• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:41
CEST 12:41
KST 19:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins0[$1250] International ShieldBattery League36Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War1425.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Stellar Fest 2 Replay Pack
Tourneys
WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Bot on ladder BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [Women's StarCraft] Tier 8 CK 2026-10-20 [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
The Chess Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9685 users

PvZ: My Achilles Heel

Blogs > KatatoniK
Post a Reply
KatatoniK
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom978 Posts
December 01 2013 13:34 GMT
#1
Yesterday was the highlight of my SC2 ladder career so far, I made it into 3rd in my division with my modified version of PartinG's Chargelot/Archon timing build tearing through Terran and some fairly early DTs to edge out in PvP.

Then came along three PvZs in a row and three losses in a row to knock me back down to 7th place, after the 3rd loss I took a step back and thought, "where did it go wrong?"

I came up with several ideas as to why, firstly, PvZ is a rare thing for me to get into on ladder, I mostly end up in PvTs or PvPs so a lack of experience in the match-up hurts me a little. Secondly, two of my builds from the 3 were made up on the spot and weren't particularly good. (I had tried a 3gate stargate in the second which I butchered so horribly it was almost impressive!)

Then the big reason hit me, my mentality in the match. Facing Zerg scares me if I'm honest, it's the most flexible race, at least in my opinion, and it can switch tech when it sees fit in reaction to what is thrown at it. It's also a race that benefits from their opponents sitting back and turtling (which I have a habit of doing as a Protoss)

In Bronze, I expect a Zerg to cheese in the form a 6/7 pool, or fairly simple builds such as a baneling bust or a 1 base roach. Sometimes I even think about them going mass muta. I also go into a PvZ thinking that I can't outmacro. Prolonged PvZ is a nightmare for me, I very rarely harrass and letting a Zerg get lots of bases isn't a good idea so I go for quick timing attacks/allins and cross my fingers hoping it works. There's also the fact Zerg can remax very easily if they have the economy.

Given my fear of cheese, I block off my main, leaving me no choice but to embark on the path of 1 base builds leaving me stuck on whatever tech I go with, if the Zerg figures out my build, I am doomed.

The more I write and think about this, the more I think why I dislike facing Zerg, it's not that their OP cause they're not, it's just I have so much to think about my brain just starts to flail around in blind panic. PvZ for me is different to PvT and PvP, those two match-ups are all about making sure my BO is correct (or in the case of PvP, hoping I won the coin flip) but for PvZ, it's more a fight with myself mentally to stay calm and not spend a ton of time going "what if they do this?" "What if they figure out what I'm doing and switch to this?" "Would this be better against this?"

**
Flying on the Jin Air hype plane. Lets go Maru, Rogue, sOs and the handsome CJ herO
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46548 Posts
December 01 2013 14:18 GMT
#2
If you're that worried about bronze-level PvZ, just stick to an early forge (12 supply) and then expand behind it; create a wall-off in front of your natural and have a cannon behind it for defense.

Then just try your best to scout and keep macroing well. Get an early sentry in case you need to use forcefield for defense or hallucinate a phoenix for intel (especially if your probe keeps getting denied).

And just don't let your army get surrounded when you're out in the middle of the map.

Good luck!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12894 Posts
December 01 2013 17:37 GMT
#3
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46548 Posts
December 01 2013 22:13 GMT
#4
On December 02 2013 02:37 ETisME wrote:
There is a killer a move build in bronze that works super well.
FFE, scout his third timing. If you feels its too late, put one extra cannon or two.

Go for a two base +1 chargelots archon all in.
It is as simple as a move and murders every bronze zerg easily.


And against Terrans too, right? Just get +1 armor vs. Terran instead of your +1 weapons vs. Zerg.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
December 02 2013 00:08 GMT
#5
Mass VR Colo with whatever ground suits your needs seems to work for me in gold, get a few early phoenix to discourage muta's you can drop another stargate and pump out VR's and be safe against muta either way. Get a few early immo's to push back a roach rush. I mean this is obviously not a great BO but it has worked very well in Gold, I found unless I go this or fast blink colo you will just die to muta every time.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 02 2013 00:38 GMT
#6
Three losses in a row!? That's intense!
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Adtor
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada82 Posts
December 02 2013 11:20 GMT
#7
lol it's funny because I have the same mentality as a zerg facing protoss. I feel like any units I make is useless. If protoss gets colossi, it destroys ling, roaches, hydras and going Muta leaves me vulnerable if I didn't get my economy up fast enough and die to most all-ins. You tried dropping in the main and warping zealot to the third? It could damage his economy or distract him while you take your 3rd.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
December 02 2013 20:45 GMT
#8
If you're worried about cheese look into using the YufFE. It worked for me really well back in WoL.

13 Gate(when it finishes make a Zealot)
16 Pylon
19ish Nexus

With the really early Zealot you can pull 4 or so probes and defend the 6 pool no problem, coming out about 7 workers and a base up.

Vs. a 1 base roach you have to make a quick Forge and a lot of cannons, and then abuse your 2 bases.

Vs. a baneling bust... just micro your little heart out. Fall back to 1 base and wall off the ramp completely, with multiple layers of buildings.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 19m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko153
Classic 81
Rex 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2561
Bisu 820
Horang2 534
Hyuk 388
Soma 330
Larva 291
EffOrt 204
Killer 198
Rush 140
Light 120
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 115
Mini 114
ZergMaN 110
ZerO 105
Stork 98
sorry 93
Pusan 83
Mind 76
Leta 65
Hyun 51
Barracks 48
Sexy 33
Bale 32
Shinee 27
Shine 21
Snow 16
Sacsri 13
Creator 12
yabsab 11
Terrorterran 10
Dota 2
XaKoH 433
XcaliburYe113
League of Legends
JimRising 343
Counter-Strike
kennyS1397
byalli1282
olofmeister1113
allub419
x6flipin93
Other Games
singsing1875
crisheroes227
Sick185
Pyrionflax181
dupreeh167
RotterdaM75
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick450
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH288
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV306
League of Legends
• Stunt528
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
19m
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Solar
Rex0
PiGosaur Cup
13h 19m
The PondCast
23h 19m
Kung Fu Cup
1d
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
FEL
3 days
Patches Events
4 days
FEL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.