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Attack - Defense - Economy correlations.

Blogs > etofok
Post a Reply
etofok
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
138 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-26 13:09:24
January 11 2015 21:16 GMT
#1
Attack - Defense - Economy correlations: a projection from other games.

Small edit: I used highly popular games to illustrate the system that any game has, including dota. Being aware is the first step of any improvement.
It's like when a human first time in his life sees an apple, and then another apple - he acquires the ability to find apples in a basket of other fruits by himself.


There are 3 fundamental pillars that hold up games that have any sort of tactics or strategies:

Attack - Defense - Economy


[image loading]


This is the basic triangle, and it is quite similar to the famous Rock-Paper-Scissors one. However there are differences:

1) The elements have specified parameters while Paper beats Rock 10 out of 10 without any drawbacks.
2) Decisions players make affect their long-term game, meaning the very ability to strategize emerges.
3) Each move (decision) has a different value each turn / second you play because of the aforementioned points.

For example, you can accumulate a certain amount of Rocks and when you have too much of it, you’ll beat the Paper. If you are too ahead you can do pretty much whatever, because you've already snowballed out of control.


+ Show Spoiler +
Worth mentioning, there are differences between the words “Strategy” and “Tactic”. In short:

“Strategy” is a long-term behavior that consists of following some specific and circumspect guidelines.
“Tactics” are the local moves to perform on the path of following those guidelines.

Same thing - different scale.


At some point they might blend into each other and become too blurry to surely distinguish which is which, however in general these are correct definitions.




Both Attack (offense) and Defense are straightforward: you are either preparing / performing an attack or you're preparing for an incoming attack to deflect it with little to no losses.

But the Economy part is what most players overlook.


Any action you perform to get stronger without any actual confrontation with your opponents counts as an Economy move.


In traditional strategy games, such as Starcraft and Warcraft you invest your time and money - resources you possess - into:

1) Acquiring a higher technology level or
2) Making further expansions and production facilities or
3) Researching essential upgrades for your army or
4) ...



Almost every other game has this crucial gameplay element at the very least at its “Tactics” or even smaller scales.

In Dark Souls, for instance, in a boss fight you can drink a healing potion to heal up, you can use a specific item to imbue your weapon with an element that plain out increases the damage you do.

You are not attacking, neither you are defending, however in that moment you’re virtually investing your precious seconds into your health bar or into your further damage output. This move requires from a player an okay timing otherwise you'll get a spear right into your head in the process.

The most vivid example of this I can give you: http://gifyoutube.com/gif/m2qYkx

1) My Defense responses against their Attack moves
2) My Economy move (weapon enhancement) vs Their Economy move & Idling
3) One successful Attack move when the opportunity presented itself.
Needless to say, because of the correct Eco move I was able to bring both of them down in time to close the fight.


If you can’t wrap your head around the idea “how the hell healing is making me stronger” - think about the health bar as insufficient from the start. If during a fight you had to use more than the initial 99 health points in order to stay alive, let's say something like 567 HP - because you healed up so much - this is clearly the definition of making your character stronger: in that fight you essentially had 568 health points, but you paid a cost of playing several Eco moves.



In Dota / League you can safely consider Eco moves as farming and getting experience for your heroes, because the hero is your main and the only valuable asset: it is simultaneously a technological tree, your main production facility to generate gold and your entire army as one entity.
[image loading]

At any point in a game players have to choose one of these 3 vectors to go for.

A friendly reminder that each move (A / D / E) has a different value depending on a situation: overextending as a carry without buyback deep into late game nullifies all the previous choices and instantaneously loses you a game.


Now check this out: ADEgame.

The game will show you this exact topic in action:
1) Importance of every move and why you should choose carefully
2) How pitiful players look when they do completely random stuff without any plan in their head
3) How can anyone create a new metagame just by slightly adjusting the rules
4) Some specific scenarios to play against - when your opponent has a plan
5) Other helpful explanations

Just open up the link and once you’re in as your starting point click the Guide button.


Cheers.

etofok
The king, the priest, the rich man—who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey?
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3265 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-19 00:50:59
January 19 2015 00:45 GMT
#2
Interesting writeup.

While i can see the defense point, it's not the way most strategy games work according to my experience. To be exact I dont know a single strategy game where investing into defense more than into offense is a viable strategy except maybe for the stronghold series.
In most strategy games I know it's common to use offensive forces for defense because that allows to go out on the map and increase your economy while forcing the enemy to stay on his, generating advantage over time. In some games you mix defensive with offensive forces to be safe against early rushes, but most settle for a meta that goes offense->map control/eco->offense. That can be applied to Dota as well.

I think this is a deliberate decision by the developers. They could increase the starting economy or introduce efficient ways to increase your eco inside of your base (it's possible to build most of strongholds eco in the base), but nobody likes to play against turtle and even less people like to watch it.

In Dota I dont think there exists a concept of putting resources into your strategic defense aside from the draft where you can draft something like kotl razor sk. But even there pure 4 protect 1 is overall pretty much dead because it generates to much economic disadvantage.
low gravity, yes-yes!
etofok
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
138 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-19 18:36:09
January 19 2015 16:48 GMT
#3
While i can see the defense point, it's not the way most strategy games work according to my experience. To be exact I dont know a single strategy game where investing into defense more than into offense is a viable strategy except maybe for the stronghold series.

In Dota I dont think there exists a concept of putting resources into your strategic defense aside from the draft where you can draft something like kotl razor sk. But even there pure 4 protect 1 is overall pretty much dead because it generates to much economic disadvantage.


It's not about "defense" as a strategy, it is about using this option when it's needed, simply because this option is always the least desirable one - it gives you nothing.

It's only a response as a preparation, meaning you sacrifice your time/energy/progression to avoid losing more time/energy/progression. An undeflected attack might be crippling. If a team/player can't, or don't understand how use Defense at the right time - they are in clear disadvantage, i.e. pointless feeding.

For example when you see 0 people on the map you probably should gather up or go back - to play safer. Otherwise your AM dies to a gank, for instance.

Stepping aside from Dota, if in a strategy game you can do only Defense / Economy without any Attack - the definition of horrible design, see the end of Sc2 WoL TvZ for the reference. This is an intricate problem - balancing the numbers in such correlations, but nonetheless a solvable problem that's for sure.

In most strategy games I know it's common to use offensive forces for defense because that allows to go out on the map and increase your economy while forcing the enemy to stay on his, generating advantage over time.


Yes, you basically apply pressure to acquire some map control while powering up at home. But these moves are often predictable and already "metagame-ish". In a sense, both players are content with this situation most of the time because, in Sc2 for instance, of asymmetrical balance: Stalker+zealot pushes out marines back home, Marauder+CC pushes back Stalkers back, Hellions can control the map against Zerg for some time etc.

Even in dota if you see SD/Lesh/Sky you have no other option but to expect mid smoke ganks and alike.
The king, the priest, the rich man—who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey?
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