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United States24682 Posts
I grew up and spent most of my life living in suburbs. I earned a full driver's license on my 17th birthday, and to be honest, I really needed it. In many suburbs (especially where I have lived) driving is the only viable primary method of transportation.
Currently I live in a city where driving is more of a burden than and aid. I still need to drive to get to many destinations outside the city (a separate topic I could discuss), but I take the Metro (Subway) to travel the city when the distance is too great to walk. I always thought that city life (from a transportation perspective) must be much better: It's more environmentally friendly, doesn't require you to actively control your vehicle, and gets you through congested areas more quickly.
It should be no surprise that there are drawbacks when using mass transit instead of a personal car. However, the level of frustration I have been feeling since I moved here far exceeds any expectations I had prior. I will briefly compare and contrast living in the suburbs vs Washington DC, recognizing that I'm comparing one particular suburb with another particular city (meaning your experiences will probably vary).
Before, going to the 'supermarket' used to mean getting in the car, driving for 5-10 minutes, and doing the same on the reverse trip. It was easy to make other stops along the way in either direction (preferably on the way there if it was hot out). I could easily bring home large amounts of items... perhaps it would take me five or six trips to bring everything in from the car on a day when I did a lot of shopping. Now, the closest supermarket is a bit too far to walk (especially carrying perishable groceries in the summer), but much less reasonable to drive to. I take the Metro one stop. This involves a short walk to the metro station, a wait for the train, a short walk to the supermarket, and then the same on the return trip. The wait for a train on a weekend (when I would do my grocery shopping) can be up to 20 minutes. On the way there I can use an app to time my arrival at the station (it says when the next train will arrive), but on the way back that doesn't really help. As for carrying my groceries... I am much more limited in how much I can buy... and I sure as hell am not making additional stops. This was much easier in the suburbs.
Obviously mass transit is never that efficient when your plan is to go only one stop. Yesterday and today I met up with people a little further away from my apartment. I had to take one train line two stops, get off and transfer to a different train line, take it two stops, and then get out. This of course includes a walk at each end to/from the station. And each train can have up to a 20 minute wait on weekends! The round trip can include up to an hour and twenty minutes of waiting! The average is probably more like 35 minutes, not counting time actually on the train. Meanwhile, I'm just a few miles away from my apartment when all is said and done. If it weren't for all the traffic lights and waits to cross streets, it would probably be freaking faster to walk there than to take mass transit. Personally I don't mind walking, but I don't like doing it for long distances through crowded streets and sidewalk, and especially not when the weather is really hot/cold/wet/etc.
When driving, you can have problems with your car. You need to fill up the gas regularly (you don't when you ride the train), you can get a flat, you need maintenance, the list goes on. Unfortunately, there are analogous problems when using the Metro. They are often doing maintenance on tracks, causing closures and slowdowns. They are often doing maintenance on stations. Sometimes the trains stop working. A few weeks ago I was headed to a small gathering of TL peeps and the train I was on suddenly stopped working and went out of service. When all was said and done I lost at least 15 minutes (on top of how long the trip normally takes).
I always thought trains are nice because of how you can do other things while you ride. Most of my rides on the Metro are not that long, so I don't have time to do anything serious. Obviously, most people just use their phones while they are on the Metro. The only problem is that you usually lose signal in between stations, so you can't really surf the web or chat with any efficiency. Also if you don't get a seat it's hard to pay much attention to your phone while maintaining your balance on the accelerating train.
Finally, I'll expand on crowding. Having to stand on a moving train isn't such a big deal, but it's not exactly comfortable. When you are 'smooshed' in like passengers on a stereotypical Japanese commuter train, it can be pretty unpleasant. I never have to do that when I'm driving!
Basically, mass transit takes up more time than I expected it to. Further, I can't accomplish as much while on the train as I thought. I'm feeling envious of the days when I lived in a place where everything I needed was within a 10-15 minute drive by car.
  
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New light rail line opens near mine in a few days in Saint Paul, couldn't be more excited. I think the key to if not enjoying then understanding public transit is to see it as a nice division between your work day and your home life. I could easily make it home faster, were I not to take it, though I would pay 10+ dollars a day in parking.
Instead, I get to zone out for forty minutes and put some mental distance between me and my office. Having just started a new job this is a welcome repas from the often frantic pace my mind is going by day's end.
I take it as an opportunity to get things done on foot I might not otherwise were I to have access to my car. Pick up a bit of fresh grocery downtown when the farmers market is on a main drag of down town, or pop into a major retailer and do the same.
Is it less efficient? Generally yes, but there are still ways to make the time productive. I don't know which city you are running about in, but there are always ways to make your time a bit more productive, if only by reading.
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United States24682 Posts
ThomasjServo made me realize there is something I should clarify: I do not ride the Metro to work... I actually walk to work. If I had to ride the Metro to work, this blog would have probably been a bit longer and even more negative lol
edit: Also, I mention near the top of the OP that the city is Washington DC.
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On June 09 2014 11:12 micronesia wrote:
ThomasjServo made me realize there is something I should clarify: I do not ride the Metro to work... I actually walk to work. If I had to ride the Metro to work, this blog would have probably been a bit longer and even more negative lol
edit: Also, I mention near the top of the OP that the city is Washington DC.
Woops, missed that, DC would add a degree of interesting to the matter, blame the ABL IRC for my distraction. You should read Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail in 72 for a bit of Dc insight.
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Depends on the city I guess.
Tokyo is pretty good, the line I use most often (Chiyoda) is about 6 minutes during off peak hours, which is probably slightly below the more busy lines like Yamanote, Ginza and Marunouchi. Peak hours is usually around three minutes. I've never had to take a train to a supermarket, since there is always at least one mid-sized supermarket near every station, but I can imagine it would be a little uncomfortable.
I used to take trains to farther super markets weekly and occasionally Chinatown or Flushing when I was living in NYC, and carrying groceries on the train while going through the turnstile is a major pain.
Trains for commute is a totally different beast. People in Western countries (NY/NJ and London) care too much about personal space and never move towards the middle of the train and just block the doors so no one else can get on, and people in Japan care too little and push just a tad too hard (lol).
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Over here in Europe, we use this thing called "bicycle". They are pretty neat. =P
I usually ride my bike for distances under ~10km.
For greater distances and on rainy or very windy days I use the subway or a combination of train and bike.
I think about signing up for a carsharing service like Car2Go for the big weekend grocery shopping. A friend is using it and it seems to work great.
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United States24682 Posts
On June 09 2014 12:44 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Over here in Europe, we use this thing called "bicycle". They are pretty neat. =P
I usually ride my bike for distances under ~10km.
For greater distances and on rainy or very windy days I use the subway or a combination of train and bike.
I think about signing up for a carsharing service like Car2Go for the big weekend grocery shopping. A friend is using it and it seems to work great.
While writing the OP, I made a conscious effort not to preempt the slightly obnoxious bicycle comment that was sure to come. It came lol
Some cities are more bicycle friendly than others. I'm a bit envious of those many parts of Europe where it's so easy to use bicycles. Obviously, it doesn't really help with groceries. It isn't a solution for me.
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On June 09 2014 12:48 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2014 12:44 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Over here in Europe, we use this thing called "bicycle". They are pretty neat. =P
I usually ride my bike for distances under ~10km.
For greater distances and on rainy or very windy days I use the subway or a combination of train and bike.
I think about signing up for a carsharing service like Car2Go for the big weekend grocery shopping. A friend is using it and it seems to work great. While writing the OP, I made a conscious effort not to preempt the slightly obnoxious bicycle comment that was sure to come. It came lol Some cities are more bicycle friendly than others. I'm a bit envious of those many parts of Europe where it's so easy to use bicycles. Obviously, it doesn't really help with groceries. It isn't a solution for me.
Hehe and you sure delivered the expected response 
Anyway I just saw that Car2Go also operates in Washington DC, you should check it out. I think it's a good solution for grocery shopping.
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Osaka27149 Posts
I was beaten to the obnoxious bike comment, but it actually isn't an impediment for carrying groceries. You can carry more on your bicycle than in your hands and it doesn't have to cost much. If it is unsafe on the roads/sidewalk, that is a different story.
Dont want to spend a lot of money on panniers? Try these. Waterproof, strong, and eco.
http://www.grannygears.com/media/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1665
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Osaka27149 Posts
On June 09 2014 12:32 Cambium wrote:
Depends on the city I guess.
Tokyo is pretty good, the line I use most often (Chiyoda) is about 6 minutes during off peak hours, which is probably slightly below the more busy lines like Yamanote, Ginza and Marunouchi. Peak hours is usually around three minutes. I've never had to take a train to a supermarket, since there is always at least one mid-sized supermarket near every station, but I can imagine it would be a little uncomfortable.
I used to take trains to farther super markets weekly and occasionally Chinatown or Flushing when I was living in NYC, and carrying groceries on the train while going through the turnstile is a major pain.
Trains for commute is a totally different beast. People in Western countries (NY/NJ and London) care too much about personal space and never move towards the middle of the train and just block the doors so no one else can get on, and people in Japan care too little and push just a tad too hard (lol).
The best part of my work is that I go south in the morning when everyone goes north, and north at night when everyone goes south.
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Having made a similar move four years ago I can totally relate to everything you're talking about. My wife in particular really misses being able to drive. One thing that you touched on slightly with the grocery stores is the ability to carry more in a car. Having to lug around an extra bag all day sucks! It's was so much easier to just throw a gym bag into the car before going to work and then hit the gym on the way home (as well as all the other errands one might want to do). However, owning a car here would be pretty difficult.
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United States24682 Posts
On June 09 2014 13:35 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2014 12:48 micronesia wrote:On June 09 2014 12:44 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Over here in Europe, we use this thing called "bicycle". They are pretty neat. =P
I usually ride my bike for distances under ~10km.
For greater distances and on rainy or very windy days I use the subway or a combination of train and bike.
I think about signing up for a carsharing service like Car2Go for the big weekend grocery shopping. A friend is using it and it seems to work great. While writing the OP, I made a conscious effort not to preempt the slightly obnoxious bicycle comment that was sure to come. It came lol Some cities are more bicycle friendly than others. I'm a bit envious of those many parts of Europe where it's so easy to use bicycles. Obviously, it doesn't really help with groceries. It isn't a solution for me. Hehe and you sure delivered the expected response Anyway I just saw that Car2Go also operates in Washington DC, you should check it out. I think it's a good solution for grocery shopping.
I took a look: there don't seem to be any Car2Go services in my particular part of DC. Even so, I don't understand how Car2Go would help me... I have a car and off-street parking. The issue isn't the car... it's that driving is not practical for many locations to begin with.
On June 09 2014 15:13 Manifesto7 wrote:I was beaten to the obnoxious bike comment, but it actually isn't an impediment for carrying groceries. You can carry more on your bicycle than in your hands and it doesn't have to cost much. If it is unsafe on the roads/sidewalk, that is a different story. Dont want to spend a lot of money on panniers? Try these. Waterproof, strong, and eco. http://www.grannygears.com/media/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1665
How much can you carry? Like, when I take the Metro I'll typically carry two 20-pound grocery bags home with me (rough estimate). Can you get more 20 pound bags on to a normal bicycle?
y0su: yep
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It sounds like the metro in dc is not very efficient. I grew up in an area where a car is a must. Unless you like to walk 1 hour to places. Lived in Milan and Toulouse and they both have very efficient metros and buses and such. really they are never late and have timers to display when the next one passes. Its boring to take a metro for just 1 stop.
I mean going out going to metro stop taking metro getting out is really a rythim that once you get used to you don' t even notice anymore. Also city-walking is different from town walking. When i walk in city i walk very fast and can cover 2 metro stops in 10 minutes. with growcers and items it would be more difficult, thats why many people use trollies, or use the home delivery system. I' m surprised in d.c. supermarkets don' t have that. Bycicles are not easily viable, especially in milan, except maybe some week-ends where they close the city center to traffic for pollution reasons.
But really its just to become accostumed to the rythim vs car rythim. its 2 totally different things. Living closer to a metro or bus stop is more pratical, maybe choose your next apartment/flat/room near one
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
In the UK, home deliveries for groceries is ubiquitous and very cheap/free. Is it not the same in US cities?
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If I was still buying groceries on foot, or had to take the Metro, I'd probably get a rolling suitcase-type cooler.
It'd keep your stuff cold, you wouldn't have to carry everything (or, you could carry more) and would not look weird on the Metro, because it looks like luggage.
I used to ride from the Vienna stop on the orange line, not to buy groceries, but when I wanted to go downtown.
Is that your neighborhood, by any chance?
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It's interesting how living in a city and relying on mass transportation changes your perception of distances. There are places only a few miles from where I am that take forever to get to while going in a different direction means I can get 10+ miles in the same time frame. Sometimes public transportation is way faster, other times slower. Depends a lot on the specifics I suppose.
Uh also importantly look into GPS tracking of the trains. Many cities equip the trains with GPS and you can use a phone to look up the precise arrival times. That way you should be able to get to the station right as the train is arriving and not have to wait 20+ minutes (unless crowds).
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This was actually an interesting read for me because as I am currently backpacking Europe I've been to multiple larger cities where there are developed Metro systems, unlike my old residence at home which did not have a Metro system and the city buses are generally awful as well.
If I had to live without a car at home it would be so much more difficult for the exact reasons you described. But there's no Metro and the city buses are even more of a hassle so it would likely end up being worse.
I've been taking the Metro in the cities I've been in that have one (along with a lot of walking of course), and overall I'm amazed by it's efficiency and all that. But of course if I come back to my hostel I usually only come back with about 6-12lbs of food that I can stick in my backpack that I take with me as a day bag. And the awkward shaped stuff I'll just use a single bag for or hold in my hands, so it's not so bad.
I've realized that if I end up staying in Europe for an extended amount of time and get an apartment then I will be making bigger trips like you and that it would be more problematic, however as someone above mentioned, by the sound of it, the Metro is more developed and faster in Europe and would probably still have at least a slightly easier time than you.
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As someone from the bronx, I was actually pretty impressed with the subways in DC when I was visiting there. They are a lot cleaner and quieter than the ones in nyc. The advantage nyc has though is that it feels like there are more stations spaced closer together which means less walking, and if you know how to play the express/local train game it doesn't cut into time spent on the train very much. Also we only just got the ability to know when the next train is coming within like the last year, way behind the curve. Also I've been stuck waiting on a crowded broken down train for 45+ minutes while being late for something and having to pee; not pleasant. But still better than paying $40+ to park in manhattan I guess. About distance/time just to give you an idea taking the train from where I live to Brooklyn involves a 30 minute bus ride (after waiting for the bus) followed by a 1 hour 45 minutes train ride with transferring. If I'm going to Coney Island its 2 hours 15 minutes.
Also as far as European subways, much better as far as I can tell. You could set your watch by the trains in Munich and they actually have a pleasant smell. Even in France where the drivers go on strike once a month the trains were pretty efficient.
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Basically, it's a cost-benefit analysis of time and convenience between having a car and taking the train. With the mass transit option, you lose freedom of travel, time, loss of personal space, and limited by how much you can carry in exchange for lower costs. There's really nothing to do in a crowded train except things that are on your phone (I started to read and watch movies on my commute). If you live in NYC, then mass transit is alright, but even then, sometimes you would want a car as well.
On June 10 2014 03:34 TheFish7 wrote:
As someone from the bronx, I was actually pretty impressed with the subways in DC when I was visiting there. They are a lot cleaner and quieter than the ones in nyc. The advantage nyc has though is that it feels like there are more stations spaced closer together which means less walking, and if you know how to play the express/local train game it doesn't cut into time spent on the train very much. Also we only just got the ability to know when the next train is coming within like the last year, way behind the curve. Also I've been stuck waiting on a crowded broken down train for 45+ minutes while being late for something and having to pee; not pleasant. But still better than paying $40+ to park in manhattan I guess.
Well, DC metro has rules stating that you cannot eat/drink on the train; officers can issue citations. Imagine if you impose those rules to NYC transit riders, people wouldn't follow them anyway. In fact, there's a movement from the MTA to remove platform trash bins from certain stations to make the rider carry their trash until they leave the transit system; I think for some stations, this would be impossible. Also, the ability to know how long a train away is only implemented for specific lines in NYC; maybe we'll get them system-wide in 50 years. The MTA still uses 1930s signaling systems for most lines and that most of the improvements in the system (in regards to signals) is related to having no more manufacturers to provide spare parts.
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Osaka27149 Posts
On June 09 2014 20:15 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2014 13:35 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:On June 09 2014 12:48 micronesia wrote:On June 09 2014 12:44 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Over here in Europe, we use this thing called "bicycle". They are pretty neat. =P
I usually ride my bike for distances under ~10km.
For greater distances and on rainy or very windy days I use the subway or a combination of train and bike.
I think about signing up for a carsharing service like Car2Go for the big weekend grocery shopping. A friend is using it and it seems to work great. While writing the OP, I made a conscious effort not to preempt the slightly obnoxious bicycle comment that was sure to come. It came lol Some cities are more bicycle friendly than others. I'm a bit envious of those many parts of Europe where it's so easy to use bicycles. Obviously, it doesn't really help with groceries. It isn't a solution for me. Hehe and you sure delivered the expected response Anyway I just saw that Car2Go also operates in Washington DC, you should check it out. I think it's a good solution for grocery shopping. I took a look: there don't seem to be any Car2Go services in my particular part of DC. Even so, I don't understand how Car2Go would help me... I have a car and off-street parking. The issue isn't the car... it's that driving is not practical for many locations to begin with. How much can you carry? Like, when I take the Metro I'll typically carry two 20-pound grocery bags home with me (rough estimate). Can you get more 20 pound bags on to a normal bicycle? y0su: yep
Depends on your bike setup, but I can carry double that on mine with no problem.
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I think you figure out pretty fast what is the best way to travel once you live in a place for a while. Public trasit feels very stress-free if trains and buses pass by very often so there is very little waiting. But it will always feel awkward if you need to wait a lot or have to worry about this bus being delayed so to don't catch that 2nd bus afterwards.
Having personal space on a bus is nice, but if you take a crowded bus often you will eventually train yourself to not be too bothered by it. The same applies to walking. Walking 10 minutes with heavy grocery bags is not as bad if it is something you do every other day.
I used to be a member of a car collective where you would be able to just pick up a car, drive where you needed, come back and log the time and distance you drove and the state of the vehicle. It was very practical because apart from membership fees, you only paid for how much you drove and you didn't have to do any of the tedious tasks of taking care of a car. It made a lot of sense when mostly walking and using the bus system. Using mass transit can be too expensive if you already own a car that you have to dump lots of time and money into.
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United States24682 Posts
On June 09 2014 22:06 marvellosity wrote:
In the UK, home deliveries for groceries is ubiquitous and very cheap/free. Is it not the same in US cities?
It is common in some locales... not so much in others. It is probably available in my area, but I don't want it. Arranging the home delivery can be a problem for me on my schedule, plus I like to shop in the store.
On June 10 2014 00:01 hazdur wrote:
I used to ride from the Vienna stop on the orange line, not to buy groceries, but when I wanted to go downtown.
Is that your neighborhood, by any chance? I'm in the Capitol Riverfront.
On June 10 2014 05:17 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2014 20:15 micronesia wrote:On June 09 2014 13:35 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:On June 09 2014 12:48 micronesia wrote:On June 09 2014 12:44 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Over here in Europe, we use this thing called "bicycle". They are pretty neat. =P
I usually ride my bike for distances under ~10km.
For greater distances and on rainy or very windy days I use the subway or a combination of train and bike.
I think about signing up for a carsharing service like Car2Go for the big weekend grocery shopping. A friend is using it and it seems to work great. While writing the OP, I made a conscious effort not to preempt the slightly obnoxious bicycle comment that was sure to come. It came lol Some cities are more bicycle friendly than others. I'm a bit envious of those many parts of Europe where it's so easy to use bicycles. Obviously, it doesn't really help with groceries. It isn't a solution for me. Hehe and you sure delivered the expected response Anyway I just saw that Car2Go also operates in Washington DC, you should check it out. I think it's a good solution for grocery shopping. I took a look: there don't seem to be any Car2Go services in my particular part of DC. Even so, I don't understand how Car2Go would help me... I have a car and off-street parking. The issue isn't the car... it's that driving is not practical for many locations to begin with. On June 09 2014 15:13 Manifesto7 wrote:I was beaten to the obnoxious bike comment, but it actually isn't an impediment for carrying groceries. You can carry more on your bicycle than in your hands and it doesn't have to cost much. If it is unsafe on the roads/sidewalk, that is a different story. Dont want to spend a lot of money on panniers? Try these. Waterproof, strong, and eco. http://www.grannygears.com/media/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1665 How much can you carry? Like, when I take the Metro I'll typically carry two 20-pound grocery bags home with me (rough estimate). Can you get more 20 pound bags on to a normal bicycle? y0su: yep Depends on your bike setup, but I can carry double that on mine with no problem.
Damn, I'd like to see a photo of that LOL
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About having groceries delivered: you don't need to shop around for 'everything' you buy, stuff like milk/bread/pasta/rice/eggs/drinks/etc is what probably takes up most of the weight in your grocery bags and you probably don't need to see the rows of 100s of fanta and coke bottles (or whatever it is that you drink) to make up your mind on which one you'll take.
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On June 09 2014 22:06 marvellosity wrote:
In the UK, home deliveries for groceries is ubiquitous and very cheap/free. Is it not the same in US cities?
That no longer exists actually. If it does, it is very rare here.
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