• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:19
CET 13:19
KST 21:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
sOs joins Best's team, Newcatsle University Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12132 users

PvZ: My Achilles Heel

Blogs > KatatoniK
Post a Reply
KatatoniK
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom978 Posts
December 01 2013 13:34 GMT
#1
Yesterday was the highlight of my SC2 ladder career so far, I made it into 3rd in my division with my modified version of PartinG's Chargelot/Archon timing build tearing through Terran and some fairly early DTs to edge out in PvP.

Then came along three PvZs in a row and three losses in a row to knock me back down to 7th place, after the 3rd loss I took a step back and thought, "where did it go wrong?"

I came up with several ideas as to why, firstly, PvZ is a rare thing for me to get into on ladder, I mostly end up in PvTs or PvPs so a lack of experience in the match-up hurts me a little. Secondly, two of my builds from the 3 were made up on the spot and weren't particularly good. (I had tried a 3gate stargate in the second which I butchered so horribly it was almost impressive!)

Then the big reason hit me, my mentality in the match. Facing Zerg scares me if I'm honest, it's the most flexible race, at least in my opinion, and it can switch tech when it sees fit in reaction to what is thrown at it. It's also a race that benefits from their opponents sitting back and turtling (which I have a habit of doing as a Protoss)

In Bronze, I expect a Zerg to cheese in the form a 6/7 pool, or fairly simple builds such as a baneling bust or a 1 base roach. Sometimes I even think about them going mass muta. I also go into a PvZ thinking that I can't outmacro. Prolonged PvZ is a nightmare for me, I very rarely harrass and letting a Zerg get lots of bases isn't a good idea so I go for quick timing attacks/allins and cross my fingers hoping it works. There's also the fact Zerg can remax very easily if they have the economy.

Given my fear of cheese, I block off my main, leaving me no choice but to embark on the path of 1 base builds leaving me stuck on whatever tech I go with, if the Zerg figures out my build, I am doomed.

The more I write and think about this, the more I think why I dislike facing Zerg, it's not that their OP cause they're not, it's just I have so much to think about my brain just starts to flail around in blind panic. PvZ for me is different to PvT and PvP, those two match-ups are all about making sure my BO is correct (or in the case of PvP, hoping I won the coin flip) but for PvZ, it's more a fight with myself mentally to stay calm and not spend a ton of time going "what if they do this?" "What if they figure out what I'm doing and switch to this?" "Would this be better against this?"

**
Flying on the Jin Air hype plane. Lets go Maru, Rogue, sOs and the handsome CJ herO
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46686 Posts
December 01 2013 14:18 GMT
#2
If you're that worried about bronze-level PvZ, just stick to an early forge (12 supply) and then expand behind it; create a wall-off in front of your natural and have a cannon behind it for defense.

Then just try your best to scout and keep macroing well. Get an early sentry in case you need to use forcefield for defense or hallucinate a phoenix for intel (especially if your probe keeps getting denied).

And just don't let your army get surrounded when you're out in the middle of the map.

Good luck!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12907 Posts
December 01 2013 17:37 GMT
#3
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46686 Posts
December 01 2013 22:13 GMT
#4
On December 02 2013 02:37 ETisME wrote:
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.


And against Terrans too, right? Just get +1 armor vs. Terran instead of your +1 weapons vs. Zerg.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
December 02 2013 00:08 GMT
#5
Mass VR Colo with whatever ground suits your needs seems to work for me in gold, get a few early phoenix to discourage muta's you can drop another stargate and pump out VR's and be safe against muta either way. Get a few early immo's to push back a roach rush. I mean this is obviously not a great BO but it has worked very well in Gold, I found unless I go this or fast blink colo you will just die to muta every time.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 02 2013 00:38 GMT
#6
Three losses in a row!? That's intense!
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Adtor
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada82 Posts
December 02 2013 11:20 GMT
#7
lol it's funny because I have the same mentality as a zerg facing protoss. I feel like any units I make is useless. If protoss gets colossi, it destroys ling, roaches, hydras and going Muta leaves me vulnerable if I didn't get my economy up fast enough and die to most all-ins. You tried dropping in the main and warping zealot to the third? It could damage his economy or distract him while you take your 3rd.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
December 02 2013 20:45 GMT
#8
If you're worried about cheese look into using the YufFE. It worked for me really well back in WoL.

13 Gate(when it finishes make a Zealot)
16 Pylon
19ish Nexus

With the really early Zealot you can pull 4 or so probes and defend the 6 pool no problem, coming out about 7 workers and a base up.

Vs. a 1 base roach you have to make a quick Forge and a lot of cannons, and then abuse your 2 bases.

Vs. a baneling bust... just micro your little heart out. Fall back to 1 base and wall off the ramp completely, with multiple layers of buildings.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IntoTheTV X SOOP
20:00
Premier - Quarterfinals
ByuN vs SHINLIVE!
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
CranKy Ducklings SOOP83
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EnDerr 59
Rex 27
ByuN (SOOP) 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34291
Calm 4461
Rain 2103
Horang2 750
Mini 645
BeSt 485
FanTaSy 415
actioN 166
Hyun 166
Last 159
[ Show more ]
Stork 134
ggaemo 127
Mind 103
Leta 69
sSak 68
Pusan 64
Sharp 45
hero 43
zelot 42
Barracks 36
Creator 36
scan(afreeca) 36
Free 30
Killer 28
sOs 27
Movie 25
Aegong 24
Bale 23
Yoon 23
soO 21
Sacsri 19
ajuk12(nOOB) 17
Classic 15
yabsab 11
Dota 2
Dendi411
XcaliburYe289
Other Games
Lowko448
Fuzer 250
Mew2King95
NeuroSwarm54
Railgan27
B2W.Neo0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 902
Counter-Strike
PGL145
Other Games
ComeBackTV 0
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Dystopia_ 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• WagamamaTV94
Upcoming Events
IPSL
4h 41m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
6h 41m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
22h 41m
IPSL
1d 4h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.