• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:44
CEST 02:44
KST 09:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2027 users

PvZ: My Achilles Heel

Blogs > KatatoniK
Post a Reply
KatatoniK
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom978 Posts
December 01 2013 13:34 GMT
#1
Yesterday was the highlight of my SC2 ladder career so far, I made it into 3rd in my division with my modified version of PartinG's Chargelot/Archon timing build tearing through Terran and some fairly early DTs to edge out in PvP.

Then came along three PvZs in a row and three losses in a row to knock me back down to 7th place, after the 3rd loss I took a step back and thought, "where did it go wrong?"

I came up with several ideas as to why, firstly, PvZ is a rare thing for me to get into on ladder, I mostly end up in PvTs or PvPs so a lack of experience in the match-up hurts me a little. Secondly, two of my builds from the 3 were made up on the spot and weren't particularly good. (I had tried a 3gate stargate in the second which I butchered so horribly it was almost impressive!)

Then the big reason hit me, my mentality in the match. Facing Zerg scares me if I'm honest, it's the most flexible race, at least in my opinion, and it can switch tech when it sees fit in reaction to what is thrown at it. It's also a race that benefits from their opponents sitting back and turtling (which I have a habit of doing as a Protoss)

In Bronze, I expect a Zerg to cheese in the form a 6/7 pool, or fairly simple builds such as a baneling bust or a 1 base roach. Sometimes I even think about them going mass muta. I also go into a PvZ thinking that I can't outmacro. Prolonged PvZ is a nightmare for me, I very rarely harrass and letting a Zerg get lots of bases isn't a good idea so I go for quick timing attacks/allins and cross my fingers hoping it works. There's also the fact Zerg can remax very easily if they have the economy.

Given my fear of cheese, I block off my main, leaving me no choice but to embark on the path of 1 base builds leaving me stuck on whatever tech I go with, if the Zerg figures out my build, I am doomed.

The more I write and think about this, the more I think why I dislike facing Zerg, it's not that their OP cause they're not, it's just I have so much to think about my brain just starts to flail around in blind panic. PvZ for me is different to PvT and PvP, those two match-ups are all about making sure my BO is correct (or in the case of PvP, hoping I won the coin flip) but for PvZ, it's more a fight with myself mentally to stay calm and not spend a ton of time going "what if they do this?" "What if they figure out what I'm doing and switch to this?" "Would this be better against this?"

**
Flying on the Jin Air hype plane. Lets go Maru, Rogue, sOs and the handsome CJ herO
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45975 Posts
December 01 2013 14:18 GMT
#2
If you're that worried about bronze-level PvZ, just stick to an early forge (12 supply) and then expand behind it; create a wall-off in front of your natural and have a cannon behind it for defense.

Then just try your best to scout and keep macroing well. Get an early sentry in case you need to use forcefield for defense or hallucinate a phoenix for intel (especially if your probe keeps getting denied).

And just don't let your army get surrounded when you're out in the middle of the map.

Good luck!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12720 Posts
December 01 2013 17:37 GMT
#3
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45975 Posts
December 01 2013 22:13 GMT
#4
On December 02 2013 02:37 ETisME wrote:
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.


And against Terrans too, right? Just get +1 armor vs. Terran instead of your +1 weapons vs. Zerg.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
December 02 2013 00:08 GMT
#5
Mass VR Colo with whatever ground suits your needs seems to work for me in gold, get a few early phoenix to discourage muta's you can drop another stargate and pump out VR's and be safe against muta either way. Get a few early immo's to push back a roach rush. I mean this is obviously not a great BO but it has worked very well in Gold, I found unless I go this or fast blink colo you will just die to muta every time.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 02 2013 00:38 GMT
#6
Three losses in a row!? That's intense!
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Adtor
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada82 Posts
December 02 2013 11:20 GMT
#7
lol it's funny because I have the same mentality as a zerg facing protoss. I feel like any units I make is useless. If protoss gets colossi, it destroys ling, roaches, hydras and going Muta leaves me vulnerable if I didn't get my economy up fast enough and die to most all-ins. You tried dropping in the main and warping zealot to the third? It could damage his economy or distract him while you take your 3rd.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
December 02 2013 20:45 GMT
#8
If you're worried about cheese look into using the YufFE. It worked for me really well back in WoL.

13 Gate(when it finishes make a Zealot)
16 Pylon
19ish Nexus

With the really early Zealot you can pull 4 or so probes and defend the 6 pool no problem, coming out about 7 workers and a base up.

Vs. a 1 base roach you have to make a quick Forge and a lot of cannons, and then abuse your 2 bases.

Vs. a baneling bust... just micro your little heart out. Fall back to 1 base and wall off the ramp completely, with multiple layers of buildings.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#83 (TLMC 22 Edition)
PiGStarcraft587
davetesta28
Psz5
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft587
ProTech71
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5519
Artosis 511
Dota 2
monkeys_forever310
NeuroSwarm146
LuMiX0
League of Legends
Doublelift5365
JimRising 661
Counter-Strike
taco 441
Fnx 60
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe47
Other Games
summit1g14445
tarik_tv5847
FrodaN755
C9.Mang0469
uThermal208
Mew2King154
ViBE124
Maynarde116
UpATreeSC81
JuggernautJason30
minikerr2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1112
Counter-Strike
PGL263
Other Games
BasetradeTV224
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 64
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1240
• Scarra972
Upcoming Events
GSL
8h 46m
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
14h 16m
Replay Cast
23h 16m
GSL
1d 8h
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 11h
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
1d 18h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
3 days
IPSL
3 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.