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I'm going to university soon. I'm not exactly sure where I'm going yet, but the vast majority of schools that I applied to have all of the traditional majors and departments, with a few exceptions (Caltech and MIT have practically no humanities majors but some more specialized science disciplines). Thing is, I don't really know what I want to study. Yeah, I have about 1-2 years to figure it out, but in some cases I am entering uni with 1-2 years worth of credits (e.g. math, chemistry). I am in a position where if I do figure out what I want to study early, I could begin UG research early, take a ton of my major's classes, and just generally be farther ahead than most of my peers. I am entertaining the idea of getting a PhD (yeah, I know, I'm only 17, so I really know squat about this) so the earlier I hone in on a field, the better.
I am pretty sure that I am going to study something in the STEM area. However, my verbal skills have always been higher than any of my other skills, despite me being more interested in STEM and having many more awards in STEM.
Here are some fields that I am considering, ranked from (currently) most interesting to least interesting:
Most interested:
Computer Science/Engineering
Math
Chemistry
Physics and Astronomy
Pretty interested:
Biomedical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Medicine/Biology. I like research in this area so I might try to do an MSTP program, but they are super competitive. Honestly though I'd probably hate my life if I just became a private practice doctor in something like Internal Medicine because it seems just so boring.
Law (In the US this is a professional degree so I would have to study something else for UG)
Economics (I have not taken any economics classes yet so I want to at least try this. However, I've read that economics doesn't actually get academic until you take econometrics so I may audit that course or something).
As you can see, I have a lot of narrowing down to do. I am relatively accomplished in Chemistry and somewhat in Math, though I am also pretty good at physics. I am also very type-A and competitive, and I am willing to study things independently to get ahead. I'm going to come in with credit in math (2-5 semesters depending on if they let me test out of what I've studied ind.), chemistry (2-4 semesters depending on testing out policies) physics (2), CS (1-2), Biology (0-3), and many gen eds, so I have at least some experience in these disciplines already.
I really like math, but I'm not so sure about it. The thing about math is that most of the universities that I am considering will have people who are much better at math than me. I'm one of the/ the best at math in my age group (according to competitions) in my city of 700k, but my city is fucking retarded; there are going to be people studying math from Boston and SF that have been able to do Dual Enrollment at unis up to Real Analysis, and I am afraid they will run circles around me. While I do very well in my city I don't think I could ever even qualify for the USAMO unless I traveled back in time and made my parents first gen Chinese or Russian, because I've never been tutored or pushed beyond my grade level (only taking Calc BC as senior) / done actual hard contest math. I've gone to private schools all my life that, while good, don't overly accelerate kids, so I've had to study stuff on my own, and I don't really know how to write proofs very well. I'm also afraid that I am simply good at computation and not creative problem solving. If I had to pick any field to be an academic (professor) in, it would be math, since it seems like a pretty relaxed lifestyle, but I don't know if I can make it. I know there are a few mathematicians on TL that have done MOP and that study math: do you all know anybody who was never a contest math whiz who ended up being really good at math? Not the next Terrence Tao, but someone good enough to get into a renowned PhD program?
So yeah, that's it. I know there is a cohort of academics on TL that have studied many of these fields, and perhaps some researchers in these fields too. If you could recommend me a field and tell me what it's like at a high level, what's good and what's bad about it, I'd appreciate it. Career wise I'm not yet sure if I want to work in industry or academia (and I really only want to work in academia if I can become a professor), but most of these fields would allow me to some flexibility in this regard (except chemistry, but I'd study something else with it).
Sell me on something, please. Even if I didn't list your field, I'd like to hear some thoughts.
 
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Higher level math courses are a pain. Pure math gets so abstract after a certain point that you have to be a real genius to even attempt to understand it, let alone excel at it. You're better off doing something that involves application of mathematics and logic.
Computer science and engineering --- ideal and very high demand fields (lots of jobs, not enough qualified people to fill those jobs). If you enjoy math and logic you will like it very much.
Chemistry --- don't do it unless you're leaning towards medicine, pharmacy, or biochemistry (or biomedical engineering which you listed as a possibility). To be honest, any of these fields will require a chemistry background (maybe just a few classes) as a prerequisite. But don't go down the purely chemistry road.
Physics / astronomy --- again, this is almost entirely application of mathematics (at a higher level of course; lower level physics/astronomy courses will be largely descriptive and less analytical). Unless you want to become a physics teacher in high school, or eventually get a PhD in physics and teach in college, don't do physics. You're better off going into engineering which is where physics students usually end up if they aren't interested in the academic route. But if you are really passionate about physics and have a strong mathematics background I won't dissuade you from pursuing this option.
Law --- don't do it. You will be miserable for the rest of your life. The market is oversaturated with lawyers as it is.
Economics --- this is a "social science" which means that if you like science you will hate economics. I majored in economics, worst decision of my life. Most of the classes in the first 2 or 3 years you take can be learn from wikipedia. Higher level economics is basically simple calculus concepts. Econometrics is only one class, and that's more calculus and statistics than anything else. Again, it is very abstract at the higher level. But unlike engineering or physics, it's all a bunch of theory and concepts that have very few concrete applications apart from academia. Math is at the very least more interesting. And unless you're the chairman of the Federal Reserve you'd honestly be better off getting a degree in English.
You should probably choose between computer science and electrical / biomedical / biochemical engineering. Physics is an option if you're really passionate about it.
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I'm also afraid that I am simply good at computation and not creative problem solving
I view the fields you listed as Math and applied Math. The latter defnitly requires a more common skillset, but you will encounter creative problem solving aswell. As for you type-A personality and competitiveness, choose math if you decide that the only competition that matters is the competition against yourself. That it does not matter if someone is better than you in that field, as long as you are the best variation of yourself.
If you thrive on open competition, go for applied Math, and stay away from academia, it is, on the highest level, much more about cooperation than competition. While in the "industry" you can make much more money more easily, be competitiv and enjoy your type-A personality probably more. I would probably suggest either Law or Economics in that case. Your verbal skills will come in very handy going for law, you'd meet a lot of type-A personalities and live in a competitiv field. Economics are similar too law, you actually don't have to fear any creative problem solving and in the end it will come down to social engenieering more than anything else, making your achivements almost irrelevant (as for being the best while studying).
The reason why I always pick Math over any subject are actually the female students, nowhere else will you find more beautiful, innocent and weird girls.
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The reason why I always pick Math over any subject are actually the female students, nowhere else will you find more beautiful, innocent and weird girls.
ok i'm going to be blunt on this issue. it's true that there will be less females in these following areas: math, computer science, engineering, and physics. however, the girls who do study these subjects are more likely to be interesting and/or more likely to engage you in intellectual conversation. also, biology and chemistry seems to attract many smart beautiful ladies as well
you will have no problem getting girls in law, economics, or any other liberal arts focused field (communications, psychology, and gender studies). they will also be statistically more attractive compared to girls in the former group (which makes sense because they would statistically also be more likely to be preoccupied with appearance, and therefore superficiality). but ask yourself this: are any of the girls in this latter group really worth your time? at least girls in the former group will have more substance
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Picking a field of study because of women is the dumbest thing you could ever do. You only have one life; do what you love. If you don't wake up every day happy to go to work/learn, you're doing the wrong thing. Not everyone takes work seriously, but if you're seriously considering going to graduate school and investing that much into your education for that much of your life, do something you enjoy.
You may enjoy some kind of pharmaceutical, biomedical engineering, or even medical research related work. I know at Johns Hopkins they offer a minor in computer assisted surgery (which may be a nice balance b/t computer science and biology, assuming your school offers it). I have to agree that physics, chem, and math aren't particularly useful fields of study, but if you can find something that straddles the fields that you enjoy the most you'll get the most out of your education.
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On February 02 2014 07:17 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Picking a field of study because of women is the dumbest thing you could ever do. You only have one life; do what you love. If you don't wake up every day happy to go to work/learn, you're doing the wrong thing. Not everyone takes work seriously, but if you're seriously considering going to graduate school and investing that much into your education for that much of your life, do something you enjoy.
You may enjoy some kind of pharmaceutical, biomedical engineering, or even medical research related work. I know at Johns Hopkins they offer a minor in computer assisted surgery (which may be a nice balance b/t computer science and biology, assuming your school offers it). I have to agree that physics, chem, and math aren't particularly useful fields of study, but if you can find something that straddles the fields that you enjoy the most you'll get the most out of your education.
lol I agree. This may be shocking news, but you're actually allowed to date people who are not studying the same thing as you.
To the OP, maybe consider work/volunteer/travel. The more you know about yourself and the world, the better decisions you can make. Sometimes the most instructive things can be stuff you really hate... if you work a shitty job first, you will appreciate school a lot more.
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On February 02 2014 06:17 NeuroticPsychosis wrote:
Higher level math courses are a pain. Pure math gets so abstract after a certain point that you have to be a real genius to even attempt to understand it, let alone excel at it. You're better off doing something that involves application of mathematics and logic.
Computer science and engineering --- ideal and very high demand fields (lots of jobs, not enough qualified people to fill those jobs). If you enjoy math and logic you will like it very much.
Chemistry --- don't do it unless you're leaning towards medicine, pharmacy, or biochemistry (or biomedical engineering which you listed as a possibility). To be honest, any of these fields will require a chemistry background (maybe just a few classes) as a prerequisite. But don't go down the purely chemistry road.
Physics / astronomy --- again, this is almost entirely application of mathematics (at a higher level of course; lower level physics/astronomy courses will be largely descriptive and less analytical). Unless you want to become a physics teacher in high school, or eventually get a PhD in physics and teach in college, don't do physics. You're better off going into engineering which is where physics students usually end up if they aren't interested in the academic route. But if you are really passionate about physics and have a strong mathematics background I won't dissuade you from pursuing this option.
Law --- don't do it. You will be miserable for the rest of your life. The market is oversaturated with lawyers as it is.
Economics --- this is a "social science" which means that if you like science you will hate economics. I majored in economics, worst decision of my life. Most of the classes in the first 2 or 3 years you take can be learn from wikipedia. Higher level economics is basically simple calculus concepts. Econometrics is only one class, and that's more calculus and statistics than anything else. Again, it is very abstract at the higher level. But unlike engineering or physics, it's all a bunch of theory and concepts that have very few concrete applications apart from academia. Math is at the very least more interesting. And unless you're the chairman of the Federal Reserve you'd honestly be better off getting a degree in English.
You should probably choose between computer science and electrical / biomedical / biochemical engineering. Physics is an option if you're really passionate about it.
So you don't like economics, then. What if you went to a target school for banking recruitment, do you think it would be worthwhile then?
Also, I was under the impression that law was still lucrative if you went to a T7 or T14 school and did well there. Is that not the case anymore? The good thing about law admissions is that it seems pretty transparent in that they only care about GPA, LSAT, and demographics (afaik).
I don't want to pick anything just for the money (though money is good) because I think I could fall back on programming since I plan on studying CS in addition to something else. Though I do know that post Calc/LA classes are abstract and difficult I still want to give math a try, since I don't really know where I stand among math majors yet, only people from my city.
Thanks.
On February 02 2014 06:32 HaRuHi wrote:Show nested quote +I'm also afraid that I am simply good at computation and not creative problem solving I view the fields you listed as Math and applied Math. The latter defnitly requires a more common skillset, but you will encounter creative problem solving aswell. As for you type-A personality and competitiveness, choose math if you decide that the only competition that matters is the competition against yourself. That it does not matter if someone is better than you in that field, as long as you are the best variation of yourself. If you thrive on open competition, go for applied Math, and stay away from academia, it is, on the highest level, much more about cooperation than competition. While in the "industry" you can make much more money more easily, be competitiv and enjoy your type-A personality probably more. I would probably suggest either Law or Economics in that case. Your verbal skills will come in very handy going for law, you'd meet a lot of type-A personalities and live in a competitiv field. Economics are similar too law, you actually don't have to fear any creative problem solving and in the end it will come down to social engenieering more than anything else, making your achivements almost irrelevant (as for being the best while studying). The reason why I always pick Math over any subject are actually the female students, nowhere else will you find more beautiful, innocent and weird girls.
The thing about me is that I just like to win. So I do think that I could channel my competitiveness into a drive to improve myself regardless of others' skills, but I do accept that I will never be considered the most brilliant mathematician of my time. However, doesn't it matter how you stand against others in some regards? Who can publish the most papers, solve the most discussed open problems? By the way, I don't think I am bad at creative problem solving, I just don't have enough experience with it to definitively say anything.
On February 02 2014 07:17 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Picking a field of study because of women is the dumbest thing you could ever do. You only have one life; do what you love. If you don't wake up every day happy to go to work/learn, you're doing the wrong thing. Not everyone takes work seriously, but if you're seriously considering going to graduate school and investing that much into your education for that much of your life, do something you enjoy.
You may enjoy some kind of pharmaceutical, biomedical engineering, or even medical research related work. I know at Johns Hopkins they offer a minor in computer assisted surgery (which may be a nice balance b/t computer science and biology, assuming your school offers it). I have to agree that physics, chem, and math aren't particularly useful fields of study, but if you can find something that straddles the fields that you enjoy the most you'll get the most out of your education.
Don't worry, I'm not picking based on girls. I would love to meet girls that are interested in the same things that I am, but at the same time if a girl is nice, smart, and attractive I wouldn't care if she studied veterinary science or pharmacy. Though to be honest when it comes to starting a family I would like to be with a girl with an earning potential on par with mine. Still, girls in a major are just coincidental perks.
On February 02 2014 08:08 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 07:17 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
Picking a field of study because of women is the dumbest thing you could ever do. You only have one life; do what you love. If you don't wake up every day happy to go to work/learn, you're doing the wrong thing. Not everyone takes work seriously, but if you're seriously considering going to graduate school and investing that much into your education for that much of your life, do something you enjoy.
You may enjoy some kind of pharmaceutical, biomedical engineering, or even medical research related work. I know at Johns Hopkins they offer a minor in computer assisted surgery (which may be a nice balance b/t computer science and biology, assuming your school offers it). I have to agree that physics, chem, and math aren't particularly useful fields of study, but if you can find something that straddles the fields that you enjoy the most you'll get the most out of your education. lol I agree. This may be shocking news, but you're actually allowed to date people who are not studying the same thing as you. To the OP, maybe consider work/volunteer/travel. The more you know about yourself and the world, the better decisions you can make. Sometimes the most instructive things can be stuff you really hate... if you work a shitty job first, you will appreciate school a lot more.
I was thinking about tutoring during UG (though for $, I don't like volunteer tutoring because the students are uninterested and I hate it) and maybe studying at a European university for a bit. Is there anything in addition that you would recommend?
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Picking a field of study because of women is the dumbest thing you could ever do. You only have one life; do what you love.
I love doing women, math aint bad either  .
The thing about me is that I just like to win. So I do think that I could channel my competitiveness into a drive to improve myself regardless of others' skills, but I do accept that I will never be considered the most brilliant mathematician of my time. However, doesn't it matter how you stand against others in some regards? Who can publish the most papers, solve the most discussed open problems?
It always matters how you stand against others in some regards, it just is not the focus in academia and if you are not the most brilliant mathematician of your time, you not gonna solve the most discussed open problems, merely discuss them. However, it is defnitly a field in which success is measuarable, or more real, because it is more abstract. Law and economics are mushy in that regard at best, it is all about social skills, if you define success in money, stay away from academia^^.
I think you can excell and find happiness in any field. Sorry that does not help, thats why you should go by the women^^.
edit: One thing that might be helpful, I started out studying CS, but was really dissapointed by it (except for the theory). I found that it is easy to teach oneself the nessecary skills if you have a strong mathematical background and am able to do some work in that field now if I have to, but it is rather tedious, yet well paid, work.
edit 2: Oh yeah, you can find a lot of MIT and Stanford courses on youtube, to see how some of your courses could be, though robert sapolsky can probably make any field seem like the most interresting thing in the world^^.
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If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology.
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On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology.
Are you saying not to get a PhD at all, or to get a PhD in the social sciences or humanities?
I don't want to just have a PhD so that I can call myself a doctor, I would like a PhD so that I could become really good at something that interests me.
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Do you have any big dream for what you want to do with your life? One of mine is to influence the progress of renewable energy. For that, Mechanical and Electrical engineering, Chemistry, and perhaps some Math would be good.
Other than that, no advice to give, except that if you want to be a DJ, don't drop out of school so you can have more time. You probably will have to spend the same 40 hour weeks as everyone else, while trying to be a DJ, and you'll be paid a lot less.
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If you have access to advising, perhaps instead of focusing on a field of STUDY and asking the question, "what degree shoud I get?" you could tell them what fields of WORK you're interested in, and they could tell you the related degree programs which allow you to position yourself with that type of work.
It just seems more logical to think this way coming from my experience of going to school "just because," dropping out to make music, realizing I still need money, and now considering what degree to undertake on my return from this perspective. Fortunately for me, if I were to go back to school, I chose the Mech.E. route the first time 'round, making my return thrust shorter than the average "hey I figured it out!" guy.
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On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology.
But this is true of most if not every field atm. From a purely practical POV, a PhD really isn't worth the effort you put into it (saying this as someone in a PhD program right now). On the other hand, if you like what you do ...
OP, I'd suggest just exploring ... it's good and all to have people tell you that you should do X or you should do Y and "I hate X because Z and you will too!" but in the end it's such an individual choice. Plus, you're going to hate at least one thing about whatever you end up doing, just depends on how much you weigh that hatred, so to speak.
Also when you're 17, you're basically trapped in a bubble where you don't consider less traditional paths, so it's hard to have much perspective unless you do a lot of exploring on your own (or talk to nontraditional peeps).
If you want my personal rec though, I'd totally say go for bio and become a field biologist (maybe an ornithologist).  Yeah, not useful at all, which just goes to show ... individual choice.
EDIT: And lol @ the guy who said that econ/law/lib arts attracts superficial people.
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Computer Science - if you are even half decent at this or enjoy it to some degree, you will very likely get a job. everyone wants cs majors, even companies that aren't cs focused. Even if you choose not to do cs, I highly recommend taking a few basic classes. It's a very sought after and needed skill. This is just an anecdote but my friend majored in poli sci, only took a few cs classes, yet is now working a cs related job. So technically his major did nothing but those few classes landed him the job.
Physics - liking physics a lot would be one thing. just being good at physics, however, is more indicative that you'd excel at (and enjoy) some kind of engineering than pure physics itself.
Biomedical engineering - okay, if my experience as a bioengineering student has taught me one thing, it's that this field is waaaay too diverse. You can take any other science, and apply it to medicine and engineering and you have a much more specific field. For example, I eventually found out I prefer biochemical engineering while I hate mechanobioengineering. Personally, I think bioengineering programs need some work to better prep students but it also depends if you know what you want to specialize in or not (you clearly don't atm). That said, technology continues to move toward incorporating all other sciences toward biomedical uses. It's a very promising and growing field, especially by the time you finish your degree(s). Particularly because it incorporates so many sciences together, it's really interesting for people who can't choose between engineering/biology/chem/etc. because you get to learn about basically all of it (which is also a problem because of the need to teach so much compared to other fields).
Medicine/Biology - don't do this. The majority of people going into this don't know what they're getting into and end up hating it or dropping out. The ones who stay really love this field or at least are willing to work hard enough to be a doctor. People like you who are thinking of several different options aside from biology/medicine are going to like something else far more than bio.
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There are intelligent people working on interesting puzzles in all of the fields you mentioned. But, your experience will likely be colored by your institution. Find a department with faculty and students whom you enjoy working with, and who support you. From what you've described about your background, you have that luxury.
Don't worry too much about getting ahead of your peers. Whatever advantages you gain in the short term will be immaterial over the time frame you're concerned with.
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Don't listen to people who say "don't do this."
You sound like a curious person… follow your interests, not the trends or the money.
I'm a biology PhD student, over saturated, bad job market, low pay, whatever… I love my work!
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On February 02 2014 12:31 hp.Shell wrote:
If you have access to advising, perhaps instead of focusing on a field of STUDY and asking the question, "what degree shoud I get?" you could tell them what fields of WORK you're interested in, and they could tell you the related degree programs which allow you to position yourself with that type of work.
It just seems more logical to think this way coming from my experience of going to school "just because," dropping out to make music, realizing I still need money, and now considering what degree to undertake on my return from this perspective. Fortunately for me, if I were to go back to school, I chose the Mech.E. route the first time 'round, making my return thrust shorter than the average "hey I figured it out!" guy.
The problem is that I don't want to go to college "just because" but that I am interested in so many things that it is hard for me to make a decision one way or another. Since I am not very artistic, nor blue-collared, I think I will get a college degree. Most things I'm interested in pay relatively well anyway, and like I posted previously, I am going to take a few CS classes at least, because I already know that I have potential with programming and software is a good fallback. Also, like I said, I may be interested in a PhD, so it may not be a great idea to focus on jobs over subject material.
On February 02 2014 13:05 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. But this is true of most if not every field atm. From a purely practical POV, a PhD really isn't worth the effort you put into it (saying this as someone in a PhD program right now). On the other hand, if you like what you do ... OP, I'd suggest just exploring ... it's good and all to have people tell you that you should do X or you should do Y and "I hate X because Z and you will too!" but in the end it's such an individual choice. Plus, you're going to hate at least one thing about whatever you end up doing, just depends on how much you weigh that hatred, so to speak. Also when you're 17, you're basically trapped in a bubble where you don't consider less traditional paths, so it's hard to have much perspective unless you do a lot of exploring on your own (or talk to nontraditional peeps). If you want my personal rec though, I'd totally say go for bio and become a field biologist (maybe an ornithologist). Yeah, not useful at all, which just goes to show ... individual choice. EDIT: And lol @ the guy who said that econ/law/lib arts attracts superficial people.
One of the reasons I opened this blog is just to hear what people like and dislike. Obviously I am going to be making MY choice for MYself, but I want to simultaneously hear about things that I don't know much about (such as BioE) and any potential negatives to things I am familiar with (medicine). I do hope to do exploring but currently with my living situation I really can't.
On February 02 2014 13:06 KazeHydra wrote:
Computer Science - if you are even half decent at this or enjoy it to some degree, you will very likely get a job. everyone wants cs majors, even companies that aren't cs focused. Even if you choose not to do cs, I highly recommend taking a few basic classes. It's a very sought after and needed skill. This is just an anecdote but my friend majored in poli sci, only took a few cs classes, yet is now working a cs related job. So technically his major did nothing but those few classes landed him the job.
Physics - liking physics a lot would be one thing. just being good at physics, however, is more indicative that you'd excel at (and enjoy) some kind of engineering than pure physics itself.
Biomedical engineering - okay, if my experience as a bioengineering student has taught me one thing, it's that this field is waaaay too diverse. You can take any other science, and apply it to medicine and engineering and you have a much more specific field. For example, I eventually found out I prefer biochemical engineering while I hate mechanobioengineering. Personally, I think bioengineering programs need some work to better prep students but it also depends if you know what you want to specialize in or not (you clearly don't atm). That said, technology continues to move toward incorporating all other sciences toward biomedical uses. It's a very promising and growing field, especially by the time you finish your degree(s). Particularly because it incorporates so many sciences together, it's really interesting for people who can't choose between engineering/biology/chem/etc. because you get to learn about basically all of it (which is also a problem because of the need to teach so much compared to other fields).
Medicine/Biology - don't do this. The majority of people going into this don't know what they're getting into and end up hating it or dropping out. The ones who stay really love this field or at least are willing to work hard enough to be a doctor. People like you who are thinking of several different options aside from biology/medicine are going to like something else far more than bio.
Good to hear about CS. Regarding physics, I do like it, though in a field that is probably one of the most interesting and thus probably one of the most competitive (space exploration and stuff). I REALLY hope that I end up going to Caltech since they have a ton of physics professors doing work with NASA. It would be an amazing opportunity to be able to work with some of them.
I think that I would like biochemical engineering too! My parents are pharmacists so I've been around drug discussions and pharmaceutical info and doctors all my life. Because of the way drug patents work, it seems very lucrative to get into something like drug design, protein synthesis, delivery mechanisms, etc. One thing I have heard, however, is that a lot of bioE students are also premed and that premeds are not typically the most academically curious students and are often competitive in a bad way (not helping, even sabotaging). Are these kinds of people prevalent in your experience? Also, what are job prospects like for BioE majors with only a BSE?
On February 02 2014 13:37 SlayerS_BoxxY wrote:
Don't listen to people who say "don't do this."
You sound like a curious person… follow your interests, not the trends or the money.
I'm a biology PhD student, over saturated, bad job market, low pay, whatever… I love my work!
Hehe one of my interests is also money, though I'm not a material person so I don't need a ton per se. I've come into contact with biology postdocs and they seem simultaneously chill and stressed, if that makes sense. One of the problems about being curious, though, is that I can't study everything. I laid out a theoretical first semester college schedule for all the classes I wanted/had to take at a random uni and it totaled up to 22 hours with 3 hours of lab, which people... don't recommend for freshmen (though my dad something close to this and was fine). It's just so hard to eliminate choices.
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On February 02 2014 06:32 HaRuHi wrote:Show nested quote +I'm also afraid that I am simply good at computation and not creative problem solving I view the fields you listed as Math and applied Math. The latter defnitly requires a more common skillset, but you will encounter creative problem solving aswell. As for you type-A personality and competitiveness, choose math if you decide that the only competition that matters is the competition against yourself. That it does not matter if someone is better than you in that field, as long as you are the best variation of yourself. If you thrive on open competition, go for applied Math, and stay away from academia, it is, on the highest level, much more about cooperation than competition. While in the "industry" you can make much more money more easily, be competitiv and enjoy your type-A personality probably more. I would probably suggest either Law or Economics in that case. Your verbal skills will come in very handy going for law, you'd meet a lot of type-A personalities and live in a competitiv field. Economics are similar too law, you actually don't have to fear any creative problem solving and in the end it will come down to social engenieering more than anything else, making your achivements almost irrelevant (as for being the best while studying). The reason why I always pick Math over any subject are actually the female students, nowhere else will you find more beautiful, innocent and weird girls.
Finding girls in math classes LAMO
At which uni do u go to everyones knows all the chicks are in psychology and in poli science
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On February 02 2014 14:09 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 06:32 HaRuHi wrote:I'm also afraid that I am simply good at computation and not creative problem solving I view the fields you listed as Math and applied Math. The latter defnitly requires a more common skillset, but you will encounter creative problem solving aswell. As for you type-A personality and competitiveness, choose math if you decide that the only competition that matters is the competition against yourself. That it does not matter if someone is better than you in that field, as long as you are the best variation of yourself. If you thrive on open competition, go for applied Math, and stay away from academia, it is, on the highest level, much more about cooperation than competition. While in the "industry" you can make much more money more easily, be competitiv and enjoy your type-A personality probably more. I would probably suggest either Law or Economics in that case. Your verbal skills will come in very handy going for law, you'd meet a lot of type-A personalities and live in a competitiv field. Economics are similar too law, you actually don't have to fear any creative problem solving and in the end it will come down to social engenieering more than anything else, making your achivements almost irrelevant (as for being the best while studying). The reason why I always pick Math over any subject are actually the female students, nowhere else will you find more beautiful, innocent and weird girls. Finding girls in math classes LAMO At which uni do u go to everyones knows all the chicks are in psychology and in poli science
I know...it's so true. I'm in fourth year and there may be 1-3 males in the class with 20 females, even in neurobiology and neuroscience. Lots of people in my psych classes say they're going into education.
I've been taking several comp sci courses over the degree along with my own projects on the side. Anyone know of any cross over between Psych, Comp Sci, and Philosophy?
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Psych is definitely the place to go for the girls. There was a ratio of like 8:1 at my old uni.
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if you want to work in the hedge fund/ big banks industry having an economics degree won't help you. a computer science degree or a math one will.
Just my two cents.
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On February 02 2014 14:05 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 13:06 KazeHydra wrote:
Computer Science - if you are even half decent at this or enjoy it to some degree, you will very likely get a job. everyone wants cs majors, even companies that aren't cs focused. Even if you choose not to do cs, I highly recommend taking a few basic classes. It's a very sought after and needed skill. This is just an anecdote but my friend majored in poli sci, only took a few cs classes, yet is now working a cs related job. So technically his major did nothing but those few classes landed him the job.
Physics - liking physics a lot would be one thing. just being good at physics, however, is more indicative that you'd excel at (and enjoy) some kind of engineering than pure physics itself.
Biomedical engineering - okay, if my experience as a bioengineering student has taught me one thing, it's that this field is waaaay too diverse. You can take any other science, and apply it to medicine and engineering and you have a much more specific field. For example, I eventually found out I prefer biochemical engineering while I hate mechanobioengineering. Personally, I think bioengineering programs need some work to better prep students but it also depends if you know what you want to specialize in or not (you clearly don't atm). That said, technology continues to move toward incorporating all other sciences toward biomedical uses. It's a very promising and growing field, especially by the time you finish your degree(s). Particularly because it incorporates so many sciences together, it's really interesting for people who can't choose between engineering/biology/chem/etc. because you get to learn about basically all of it (which is also a problem because of the need to teach so much compared to other fields).
Medicine/Biology - don't do this. The majority of people going into this don't know what they're getting into and end up hating it or dropping out. The ones who stay really love this field or at least are willing to work hard enough to be a doctor. People like you who are thinking of several different options aside from biology/medicine are going to like something else far more than bio. Good to hear about CS. Regarding physics, I do like it, though in a field that is probably one of the most interesting and thus probably one of the most competitive (space exploration and stuff). I REALLY hope that I end up going to Caltech since they have a ton of physics professors doing work with NASA. It would be an amazing opportunity to be able to work with some of them. I think that I would like biochemical engineering too! My parents are pharmacists so I've been around drug discussions and pharmaceutical info and doctors all my life. Because of the way drug patents work, it seems very lucrative to get into something like drug design, protein synthesis, delivery mechanisms, etc. One thing I have heard, however, is that a lot of bioE students are also premed and that premeds are not typically the most academically curious students and are often competitive in a bad way (not helping, even sabotaging). Are these kinds of people prevalent in your experience? Also, what are job prospects like for BioE majors with only a BSE?
I can't speak about the physics field beyond what I already said since I was the kind of person who hated the topic but was still good at it.
Yes, drug design is soooo interesting to me but the process is awful. Some people spend 10+ years of their life on a single drug only for it to fail. However, that is not necessarily the direction you have to go with biochemical engineering. There are many large biotech companies which, although they design drugs, also already have their own drugs on the market. So it's not like you're guaranteed to be stuck hoping your drug passes clinical trials and FDA approval. With larger companies, it's more of a "it would be great if this works" as opposed to "I'm going to hate life if this fails." There are still pluses and minuses to wherever you want to take such a degree, but it is not limited to such tedious options (which tend to be more research focused than industry focused). As for the students, well, yes they exist but I don't think they are very prevalent. Perhaps it depends on the school (not that I'm knowledgeable about student affairs of other schools)? I'll just say don't let such people stop you from pursuing something you want.
Jobs is a tough one, mainly because the status changes quickly. 5 years ago it was really tough to get a job. Now, it's certainly easier but they still really prefer MS. There are more jobs, but it's just so competitive. You can't expect to just graduate off only a BS and get a job, but it's not like it can't happen. But by the time you're done? Who knows. I don't want to give false hope and say "it's only going to get better from here!" but if things continue in this direction, it will be better in 4-5 years. But this said, it still depends on what kind of bioE. I'm speaking mostly from a biochemE perspective, so I'm not too sure about jobs that are more mechanical or electrical orientated, for example.
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On February 02 2014 14:38 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 14:09 Darkren wrote:On February 02 2014 06:32 HaRuHi wrote:I'm also afraid that I am simply good at computation and not creative problem solving I view the fields you listed as Math and applied Math. The latter defnitly requires a more common skillset, but you will encounter creative problem solving aswell. As for you type-A personality and competitiveness, choose math if you decide that the only competition that matters is the competition against yourself. That it does not matter if someone is better than you in that field, as long as you are the best variation of yourself. If you thrive on open competition, go for applied Math, and stay away from academia, it is, on the highest level, much more about cooperation than competition. While in the "industry" you can make much more money more easily, be competitiv and enjoy your type-A personality probably more. I would probably suggest either Law or Economics in that case. Your verbal skills will come in very handy going for law, you'd meet a lot of type-A personalities and live in a competitiv field. Economics are similar too law, you actually don't have to fear any creative problem solving and in the end it will come down to social engenieering more than anything else, making your achivements almost irrelevant (as for being the best while studying). The reason why I always pick Math over any subject are actually the female students, nowhere else will you find more beautiful, innocent and weird girls. Finding girls in math classes LAMO At which uni do u go to everyones knows all the chicks are in psychology and in poli science I know...it's so true. I'm in fourth year and there may be 1-3 males in the class with 20 females, even in neurobiology and neuroscience. Lots of people in my psych classes say they're going into education. I've been taking several comp sci courses over the degree along with my own projects on the side. Anyone know of any cross over between Psych, Comp Sci, and Philosophy?
Cognitive Science, broadly, and personally I enjoy studying artificial intelligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_science
Historically, there's been some interesting crossover of ideas between biological psychology and reinforcement learning in AI. Studying AI also gives you some interesting subjects to reflect on from a philosophy perspective as well.
Cognitive Science in general is a very broad field, so there's a lot of things to learn about, even just on the more CS side, there's AI, Natural Language Processing, Computer Vision, etc.
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Um, is it really true that CS is high demand with not many job applicants?
I mean, it's well possible that it's true right now...
But people have been saying that for several years...
So wouldn't demand start getting filled by now, becuase you have so many people saying that it's awesome field for ez jobs? So like by the time Chocolate is done with college, it will be low demand high number of applicants?
Or am i just being a fool ;-;
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If you want to challenge yourself and study some of the most brilliant ideas we humans ever had. Do Math. Math is really interesting. I can't look at classes like Calculus the same anymore. To me in that class you are nothing more than a robot following steps to solve a problem. Almost no creativity is necessary and it's hellishly boring. The only thing I could ever find interesting besides Math is Computer Science.
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STEM degrees have pretty decent versatility, but you should still have ideas as to some possible occupations based off your major's degrees (not just the major itself) that you could see yourself doing in 5-10 years, For example, math is one of your major interests (that was my major as well), but think about what you might want to do with a math degree. Research? Teach? I had always wanted to be an educator, so after my bachelor's in math I got a master's in math education and I'm currently doing my doctorate in math education as well... but mainly out of necessity, as I later decided to specifically become a college professor instead of a high school teacher, and many universities require a PhD to teach there. (I'm teaching college now alongside my PhD studies.) So if you want to study math (or any other subject), what could you see yourself doing as a relevant occupation? Do you require a graduate degree, etc.
Choose a major based on your passions and future academic/ occupational goals. Do not choose a major based off peripheral and transient ideas, like the boy:girl ratio of your major or how easy the major will be. A college education should prepare you (at least, academically) for the next step in your life, which is starting a job and hopefully making a career out of it. Pretend that you already have a degree in major X, and then think about where'd you go from there. I had many friends who didn't really care what they majored in, so they rolled an easy, quick degree compared to a STEM degree (just to graduate) and now they pretty much have a bachelor's degree in a crappy field with no particular direction in life, and they can't get a job because they essentially took the easy way out (and wasted quite a bit of money).
You're probably fortunate in the fact that plenty of TLers are/ were STEM majors/ STEM-focused students, so we can definitely provide some insight regarding the majors on your top priority list. Let me know if you have any questions about focusing on mathematics or education (despite the latter not being on your list)
EDIT: I know you probably want to get a jump on your major and prepare even before you start college, but don't completely dismiss the idea of taking a few interesting courses as a college freshman, and maybe starting to like a major that you hadn't even considered!
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On February 02 2014 13:05 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. But this is true of most if not every field atm. From a purely practical POV, a PhD really isn't worth the effort you put into it (saying this as someone in a PhD program right now). On the other hand, if you like what you do ... OP, I'd suggest just exploring ... it's good and all to have people tell you that you should do X or you should do Y and "I hate X because Z and you will too!" but in the end it's such an individual choice. Plus, you're going to hate at least one thing about whatever you end up doing, just depends on how much you weigh that hatred, so to speak. Also when you're 17, you're basically trapped in a bubble where you don't consider less traditional paths, so it's hard to have much perspective unless you do a lot of exploring on your own (or talk to nontraditional peeps). If you want my personal rec though, I'd totally say go for bio and become a field biologist (maybe an ornithologist). Yeah, not useful at all, which just goes to show ... individual choice. EDIT: And lol @ the guy who said that econ/law/lib arts attracts superficial people.
The rest of the PhD fields aren't as bad as the STEM PhDs right now. I'm fortunate that the field I choose is actually one of the few that has been growing for the past decade and will continue to do so.
On February 02 2014 12:04 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. Are you saying not to get a PhD at all, or to get a PhD in the social sciences or humanities? I don't want to just have a PhD so that I can call myself a doctor, I would like a PhD so that I could become really good at something that interests me.
I'm neither recommending nor discouraging you from getting your PhD. This is a decision that you will need to think long and hard about and I'm not quite sure at 17 you're even close to consider it. It's long hours, a lot of work, inadequate pay but can be highly rewarding and satisfying if you enjoy research and the process of discovery. Thank the lord I have roughly a year to go. If you're seriously interested, try getting involved in undergraduate research and find a mentor.
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On February 02 2014 08:27 Chocolate wrote:
I was thinking about tutoring during UG (though for $, I don't like volunteer tutoring because the students are uninterested and I hate it) and maybe studying at a European university for a bit. Is there anything in addition that you would recommend?
Just in general learn as much as you can about as many things as you can. Particularly if you're in a field where everyone is skilled at the subject, one way to stand out is to have a bunch of skills that your peers do not. Opportunities come through the people you know more so than your abilities (of course ability matters, but you have to get in the door first). People will like and help you if you are useful to them. So go ahead and learn general stuff like sports, languages, gardening, fixing cars, editing papers etc.. whatever sounds remotely interesting.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On February 02 2014 06:17 NeuroticPsychosis wrote:
Higher level math courses are a pain. Pure math gets so abstract after a certain point that you have to be a real genius to even attempt to understand it, let alone excel at it. You're better off doing something that involves application of mathematics and logic.
Computer science and engineering --- ideal and very high demand fields (lots of jobs, not enough qualified people to fill those jobs). If you enjoy math and logic you will like it very much.
Chemistry --- don't do it unless you're leaning towards medicine, pharmacy, or biochemistry (or biomedical engineering which you listed as a possibility). To be honest, any of these fields will require a chemistry background (maybe just a few classes) as a prerequisite. But don't go down the purely chemistry road.
Physics / astronomy --- again, this is almost entirely application of mathematics (at a higher level of course; lower level physics/astronomy courses will be largely descriptive and less analytical). Unless you want to become a physics teacher in high school, or eventually get a PhD in physics and teach in college, don't do physics. You're better off going into engineering which is where physics students usually end up if they aren't interested in the academic route. But if you are really passionate about physics and have a strong mathematics background I won't dissuade you from pursuing this option.
Law --- don't do it. You will be miserable for the rest of your life. The market is oversaturated with lawyers as it is.
Economics --- this is a "social science" which means that if you like science you will hate economics. I majored in economics, worst decision of my life. Most of the classes in the first 2 or 3 years you take can be learn from wikipedia. Higher level economics is basically simple calculus concepts. Econometrics is only one class, and that's more calculus and statistics than anything else. Again, it is very abstract at the higher level. But unlike engineering or physics, it's all a bunch of theory and concepts that have very few concrete applications apart from academia. Math is at the very least more interesting. And unless you're the chairman of the Federal Reserve you'd honestly be better off getting a degree in English.
You should probably choose between computer science and electrical / biomedical / biochemical engineering. Physics is an option if you're really passionate about it.
@OP: dont listen to this guy. This is such bad advice, i don't even know where to start... (from a physics PhD student who has taken chemistry, math and information courses...)
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To be honest it sounds like you really like the math and sciences so why not go in with a more general sense towards that field.
Here's what I mean:
No matter what major you choose, you still have to study all the related fields to at least some extent. Go to your school, sign up for the entry level math, bio, chem, and phys classes and start working on getting the those classes out of the way and hopefully you'll narrow down which one's your favorite in the process. By the time you end up having to choose between which upper division classes you're going for it will be a few quarters into college so there's plenty of time to think about it.
If the end goal of a job is your concern, narrow it down between being a lab tech/research tech, working in the field (being outside all the time) or if you want to deal with customer service/sales/face to face shit all the time. Helps a lot when choosing what field you want to commit with. The sciences will keep you more in isolation from the general public if you prefer that, I know I do .
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On February 02 2014 17:48 GTPGlitch wrote:
Um, is it really true that CS is high demand with not many job applicants?
I mean, it's well possible that it's true right now...
But people have been saying that for several years...
So wouldn't demand start getting filled by now, becuase you have so many people saying that it's awesome field for ez jobs? So like by the time Chocolate is done with college, it will be low demand high number of applicants?
Or am i just being a fool ;-;
It's still by most accounts pretty strong right now - as a software engineering student I can say that everyone I talk to is very optimistic, from other students to professionals to professors. It's more demanding than a lot of people expect though - I've seen a ton of kids drop out of my classes over the last couple years because it wasn't the 'office job guaranteed, 100k npnp' they thought it was going to be. It still takes a lot of effort and passion to do well in CS - that's one of the reasons it's not too hard to find a job if you do.
edit: as far as the actual decision-making process goes, my advice to people who are in the same position as you (as a high school math tutor I see a lot of them) is ALWAYS this - do not go to school for a degree. A degree is useless unless it lets you do some work you otherwise wouldn't have been able to. I see so many kids three years into their degrees that they're sort of into, but they don't have any idea of the work that's available for them when they get out, and that's the wrong way to do it.
You can do plenty of things even without a university degree - if you decide that you really want one, you should have a job in mind that your degree will allow you to get, because that takes all the guesswork out of it. It's easy to look at a job description and say 'wow, that sounds really fun, and they say I need a BSc in X'. It's really, really hard to look at all the degrees out there, and say 'wow, one of those specific things sounds really cool, and that's what I want to do for the rest of my life' as the first decision you make.
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i study math at a technical university. there are many girls who also study, 30 % or so and there are a lot of people whom you cant call nerds. I love math and love my studys, but i dont know how it is for someone whos merely good at it and only motivated to some point.
if you want to be hyped for Biomedicine, play Deus Ex 
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On February 03 2014 00:14 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 13:05 babylon wrote:On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. But this is true of most if not every field atm. From a purely practical POV, a PhD really isn't worth the effort you put into it (saying this as someone in a PhD program right now). On the other hand, if you like what you do ... OP, I'd suggest just exploring ... it's good and all to have people tell you that you should do X or you should do Y and "I hate X because Z and you will too!" but in the end it's such an individual choice. Plus, you're going to hate at least one thing about whatever you end up doing, just depends on how much you weigh that hatred, so to speak. Also when you're 17, you're basically trapped in a bubble where you don't consider less traditional paths, so it's hard to have much perspective unless you do a lot of exploring on your own (or talk to nontraditional peeps). If you want my personal rec though, I'd totally say go for bio and become a field biologist (maybe an ornithologist). Yeah, not useful at all, which just goes to show ... individual choice. EDIT: And lol @ the guy who said that econ/law/lib arts attracts superficial people. The rest of the PhD fields aren't as bad as the STEM PhDs right now. I'm fortunate that the field I choose is actually one of the few that has been growing for the past decade and will continue to do so. Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 12:04 Chocolate wrote:On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. Are you saying not to get a PhD at all, or to get a PhD in the social sciences or humanities? I don't want to just have a PhD so that I can call myself a doctor, I would like a PhD so that I could become really good at something that interests me. I'm neither recommending nor discouraging you from getting your PhD. This is a decision that you will need to think long and hard about and I'm not quite sure at 17 you're even close to consider it. It's long hours, a lot of work, inadequate pay but can be highly rewarding and satisfying if you enjoy research and the process of discovery. Thank the lord I have roughly a year to go. If you're seriously interested, try getting involved in undergraduate research and find a mentor.
I am doing a chemistry phd in the US at the moment and I am not really recognising the picture you are painting. Very few groups here have any serious trouble with funding, though a few were hit somewhat by the sequester thing. And of the 4 people who have left the lab since I started 18 months ago everyone have had 6 figure salary jobs lined up. Admittedly I don't pay any attention at all to the US job market at large but yeah, at least anecdotally STEM phds don't seem particularly bad.
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I did physics (well our system is weird, it s a two year intensive math/physics only program with a ranking exam in the end) then electronics engineering (Bachelor) into microelectronics into emebedded electronics for biomedical applications (including microfluidics, artificial organs, neuroscience). That s a good thing to do if you like physics AND medicine but dont want to end up as a physician.
On the other hand, if you do not fancy research that much, dont do this (biomedical engineering for implantable devices), go for medical imaging (which is more CS/medicine and a little physics).
You haven't seen true maths yet. It is extremely abstract (extremely being an understatement). Can you handle a N-dimension vectorial space? 2 of them? N of them? Some people like this field a lot though (not me, although I can work with it).
Can you take basic classes of each (major) field? (online classes are good too). See how you like it. In the end, you are the one choosing.
If you are more into real world evidence and like to "see" the reality of things: physics, chemistry, medicine (and to a lesser extent economics) are all good.
If you prefer abstract things, Maths (and CS as well).
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realisticly the exams in my math studies are a joke in comparison to what we actually learn in the lectures.
usually lectures are really deep stuff, but exams just want to test if you can work with the tools and algorithms.
thats how it is in Munich.
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In my opinion maths is the only subject to do; it's so exciting and mysterious.
One piece of advice I can give to someone who wants, or thinks they want, to take maths seriously is to try and get hold of a book which talks about maths way above your level. Even if it just sits on your shelf if gives you something to aim for and work towards.
I wish I had done this earlier than I did. I once had to read 1 page from this little book A Course in Arithmetic; just browsing through the rest and seeing all this weird stuff was really motivating. Right now I really want to read Katz, Mazur; somehow having a goal like this makes it much easier to work through the pretty dense texts on alg. geometry which are prerequisite.
As for worrying about whether or not you are good enough; I don't feel this is important. It's the volume of work you put in that matters.
I can't speak on practical matters such as getting jobs, etc, I have no experience in such things
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On February 03 2014 16:39 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 00:14 Dknight wrote:On February 02 2014 13:05 babylon wrote:On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. But this is true of most if not every field atm. From a purely practical POV, a PhD really isn't worth the effort you put into it (saying this as someone in a PhD program right now). On the other hand, if you like what you do ... OP, I'd suggest just exploring ... it's good and all to have people tell you that you should do X or you should do Y and "I hate X because Z and you will too!" but in the end it's such an individual choice. Plus, you're going to hate at least one thing about whatever you end up doing, just depends on how much you weigh that hatred, so to speak. Also when you're 17, you're basically trapped in a bubble where you don't consider less traditional paths, so it's hard to have much perspective unless you do a lot of exploring on your own (or talk to nontraditional peeps). If you want my personal rec though, I'd totally say go for bio and become a field biologist (maybe an ornithologist). Yeah, not useful at all, which just goes to show ... individual choice. EDIT: And lol @ the guy who said that econ/law/lib arts attracts superficial people. The rest of the PhD fields aren't as bad as the STEM PhDs right now. I'm fortunate that the field I choose is actually one of the few that has been growing for the past decade and will continue to do so. On February 02 2014 12:04 Chocolate wrote:On February 02 2014 11:25 Dknight wrote:
If you're serious about getting a PhD, don't go the STEM route. Though things may change in the 8-12 years it'd take for you to do it if you went straight BS > MS > PhD but as it stands now the job field is over-saturated and funding has declined lately. I'd recommend checking out biostatistics which gives you the opportunity to combine math and programming (ie., statistical software development via Julia, R, or Python) with still a 'harder' science than say psych, criminology, or sociology. Are you saying not to get a PhD at all, or to get a PhD in the social sciences or humanities? I don't want to just have a PhD so that I can call myself a doctor, I would like a PhD so that I could become really good at something that interests me. I'm neither recommending nor discouraging you from getting your PhD. This is a decision that you will need to think long and hard about and I'm not quite sure at 17 you're even close to consider it. It's long hours, a lot of work, inadequate pay but can be highly rewarding and satisfying if you enjoy research and the process of discovery. Thank the lord I have roughly a year to go. If you're seriously interested, try getting involved in undergraduate research and find a mentor. I am doing a chemistry phd in the US at the moment and I am not really recognising the picture you are painting. Very few groups here have any serious trouble with funding, though a few were hit somewhat by the sequester thing. And of the 4 people who have left the lab since I started 18 months ago everyone have had 6 figure salary jobs lined up. Admittedly I don't pay any attention at all to the US job market at large but yeah, at least anecdotally STEM phds don't seem particularly bad.
My comment was a bit of an overgeneralization. I speak from 4-5 years as a doctoral student with many friends pursuing other degrees and have either finished or are near completion and are looking for work. Two friends, both chemistry PhDs, had a lot of difficulty landing an academic position and they went to a top 10 school, had a competitive CV, etc. If one is really interested in academia than the job market is much harder. If you're looking to go private then I would agree it's much more open. I'm all about academia though. I think it's far too soon to realize the real impact of the sequester cuts but from my understanding, it's had a sizable effect. One of the big issues will be towards innovation. The government funding agencies won't be as likely to take risks on newer projects, plain and sample. Postdocs will have less funding opportunities as well (thankfully, I won't have to be a postdoc when I wrap up next year!).
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