• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:55
CEST 00:55
KST 07:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE10Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b7IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"8ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!41
StarCraft 2
General
Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Terran or Protoss Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL22 General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Star Con San Diego 2026 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2026-27 Football Thread placeholder 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10592 users

PvZ: My Achilles Heel

Blogs > KatatoniK
Post a Reply
KatatoniK
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom978 Posts
December 01 2013 13:34 GMT
#1
Yesterday was the highlight of my SC2 ladder career so far, I made it into 3rd in my division with my modified version of PartinG's Chargelot/Archon timing build tearing through Terran and some fairly early DTs to edge out in PvP.

Then came along three PvZs in a row and three losses in a row to knock me back down to 7th place, after the 3rd loss I took a step back and thought, "where did it go wrong?"

I came up with several ideas as to why, firstly, PvZ is a rare thing for me to get into on ladder, I mostly end up in PvTs or PvPs so a lack of experience in the match-up hurts me a little. Secondly, two of my builds from the 3 were made up on the spot and weren't particularly good. (I had tried a 3gate stargate in the second which I butchered so horribly it was almost impressive!)

Then the big reason hit me, my mentality in the match. Facing Zerg scares me if I'm honest, it's the most flexible race, at least in my opinion, and it can switch tech when it sees fit in reaction to what is thrown at it. It's also a race that benefits from their opponents sitting back and turtling (which I have a habit of doing as a Protoss)

In Bronze, I expect a Zerg to cheese in the form a 6/7 pool, or fairly simple builds such as a baneling bust or a 1 base roach. Sometimes I even think about them going mass muta. I also go into a PvZ thinking that I can't outmacro. Prolonged PvZ is a nightmare for me, I very rarely harrass and letting a Zerg get lots of bases isn't a good idea so I go for quick timing attacks/allins and cross my fingers hoping it works. There's also the fact Zerg can remax very easily if they have the economy.

Given my fear of cheese, I block off my main, leaving me no choice but to embark on the path of 1 base builds leaving me stuck on whatever tech I go with, if the Zerg figures out my build, I am doomed.

The more I write and think about this, the more I think why I dislike facing Zerg, it's not that their OP cause they're not, it's just I have so much to think about my brain just starts to flail around in blind panic. PvZ for me is different to PvT and PvP, those two match-ups are all about making sure my BO is correct (or in the case of PvP, hoping I won the coin flip) but for PvZ, it's more a fight with myself mentally to stay calm and not spend a ton of time going "what if they do this?" "What if they figure out what I'm doing and switch to this?" "Would this be better against this?"

**
Flying on the Jin Air hype plane. Lets go Maru, Rogue, sOs and the handsome CJ herO
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46246 Posts
December 01 2013 14:18 GMT
#2
If you're that worried about bronze-level PvZ, just stick to an early forge (12 supply) and then expand behind it; create a wall-off in front of your natural and have a cannon behind it for defense.

Then just try your best to scout and keep macroing well. Get an early sentry in case you need to use forcefield for defense or hallucinate a phoenix for intel (especially if your probe keeps getting denied).

And just don't let your army get surrounded when you're out in the middle of the map.

Good luck!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12818 Posts
December 01 2013 17:37 GMT
#3
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46246 Posts
December 01 2013 22:13 GMT
#4
On December 02 2013 02:37 ETisME wrote:
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.


And against Terrans too, right? Just get +1 armor vs. Terran instead of your +1 weapons vs. Zerg.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
December 02 2013 00:08 GMT
#5
Mass VR Colo with whatever ground suits your needs seems to work for me in gold, get a few early phoenix to discourage muta's you can drop another stargate and pump out VR's and be safe against muta either way. Get a few early immo's to push back a roach rush. I mean this is obviously not a great BO but it has worked very well in Gold, I found unless I go this or fast blink colo you will just die to muta every time.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 02 2013 00:38 GMT
#6
Three losses in a row!? That's intense!
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Adtor
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada82 Posts
December 02 2013 11:20 GMT
#7
lol it's funny because I have the same mentality as a zerg facing protoss. I feel like any units I make is useless. If protoss gets colossi, it destroys ling, roaches, hydras and going Muta leaves me vulnerable if I didn't get my economy up fast enough and die to most all-ins. You tried dropping in the main and warping zealot to the third? It could damage his economy or distract him while you take your 3rd.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
December 02 2013 20:45 GMT
#8
If you're worried about cheese look into using the YufFE. It worked for me really well back in WoL.

13 Gate(when it finishes make a Zealot)
16 Pylon
19ish Nexus

With the really early Zealot you can pull 4 or so probes and defend the 6 pool no problem, coming out about 7 workers and a base up.

Vs. a 1 base roach you have to make a quick Forge and a lot of cannons, and then abuse your 2 bases.

Vs. a baneling bust... just micro your little heart out. Fall back to 1 base and wall off the ramp completely, with multiple layers of buildings.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 5m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft330
SpeCial 223
ZombieGrub103
ViBE97
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 476
Dota 2
syndereN470
monkeys_forever172
NeuroSwarm47
League of Legends
Doublelift4185
JimRising 189
Counter-Strike
summit1g4944
Other Games
Grubby2438
shahzam617
C9.Mang0343
mouzStarbuck136
UpATreeSC106
XaKoH 92
Livibee77
Fuzer 45
SteadfastSC13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 62
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 34
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2899
• Scarra1194
• Shiphtur662
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 5m
CrankTV Team League
12h 5m
OSC
14h 5m
OSC
18h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Escore
1d 11h
CrankTV Team League
1d 12h
OSC
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-28
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Proleague 2026-07-29
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.