get 6 bases because you don't want to run out of money
This feature doesn't really give players many options. It also seems to penalize players for not taking bases, rather than rewarding them for taking bases. My suggestion, if I were in charge of the whole StarCraft world (that'd be scary), would not be to reduce the amount of minerals per patch, but reduce the rate by which workers actually harvest minerals. This would mean each base would reach an optimal worker count at 2 or so per mineral, and the player could produce extra workers to maynard to a fourth base if they wanted to expand, - or - cut workers and go for a timing attack.
The current pace at which economy and production occur in SC2 (again, just in my opinion) allow a player to reach a 'critical mass' of a particular unit or unit composition faster than an opposing player can react to it. By 'react', I don't mean their actual dexterity, I mean their in-game limitations. Sometimes, by the time a player can scout and identify their opponent doing something, it's too late to adjust their tech tree, or place the appropriate production facilities, and winning becomes almost impossible.
 
Anyhow, a bit earlier, I asked "So, are the fans just whiny bitches, or is there some legitimate gripe to be had here?" and actually would say it's both. There are lots of whiny people who have no idea how to express themselves appropriately who play games. I feel like a lot of companies, including Activision and Blizzard, mistreat their fans because they know the fans will just take it. And it's not just Blizzard. Other companies do it as well. Everything is geared towards maximizing the profit for Blizzard, even if it means you get a rushed product and you have to kick and scream to get small things changed over the course of years. That's absolutely wrong.
I think SC2 fans have been mistreated terribly. I mean, Blizzard isn't beating you with a stick like an angry drunken step-dad, but you're still getting boned.
- You have no LAN
This was implemented, I'm convinced, so that no foreign pro-gaming countries could host a tournament without Blizzard's approval. If any company or organization hosted a major tournament not sanctioned by Blizzard, they would be instantly shut off from the server. LAN support would be easy to implement, but Blizzard doesn't want to deal with another pre-SC2 Kespa. This spoils the fun for everyone, so even minor stuff like 50$ tours can't proceed because battle.net goes down and there is no LAN or alternate servers.
- You own nothing.
You don't actually own a copy of SC2. You paid for the privilege to play. Blizzard can take away your ability to play SC2 at any time. This got a bit better with the arcade being open to play for free, but you still have nothing that is yours. With SC1, you got a disc, and as long as you and a friend both had a disc, you could both play whenever you wanted.
- You have no say
If there is an overpowered unit (think infestors in WoL) Blizzard will ignore the problem as long as possible. Once you've paid for their product, there's not much more money they can milk out of you from that particular title, and will only make changes so the game won't suck so bad that it scares away potential late-buyers or makes players pause to buy sequels. Now that LotV is out, I don't see any reason to add any patches or updates for balance purposes past first six months or so.
In conclusion, Blizzard is an abusive significant-other that doesn't understand you, and is using you for your money, and it hurts me when I see you get back into that relationship over and over and keep getting hurt. It hurts me to see you getting hurt like that, and you deserve better than that.
Think about it.
p.s. - Blizzard, get your shit together
  
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On April 08 2015 18:10 ninazerg wrote:
Blizzard, get your shit together
pls blizz ;_;
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Netherlands4988 Posts
Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs.+ Show Spoiler +
Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead.
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I disagree with you and would go mostly with the "whiny bitches" answer. The specific points of mistreatment you mention are popular to whine about, but are they such a big deal?
- no LAN: does anyone really care anymore? It's not killing tourneys anymore and for individual players it's pointless, because you need internet to play ladder anyway, and ladder is all that matters for serious players like you, right?
- own nothing: that's actually pretty bullshit and I agree it should be changed, but it is a bullshit of the whole industry, stupidly allowed by laws and governments. Blizzard would be silly if they didn't go this way and as they are a publicly traded company, someone would probably go to jail if they didn't milk people this way.
- no say: that's not a problem, that is FUCKING AWESOME. The fact that Blizzard resists the urge to allow whiny bitches to steer their game is their greatest achievement. I bet that if they would listen to people, you would hate the game even more.
Overall, the whole idea that the game "needs fixing" is just a product of whine bitches' need to find something to whiny bitch about and doesn't really exist outside of some highly circklejerking communities (and their associated whiny bitchy following who would however jump on any hatetrain offered to them).
I am actually not even mad with all the misguided posts on TL on the "fixing" of the game. Just go on, argue, debate, make up solutions to made up problems. We are going to enjoy the game meanwhile regardless (unless you infiltrate LR threads, that would lower the enjoyment a little - but you all hate the game, so why would you even go there?)
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
You're terribly wrong in the most of things you say about factual differences between BW and SC2 worker mechanics. 4 minerals per trip WHAT? Someone with more patience may come and prove you wrong piece by piece, but I'll just rate this post a 1.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
You're going to love the next TL Strat LotV piece 
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28088 Posts
On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead.
BW players still feel the need to validate themselves by talking about how bad it's successor is.
Which I agree with and do as well 
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"LotV is doing the economy fix wrong"
instant 5/5
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Kinda seems like you accidentally started talking about SC2 economy while calling it BW. But definitely because of the AI quirks of peons in BW, things get very complicated.
You can read this THESIS someone wrote many years ago about mining AI in StarCraft Brood War, because I think you don't need my summary to get interested in it.
http://projekter.aau.dk/projekter/files/42685711/report.pdf
IMO one of the significant side effects of these quirks, are that it IS worth it to build more workers even to the point that you have 3x per patch (in part because you can transfer them to a new base when needed), and the harassment done to kill workers that are above 2x per patch is still valuable, but it isn't crippling, the same way killing a worker in ZvZ is when you have 1 or less workers per patch. It is just a weird catch-up function that was accidentally designed into the game, where for the most part the advantage gained from killing some workers is recoverable, and there is some time where your armies are still about the same size that you can return the favour to your opponent before the economic advantage really kicks in. The difference in SC2 is that this never happens because there's no such thing as inefficient mining. They either mine perfectly or they aren't doing anything at all, which means losing 8 workers when you're on two base means you lose 1/4th of your economy. Losing 8 workers in BW is harsh on two base, but you aren't dead and usually it evens out because the investment spent to harass you affected your opponent's expansion timing.
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Canada13389 Posts
On April 08 2015 19:27 Plexa wrote:You're going to love the next TL Strat LotV piece
:D <3
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On April 08 2015 18:10 ninazerg wrote:
I don't know if the current incarnation of Blizzard Inc. is trying to create a game that is more like Brood War, or is trying to create something different. I can't know their intentions
what is casual pandering
what is $$$
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And secretly I was actually getting a little excited about LotV after not giving sc2 any attention for 2 years.
You're right nina, I must remain strong.
Don't cry now children, don't cry.
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I am interested, why do you think we have no say at all? And if that is a bad thing?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50120 Posts
5/5 for the responses, oh man lol.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
not enough sass in this thread so disappointing
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On April 08 2015 22:12 lichter wrote:
not enough sass in this thread so disappointing
I will add some sass and say BW has become irrelevant.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50120 Posts
On April 08 2015 22:20 excitedBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 22:12 lichter wrote:
not enough sass in this thread so disappointing I will add some sass and say BW has become irrelevant.
oh man lol
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On April 08 2015 22:18 Endymion wrote:
sc2 needs more peruvians
no need, we have made proxy hatchery a standard macro build
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On April 08 2015 22:41 Ej_ wrote:no need, we have made proxy hatchery a standard macro build
we need a feature to bump latency to extra high based on the peruvian's discretion
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I expected more liberal use of the word 'fuck' in this post.
I haven't played LotV personally, but based on what games I've seen these seem like valid points.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
Isn't it 8 minerals per trip for BW?
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On April 08 2015 23:26 FuRong wrote:
I expected more liberal use of the word 'fuck' in this post.
Agreed, this is probably the most straightforward blog nina has written.
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On April 08 2015 23:57 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 23:26 FuRong wrote:
I expected more liberal use of the word 'fuck' in this post.
Agreed, this is probably the most straightforward blog nina has written.
I can't read nina's mind but as a fan of Starcraft, when I complain or criticise about SC2 it's because I WANT to enjoy it and I WANT SC2 to be a good successor to BW, or even a better, to be better than BW. I have no intention of wanting to play an old game that is unpopular if I can enjoy a newer and more popular game equally or even more.
I think this is the same for many people, including nina. I don't enjoy complaining at all or being perceived as an elitist, and I daresay that some of us (like nina) actually care about Starcraft more than the new comers. Why else would she spend all that time to write that?
On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead.
I agree nina
the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back :D
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On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back
I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you.
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On April 09 2015 00:00 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead. I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you.
I was joking hahahaha relax
there's nothing to be butthurt about
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LOTV is going to be the most disappointing piece of software Blizzard has ever produced.
Making changes according to what people are whining to and what would be 'cool' never leads to anything good.
Pleasing everyone makes things bad for everyone in return.
That's why Broodwar was good.
It didn't care about the whiners.
It didn't care if a unit or ability was cool enough.
Shit product marketing....
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On April 09 2015 00:02 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 00:00 Luolis wrote:On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead. I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you. I was joking hahahaha relax there's nothing to be butthurt about
Yeah npnp, its just hard to see if youre an actual bw-elitist or someone who jokes.
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On April 09 2015 00:18 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 00:02 JieXian wrote:On April 09 2015 00:00 Luolis wrote:On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead. I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you. I was joking hahahaha relax there's nothing to be butthurt about Yeah npnp, its just hard to see if youre an actual bw-elitist or someone who jokes.
+ Show Spoiler +Well, Flash n JD are nobodies anyway 
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On April 09 2015 00:18 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 00:02 JieXian wrote:On April 09 2015 00:00 Luolis wrote:On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead. I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you. I was joking hahahaha relax there's nothing to be butthurt about Yeah npnp, its just hard to see if youre an actual bw-elitist or someone who jokes.
The first part of his post kinda gave it away though d:
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On April 09 2015 00:05 LastWish wrote:
LOTV is going to be the most disappointing piece of software Blizzard has ever produced.
Making changes according to what people are whining to and what would be 'cool' never leads to anything good.
Pleasing everyone makes things bad for everyone in return.
That's why Broodwar was good.
It didn't care about the whiners.
It didn't care if a unit or ability was cool enough.
Shit product marketing....
i agree with this, lotv will be a half rate mix of sc2 and bw that won't excel on either side... at least wings of liberty had some character.
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On April 09 2015 00:36 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 00:18 Luolis wrote:On April 09 2015 00:02 JieXian wrote:On April 09 2015 00:00 Luolis wrote:On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead. I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you. I was joking hahahaha relax there's nothing to be butthurt about Yeah npnp, its just hard to see if youre an actual bw-elitist or someone who jokes. The first part of his post kinda gave it away though d:
wasnt there when i saw the post.
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On April 08 2015 18:10 ninazerg wrote:
LAN support would be easy to implement, but Blizzard doesn't want to deal with another pre-SC2 Kespa.
I have officially decided that I no longer want LAN.
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On April 08 2015 18:46 opisska wrote:
I disagree with you and would go mostly with the "whiny bitches" answer. The specific points of mistreatment you mention are popular to whine about, but are they such a big deal?
- no LAN: does anyone really care anymore? It's not killing tourneys anymore and for individual players it's pointless, because you need internet to play ladder anyway, and ladder is all that matters for serious players like you, right?
- own nothing: that's actually pretty bullshit and I agree it should be changed, but it is a bullshit of the whole industry, stupidly allowed by laws and governments. Blizzard would be silly if they didn't go this way and as they are a publicly traded company, someone would probably go to jail if they didn't milk people this way.
- no say: that's not a problem, that is FUCKING AWESOME. The fact that Blizzard resists the urge to allow whiny bitches to steer their game is their greatest achievement. I bet that if they would listen to people, you would hate the game even more.
Overall, the whole idea that the game "needs fixing" is just a product of whine bitches' need to find something to whiny bitch about and doesn't really exist outside of some highly circklejerking communities (and their associated whiny bitchy following who would however jump on any hatetrain offered to them).
I am actually not even mad with all the misguided posts on TL on the "fixing" of the game. Just go on, argue, debate, make up solutions to made up problems. We are going to enjoy the game meanwhile regardless (unless you infiltrate LR threads, that would lower the enjoyment a little - but you all hate the game, so why would you even go there?)
I apologize that everyone else isn't as smart as you are and that as consumers, we have expectations. We should just accept what our corporate overlords give us.
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On April 08 2015 23:40 Seeker wrote:
Isn't it 8 minerals per trip for BW?
Yes. I was just testing you. And you passed.
On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:
Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead.
I already play Brood War.
On April 08 2015 22:12 lichter wrote:
not enough sass in this thread so disappointing
Happy birthday, Lichter! :D
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Whenever i see LotV I think of my name, Lars! Sort of an exciting feeling
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ninazerg is the Thomas Piketty of Starcraft.
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On April 09 2015 08:08 Jerubaal wrote:
ninazerg is the Thomas Piketty of Starcraft.
That would be too much honor for piketty
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All your opinions on how SC2 should be stem from the fact that you think BW had everything perfect. So when you're trying to imagine how to make the game better you just resort to "make it more like BW".
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interesting blog.
when it comes to big budget RTS games Blizzard is the last game in town... Ensemble and EALA packed it in a long time ago.... and Victory Games never actually produced a game.
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On April 09 2015 09:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
interesting blog.
when it comes to big budget RTS games Blizzard is the last game in town... Ensemble and EALA packed it in a long time ago.... and Victory Games never actually produced a game.
Yes, I am just happy they are still doing it.
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"Blizzard ruined SC2 by making it too casual."
"Why can't Blizzard be a good e-sports company like Riot."
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On April 09 2015 09:50 deathly rat wrote:
All your opinions on how SC2 should be stem from the fact that you think BW had everything perfect. So when you're trying to imagine how to make the game better you just resort to "make it more like BW".
I think her approach is reasonable. Even if you don't play either game, you can understand why it would be cool to reward a player more for expanding more. I remember watching SCBW games and you knew when a player was on 6 bases that he was going to be pumping out a lot of unit and you'd get a lot of insane action for the next little while. Now you see a player on 6 bases and it's no more crazy than before. It just lasts longer.
I think it's clear that I have my preferences but you can't deny, if you've ever watched BW, that there's something exciting about a zerg who's managed to expand very quickly and he gets to go into overdrive mode. Hell, in SCBW zerg couldn't easily even build ultralisks on 3 bases. It generally required 4+, and when it got there you knew shit was getting real.
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On April 09 2015 09:50 deathly rat wrote:
All your opinions on how SC2 should be stem from the fact that you think BW had everything perfect. So when you're trying to imagine how to make the game better you just resort to "make it more like BW".
I didn't say that at all. Do you even know how to read!?
On April 09 2015 09:54 Jerubaal wrote:
"Blizzard ruined SC2 by making it too casual."
"Why can't Blizzard be a good e-sports company like Riot."
Riot sucks.
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On April 09 2015 07:00 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 18:46 opisska wrote:
I disagree with you and would go mostly with the "whiny bitches" answer. The specific points of mistreatment you mention are popular to whine about, but are they such a big deal?
- no LAN: does anyone really care anymore? It's not killing tourneys anymore and for individual players it's pointless, because you need internet to play ladder anyway, and ladder is all that matters for serious players like you, right?
- own nothing: that's actually pretty bullshit and I agree it should be changed, but it is a bullshit of the whole industry, stupidly allowed by laws and governments. Blizzard would be silly if they didn't go this way and as they are a publicly traded company, someone would probably go to jail if they didn't milk people this way.
- no say: that's not a problem, that is FUCKING AWESOME. The fact that Blizzard resists the urge to allow whiny bitches to steer their game is their greatest achievement. I bet that if they would listen to people, you would hate the game even more.
Overall, the whole idea that the game "needs fixing" is just a product of whine bitches' need to find something to whiny bitch about and doesn't really exist outside of some highly circklejerking communities (and their associated whiny bitchy following who would however jump on any hatetrain offered to them).
I am actually not even mad with all the misguided posts on TL on the "fixing" of the game. Just go on, argue, debate, make up solutions to made up problems. We are going to enjoy the game meanwhile regardless (unless you infiltrate LR threads, that would lower the enjoyment a little - but you all hate the game, so why would you even go there?) I apologize that everyone else isn't as smart as you are and that as consumers, we have expectations. We should just accept what our corporate overlords give us.
I am not feeling enough sincerity from your apology.
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On April 09 2015 08:08 Jerubaal wrote:
ninazerg is the Thomas Piketty of Starcraft.
no, Thomas Piketty is the ninazerg of political philosophy.
On April 09 2015 07:00 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 18:46 opisska wrote:
I disagree with you and would go mostly with the "whiny bitches" answer. The specific points of mistreatment you mention are popular to whine about, but are they such a big deal?
- no LAN: does anyone really care anymore? It's not killing tourneys anymore and for individual players it's pointless, because you need internet to play ladder anyway, and ladder is all that matters for serious players like you, right?
- own nothing: that's actually pretty bullshit and I agree it should be changed, but it is a bullshit of the whole industry, stupidly allowed by laws and governments. Blizzard would be silly if they didn't go this way and as they are a publicly traded company, someone would probably go to jail if they didn't milk people this way.
- no say: that's not a problem, that is FUCKING AWESOME. The fact that Blizzard resists the urge to allow whiny bitches to steer their game is their greatest achievement. I bet that if they would listen to people, you would hate the game even more.
Overall, the whole idea that the game "needs fixing" is just a product of whine bitches' need to find something to whiny bitch about and doesn't really exist outside of some highly circklejerking communities (and their associated whiny bitchy following who would however jump on any hatetrain offered to them).
I am actually not even mad with all the misguided posts on TL on the "fixing" of the game. Just go on, argue, debate, make up solutions to made up problems. We are going to enjoy the game meanwhile regardless (unless you infiltrate LR threads, that would lower the enjoyment a little - but you all hate the game, so why would you even go there?) I apologize that everyone else isn't as smart as you are and that as consumers, we have expectations. We should just accept what our corporate overlords give us.
the term "whiney bitches" is inflammatory and not constructive
often times in reading TL.Net i feel that Blizzard and the vocal segment of the SC2 community have a parent/child relationship.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On April 09 2015 09:54 Jerubaal wrote:
"Blizzard ruined SC2 by making it too casual."
"Why can't Blizzard be a good e-sports company like Riot."
if blizzard were like riot then sc2 would have no replays :D
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On April 09 2015 00:02 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 00:00 Luolis wrote:On April 08 2015 23:57 JieXian wrote:On April 08 2015 18:28 Peeano wrote:Stopped reading after 6 paragraphs. + Show Spoiler +Why do you care so much about SC2? Just play BW instead. I agree nina the quicker sc2 dies, the quicker we get JD and flash back I can smell the butthurtedness, and bw elitism from you. I was joking hahahaha relax there's nothing to be butthurt about
Depends, I randomly stumbled across this game this morning:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/11572_Iris_vs_Jaedong/vod
I shed a tear watching the Dong microing two control groups of muta simultaneously.
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On April 09 2015 21:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
the term "whiney bitches" is inflammatory and not constructive
often times in reading TL.Net i feel that Blizzard and the vocal segment of the SC2 community have a parent/child relationship.
Are you triggered right now? Do you feel threatened by my cyberbullying?
On April 09 2015 16:18 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 07:00 ninazerg wrote:On April 08 2015 18:46 opisska wrote:
I disagree with you and would go mostly with the "whiny bitches" answer. The specific points of mistreatment you mention are popular to whine about, but are they such a big deal?
- no LAN: does anyone really care anymore? It's not killing tourneys anymore and for individual players it's pointless, because you need internet to play ladder anyway, and ladder is all that matters for serious players like you, right?
- own nothing: that's actually pretty bullshit and I agree it should be changed, but it is a bullshit of the whole industry, stupidly allowed by laws and governments. Blizzard would be silly if they didn't go this way and as they are a publicly traded company, someone would probably go to jail if they didn't milk people this way.
- no say: that's not a problem, that is FUCKING AWESOME. The fact that Blizzard resists the urge to allow whiny bitches to steer their game is their greatest achievement. I bet that if they would listen to people, you would hate the game even more.
Overall, the whole idea that the game "needs fixing" is just a product of whine bitches' need to find something to whiny bitch about and doesn't really exist outside of some highly circklejerking communities (and their associated whiny bitchy following who would however jump on any hatetrain offered to them).
I am actually not even mad with all the misguided posts on TL on the "fixing" of the game. Just go on, argue, debate, make up solutions to made up problems. We are going to enjoy the game meanwhile regardless (unless you infiltrate LR threads, that would lower the enjoyment a little - but you all hate the game, so why would you even go there?) I apologize that everyone else isn't as smart as you are and that as consumers, we have expectations. We should just accept what our corporate overlords give us. I am not feeling enough sincerity from your apology.
I don't care!
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I feel like this is just a whiny post. Look if you and the community wanted blizzard to change don't buy the game, don't by it. Then the dev team gets fired and new people come in
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On April 09 2015 21:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 08:08 Jerubaal wrote:
ninazerg is the Thomas Piketty of Starcraft. no, Thomas Piketty is the ninazerg of political philosophy. .
Look, I know this is a jocular thread, but this is just too ridiculous.
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On April 10 2015 07:52 HeeroFX wrote:
I feel like this is just a whiny post. Look if you and the community wanted blizzard to change don't buy the game, don't by it. Then the dev team gets fired and new people come in
telling blizz fanbois not to buy their games. Despite all their complaining and whining, they will always be as rabid as ever over the next blizz releases
and it was whining that got rid of jay wilson from D3. and even then D3 remains inferior to its predecessor and other ARPG like PoE
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On April 10 2015 07:52 HeeroFX wrote:
I feel like this is just a whiny post. Look if you and the community wanted blizzard to change don't buy the game, don't by it. Then the dev team gets fired and new people come in
I'm just mad cuz I never made it past Bronze. You got me.
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Ignoring the BW nostalgia thing, It's true that a BW econ system would be very interesting for LotV.
BW econ doesn't really create much "defender" advantage, but "expander" advantage due to saturation (max efficiency) happening with 1 worker per patch. The defender advantage only really happens if the defending player is at least 1 base ahead spreading workers. If not, being contained or turtled means decreased efficiency on economy. Turtle players can be easily exploited by spreading workers on more expansions.
Imagine the typical ZvP scenario where Protoss goes more or less turtle against Z.
Zerg is usually 1 base ahead or even 2. Then Protoss would get more punished since the Zerg could have the same econ it can reach right now with less workers. Larva save is important for Zerg.
Same applies for turtle Mech. Defensive turtling strategy? Okay, let' have 1.5 times income than the turtle with same workers.
The problem with SC2 econ is that in order to gain advantage over a turtle player you have to expand AND build more workers than them to gain income advantage, so you cannot afford an equal army to the turtle player. Typical case of 90 worker Zerg vs mech.
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EPT
