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Now most of you have heard of DotA2(DotA) and its developer IceFrog. Most recently, IceFrog and Valve introduced DotA patch 6.79 which bring a lot of changes into the basic game mechanics of dota. Now there has yet been enough data to tell which changes are good, which are bad, and that isnt what i want to talk about. What I want to discuss is how much of new contents that a developer could bring into the game by doing such thing and how it could apply to starcraft2.
First off, I have to admit that the balance direction of Blizzard has always been about maintaining the 50% win rate across all match up. This by no mean is a bad design direction and since there are people's career being affected by such balance changes, I think they have done a good job to get the game where it is today.
But in the long run, this isnt a good method to keep the game entertaining. Pro players will eventually find the most optimized recipes for the game and what follow up with that is just a more complex version of rock paper cannon. The game became stagnant for the players and eventually for the spectator.
I know how sports such as soccer and basketball dont need new contents to be entertained and how starcraft you think an esport title could be the same. Well I am gona tell you that you are wrong. Compare to traditional sports, esports has a very different content distribution system. You get a tournament every single week and a major tournament every single month. Not only that, every single hour there will be somebody, who are really good at the game, streaming contents for you on twitch. You dont see these phenomenal in traditional sport. The closest thing you could reflect upon on right now is the Netflix vs TV and DvD but that is a whole other can of worms to open. My point is: There are 2 ways you could run this boat, fast, traditionally or faster, with a bit of innovative technology.
Oh no, dont think I will be one of those guys who will be telling you how starcraft is dying.... again. That is so 2012. What am I seeing right now is stagnant. I am seeing a constant number across the graph like the wall that you hit your head in every time you tilted on ladder. There is now growth in the scene. Teenagers-who-are-socially-awkward-and-cant-hang-outside-with-their-friends-because-they-will-get-pick-on would rather go for more exciting games, the one that all the cool kids are talking about, the ones that could earn them millions dollars despite their bad academic results, the ones that make them cool. And hell that aint starcraft, at least no longer. We have an established proscene but it is so so saturated. Fierce competition for little sponsors' money, that we accidentally climb over every kids hope and dream to become one of us. There is no new blood while the old one are moving on: getting married, getting sick, studying.... Dying? No, thats too far of a future for the internet hivemind short attention span to taken into account. I prefer calling it stationary and its a sadder story than Clannad: After Story....
But you probably knew all that didnt you? Didnt you also asked yourself the same questions, draw yourself the same pictures after hearing Destiny switching into LoL? Did you find a solution? I too myself grief for the game I loved for a decent period of time. I cant even remember how much I watched the Bisu Best Highlight video on youtube over and over when I recently heard about his retirement. I remembered watching sc2gg cast OSL, MSL final and how I hated on TL for not letting them feed the stream over... And then I remember the glory days of broodwar, how boxer innovated with all the micro play, iloveoov and Nada genius macro style, July with his muta stacking, Bisu sair-reaver, sair-dt. toward the end of the era we even see queens in ZvT... And then I thought about what make all of those possible: Unexplored game mechanic.
What if we could inject new mechanics into sc2? Or even just tweaking the existing mechanic to make the game fresh? Everytime we do that, we will have a big reset button into the proscene where all the players will be re-evaluated for the learning speed and innovation, perfect time for new comers to jump in. After that we could balance it for 6-12 months, then tweak it again. The puzzle will solve itself isnt it?
How would I do it personally?
There are a lot of things I want to toy with. Start off with the old suggestion of having the main and the natural expansion 1 gas geyser each. This way in order to get up to higher tech, the play style will have to be more expand heavy which fit perfectly to the bigger maps tournaments use recently. Portal or speed boost that let you get from 1 place to the other side of the map faster, if we have watch tower mechanics, I dont see how portal is too much.
Next, May be tweaking the early scouting mechanic? What would happen if harvesters could walk through all structure? Or you could give them the ability to cliff jumping with a 90 seconds cooldown?
For army, may be we could implement the turn rate>0 mechanic or simply implement different pathing AI(remember how war3 has a formation toggle? how about pathing toggle for sc2?).
Late game could also use some improvement: Healthlink between 2 Battlecruiser so they split the damage taken, breeding between carriers which help interceptor production, an upgrade that let ultralisk becomes giant banelings or carry spine/spore crawler on their back?
So many room to tweak, so much men who dare... Blizzard pls?
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Time changes and we are no longer in the 90s-2000s with dial-up internet. Cultures accelerating, phenomenals spreading, sensational multiplying with the Internet. And for once, I think Blizzard original goal: to create a well-balanced game called sc2, is an outdated vision and should be put into stone as a relic. We could call it SC2 legacy or something.... It is time for something new, something exciting to take over. It requires innovative mindsets and a bit of thirst for having fun.
All hail glorious IceFrog the Developer, the first of his name and may humanity not let him be the last.
P/s: This is a very opinionated blog entry and I dont expect everyone to agree with me. In fact, I came up with 1 or 2 counter arguments myself while writing it. But look at how little these balance changes has been for sc2 recently. Some prefer orders, some friend with chaos. And I want to talk like littlefinger. If we have been drowning ourselves with orders, ask yourself, why not chaos?
edit1: for those who were comparing back to broodwar or traditional sports, I have made a very interesting point in my blog that I want to hear your thought about: the way contents of these 'sports' has been conceived in the last century has changed. We dont have to wait for 1-2 times a week for TV to broadcast the content we want. Now contents are available to us every minutes, seconds via livestreaming technology which creates a huge surge in the learning speed. Data and information are shared across the player base much more efficiently so if there is an exploit, a good build order? the entire player base will know about it in the next 48 hours.
In a sense, contents are being consumed much faster than traditional definitions which will demand a much more frequent maintenance from the developer. Look at HoTS, the game was figured out by the time the beta is over. We havent seen a lot of changes in the meta game unless there is some balance patch that barely twitching anything nowaday. Look at Hearthstone right now, the game is already figured out and the closed beta phase is not even over. You could even find detail stats comparison and analysis on balance decisions right here on teamliquid. This game will have really short life span and it will be a huge gap from now until the next expansion. How to inject contents/meta into hearthstone? How about a weekly global ban+limit list of cards? Winner get a special reward may be?
There is nothing wrong with keeping these games the way they are right now. It has been this way for the last 5 years isnt it? People buy a game, consume it for a set period of time and move on. But thats how you run a game, what we are aiming for is esports. We want consistent competition that attract the fans interest and to have that you need to make the players interested in playing the game. That not gona be easy if your game is an immovable rock, solved while there are much interesting puzzle boxes lying around with much more kids playing with them. Fossils belongs to the museum.
 
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On October 21 2013 10:21 NB wrote:But in the long run, this isnt a good method to keep the game entertaining. Pro players will eventually find the most optimized recipes for the game and what follow up with that is just a more complex version of rock paper cannon. The game became stagnant for the players and eventually for the spectator.
Not if the game is deep. It didn't happen to Brood War, for example.
If you have to keep adding things to " keep it interesting " then you have a weak foundation to begin with. A game should not be solved, it should continue to evolve and change over time, without patches.
I'm not an expert on the following games, but as far as I know, they also continued to evolve, without patches:
Chess
Super Smash Brothers: Melee (I don't know anything about this game except that it's changed a lot over time)
Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo (I don't like this game, but many do)
They all got some patches to begin with, to fix flaws in the game, and then they were left alone. Nothing was changed just for the sake of changing things.
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even badminton got changed with its scoring rule which kinda shake up the whole meta (such as how the players conserve their energy etc.)
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fully agree. stuff should get patched.
more than blizzard does.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
All hail IceFrog
I always kind of wished Blizzard went full IceFrog with balance
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People comparing this to BW are making a bit of a mistake, I think. Sc2 is, in some respects, an evolution (as was Wc3) of BW in terms of overall RTS strategy. We don't need to "invent" FFEing again, because BW already did that. A large part of Sc2 being figured out has to do with the fact that a lot of RTS strategies have been ported over, so a lot of the groundwork is already in place.
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On October 21 2013 23:31 Shiori wrote:
People comparing this to BW are making a bit of a mistake, I think. Sc2 is, in some respects, an evolution (as was Wc3) of BW in terms of overall RTS strategy. We don't need to "invent" FFEing again, because BW already did that. A large part of Sc2 being figured out has to do with the fact that a lot of RTS strategies have been ported over, so a lot of the groundwork is already in place.
Building on this point, one difference between bw and sc2 is that theres a much more vast and accurate source of information on how to play sc2 than there was back in bw's heyday. When sc2 finally came out of beta we already knew how to efficiently mine the most resources from an optimal number of bases, already had a very wide variety of fleshed out builds etc because of the smart and informed community on tl. Id even argue that if bw were to come out today the game would quickly become as "figured out" as sc2 was.
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On October 21 2013 11:15 Kaeru wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 10:29 vOdToasT wrote:On October 21 2013 10:21 NB wrote:But in the long run, this isnt a good method to keep the game entertaining. Pro players will eventually find the most optimized recipes for the game and what follow up with that is just a more complex version of rock paper cannon. The game became stagnant for the players and eventually for the spectator. Not if the game is deep. It didn't happen to Brood War, for example. If you have to keep adding things to " keep it interesting " then you have a weak foundation to begin with. A game should not be solved, it should continue to evolve and change over time, without patches. I'm not an expert on the following games, but as far as I know, they also continued to evolve, without patches: Chess Super Smash Brothers: Melee (I don't know anything about this game except that it's changed a lot over time) Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo (I don't like this game, but many do) They all got some patches to begin with, to fix flaws in the game, and then they were left alone. Nothing was changed just for the sake of changing things. Chess was recently patched.
Depends on what you mean by recent
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On October 22 2013 00:51 TylerThaCreator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 23:31 Shiori wrote:
People comparing this to BW are making a bit of a mistake, I think. Sc2 is, in some respects, an evolution (as was Wc3) of BW in terms of overall RTS strategy. We don't need to "invent" FFEing again, because BW already did that. A large part of Sc2 being figured out has to do with the fact that a lot of RTS strategies have been ported over, so a lot of the groundwork is already in place. Building on this point, one difference between bw and sc2 is that theres a much more vast and accurate source of information on how to play sc2 than there was back in bw's heyday. When sc2 finally came out of beta we already knew how to efficiently mine the most resources from an optimal number of bases, already had a very wide variety of fleshed out builds etc because of the smart and informed community on tl. Id even argue that if bw were to come out today the game would quickly become as "figured out" as sc2 was.
BW wasn't figured out as much as it is today two years ago, and at that point, it was already ancient. You are clearly wrong.
If you go back two more years, the differences were even bigger. So far, there hasn't been two years during which Brood War hasn't seen significant evolution, without patches (apart from the beginning period when it had to be patched to fix flaws)
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On October 22 2013 13:36 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2013 00:51 TylerThaCreator wrote:On October 21 2013 23:31 Shiori wrote:
People comparing this to BW are making a bit of a mistake, I think. Sc2 is, in some respects, an evolution (as was Wc3) of BW in terms of overall RTS strategy. We don't need to "invent" FFEing again, because BW already did that. A large part of Sc2 being figured out has to do with the fact that a lot of RTS strategies have been ported over, so a lot of the groundwork is already in place. Building on this point, one difference between bw and sc2 is that theres a much more vast and accurate source of information on how to play sc2 than there was back in bw's heyday. When sc2 finally came out of beta we already knew how to efficiently mine the most resources from an optimal number of bases, already had a very wide variety of fleshed out builds etc because of the smart and informed community on tl. Id even argue that if bw were to come out today the game would quickly become as "figured out" as sc2 was. BW wasn't figured out as much as it is today two years ago, and at that point, it was already ancient. You are clearly wrong. If you go back two more years, the differences were even bigger. So far, there hasn't been two years during which Brood War hasn't seen significant evolution, without patches (apart from the beginning period when it had to be patched to fix flaws)
I think because there have been so many SC2 patches, people just ignore how much the core game has developed since the beginning.
Balancing has a big impact, but the mechanics and understanding of the game has grown immensely as well.
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for those who were comparing back to broodwar or traditional sports, I have made a very interesting point in my blog that I want to hear your thought about: the way contents of these 'sports' has been conceived in the last century has changed. We dont have to wait for 1-2 times a week for TV to broadcast the content we want. Now contents are available to us every minutes, seconds via livestreaming technology which creates a huge surge in the learning speed. Data and information are shared across the player base much more efficiently so if there is an exploit, a good build order? the entire player base will know about it in the next 48 hours.
In a sense, contents are being consumed much faster than traditional definitions which will demand a much more frequent maintenance from the developer. Look at HoTS, the game was figured out by the time the beta is over. We havent seen a lot of changes in the meta game unless there is some balance patch that barely twitching anything nowaday. Look at Hearthstone right now, the game is already figured out and the closed beta phase is not even over. You could even find detail stats comparison and analysis on balance decisions right here on teamliquid. This game will have really short life span and it will be a huge gap from now until the next expansion. How to inject contents/meta into hearthstone? How about a weekly global ban+limit list of cards? Winner get a special reward may be?
There is nothing wrong with keeping these games the way they are right now. It has been this way for the last 5 years isnt it? People buy a game, consume it for a set period of time and move on. But thats how you run a game, what we are aiming for is esports. We want consistent competition that attract the fans interest and to have that you need to make the players interested in playing the game. That not gona be easy if your game is an immovable rock, solved while there are much interesting puzzle boxes lying around with much more kids playing with them. Fossils belongs to the museum.
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Basketball gets patched all the time tbh, but all small changes. Your changes are ridiculous, you want a completely new game lol
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If the old game is not working out so well, why not new?
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Broodwar didn't get patched but it was constantly evolving with new maps, people acting like Broodwar was some golden god have rose colored glasses on, if broodwar was played on the same 4 maps it would get old quick just like any other unchanging game.
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On October 25 2013 01:30 Esoterikk wrote:
Broodwar didn't get patched but it was constantly evolving with new maps, people acting like Broodwar was some golden god have rose colored glasses on, if broodwar was played on the same 4 maps it would get old quick just like any other unchanging game.
you might wana reread the part where I said why comparing modern esports to the old ones is a bad idea
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On October 25 2013 09:56 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 01:30 Esoterikk wrote:
Broodwar didn't get patched but it was constantly evolving with new maps, people acting like Broodwar was some golden god have rose colored glasses on, if broodwar was played on the same 4 maps it would get old quick just like any other unchanging game. you might wana reread the part where I said why comparing modern esports to the old ones is a bad idea
I was responding to the people in the blog, my response wasn't directed at your post.
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On October 25 2013 11:31 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 09:56 NB wrote:On October 25 2013 01:30 Esoterikk wrote:
Broodwar didn't get patched but it was constantly evolving with new maps, people acting like Broodwar was some golden god have rose colored glasses on, if broodwar was played on the same 4 maps it would get old quick just like any other unchanging game. you might wana reread the part where I said why comparing modern esports to the old ones is a bad idea I was responding to the people in the blog, my response wasn't directed at your post.
my bad, you should use the quote function next time to avoid confusion. Cheers.
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On October 25 2013 01:30 Esoterikk wrote:
Broodwar didn't get patched but it was constantly evolving with new maps, people acting like Broodwar was some golden god have rose colored glasses on, if broodwar was played on the same 4 maps it would get old quick just like any other unchanging game.
People want something new, it doesn't matter whether that something is players, maps, play styles, heroes, patches. As long as it prevents the game from becoming stale then it's okay.
I think the best bet for Starcraft 2 is more innovative maps and also some minor patch changes after every season (per year I mean).
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EPT
