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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:01 saddaromma wrote: tbh, to me, being unhappy with much whining and blaiming whiners for that sounds like hypocricy. Just try to remember how forums were clean and intelligent in bw era, and suddenly it became totally opposite in sc2 era. Do you really think people changed and became worse? Ofc not. There is no other thing to blame than the game itself (or its creators), now you could say, gtfo if you don't like it. We're happy without you bla bla bla. But people cant just quit easily, since they were fond of starcraft so many years, and there is no bw content anymore, thanks to blizzard we're forced to watch sc2 if we want 'starcraft' (though I believe many already left, and only diehard fans stay here). In short, best way to describe it. Starcraft is like a lonely restaurant in a small town, it used to serve good food and now it serves junkfood, Ofc people will complain, since they're left with no other option. Some people already left the town to find other places (LoL, Dota). And only few stay here and still hope that the restaurant may become what once it was (read: Starbow gets own ladder)  Dude, I wasn't here for the BW era. But, having read posts from others who were here at that time, there was quite a lot of whining and crying going on even then. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't as BW for most of its history was a lot worse balance wise than SC2. The only difference was that the smaller population maybe meant that it was less noticeable and good forum influences were able to hold sway (but this is just supposition from me). The difference between then and now may only be one of degree not kind. The other factor, of course, was that Blizzard was deaf to all the crying. So, that was an incentive to, in the end, shut up about whatever issue was keeping you up at night, because Blizzard would not save you and your race. And no-one is forced to watch SC. BW streams and tournaments are still around, and now there is SB. Heck, I've gone through periods where I watch it less because, at times, the game can be boring. There is, after all, so much of it on all the time. But, that does not mean that I hold it against Blizzard that I don't like the game as much at times. Don't like it? Do something else. As to the rest, I disagree. I've watched this game since late 2010/early 2011, and play has gotten better. SC2 is a different game from BW, so the strategies and play styles that evolve from it will take as much time and development as the many deep and varied strategies and styles of BW. The food was good. And the food is even better now than before. Edit/ Anyway, I won't be continuing this. It would be an ironic derailment of Zealously's cbf anymore hiatus from TL thread. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
1) We know Blizzard is afraid to make make changes (too lazy, too detached, too corporate-whatever) 2) We know Blizzard wants to be the good guys 3) We know that when the shit hits the fan, they get of their asses and do as their customers wish. I mean, do I need to paint a picture? It all makes sense. If people want something (a better game) they have to bitch and whine loud enough, so their parents (Blizzard) get to the point of feeling judged by strangers about how they clearly mistreat their kids. What do parents do then? Put up with the hassle of explaining shit, while tantrums are thrown? Hell no, they´re busy wasting away in their 50 hour jobs thinking about the life they could´ve had if they hadn´t been too drunk to bother with condoms that one night. So, under the ominous looks of old ladies, who start to sigh an awful lot in their direction, they realize their options with regard to shutting the brat up: a) Explain in a reasonable way that there are factors outside of their kid´s reach, like having to earn a living and take care of other shit that keeps their lives running, which make its demand unreasonable. b) Give in to the immediate urge of smacking that egoistical maniac in the mouth and show him whose boss, which, while being satisfying on an instinctual level, would lead to problems with old ladies who would have to be smacked as well then, and also leave a bad taste in one´s mouth because of how poorly that rampant misbehavior reflects on one´s own educational efforts, which were lacking to say the least, because why take care of something one didn´t want in the first place? c) Stuff that screaming hole with some ice-cream so mummy and daddy can ponder their headaches and life-decisions in peace. In the light of sudden patches that, while made with a straight face and an air of independent decision-making (like "I bought you just that toy not because you nagged me out of my mind, but because I thought it would be cool. So don´t think you could blackmail me."), we have learned that demands will be met, when a critical mass of toxicity is reached. So, in order to reach the lala-land of a perfectly balanced game like there were none before, people have to bitch and whine as much as possible, no breaks. Naturally Blizzard´s tolerance increases with every tantrum, every "you´re not my real parents, I hate you", every "this sucks, I´m gonna kill myself, and it´s your fault", so they become less likely to give in to the same amount of pressure. So, people, you gotta pump up the volume, make a scene out on the street, where everybody can see it and feel self-conscious. Eventually they´ll give in, buff tanks, make Collosi fly, whatever is "the worst thing ever!" at the moment. Just because they want you to shut up, before other grown ups start to decline invitations, giving dubious excuses, like "something just came up, but we´ll definitely keep in touch. No it´s not because of your asshole-kid, it´s just, you know, something...". The thing is, because SC2 is a complex game where turning one wheel can mean that other wheels one didn´t even know start screwing up, no patch will make the game perfect as it´s supposed to be. The only sensible way to go about it, is to keep the pressure up. Whine and bitch and moan all the time, so the changes and eventual entry into paradise stay close. If not, Blizzard will get complacent again and think of other things than containing the rage-fire. The atmosphere must remain toxic, so they´re afraid people will abandon ship, and are forced to act and the game is improved. In the end, all the balance-whining, self-entitlement and toxicity only serves the higher purpose to increase the fun. Fighting! | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:13 Dodgin wrote: A couple things, the BW forums were nothing like you describe, and BW is still going on with SSL and soon GOM Classic. 1. I was trying to say forums were much better. my wording/phrasing wasn't good. 2. I know bw tournaments are going on. But they're nothing like SPL, OSL or MSL. Besides they don't get covered/highlighted/featured much. All in all, my arguments still holds. Instead of complaining about whiners you should look into core problem, meaning WHINING is effect, GAME FLAWS are the cause. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:21 aZealot wrote: + Show Spoiler + Dude, I wasn't here for the BW era. But, having read posts from others who were here at that time, there was quite a lot of whining and crying going on even then. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't as BW for most of its history was a lot worse balance wise than SC2. The only difference was that the smaller population maybe meant that it was less noticeable and good forum influences were able to hold sway (but this is just supposition from me). The difference between then and now may only be one of degree not kind. The other factor, of course, was that Blizzard was deaf to all the crying. So, that was an incentive to, in the end, shut up about whatever issue was keeping you up at night, because Blizzard would not save you and your race. And no-one is forced to watch SC. BW streams and tournaments are still around, and now there is SB. Heck, I've gone through periods where I watch it less because, at times, the game can be boring. There is, after all, so much of it on all the time. But, that does not mean that I hold it against Blizzard that I don't like the game as much at times. Don't like it? Do something else. As to the rest, I disagree. I've watched this game since late 2010/early 2011, and it has gotten better. SC2 is a different game from BW, so the strategies and play styles that evolve from it will take as much time and development as the many deep and varied strategies and styles of BW. The food was good. And the food is even better now than before. Edit/ Anyway, I won't be continuing this. It would be an ironic derailment of Zealously's cbf anymore hiatus from TL thread. I'm sorry for you if you weren't here in BW era. You missed a great time, back in the days sun was always shining and people were pleasant and warm in TL. Anyway, here is a random LR thread I clicked, I didn't specifically search. And here is the list of OSL championships, check their LR threads, and I guarantee you at 90%, you'll see nothing like balance complaints, game bashing or general shit posting. | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6169 Posts
This makes no sense, unless... | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:50 felisconcolori wrote: So now you went from having a writer's pen to a mod's hammer, Zealously. This makes no sense, unless... | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:29 saddaromma wrote: 1. I was trying to say forums were much better. my wording/phrasing wasn't good. 2. I know bw tournaments are going on. But they're nothing like SPL, OSL or MSL. Besides they don't get covered/highlighted/featured much. All in all, my arguments still holds. Instead of complaining about whiners you should look into core problem, meaning WHINING is effect, GAME FLAWS are the cause. I think you should read the OP once again. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:42 saddaromma wrote: I'm sorry for you if you weren't here in BW era. You missed a great time, back in the days sun was always shining and people were pleasant and warm in TL. Anyway, here is a random LR thread I clicked, I didn't specifically search. And here is the list of OSL championships, check their LR threads, and I guarantee you at 90%, you'll see nothing like balance complaints, game bashing or general shit posting. Right, and if I do a quick search in BW general I come up with this and this. I didn't look through too much of that LR but I'd expect there to be minimal crying about a game 8 years after Blizzard last patched the game and after they had made it clear they did not give a damn about win rates. So, I am not sure what that is meant to prove other than what I talked about in my reply to your post. A difference of degree not kind and a different environment from different circumstances. So, no, you are wrong. It has little to do with the game and a lot more to do with people's sense of self-entitlement. And even if it did have to do with the game, it does not make it right nor that if you don't like it, you get to flood the forum with tears. Ironically enough, your posts are just what the OP is talking about. But, meh, I really am done now. | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:27 vOdToasT wrote: I just came back from browsing the SC2 section a bit. Wow. The SC2 community complains more about its own game than any other I have ever seen. I honestly wonder why they play it. It's not like most of them are making money off of it. How can these people, who dislike it so much, play it for fun? Seriously 90% of the complainers don't even play the game, that's the sad part of the story. Sadly bashing the game has become a sport since a year or so. The people that just play the game have largely left TL because they don't to argue with idiots anymore, they only read articles but thats it. There is also good discussion, but whenever it touches weak points of SC2's design, magically some so called "fans" appear and turn the thread into a bashfest. I wonder what happened.I took a one year break from TL and when I came back everything had turned to not-quite-shit-but-close-enough. But the by far worst thing for me (unrelated): No new Gambit Cup in sight T-T. I NEED MY FOREIGN BW TEAM LEAGUES :'( | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On January 23 2014 18:05 aZealot wrote: Right, and if I do a quick search in BW general I come up with this and this. I didn't look through too much of that LR but I'd expect there to be minimal crying about a game 8 years after Blizzard last patched the game and after they had made it clear they did not give a damn about win rates. So, I am not sure what that is meant to prove other than what I talked about in my reply to your post. A difference of degree not kind and a different environment from different circumstances. So, no, you are wrong. It has little to do with the game and a lot more to do with people's sense of self-entitlement. And even if it did have to do with the game, it does not make it right nor that if you don't like it, you get to flood the forum with tears. Ironically enough, your posts are just what the OP is talking about. But, meh, I really am done now. Ok, so you specifically searched threads with word 'balance' or 'patch'. Well done sherlock. But you get C- for your homework, because: a) both threads are not locked and died naturally. b) there are only 5-6 pages in each of them. Clearly balance topic wasn't popular back then and was raised only by few indviduals. (as I said ~90% of forum back then was fine) Compare it to the astonishing 17760 posts balance discussion thread or David Kim's thoughts which are both being heatedly discussed like forever. And by the way, I'm not flooding the forum with tears. Please stop wrong accusation and don't start flame wars. Be constructive and less toxic. No need of 'I am leaving, I'm done'. If you can't handle yourself, maybe you shouldn't be posting here. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On January 23 2014 17:55 Shellshock wrote: Pandemona is totally going to get banned for his next Zealously poll No silly, i have you my darling Shellbot <3 you shall protect me and my CJ Curse polls till you power down <3 ALL HAIL SHELLBOT!!   | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
Your life will be fine then | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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TheEmulator
28103 Posts
Uh Oh. Zealously have mercy on us. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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FrodaN
754 Posts
Riot stagnates its own meta. They _still_ haven't released a god damn replay system. Tribunal punishments are often wrong. EUW Server instability. Valve didn't give Diretide. SEA servers were unstable. Long-ass queue times. Russians everywhere. Activision dumbed down their game even more with Ghosts. Ghillie suits are op. Lots of the perks are dumb. Hitboxes are different. Maps suck. No individual skill. Random lag spikes. Melee/Project M/BW/Diablo 2/1.6/Halo123/WoW Vanilla/insertwhateveroldergametosoundhipster was better. The vast majority of my friends who still watch SC2 still love it, even though they don't watch it much anymore. Hanging out on forums naturally lends itself to arguments, disagreements, and venting. It's the god damn internet. Unless...you're counter-meta-trolling by reverse whining about the whiners. In that case, bravo. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
>.> | ||
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