I had a very strange experience yesterday. I hope I never have another like it.
I returned home from a few casual drinks with my coworkers, took off my jacket, and sat down at my computer, as I usually do. I started it up and went to facebook, as I usually do. But this time, something was wrong.
"[ ], this is urgent. Did you see the group message that was sent to us?", my friend had messaged me.
I had not seen any such message - my inbox was empty. However, I mulled on this for a minute and concluded that I probably needed to change my privacy settings to see it. Lo and behold, after changing the settings and reloading, there was 1 new group conversation.
Nothing in my wildest imagination could have prepared me for what I saw there.
It was a 4 or 5 page long, elaborate, specific, and extremely disturbing message to myself, my friend, and 8 other people I didn't know alleging that an mid-20's acquaintance of ours has been sexually abusing a 12 year old girl.
"You are receiving this message because you are a close friend of [name]", the message began.
Now, this isn't really true. I haven't spoken to this acquaintance of mine for about 2 years, and when I did - we were just that: acquaintances. Not really friends. I've never had a real conversation with him. But it seemed that the accuser in this case had picked some people off the accused persons facebook and decided to sent this accusation to them, as well as the immediate family of the girl who is allegedly being abused.
My immediate reaction was unrestrained confusion. Why send this to random people on facebook? Is this some sort of joke? Spam? Mistaken identity? Why am I receiving this? I began wondering what I was supposed to do with the information. I went back over the message - it contained indisputably personal information about this aquaintance of mine, as well as the full names and locations of the girls family, a timeline of abuse, and a plethora of other details. There were dozens of screenshots attached both of phone conversations (text) with the girl herself discussing (as a pre-teen might) what she has experienced and how it was disturbing and frightening. In addition to this were several screenshots of emails from the girls immediate guardians explaining (to the sender) that they were aware of the "issue" and to kindly fuck off.
Jesus Christ.
Ah, a clue. The sender claims to be "internet dating" the girl. That makes sense, the sender must be a kid themselves,this message is disorganized and incoherent, despite seemingly legitimate and sent in good faith.
"I don't want to hurt her more by making the police involved[sic]", the message read.
Well kid, I'm sorry, but it's a bit late for that now.
I paced furiously back and forth in my apartment for a good 15 minutes. Am I legally required to do anything with this information in Canada? I wondered. I think only professionals have a requirement to disclose any information regarding the harm of a child...
But legal requirements aren't the only thing I have to worry about. Surely, SURELY, I have a moral responsibility to act, even if this seems absurd and I have nothing at all to do with it. Facebook messages, really? Why on earth... But it makes sense. A child isn't going to know what to do. A child isn't going to have the courage to go to the cops and say "I have this mountain of circumstantial evidence of a crime, but the victim is afraid to speak". That's hard, really hard. Pales only in comparison to how hard it must be to speak if you're the one being abused.
And at the same time, isn't defamation of character and slander a crime? It MUST be, but I'm no lawyer. Either way, something is really wrong. Really, really wrong. Either somebody took the time to horribly slander this acquaintance of mine, and they need to face legal consequences for their actions, or.. or some little girl is being hurt. Maybe right now. Fuck. FUCK.
I had decided. There was really no other conclusion to reach, but obviously the other 8 people in the group chat hadn't reached it yet, because they were posting viscous drivel defending the character of the accused and denouncing the accuser.
I informed my friend that I was calling the police and advised him to follow suit.
"Hello, this is the [xxxxx Police Service], what is your question or complaint?" a voice gruffly asked me over the phone after a short wait.
"Uh.. I don't have a question or complaint sir, I have something to report", I replied.
"Oh. Ok, what seems to be the problem?" he answered.
I began to explain this bizarre situation. After a short period of time he asked me to hold while he talked to his supervisor, because he didn't know the policy for handling this kind of situation.
Some time later he returned, apologized for the wait, and collected my personal information. I live in a different city than the people involved in this, so he couldn't send a patrol car out to talk to me. was told to expect a call later in the evening.
A few hours later, a much younger officer called me and asked me to explain what the problem seemed to be. I guess the first guy didn't explain too well...
This officer was confused, albeit less so than the first guy. He asked me to screenshot everything in the group chat and send it to the police service email. Shortly after, I received confirmation that they had the data and were starting an investigation.
I haven't heard anything since. But the accused, who is a FB friend, posted a context-less post about "He is so grateful his friends are trusting in him and supporting him in these hard times", referring to the people posting support in the original group thread, no doubt. Uhg.
The idiocy in the thread had reached an unbearable level, with the original poster threatening to go to the cops now. I posted that I had already provided all the information to the police and urged anybody with information to do the same. Half the remaining people in the convo left after that. Funny. Why run now?
I don't know what is going to happen now. The police have no obligation to inform me of anything that happens, although I really hope they do. I want to know if this guy is really abusing a little girl, and I want to know if she's ok and safe and that nobody is hurting her. I hope everything is ok. I really, really hope everything is ok.
After all I can see you did the right thing. You informed the police and now it's their turn to investigate. You can't do any further because it may be just a slander.
dont stress over it, frankly it isnt your problem. you did a good deal more then most people would so just chill and put it out of mind. There is nothing more you can do and nothing for you to gain or lose by following the issue. from what I can tell you dont have any proof so it could all be slander anyway.
You absolutely, without a doubt, made the right move there. I really hope that it all turns out that it's not true and that the girl is and always was ok, any other scenario would be horrible. I got none of your friends turn their backs on you for doing the right thing. Way to go man, you weathered that sudden storm very well.
You did the right thing. From what you describe, it's unlikely that the accusations are just an extremely elaborate plot, and in any case, you have no way of finding out. Whatever happens now, you did the only responsible thing you could do after involuntarily being pulled into this.
On November 23 2013 14:31 Grobyc wrote: Sounds like you did the right thing, good job. Did you discuss it with your friend who initially informed you of the message at all?
Yeah. I asked him to also phone in, and he did so today. He was really unsure about what to do, and was really seriously uncomfortable with the whole situation - something I think anybody would sympathize with. I think what put him over the edge was the fact that some of the other people in this chat were posting messages like "even if you did it, you're still my friend and I know God will forgive you". He mentioned how that really disturbed him and he seemed relieved when I stated that I was going to report it to the police.
Jesus... I can't even fathom how someone could "support" someone they know doing/having done that. What's even more mind boggling is this:
In addition to this were several screenshots of emails from the girls immediate guardians explaining (to the sender) that they were aware of the "issue" and to kindly fuck off.
Does this not lead to loss of custody of the child or something? What kind of fucked up guardian doesn't make that their #1 priority.
On November 23 2013 14:42 Grobyc wrote: Jesus... I can't even fathom how someone could "support" someone they know doing/having done that. What's even more mind boggling is this:
In addition to this were several screenshots of emails from the girls immediate guardians explaining (to the sender) that they were aware of the "issue" and to kindly fuck off.
Does this not lead to loss of custody of the child or something? What kind of fucked up guardian doesn't make that their #1 priority.
I really don't know. People can do inexplicable, awful things. A casual glance at the headlining news will confirm this. And yeah, apparently the case is that if your job description involves child care in some way (teacher, daycare worker, child services worker, doctor, etc), or you are a guardian of the child and you fail to act on information that they are in danger of abuse, you are committing a crime (in Canada, at least).
Eh? Nobody stopped to think about the fact that random strangers on the Internet can actually lie? Seems like a terribly convenient way to ruin someone's life. I would hope my friends wouldn't believe the first troll that makes some effort. But as you said, the guy was only an acquaintance, so I guess everything is fine.
You did well, sitting on the information hoping it's not true or whatever would be a horrible thing to do. Now it's up to police to investigate and determine, it's not your fight now.
On November 23 2013 19:25 3772 wrote: Eh? Nobody stopped to think about the fact that random strangers on the Internet can actually lie? Seems like a terribly convenient way to ruin someone's life. I would hope my friends wouldn't believe the first troll that makes some effort. But as you said, the guy was only an acquaintance, so I guess everything is fine.
It's about the lesser evil: a) It's a stupid troll (which he can't find out by himself) which will be revealed by an investigation. Involving the police clears this up quicker and easier than letting randoms in a Facebook discussion group try to figure it out. b) It's actually real (which he also can't find out by himself). Involving the police clears this up quicker and easier than... you get the idea.
At minimum, the person that originally sent the Group Conversation is guilty of some combination of Libel/Slander (depending on your jurisdiction & method, it's one or both), and possibly guilty of accessory & defamation. You were pretty much roped into a potential Blackmail situation. There's no easy way to deal. Nothing is clean & you lack true information.
If it isn't an obvious fraud, then contacting the person involved and reporting it is probably the "best" idea. It could be a very elaborate hoax, but unless you made it completely public (which would be FAR worse, as your friend might have his life torn apart without any recourse), there really isn't much of a way for you to check the details closely enough. This is definitely something left to detectives. Actually, it's pretty much their job description.
You should be commended for not over-reacting, in any direction. You were given information that you can't confirm about something extremely serious. Good job.
Generally people don't slander people like this, and you can tell if they are lying but the details and descriptions of things usually. Liars don't go into trivial specifcs. Also , even though it's a common misconception in media or whatever, people generally don't lie about rape or related. It's srs bsnss. So like everyone else in this thread giving you validation, yea you did the best thing you can do, and that is all you can do, and it's none of your business. All you can do is have faith in justice and the accused will go free or be jailed based on the investigation.
One thing to note though, most young girls who are seeking older men for sex etc have abuse histories previously. Like when they were a child they were molested or something. She should and most definitely will fit in that category if this is all true. Also, not 100% but a lot of the time when there is a girl with a trauma history like this she may tend to have the voice/personality of a little girl at the time of the original trauma. http://loveline.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Girl_Voice PS- Knowing this information sort of freaked me out about my older cousin who had a little girl voice up until a few years ago (and she's in her mid 30s now). I assume she got some therapy, I never talked to her about it though.
On November 23 2013 19:25 3772 wrote: Eh? Nobody stopped to think about the fact that random strangers on the Internet can actually lie? Seems like a terribly convenient way to ruin someone's life. I would hope my friends wouldn't believe the first troll that makes some effort. But as you said, the guy was only an acquaintance, so I guess everything is fine.
He did mention that though:
Either somebody took the time to horribly slander this acquaintance of mine, and they need to face legal consequences for their actions, or.. or some little girl is being hurt.
Like he said, either the guy is being slandered and the sender should be punished or it's actually true, either way something should be done and it's the police's job to do it. If the guy isn't guilty and the whole thing is a farce it isn't going to ruin his life. Better safe than sorry in such a delicate circumstance.
On November 23 2013 23:25 MarlieChurphy wrote: One thing to note though, most young girls who are seeking older men for sex etc have abuse histories previously. Like when they were a child they were molested or something. She should and most definitely will fit in that category if this is all true. Also, not 100% but a lot of the time when there is a girl with a trauma history like this she may tend to have the voice/personality of a little girl at the time of the original trauma. http://loveline.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Girl_Voice PS- Knowing this information sort of freaked me out about my older cousin who had a little girl voice up until a few years ago (and she's in her mid 30s now). I assume she got some therapy, I never talked to her about it though.
You're the only person I have ever read who frequently uses Loveline as if it was a scientific magazine for all kind of weird claims. Mind showing some actual data to back those things up?
On November 23 2013 23:25 MarlieChurphy wrote: One thing to note though, most young girls who are seeking older men for sex etc have abuse histories previously. Like when they were a child they were molested or something. She should and most definitely will fit in that category if this is all true. Also, not 100% but a lot of the time when there is a girl with a trauma history like this she may tend to have the voice/personality of a little girl at the time of the original trauma. http://loveline.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Girl_Voice PS- Knowing this information sort of freaked me out about my older cousin who had a little girl voice up until a few years ago (and she's in her mid 30s now). I assume she got some therapy, I never talked to her about it though.
You're the only person I have ever read who frequently uses Loveline as if it was a scientific magazine for all kind of weird claims. Mind showing some actual data to back those things up?
I posted that wiki link:
Despite its lack of formal research, many others in the mental health field to have noticed this pattern too[citation needed], though detecting it correctly requires practice. Laypeople with sufficient experience can learn to pick up on it, though they can sometimes be fooled by a person merely having a high-pitched voice. Drew often suggests closing one's eyes and imagining that you know nothing about the speaker (including their real age) and concentrating on how old the speaker makes you feel like they are.
A number of them stated that they had been raped or sexually molested as children or adolescents, as well as when adult women. Some victims never told anyone and kept the burden within themselves. The current rape reactivated their emotional reaction to the prior experience. The victim talked as vividly about the previous assault as the present one, indicating that the incident had never been adequately settled or integrated. Counselors who suspect that the client has a history of being raped should be sure to include questions relevant to the possibility of the victim's having been subjected to an earlier rape or attempted rape or other molestation.
Survivors deal with the sexual abuse in a variety of ways. ... they may act out against others in manipulative or abusive ways, especially if that is the only way they have learned to get their needs met. Moreover, the survivor may have developed self-destructive behaviors (substance abuse, eating disorders, acting out sexually, self-mutilation, etc.) as ways to escape from or as attempts to gain control over the pain that stems from the abuse. Survivors who did not have the resources or opportunities to work through the trauma they experienced are frequently prone to self-hate, self-destructiveness, and feelings of hopelessness.
Another explanation is that psychological consequences of childhood sexual trauma may be exacerbated among individuals that experience subsequent sexual victimizations, contributing to worse symptoms in adulthood (Coid et al., 2003). A review of research on repeat victimization concluded that women who experienced childhood sexual abuse were at heightened risk of adulthood victimization and those who were revictimized reported greater mental health problems in adulthood (Messman and Long, 1996).
The topic of revictimization often raises strong sentiments and concerns about blaming the victim. It is noteworthy that some investigations have provided limited or no support for the victim's contribution to sexual revictimization (e.g., Siegel & Williams, 2003). And, although there is a substantial body of literature on survivor characteristics that increase vulnerability for later victimization (e.g., alcohol abuse, PTSD, interpersonal problems), many researchers are currently shifting their attention to perpetrators and the effects of societal and cultural responses to violence against women (Messman & Long, 2003).
The reason why is because often people who were traumatized at a young age learn to cope with intesnse feelings by dissociating or have other psycholgoical qualities that leave them vulnerable to be victimized or spotted/abused more easily by victimizers. In other words, they don't fight back and don't know how to deal with similar threatening situations that may reoccur.
As far as the little girl voice thing, it's more anecdotal evidence from listening to the show and having Dr. Drew nail that shit every time almost without fail. If you listen to the show with any regularity it's hard to deny. I'm not sure if it has been researched in depth, but it should be because even if this show isn't scientific proof it definitely is a great hypothesis and theory to start with.
EPT
