• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:33
CET 07:33
KST 15:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Recent recommended BW games ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2026 Changsha Offline Cup [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6637 users

GoHS #2 - VG and the Deathball [TI4 Spoilers]

Blogs > jitte
Post a Reply
jitte
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
21 Posts
August 03 2014 20:38 GMT
#1
Gem of Hindsight #2: VG and the Deathball

* The New Meta Deathball

Before the finals, VG had 8 sub-20min GGs from their deathball push style. 5 of these were in the group stages, and even in the playoffs where teams should definitely have been prepared against this strat, VG still rolled over them in no time. The only team which had success was NewBee, but even then they still dropped one game in the finals in 24 min.

VG brings pushing to the next level. In the previous year, we have seen many teams get a quick T1 tower on the enemy's offlane. This is usually done by having a Chen/Enchantress, rotating in either the mid or offlaner and picking off the enemy offlane, followed by a 4-5 man push on the tower with summons, a Basilus and other auras. Teams will usually be content after getting the tower and disperse. However, in VG's case, their judgement of their pushing power allows them to take multiple towers, be it the following T2 tower or a T1 tower in another lane, and sometimes both.

It may be unfair to say that VG purely play for the early game push. It may be that their comfort zone is with getting early towers and that with the gold earned, they snowball out of control, leading to the deathball. Nevertheless, we look specifically at how VG built their draft which led to so many early GGs.

* The Deathball Draft

When we think of Dendi, we picture an aggressive mid, finding and poking openings to break the enemy's formation, through which he controls the tempo. We picture heroes such as TA or Storm. For Mushi, his unparalleled 1v1 wins the mid lane through outskilling the enemy mid and with early Lvl 6 rotations leads to a strong snowball tempo. His signature heroes would be QOP and SF. For S4, he plays heroes with teamfight-winning utlimates around which Alliance builds their tempo, with heroes such as Puck and Magnus.

On the other hand, Super's style is characterised by strong pressure, not through gangs or teamfights but by his presence in the push. By him being there, the enemy team does not want to engage in a teamfight. His signature heroes of Viper, DP and Razor are all able to consistently poke at the enemy with low cooldown long range nukes (strong slow orb in Viper's case), be extremely tanky early in the game with a Bottle, Magic Wand and Buckler/Meka and have the ability to make the enemy think twice about engaging (Corrosive Skin and Viper Strike, Unstable Current and Eye of the Storm or Exorcism). When the enemy team does not want to engage against a push, all they can do is sit behind their tower and hope a positional mistake or over-aggressive dive provides an opportunity for a counter. VG unfortunately doesn't give them that chance.

Super's mid role is complemented by VG's support duo, fy and Fenrir. The emphasis is on supports which have high impact in the early levels. Unlike other greedier teams, they forgo their EXP in exchange for getting good starts for their cores. For example, fy's Sand King is always active on the map instead of jungling for an 8 minute Blink. Other players on Sand King might rush the Blink straight after Brown Boots but fy will go for Arcane Boots as his team's pushing lineup needs it.

VG aren't worried about the low levels on their supports. As long as their cores are farmed and the enemy cores are suppressed with constant pressure, the deathball push will be unstoppable. This is done through supports always roaming, making the enemies play defensive by just being constantly missing from the map and forcing unfavourable TP rotations which result in another lane left defenseless to an incoming push.

In VG vs Liquid, Fy and Fenrir both Lvl 1 at 4 minutes in. The push is nevertheless uncontested. The enemy offlane tower is taken at 6 min 30 seconds with Leshrac's Lvl 2 Edict, followed by the enemy safelane at 8 min. Another is VG vs DK with Fenrir Lvl 1 at 8 minutes, but a Shadow Demon with only Disruption already has so much utility for the team.

The support duo is usually features 2 high burst supports, typically with one or both having targeted and undodgeable disable skills, and the other a followup nuke to guarantee a kill. We see combos such as the age-old Leshrac + Shadow Demon, Sand King/Earthshaker + the new meta Skywrath or the top support pick Rhasta + anyone.

The second core on the team is rOtK. Usually the offlaner, his heroes are usually have strong teamfight, such as Doom, Tidehunter and Venomancer. rOtK's playstyle has definitely changed coming into VG. In the past, we remember rOtK as the offlaner with the crazy aggressive gambles, diving past T1 towers for a low-percentage kill and miraculously coming out ahead. But now, he plays the stable offlaner, getting his farm and levels.

The last core, on the carry role, is Sylar. Sylar's heroes are those carries strong in the early game and midgame, able to solo against an offlaner and have some burst or disable to pick off the offlaner together with the supports. These are heroes like Morph, the TI2 deathballer Luna, the tower-destroyer and extremely strong 1v1er Lone Druid and another strong 1v1er Weaver.

Sylar also plays a No. 1 Nature's Prophet. Furion is extremely strong in the push lineup due to his ability to TP across the map, summon Treants and suplement the other lanes with a push. Putting him in the No. 1 role allows him to get a quick Orchid which completely shuts down enemy cores so early on. This allows VG to burst down heroes like Brewmaster, who are usually extremely hard to kill in the midgame and also to stop enemy initiation from heroes like Void with his scarily quick reactions. One of his fastest is at 9 min (EG vs VG game 1), and that's with Phase Boots first. VG also puts him in a solo safe or off lane, allowing them to run aggressive trilane strats. We see with Furion, VG runs Pugna trilanes, and even one with Venomancer.

To round up, the draft usually consists of 2-3 heroes who can be classified as tower pushers who can do considerable damage to towers during a push. These include midlaners like Death Prophet and Dragon Knight, supports like Leshrac and Rhasta, carries like Luna and Pugna and offlaners like Venomancer and Furion. Every role is able to add to the pushing power, making the lineup extremely flexible.

* NewBee's Counter

NewBee had 2 days to prepare for the other finals contender. Of all the possible teams, VG was probably the one they were most prepared to play against, seeing as they had just won them off the WB semifinals and that they were extremely comfortable with this meta of aggressive push, even when done at VG's level.

In all 4 games of the finals, NewBee's first 2 bans are always Death Prophet and Razor, fearing Super's potential on those heroes. They aim to push Super out of his comfort zone and force him into an unfavourable matchup in the mid lane. This was made easier by rOtK leaving Super's pick to later in the draft. Only in Game 1 did VG pick Brewmaster in the first pick phase, forcing NewBee to react rather than VG having to.

NewBee's 2 counterpick heroes which they used in 3 of the games would be Ancient Apparition and Alchemist.

AA at Lvl 6 can easily shutdown a push with his ultimate, forcing the enemy back for 7 seconds while they wait for the buff to wear off or sniping a target with a combination of long range nukes. However, reaching Lvl 6 is an issue for a support with no hard lockdown, limiting his ganking and early teamfight potential.

Alchemist, too, easily disperses a push with Acid Spray, and more importantly, he doesn't need Lvl 6. With a huge AOE covering the entire lane, Acid Spray melts the enemy creep wave and any summons. It forces the enemy team to keep away from the tower for fear of the minus armor and DoT. Game 3 is where this strategy shines. xiao8 is placed in the safe lane against a solo Venomancer while Hao's Weaver is put against the trilane. Trading levels and farm with rOtK, xiao8 reaches an early Lvl 4 and gets his Soul Ring. When the push comes at 4 minutes in, xiao8 rotates to the offlane and the low level trilane is unable to fight through the acid and get the early tower.

We also see their Rhasta + Chen combo in Game 3, which they also used in the WB semifinals. Chen gets his levels from the jungle while Rhasta gets solo support EXP on the lane. Against higher level supports and a large Creep, VG's roaming supports aren't able to be as aggressive and cannot find opportunities for ganks. Chen's creep(s) then allow for a push against the enemy offlane T1, resulting in VG having the first tower falling.

On VG's side, they placed extremely high priority on Furion. This makes their laning more predictable. NewBee can also place a more greedy solo against Furion as there is no threat of him being solo killed. Picking Furion so early on also signals that they intend to go for a push draft, and NewBee can adapt accordingly.

VG's second pick following Furion, were Viper, Venomancer and AA. All of these heroes have zero hard disable. This made NewBee able to pick beefy tanks or extremely mobile heroes which VG could not lockdown or burst. These included Brewmaster, Ember, Puck, Weaver... the list goes on. These heroes are able to break VG's formation and snipe out the weak supports, stopping the push outright. Without any disables on half of the enemy team, NewBee placed higher priority on these heroes in the second phase of the pick.

By focusing so much on getting early towers and winning early fights to gather snowball, VG find themselves lost when NewBee easily stops them with stronger teamfight off Brewmaster/Puck, strong antipush with Alchemist, or facing a stronger enemy push with Chen. Seeing no way of comeback, VG taps out sub-20 min in Game 3 and 4, a victim of their own deathball.

* Conclusion

VG's deathball certainly made its impact in TI4. It seemed as though VG did not come into TI4 with maining the deathball strat in mind. In their earlier games we see them having lategame power with Sylar's Morph. However, with their first sub 20 min win, VG realised the meta wasn't prepared for the deathball.

VG's overemphasis on the push might be their undoing in the finals. It might also be that NewBee and VG both wanted to play for the early game aggression hence the competition for similar picks such as Furion or Rhasta, ultimately leading to VG picking for their push strat.

In the pre-finals interview, rOtK mentioned that he had more strats lined up. Their lategame carry strat typically involves Sylar's Morph together with rOtK's Doom or Super's Ember. NewBee's targeted picks and bans also led to many openings for surprise/pocket strats. These include a Wisp + Tiny, Tinker or Naga, which might catch NewBee totally offguard, providing a swing in momentum.

Will we see more of the deathball? Some viewers might not like the sub 20-min GGs from top teams, but others might like the amount of aggression and stuff happening compared to the ricing era of yesteryear. Only the next patchnotes can tell.

References:
datdota.com
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
August 04 2014 10:02 GMT
#2
VG's downfall is their overemphasis on picking push heroes early. It left them with no backup, as they lack good CC or teamfight heroes, as well as late game core with their early Prophet + Veno picks. I think the games would have been so different if VG went for Doom/Tide FP instead.

But I agree that the DP + Razor bans were very smart.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
August 04 2014 15:01 GMT
#3
The Vici Gaming Deathball only left its mark because teams were so greedy with their initial support picks and Evil Genius managed to fall to twice in a single best-of-three.

Vici Gaming strategic range is limited to Deathball and 4p1, but are really well practiced in both strategies. If teams guarded better against the deathball, Vici Gaming would have played 4p1 where they are no stronger than any of the other Chinese teams.

#flowchart
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
jitte
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
21 Posts
August 06 2014 16:31 GMT
#4
On August 04 2014 19:02 DucK- wrote:
VG's downfall is their overemphasis on picking push heroes early. It left them with no backup, as they lack good CC or teamfight heroes, as well as late game core with their early Prophet + Veno picks. I think the games would have been so different if VG went for Doom/Tide FP instead.

But I agree that the DP + Razor bans were very smart.

I think they placed Furion at such a high priority because Sylar's Furion was such a huge factor in winning the bo3 against EG.

On August 05 2014 00:01 TanGeng wrote:
The Vici Gaming Deathball only left its mark because teams were so greedy with their initial support picks and Evil Genius managed to fall to twice in a single best-of-three.

Vici Gaming strategic range is limited to Deathball and 4p1, but are really well practiced in both strategies. If teams guarded better against the deathball, Vici Gaming would have played 4p1 where they are no stronger than any of the other Chinese teams.

#flowchart

Yep I agree about their 2 strats. Firstpick Furion locked them in pretty much.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
-ZergGirl 198
ProTech138
Livibee 61
StarCraft: Brood War
Tasteless 263
Dewaltoss 99
sSak 83
Leta 73
Noble 45
scan(afreeca) 32
Dota 2
febbydoto16
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 668
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv581
Other Games
summit1g8539
WinterStarcraft486
C9.Mang0389
crisheroes255
Nina68
amsayoshi36
RuFF_SC218
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV111
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 24
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Sammyuel 34
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 27m
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
Platinum Heroes Events
8h 27m
BSL
13h 27m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
1d 5h
BSL
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.