On October 16 2014 22:14 ZodaSoda wrote: Something that bothers me greatly about this debate is when you look at the demographic of Gamers, they still are massively male
That is just not true. Please don't say things that aren't true like they are true, it is aggravating.
Sorry but that is plain bullshit, the resources used for the links you posted are skewed and place anyone whos ever picked up an iPhone app for 20 minutes as a gamer, and that just isn't so, especially when we are discussing gaming culture with Console and PC games in mind, Men are the dominant audience for the games we are talking about, for you to use facebook games and those skewed statistics is a huge problem as to why people still dont get that companies like Blizzard or EA or Rockstar mainly cater towards Men, as much as you want to believe different, people who play Facebook games or iPhone apps are not gamers hell even if they play a ton of Angry Birds or Candy Crush, they still are not the gamers we are discussing when we are talking about games like Bayonetta or Zelda, they are 2 very disconnected groups, even the game developers are disconnected in these groups, the most Casual game blizzard has made is Hearthstone, and it is still male dominated at its core, it's aggravating when you try to call my mother a gamer based on those links and she will tell you are delusional...
play close attention the first half of what she says...
Alright, so you're saying use of the game types that I specifically address in my original post don't qualify as games in your opinion.
That's fine.
Could you please define what qualifies someone as a game player, including what games are "valid" and what what frequency they have to play these games to be considered?
And please reread these two paragraphs from my original post:
On October 16 2014 11:29 Riku wrote: I do believe that many games are intended to be played by both genders equally, but there has previously been a lack of compelling games developed with women as the intended audience, at least in the US. This led to the development of two sets of games, one which appeals mainly to just men and one which appeals to both genders. While some modern games try to be part of that elusive third category of women targeted games, the lack of such games earlier in the rise of the popularity of gaming has led most of these efforts to be focused on more accessible game platforms, such as Facebook and mobile. These platforms are not always regarded well by those who have been invested longer as consumers of the game industry. In fact, the term "casual" is often used in reference to these games, platforms and even those who are deemed "unfit" to consider themselves "true gamers."
To those outside this strange community, it may seem confusing why the term "casual" would be considered derogatory in regards to what most would consider a casual activity. Gaming is, however, very often considered an enthusiast's activity within the community; PC builds are discussed as fervently as much as some talk about car modifications, varying opinions of game play and opposing faction alliances are debated just as passionately as politics and religion, and the knowledge, experience and time dedicated to be able to wear that "gamer" badge is held as a bragging right. Thus, the influx of games and game players who do not uphold these same values, but are being grouped in the same category as these "hardcore gamers", has caused some of these "gamers" to lash out and protect what they see as their community and their honor. The unfortunate side effects of this are criticism of games which do not fit in their mold, attacks on people who challenge these definitions of "gamers", and protecting the exclusivity of their group with harsh words, threats and challenges to those who try to join.
It's not a matter of definition, this is where your debate loses validity to people who are traditional gamers, the problem is when you have these people saying the world largest gaming demographic is adult women, and then telling us because the worlds largest gaming demographic is adult women, we have to change the way we make out PC and Console games for these women, who dont own any of these games they want us to change, do you really not see the disconnection here?
Pardon? No, I never said anyone had to change the way anyone makes games or that anyone. When did I say that? Could you point out where "my debate" ever says anything along those lines at all?
Needless, it's not to say all women only play mobile games, so your whole they "dont own any of these games" point is absolutely absurd. There is clearly a sizable population of female gamers, from every game from FFXIV to Halo.
Seriously, though, if you want to debate with me, I'd really appreciate you debating things that I have actually said. This whole strawman setup is rather annoying.
On October 16 2014 11:29 Riku wrote: Pardon? No, I never said anyone had to change the way anyone makes games or that anyone. When did I say that? Could you point out where "my debate" ever says anything along those lines at all?
The whole idea of this debate is based around the idea of changing the status quo, women are not discriminated against in the gaming industry, as you have well pointed out yourself there have been women working on games for many years, so its not about that, casual discrimination in online games and communities then? well that happens everywhere even outside of games, so why the discussion on games? unless you think games make people misogynist, i hope not...
On October 16 2014 11:29 Riku wrote: Needless, it's not to say all women only play mobile games, so your whole they "dont own any of these games" point is absolutely absurd. There is clearly a sizable population of female gamers, from every game from FFXIV to Halo.
On October 16 2014 11:29 Riku wrote: Seriously, though, if you want to debate with me, I'd really appreciate you debating things that I have actually said. This whole strawman setup is rather annoying.
Again you miss the point, Sure women play FFXIV to Halo, but are they the main demographic? no, they are not, I watch and enjoy Romantic Comedies with my girlfriend sometimes, but am i their main demographic? nope. That argument is a strawman, you know if you really wanna go there...
my mom really likes Pogo and EA does a nice job of milking every possible dime out of her. unfortunately, her budget for games is about $20/year. but , EA has done a nice job of getting that money out of her.
if u want to make PC games aimed at teh adult female audience then make them. its at this stage where it really helps to be able to do the hermit code warrior thing to get your product finished.
my first game was a baseball stats simulator game where players could call the signals for the pitcher and on offense the 3rd base coach could tell the hitter whether to "take for sure", "hit away" , "hit and run" or "bunt".
the inspiration for my game was the board game "Charlie Brown's AllStars".
i only made about $8,000 off of sales. the fun of making the game was more important than the money i made.
not much to discuss... just starting making games.
On October 17 2014 10:04 ZodaSoda wrote: The whole idea of this debate is based around the idea of changing the status quo, women are not discriminated against in the gaming industry, as you have well pointed out yourself there have been women working on games for many years, so its not about that, casual discrimination in online games and communities then? well that happens everywhere even outside of games, so why the discussion on games? unless you think games make people misogynist, i hope not...
Right, I never said they were discriminated against in the game industry (that's a whole other debate). The only thing I have said is that I've been harassed and threatened more then the norm, most likely, due to my gender.
Games are my life, pretty much literally. My pass times are usually games, my friends are game developers and I work on games for a living. Thus, games and treatment of women in game communities, being a woman myself, is important to me.
Also, I am not really just talking about "casual discrimination", I am talking about death threats and rape threats and people getting emailed photos of their front door. This isn't a "Oh, no, I get picked on more because gamers don't like that I have boobs" (which, in fact, is true online in general: http://pdf.aminer.org/000/161/833/assessing_the_attack_threat_due_to_irc_channels.pdf ), this is a "There is a serious issue right now with absurd levels of harassment and threats in the game community right now."
On October 17 2014 10:04 ZodaSoda wrote: Again you miss the point, Sure women play FFXIV to Halo, but are they the main demographic? no, they are not, I watch and enjoy Romantic Comedies with my girlfriend sometimes, but am i their main demographic? nope. That argument is a strawman, you know if you really wanna go there...
That's not what a strawman argument means.
Also, I never said they were the main demographic.
Seriously, you are trying to debate things I haven't said. I'm not sure how I am supposed to respond, it's not like I can have much of a discussion with you right now. You are kind of being Clint Eastwood talking to the Obama chair.
On October 17 2014 10:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: my mom really likes Pogo and EA does a nice job of milking every possible dime out of her. unfortunately, her budget for games is about $20/year. but , EA has done a nice job of getting that money out of her.
if u want to make PC games aimed at teh adult female audience then make them. its at this stage where it really helps to be able to do the hermit code warrior thing to get your product finished.
my first game was a baseball stats simulator game where players could call the signals for the pitcher and on offense the 3rd base coach could tell the hitter whether to "take for sure", "hit away" , "hit and run" or "bunt".
the inspiration for my game was the board game "Charlie Brown's AllStars".
i only made about $8,000 off of sales. the fun of making the game was more important than the money i made.
not much to discuss... just starting making games.
as long as you're having fun... who cares
Come on now.. POGO?! Raynor..that is a generational preference not a gender preference..nice try .. POGO ROFLMAO Leave your mom alone..and you need to be paying her POGO bill for her!
On October 16 2014 15:59 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: This rift between males and females in video games is an old story, but one that is re-told with a new spin.
according to Rob Pardo its not a simple straightforward analogy. according to Pardo Blizz doesn't get the quantity and quality of candidiates stepping forward to work for them.
based upong my experience in software engineering and software project management. i agree to Mr. Pardo.
were there females in my electrical engineering and software engineering courses? sure there were.
all the loner code warriors were male... a thoroughly voluntary position any one can choose to take. and when the gaming industry began you needed guys like Bob Fitch willing to do just that to get products out the door.
every software project i've worked on that was in trouble and required someone to pull an SC1 Bob Fitch rescue mission. it was a guy that locked himself in a room and only came out for food and water for 6 weeks that saved the project. i've never seen a female step forward to do it despite working with many dozens of female employees. its always a guy. and it is a voluntary position... no one wants to do it...
at the cutting edge of every new segment of the software engineering profession is the loner code warrior. the new entrepreunerial company does not exist without this animal in the employee ecosystem.
this is a reason men dominate the software engineeering aspect of the gaming industry. all important decisions about game design revolve around the core engine driving the game.
its not a simple matter of "men think women are incompetent" and trying to superimpose this template in the area of software engineering is an off base overgeneralized white-wash.
Doesn't this go back to the fact that women are vastly underrepresented in engineering in general? Culturally there is still a large lag in between how we say the world should be and how it actually is. Girls still are pushed away from STEM fields and you can find plenty of examples of the struggles those who enter these male dominated fields face, even at higher education levels. From my own experience (the forensic sciences) the various stem fields are absolutely dominated by men. Specifically in my own field (Forensic Anthropology) the section is dominated by an older, heavily male demographic that no one really wants to challenge when it comes to change because of the power they have on career advancement. What is encouraging is that the younger generation of Forensic Anthropologists have a very much increased female presence that is actually starting to become the majority (I know under my adviser out of 7 grad students only 1 is male and the ratio was even more skewed at the school I got my MA at). The other STEM fields in the forensic sciences do not even have that and in fact at the annual forensic meetings, those in other sections will basically say to a female "Oh your an anthropologist" because the ratios are so imbalanced except in the Anth section. It is one of the reasons there recently have been efforts to encourage girls to keep interest in the sciences. They just were not encouraged and influenced at a younger age to do so. This "men are the scientists" attitude has actively hampered female interest in the sciences. Its only been relatively recently in the media where you have a fair amount of depictions of women in STEM fields.
I almost wish you'd have made this two separate blogs(I mean you still could). It feels like your first few paragraphs were a setup for your personal story, which is a unique perspective and interesting read on its own, and I'm glad you shared it, especially in the context of your last blog about becoming a developer.
That said, they also make for the basis of a post about that which I believe Zoda is actually posting about, which is one of the reasons I think he responded to 'the debate' as a sort of meta-topic of this thread(and replies to you inside of it), and not your post and points you made in it specifically(thus his lack of directly quoting you at first, and thus why you two are now kind of arguing, even though you seem to agree on quite a bit actually). This is something your perspective as a new, and female, developer is also somewhat unique on, and could probably also be quite interesting.
Either that or maybe I wish you'd have fleshed out the middle part some more, but that would turn this into an essay and not a TL blog post.
The best part about this internet controversy is that it's made it abundantly clear which of the older TL posters are the ones that have absolutely no conception of the reality of what life is like for women on a daily basis. When you look at some of the names that is involved in this so-called gamergate and realize that some of these central voices are also well known racists; when you look at some of these TL posters and see that many of them are fairly well known as straight up misogynists from their posts in recent years, one can only wonder what is actually at stake. What's at stake for these people isn't actually the integrity of gaming journalism or the gaming industry as such, but the ideological fervor of denying structural imbalance. The rhetoric of integrity is just a thin facade used to make their misogyny palatable - Xiphos' recent posts on this topic makes this so transparent and bare, as is Jimmy's posts in this blog; neither are surprising given their posting history on TL.net.
I haven't read the answers, so there might be something that was already mentioned. Just some short points I want to give:
- Duke Nukem 3D "This is not necessarily bad, in my opinion, this simply means that this game was meant to appeal to those who view women as sexually appealing." What about kids who simply like the character and his lines? One element of the game doesn't necessarily mean it was designed to appeal towards this specific group. It's part of being a macho like he is, simple as that. What about games like GTA where there are strip clubs? Those clubs aren't exactly an uncommon thing and fit with being in the underworld. Was it designed exactly the same way?
- "While some modern games try to be part of that elusive third category of women targeted games, the lack of such games earlier in the rise of the popularity of gaming has led most of these efforts to be focused on more accessible game platforms, such as Facebook and mobile." You mean games like Sims? Also, what constitutes a game targeted towards women? Pink unicorns that are happily running around? Cooking games? Seems more like you think that most women like A and most men like B. However, it's not like that. Games that also appealed to women were the likes of Anno, Settlers, Black & White, heck, all those economy games back in the mid to late nineties...unless you want to say economy isn't for women. These days, you have free to play MMOs which appeal to women because you can customize your character and apparently according to you, women would like to style their characters, right? Honestly, I think it's a joke. Women and girls have been around forever. We had some on LAN parties, I met several ones who played Red Alert 2 competitively or Quake 3: Arena and even the girl who sat next to me in English classes played Call of Duty 2. The only problem is society and people like you who say A fits to X and B to Y. Boys play with lego, girls with stuffed animals or barbies. I have experienced a different side and I think what hold girls back were their parents and society that told them that playing games is wrong or not for them.
- "My worst experiences, however, revolve around a group of guys who played an MMO on the same server as me. When I was chatting freely in one of the channels, I was told to "go back to the kitchen" by one of them. I retorted and an argument broke out between us, with insults being slung both ways, though all of the ones I received were base on my gender, appearance and worth as a female. While such a confrontation seemed relatively minor, it persisted and grew from them harassing me within the game and on the forums to threats of violence. I received phone calls from that left voicemails threatening me with violence and sexual assault." What does that first sentence imply? How did they know you were a girl? "Chatting freely", eh? I've played many MMOs and sunk so many hours into them but I have never ever ecountered something like that. And there were always female players around (either confirmed or unconfirmed). They never had any problems, maybe simply because they weren't going around shouting: "I'm a girl, look at me."? Gender isn't an issue im MMOs unless you try to exploit it or have really bad luck and join a terrible guild which would be the player's fault then because you normally don't just join a random one. So, how did you receive phone calls? Normally, other people don't just get yours unless you either give it to them or post it for the world to see. In both cases, it would be idiocy.
Lastly, I don't think someone who posts nude pictures of himself online for everyone to see is fit to talk about such a topic.
On October 17 2014 16:59 koreasilver wrote: The best part about this internet controversy is that it's made it abundantly clear which of the older TL posters are the ones that have absolutely no conception of the reality of what life is like for women on a daily basis. When you look at some of the names that is involved in this so-called gamergate and realize that some of these central voices are also well known racists; when you look at some of these TL posters and see that many of them are fairly well known as straight up misogynists from their posts in recent years, one can only wonder what is actually at stake. What's at stake for these people isn't actually the integrity of gaming journalism or the gaming industry as such, but the ideological fervor of denying structural imbalance.
I understood all your name calling up until the bolded part. The ideological fervor of denying structural imbalance? are you trying to call people dogmatic failed architects?
On October 16 2014 15:59 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: This rift between males and females in video games is an old story, but one that is re-told with a new spin.
according to Rob Pardo its not a simple straightforward analogy. according to Pardo Blizz doesn't get the quantity and quality of candidiates stepping forward to work for them.
based upong my experience in software engineering and software project management. i agree to Mr. Pardo.
were there females in my electrical engineering and software engineering courses? sure there were.
all the loner code warriors were male... a thoroughly voluntary position any one can choose to take. and when the gaming industry began you needed guys like Bob Fitch willing to do just that to get products out the door.
every software project i've worked on that was in trouble and required someone to pull an SC1 Bob Fitch rescue mission. it was a guy that locked himself in a room and only came out for food and water for 6 weeks that saved the project. i've never seen a female step forward to do it despite working with many dozens of female employees. its always a guy. and it is a voluntary position... no one wants to do it...
at the cutting edge of every new segment of the software engineering profession is the loner code warrior. the new entrepreunerial company does not exist without this animal in the employee ecosystem.
this is a reason men dominate the software engineeering aspect of the gaming industry. all important decisions about game design revolve around the core engine driving the game.
its not a simple matter of "men think women are incompetent" and trying to superimpose this template in the area of software engineering is an off base overgeneralized white-wash.
Doesn't this go back to the fact that women are vastly underrepresented in engineering in general? Culturally there is still a large lag in between how we say the world should be and how it actually is. Girls still are pushed away from STEM fields and you can find plenty of examples of the struggles those who enter these male dominated fields face, even at higher education levels. From my own experience (the forensic sciences) the various stem fields are absolutely dominated by men. Specifically in my own field (Forensic Anthropology) the section is dominated by an older, heavily male demographic that no one really wants to challenge when it comes to change because of the power they have on career advancement. What is encouraging is that the younger generation of Forensic Anthropologists have a very much increased female presence that is actually starting to become the majority (I know under my adviser out of 7 grad students only 1 is male and the ratio was even more skewed at the school I got my MA at). The other STEM fields in the forensic sciences do not even have that and in fact at the annual forensic meetings, those in other sections will basically say to a female "Oh your an anthropologist" because the ratios are so imbalanced except in the Anth section. It is one of the reasons there recently have been efforts to encourage girls to keep interest in the sciences. They just were not encouraged and influenced at a younger age to do so. This "men are the scientists" attitude has actively hampered female interest in the sciences. Its only been relatively recently in the media where you have a fair amount of depictions of women in STEM fields.
Zealot Hockey was made by 2 guys in a month; neither of them part of the engineering profession. if you like making games just starting making them. or make an add-on tool like GameHeart... another one MAN project.
no one would hire me to make games... so i just started making games myself. i didn't make a lot of money, but i had a great time.
you want to enter a new field of work? quit yapping and DO something.
It's good to gear that, despite all the shit you've dealt with in the gaming community, that you've stuck around and even decided to make your own game. I hope that it goes well for you!
On October 17 2014 15:22 red_ wrote: I almost wish you'd have made this two separate blogs(I mean you still could). It feels like your first few paragraphs were a setup for your personal story, which is a unique perspective and interesting read on its own, and I'm glad you shared it, especially in the context of your last blog about becoming a developer.
I might do another blog on that subject. It's definitely a bit of a more touchy one.
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: - Duke Nukem 3D "This is not necessarily bad, in my opinion, this simply means that this game was meant to appeal to those who view women as sexually appealing." What about kids who simply like the character and his lines? One element of the game doesn't necessarily mean it was designed to appeal towards this specific group. It's part of being a macho like he is, simple as that. What about games like GTA where there are strip clubs? Those clubs aren't exactly an uncommon thing and fit with being in the underworld. Was it designed exactly the same way?
...what? I would say that both GTA and Duke Nukem are targeted towards male audiences. It's not bad, it just is. You are free to disagree with me.
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: - "While some modern games try to be part of that elusive third category of women targeted games, the lack of such games earlier in the rise of the popularity of gaming has led most of these efforts to be focused on more accessible game platforms, such as Facebook and mobile." You mean games like Sims? Also, what constitutes a game targeted towards women? Pink unicorns that are happily running around? Cooking games? Seems more like you think that most women like A and most men like B. However, it's not like that. Games that also appealed to women were the likes of Anno, Settlers, Black & White, heck, all those economy games back in the mid to late nineties...unless you want to say economy isn't for women. These days, you have free to play MMOs which appeal to women because you can customize your character and apparently according to you, women would like to style their characters, right? Honestly, I think it's a joke. Women and girls have been around forever. We had some on LAN parties, I met several ones who played Red Alert 2 competitively or Quake 3: Arena and even the girl who sat next to me in English classes played Call of Duty 2. The only problem is society and people like you who say A fits to X and B to Y. Boys play with lego, girls with stuffed animals or barbies. I have experienced a different side and I think what hold girls back were their parents and society that told them that playing games is wrong or not for them.
A game targeted towards women would have things which appeal to women. Sure, pink unicorns may appeal to women more than men, but so does a lot of other things, particularly having relate-able characters.
And, yeah, I know women have been around games forever, I was making that argument earlier and I've been around them myself (obviously).
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: - "My worst experiences, however, revolve around a group of guys who played an MMO on the same server as me. When I was chatting freely in one of the channels, I was told to "go back to the kitchen" by one of them. I retorted and an argument broke out between us, with insults being slung both ways, though all of the ones I received were base on my gender, appearance and worth as a female. While such a confrontation seemed relatively minor, it persisted and grew from them harassing me within the game and on the forums to threats of violence. I received phone calls from that left voicemails threatening me with violence and sexual assault." What does that first sentence imply? How did they know you were a girl? "Chatting freely", eh? I've played many MMOs and sunk so many hours into them but I have never ever ecountered something like that. And there were always female players around (either confirmed or unconfirmed). They never had any problems, maybe simply because they weren't going around shouting: "I'm a girl, look at me."? Gender isn't an issue im MMOs unless you try to exploit it or have really bad luck and join a terrible guild which would be the player's fault then because you normally don't just join a random one. So, how did you receive phone calls? Normally, other people don't just get yours unless you either give it to them or post it for the world to see. In both cases, it would be idiocy.
Yeah, chatting freely and I mentioned that my boyfriend, because he was going to help me run a dungeon when he got back from work when someone asked me when I was running it that week. Whoop-de-fucking-do.
And I don't know how they got my number. It wasn't posted anywhere publicly.
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: Lastly, I don't think someone who posts nude pictures of himself online for everyone to see is fit to talk about such a topic.
Oh, good, because I don't conform to your social standards, I don't deserve to express my opinion on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT? Yeah, cry me a river.
On October 17 2014 21:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: you want to enter a new field of work? quit yapping and DO something.
That's pretty much what all of these awesome women in the industry have done. Also, never tell people to "quit yapping" or anything else along the lines of "shut up", it's just in poor taste.
On October 18 2014 00:15 Parametric wrote: A riku blog without cosplay pictures =( Edit: how'd all those mean people get your contact info?
No clue. I'm guessing they bullshitted to a guildmate or a friend to get my number.
On October 18 2014 06:22 goiflin wrote: It's good to gear that, despite all the shit you've dealt with in the gaming community, that you've stuck around and even decided to make your own game. I hope that it goes well for you!
Games are my love and joy! Not going to let a few assholes take that way from me :D
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: - Duke Nukem 3D "This is not necessarily bad, in my opinion, this simply means that this game was meant to appeal to those who view women as sexually appealing." What about kids who simply like the character and his lines? One element of the game doesn't necessarily mean it was designed to appeal towards this specific group. It's part of being a macho like he is, simple as that. What about games like GTA where there are strip clubs? Those clubs aren't exactly an uncommon thing and fit with being in the underworld. Was it designed exactly the same way?
...what? I would say that both GTA and Duke Nukem are targeted towards male audiences. It's not bad, it just is. You are free to disagree with me.
Look at what I quoted from you and look at what you just wrote. See the difference?
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: - "While some modern games try to be part of that elusive third category of women targeted games, the lack of such games earlier in the rise of the popularity of gaming has led most of these efforts to be focused on more accessible game platforms, such as Facebook and mobile." You mean games like Sims? Also, what constitutes a game targeted towards women? Pink unicorns that are happily running around? Cooking games? Seems more like you think that most women like A and most men like B. However, it's not like that. Games that also appealed to women were the likes of Anno, Settlers, Black & White, heck, all those economy games back in the mid to late nineties...unless you want to say economy isn't for women. These days, you have free to play MMOs which appeal to women because you can customize your character and apparently according to you, women would like to style their characters, right? Honestly, I think it's a joke. Women and girls have been around forever. We had some on LAN parties, I met several ones who played Red Alert 2 competitively or Quake 3: Arena and even the girl who sat next to me in English classes played Call of Duty 2. The only problem is society and people like you who say A fits to X and B to Y. Boys play with lego, girls with stuffed animals or barbies. I have experienced a different side and I think what hold girls back were their parents and society that told them that playing games is wrong or not for them.
A game targeted towards women would have things which appeal to women. Sure, pink unicorns may appeal to women more than men, but so does a lot of other things, particularly having relate-able characters.
And, yeah, I know women have been around games forever, I was making that argument earlier and I've been around them myself (obviously).
Well, you obviously didn't get what I wrote or even considered it. I actually want to write RPGs but then again, considering that you ignored the two major points I made, I don't even want to bother anymore.
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: - "My worst experiences, however, revolve around a group of guys who played an MMO on the same server as me. When I was chatting freely in one of the channels, I was told to "go back to the kitchen" by one of them. I retorted and an argument broke out between us, with insults being slung both ways, though all of the ones I received were base on my gender, appearance and worth as a female. While such a confrontation seemed relatively minor, it persisted and grew from them harassing me within the game and on the forums to threats of violence. I received phone calls from that left voicemails threatening me with violence and sexual assault." What does that first sentence imply? How did they know you were a girl? "Chatting freely", eh? I've played many MMOs and sunk so many hours into them but I have never ever ecountered something like that. And there were always female players around (either confirmed or unconfirmed). They never had any problems, maybe simply because they weren't going around shouting: "I'm a girl, look at me."? Gender isn't an issue im MMOs unless you try to exploit it or have really bad luck and join a terrible guild which would be the player's fault then because you normally don't just join a random one. So, how did you receive phone calls? Normally, other people don't just get yours unless you either give it to them or post it for the world to see. In both cases, it would be idiocy.
Yeah, chatting freely and I mentioned that my boyfriend, because he was going to help me run a dungeon when he got back from work when someone asked me when I was running it that week. Whoop-de-fucking-do.
And I don't know how they got my number. It wasn't posted anywhere publicly.
"Well, my boyfriend is running it with me this week. He will be back from work soon." "Go back to the kitchen." That sure is reason enough for an argument to break out. There are always two sides to a coin. Arguments can, technically, start from one side but the other has to play along with it.
If you told 50 people in the game, that would be the same. It's your phone number, so unless you share it, no one will know. It couldn't be easier.
On October 17 2014 18:00 Lucumo wrote: Lastly, I don't think someone who posts nude pictures of himself online for everyone to see is fit to talk about such a topic.
Oh, good, because I don't conform to your social standards, I don't deserve to express my opinion on a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT? Yeah, cry me a river.
You mean because you have no integrity, you aren't allowed to expess your opinion? You are free to express it and everyone deserves that but it holds no value at all. Also, since you created this blog post, it's actually you crying a river, not me. One can't have it both ways, the world doesn't work like that.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t7wL26o.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JsnIzSi.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yyF81ID.jpg)
