• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:17
CEST 12:17
KST 19:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!15Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
Best Games Kespa era BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4195 users

PvZ: My Achilles Heel

Blogs > KatatoniK
Post a Reply
KatatoniK
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom978 Posts
December 01 2013 13:34 GMT
#1
Yesterday was the highlight of my SC2 ladder career so far, I made it into 3rd in my division with my modified version of PartinG's Chargelot/Archon timing build tearing through Terran and some fairly early DTs to edge out in PvP.

Then came along three PvZs in a row and three losses in a row to knock me back down to 7th place, after the 3rd loss I took a step back and thought, "where did it go wrong?"

I came up with several ideas as to why, firstly, PvZ is a rare thing for me to get into on ladder, I mostly end up in PvTs or PvPs so a lack of experience in the match-up hurts me a little. Secondly, two of my builds from the 3 were made up on the spot and weren't particularly good. (I had tried a 3gate stargate in the second which I butchered so horribly it was almost impressive!)

Then the big reason hit me, my mentality in the match. Facing Zerg scares me if I'm honest, it's the most flexible race, at least in my opinion, and it can switch tech when it sees fit in reaction to what is thrown at it. It's also a race that benefits from their opponents sitting back and turtling (which I have a habit of doing as a Protoss)

In Bronze, I expect a Zerg to cheese in the form a 6/7 pool, or fairly simple builds such as a baneling bust or a 1 base roach. Sometimes I even think about them going mass muta. I also go into a PvZ thinking that I can't outmacro. Prolonged PvZ is a nightmare for me, I very rarely harrass and letting a Zerg get lots of bases isn't a good idea so I go for quick timing attacks/allins and cross my fingers hoping it works. There's also the fact Zerg can remax very easily if they have the economy.

Given my fear of cheese, I block off my main, leaving me no choice but to embark on the path of 1 base builds leaving me stuck on whatever tech I go with, if the Zerg figures out my build, I am doomed.

The more I write and think about this, the more I think why I dislike facing Zerg, it's not that their OP cause they're not, it's just I have so much to think about my brain just starts to flail around in blind panic. PvZ for me is different to PvT and PvP, those two match-ups are all about making sure my BO is correct (or in the case of PvP, hoping I won the coin flip) but for PvZ, it's more a fight with myself mentally to stay calm and not spend a ton of time going "what if they do this?" "What if they figure out what I'm doing and switch to this?" "Would this be better against this?"

**
Flying on the Jin Air hype plane. Lets go Maru, Rogue, sOs and the handsome CJ herO
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46272 Posts
December 01 2013 14:18 GMT
#2
If you're that worried about bronze-level PvZ, just stick to an early forge (12 supply) and then expand behind it; create a wall-off in front of your natural and have a cannon behind it for defense.

Then just try your best to scout and keep macroing well. Get an early sentry in case you need to use forcefield for defense or hallucinate a phoenix for intel (especially if your probe keeps getting denied).

And just don't let your army get surrounded when you're out in the middle of the map.

Good luck!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12840 Posts
December 01 2013 17:37 GMT
#3
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46272 Posts
December 01 2013 22:13 GMT
#4
On December 02 2013 02:37 ETisME wrote:
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.


And against Terrans too, right? Just get +1 armor vs. Terran instead of your +1 weapons vs. Zerg.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
December 02 2013 00:08 GMT
#5
Mass VR Colo with whatever ground suits your needs seems to work for me in gold, get a few early phoenix to discourage muta's you can drop another stargate and pump out VR's and be safe against muta either way. Get a few early immo's to push back a roach rush. I mean this is obviously not a great BO but it has worked very well in Gold, I found unless I go this or fast blink colo you will just die to muta every time.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 02 2013 00:38 GMT
#6
Three losses in a row!? That's intense!
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Adtor
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada82 Posts
December 02 2013 11:20 GMT
#7
lol it's funny because I have the same mentality as a zerg facing protoss. I feel like any units I make is useless. If protoss gets colossi, it destroys ling, roaches, hydras and going Muta leaves me vulnerable if I didn't get my economy up fast enough and die to most all-ins. You tried dropping in the main and warping zealot to the third? It could damage his economy or distract him while you take your 3rd.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
December 02 2013 20:45 GMT
#8
If you're worried about cheese look into using the YufFE. It worked for me really well back in WoL.

13 Gate(when it finishes make a Zealot)
16 Pylon
19ish Nexus

With the really early Zealot you can pull 4 or so probes and defend the 6 pool no problem, coming out about 7 workers and a base up.

Vs. a 1 base roach you have to make a quick Forge and a lot of cannons, and then abuse your 2 bases.

Vs. a baneling bust... just micro your little heart out. Fall back to 1 base and wall off the ramp completely, with multiple layers of buildings.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Escore
10:00
Season 3 Week 7
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 157
BRAT_OK 77
Lowko37
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 469
Jaedong 268
Pusan 257
EffOrt 162
actioN 124
Light 113
Larva 96
Soma 85
Snow 83
Mong 81
[ Show more ]
Yoon 53
ToSsGirL 53
Sharp 44
ZerO 41
Rush 31
Barracks 23
hero 22
HiyA 21
Sacsri 19
sorry 17
yabsab 17
soO 15
Sexy 15
scan(afreeca) 14
Noble 12
Free 10
NotJumperer 8
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
The International41632
Gorgc12705
Fuzer 301
KheZu53
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1774
shoxiejesuss1003
kRYSTAL_2
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King102
Other Games
ceh9520
crisheroes250
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 16
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco802
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1357
League of Legends
• Jankos1400
• Stunt597
Upcoming Events
PiG Sty Festival
1h 44m
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs Zoun
Big Brain Bouts
5h 44m
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
CranKy Ducklings
23h 44m
PiG Sty Festival
1d 1h
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
1d 5h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
2 days
OSC
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-13
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W7
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.