• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:26
CET 15:26
KST 23:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion6Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 105
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Video Footage from 2005: The Birth of G2 in Spain [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1488 users

GoHS #2 - VG and the Deathball [TI4 Spoilers]

Blogs > jitte
Post a Reply
jitte
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
21 Posts
August 03 2014 20:38 GMT
#1
Gem of Hindsight #2: VG and the Deathball

* The New Meta Deathball

Before the finals, VG had 8 sub-20min GGs from their deathball push style. 5 of these were in the group stages, and even in the playoffs where teams should definitely have been prepared against this strat, VG still rolled over them in no time. The only team which had success was NewBee, but even then they still dropped one game in the finals in 24 min.

VG brings pushing to the next level. In the previous year, we have seen many teams get a quick T1 tower on the enemy's offlane. This is usually done by having a Chen/Enchantress, rotating in either the mid or offlaner and picking off the enemy offlane, followed by a 4-5 man push on the tower with summons, a Basilus and other auras. Teams will usually be content after getting the tower and disperse. However, in VG's case, their judgement of their pushing power allows them to take multiple towers, be it the following T2 tower or a T1 tower in another lane, and sometimes both.

It may be unfair to say that VG purely play for the early game push. It may be that their comfort zone is with getting early towers and that with the gold earned, they snowball out of control, leading to the deathball. Nevertheless, we look specifically at how VG built their draft which led to so many early GGs.

* The Deathball Draft

When we think of Dendi, we picture an aggressive mid, finding and poking openings to break the enemy's formation, through which he controls the tempo. We picture heroes such as TA or Storm. For Mushi, his unparalleled 1v1 wins the mid lane through outskilling the enemy mid and with early Lvl 6 rotations leads to a strong snowball tempo. His signature heroes would be QOP and SF. For S4, he plays heroes with teamfight-winning utlimates around which Alliance builds their tempo, with heroes such as Puck and Magnus.

On the other hand, Super's style is characterised by strong pressure, not through gangs or teamfights but by his presence in the push. By him being there, the enemy team does not want to engage in a teamfight. His signature heroes of Viper, DP and Razor are all able to consistently poke at the enemy with low cooldown long range nukes (strong slow orb in Viper's case), be extremely tanky early in the game with a Bottle, Magic Wand and Buckler/Meka and have the ability to make the enemy think twice about engaging (Corrosive Skin and Viper Strike, Unstable Current and Eye of the Storm or Exorcism). When the enemy team does not want to engage against a push, all they can do is sit behind their tower and hope a positional mistake or over-aggressive dive provides an opportunity for a counter. VG unfortunately doesn't give them that chance.

Super's mid role is complemented by VG's support duo, fy and Fenrir. The emphasis is on supports which have high impact in the early levels. Unlike other greedier teams, they forgo their EXP in exchange for getting good starts for their cores. For example, fy's Sand King is always active on the map instead of jungling for an 8 minute Blink. Other players on Sand King might rush the Blink straight after Brown Boots but fy will go for Arcane Boots as his team's pushing lineup needs it.

VG aren't worried about the low levels on their supports. As long as their cores are farmed and the enemy cores are suppressed with constant pressure, the deathball push will be unstoppable. This is done through supports always roaming, making the enemies play defensive by just being constantly missing from the map and forcing unfavourable TP rotations which result in another lane left defenseless to an incoming push.

In VG vs Liquid, Fy and Fenrir both Lvl 1 at 4 minutes in. The push is nevertheless uncontested. The enemy offlane tower is taken at 6 min 30 seconds with Leshrac's Lvl 2 Edict, followed by the enemy safelane at 8 min. Another is VG vs DK with Fenrir Lvl 1 at 8 minutes, but a Shadow Demon with only Disruption already has so much utility for the team.

The support duo is usually features 2 high burst supports, typically with one or both having targeted and undodgeable disable skills, and the other a followup nuke to guarantee a kill. We see combos such as the age-old Leshrac + Shadow Demon, Sand King/Earthshaker + the new meta Skywrath or the top support pick Rhasta + anyone.

The second core on the team is rOtK. Usually the offlaner, his heroes are usually have strong teamfight, such as Doom, Tidehunter and Venomancer. rOtK's playstyle has definitely changed coming into VG. In the past, we remember rOtK as the offlaner with the crazy aggressive gambles, diving past T1 towers for a low-percentage kill and miraculously coming out ahead. But now, he plays the stable offlaner, getting his farm and levels.

The last core, on the carry role, is Sylar. Sylar's heroes are those carries strong in the early game and midgame, able to solo against an offlaner and have some burst or disable to pick off the offlaner together with the supports. These are heroes like Morph, the TI2 deathballer Luna, the tower-destroyer and extremely strong 1v1er Lone Druid and another strong 1v1er Weaver.

Sylar also plays a No. 1 Nature's Prophet. Furion is extremely strong in the push lineup due to his ability to TP across the map, summon Treants and suplement the other lanes with a push. Putting him in the No. 1 role allows him to get a quick Orchid which completely shuts down enemy cores so early on. This allows VG to burst down heroes like Brewmaster, who are usually extremely hard to kill in the midgame and also to stop enemy initiation from heroes like Void with his scarily quick reactions. One of his fastest is at 9 min (EG vs VG game 1), and that's with Phase Boots first. VG also puts him in a solo safe or off lane, allowing them to run aggressive trilane strats. We see with Furion, VG runs Pugna trilanes, and even one with Venomancer.

To round up, the draft usually consists of 2-3 heroes who can be classified as tower pushers who can do considerable damage to towers during a push. These include midlaners like Death Prophet and Dragon Knight, supports like Leshrac and Rhasta, carries like Luna and Pugna and offlaners like Venomancer and Furion. Every role is able to add to the pushing power, making the lineup extremely flexible.

* NewBee's Counter

NewBee had 2 days to prepare for the other finals contender. Of all the possible teams, VG was probably the one they were most prepared to play against, seeing as they had just won them off the WB semifinals and that they were extremely comfortable with this meta of aggressive push, even when done at VG's level.

In all 4 games of the finals, NewBee's first 2 bans are always Death Prophet and Razor, fearing Super's potential on those heroes. They aim to push Super out of his comfort zone and force him into an unfavourable matchup in the mid lane. This was made easier by rOtK leaving Super's pick to later in the draft. Only in Game 1 did VG pick Brewmaster in the first pick phase, forcing NewBee to react rather than VG having to.

NewBee's 2 counterpick heroes which they used in 3 of the games would be Ancient Apparition and Alchemist.

AA at Lvl 6 can easily shutdown a push with his ultimate, forcing the enemy back for 7 seconds while they wait for the buff to wear off or sniping a target with a combination of long range nukes. However, reaching Lvl 6 is an issue for a support with no hard lockdown, limiting his ganking and early teamfight potential.

Alchemist, too, easily disperses a push with Acid Spray, and more importantly, he doesn't need Lvl 6. With a huge AOE covering the entire lane, Acid Spray melts the enemy creep wave and any summons. It forces the enemy team to keep away from the tower for fear of the minus armor and DoT. Game 3 is where this strategy shines. xiao8 is placed in the safe lane against a solo Venomancer while Hao's Weaver is put against the trilane. Trading levels and farm with rOtK, xiao8 reaches an early Lvl 4 and gets his Soul Ring. When the push comes at 4 minutes in, xiao8 rotates to the offlane and the low level trilane is unable to fight through the acid and get the early tower.

We also see their Rhasta + Chen combo in Game 3, which they also used in the WB semifinals. Chen gets his levels from the jungle while Rhasta gets solo support EXP on the lane. Against higher level supports and a large Creep, VG's roaming supports aren't able to be as aggressive and cannot find opportunities for ganks. Chen's creep(s) then allow for a push against the enemy offlane T1, resulting in VG having the first tower falling.

On VG's side, they placed extremely high priority on Furion. This makes their laning more predictable. NewBee can also place a more greedy solo against Furion as there is no threat of him being solo killed. Picking Furion so early on also signals that they intend to go for a push draft, and NewBee can adapt accordingly.

VG's second pick following Furion, were Viper, Venomancer and AA. All of these heroes have zero hard disable. This made NewBee able to pick beefy tanks or extremely mobile heroes which VG could not lockdown or burst. These included Brewmaster, Ember, Puck, Weaver... the list goes on. These heroes are able to break VG's formation and snipe out the weak supports, stopping the push outright. Without any disables on half of the enemy team, NewBee placed higher priority on these heroes in the second phase of the pick.

By focusing so much on getting early towers and winning early fights to gather snowball, VG find themselves lost when NewBee easily stops them with stronger teamfight off Brewmaster/Puck, strong antipush with Alchemist, or facing a stronger enemy push with Chen. Seeing no way of comeback, VG taps out sub-20 min in Game 3 and 4, a victim of their own deathball.

* Conclusion

VG's deathball certainly made its impact in TI4. It seemed as though VG did not come into TI4 with maining the deathball strat in mind. In their earlier games we see them having lategame power with Sylar's Morph. However, with their first sub 20 min win, VG realised the meta wasn't prepared for the deathball.

VG's overemphasis on the push might be their undoing in the finals. It might also be that NewBee and VG both wanted to play for the early game aggression hence the competition for similar picks such as Furion or Rhasta, ultimately leading to VG picking for their push strat.

In the pre-finals interview, rOtK mentioned that he had more strats lined up. Their lategame carry strat typically involves Sylar's Morph together with rOtK's Doom or Super's Ember. NewBee's targeted picks and bans also led to many openings for surprise/pocket strats. These include a Wisp + Tiny, Tinker or Naga, which might catch NewBee totally offguard, providing a swing in momentum.

Will we see more of the deathball? Some viewers might not like the sub 20-min GGs from top teams, but others might like the amount of aggression and stuff happening compared to the ricing era of yesteryear. Only the next patchnotes can tell.

References:
datdota.com
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
August 04 2014 10:02 GMT
#2
VG's downfall is their overemphasis on picking push heroes early. It left them with no backup, as they lack good CC or teamfight heroes, as well as late game core with their early Prophet + Veno picks. I think the games would have been so different if VG went for Doom/Tide FP instead.

But I agree that the DP + Razor bans were very smart.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
August 04 2014 15:01 GMT
#3
The Vici Gaming Deathball only left its mark because teams were so greedy with their initial support picks and Evil Genius managed to fall to twice in a single best-of-three.

Vici Gaming strategic range is limited to Deathball and 4p1, but are really well practiced in both strategies. If teams guarded better against the deathball, Vici Gaming would have played 4p1 where they are no stronger than any of the other Chinese teams.

#flowchart
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
jitte
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
21 Posts
August 06 2014 16:31 GMT
#4
On August 04 2014 19:02 DucK- wrote:
VG's downfall is their overemphasis on picking push heroes early. It left them with no backup, as they lack good CC or teamfight heroes, as well as late game core with their early Prophet + Veno picks. I think the games would have been so different if VG went for Doom/Tide FP instead.

But I agree that the DP + Razor bans were very smart.

I think they placed Furion at such a high priority because Sylar's Furion was such a huge factor in winning the bo3 against EG.

On August 05 2014 00:01 TanGeng wrote:
The Vici Gaming Deathball only left its mark because teams were so greedy with their initial support picks and Evil Genius managed to fall to twice in a single best-of-three.

Vici Gaming strategic range is limited to Deathball and 4p1, but are really well practiced in both strategies. If teams guarded better against the deathball, Vici Gaming would have played 4p1 where they are no stronger than any of the other Chinese teams.

#flowchart

Yep I agree about their 2 strats. Firstpick Furion locked them in pretty much.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#70
WardiTV1074
OGKoka 327
Rex138
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 327
Harstem 278
Rex 138
ProTech15
RushiSC 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4104
GuemChi 1507
Horang2 1328
Larva 966
Shuttle 766
ZerO 718
EffOrt 697
Mini 653
Stork 572
BeSt 468
[ Show more ]
Rush 318
Snow 269
firebathero 217
Light 143
Soma 141
hero 122
Hm[arnc] 108
JYJ 97
Pusan 90
Mind 87
Sharp 82
Killer 76
Barracks 57
Aegong 45
Sexy 40
ToSsGirL 33
Nal_rA 24
Terrorterran 21
scan(afreeca) 17
zelot 15
GoRush 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Rock 12
Icarus 10
SilentControl 9
ivOry 6
Dota 2
Gorgc3439
singsing2671
qojqva1515
Dendi457
syndereN99
420jenkins66
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2063
kennyS1788
x6flipin658
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King76
Other Games
B2W.Neo1400
hiko510
crisheroes346
allub335
Pyrionflax297
Fuzer 210
Hui .203
ArmadaUGS63
ZerO(Twitch)23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2251
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 680
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 118
• StrangeGG 68
• naamasc223
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1762
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 34m
OSC
20h 34m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 10h
The PondCast
1d 19h
OSC
1d 20h
Big Brain Bouts
4 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

IPSL Winter 2025-26
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.