• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:58
CEST 01:58
KST 08:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall5HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL36Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
$5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) WardiTV Mondays SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall Help: rep cant save Where did Hovz go?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 673 users

Why tackling football is so hard for us?

Blogs > Avaroth
Post a Reply
Avaroth
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Finland44 Posts
August 10 2013 05:12 GMT
#1
My dream, which undoubtedly is shared by many on TL, is for esports to become BIG. Lately I've been wondering if it's possible for a digital game to challenge football as a sport. By sport I mean in terms of spectator numbers (enjoyability of spectating) and thus sponsorships (=money).

Obviously this is not something that will or would happen any time soon, if at all. It might not even be something we really want but I'm just wondering whether it's even realistically possible. Needless to say, football is the most popular sport, and we would probably be fine with trumping a "smaller" sport such as badminton or ice hockey, at least for starters. But I'll go with football. If you wish, you can - in your mind - replace football with whatever sport you think we ought to be tackling. When applicable, you can also replace Starcraft with any current esport title, and its appropriate scenario, and try to think if what I'm about to explain is true to that game as well.

Why I personally prefer Starcraft to football is because I highly respect the intellectual aspect(s). I've never been particularly athletic. I've played my fair share of different sports and most of the time enjoyed them. Yet to me, they are just not as intriguing as Starcraft. On the other hand I have always been somewhat competitive so I suppose it only makes sense to steer towards digital games.

I would wager that the skill ceilings of Starcraft and football are relatively similar. It's practically impossible to become perfect at either of them. Of course, this goes for a lot of games, both digital and non-digital. A person could spend their entire life practicing Starcraft or football and still feel like they have something to learn. This virtually infinite skill ceiling, I suppose, is part of what makes them both so engaging, especially in the long term. People are generally inspired, impressed and fascinated by someone doing something extremely well, ie skillfully. It's engaging just looking at an expert at work and also one reason why people enjoy watching sports.

Imagine an alien with the IQ of an average human paying us a friendly visit. Let us name him Bob and hope he doesn't mind. We - as welcoming and hospitable human beings - naturally offer Bob a selection of refreshing beverages and invite him to watch some Starcraft and football with us. Bob, being an alien, has never seen either one before. Given the choice, after watching both for 2 hours, I think Bob would most likely prefer watching more football to watching more Starcraft, as much as he said Colossi are awesome. Why?

I'm confident Bob would get the hang of football much faster than Starcraft, with or without some kind of commentary. Starcraft is extremely complex, much more so than football. For Bob to truly respect and recognize high skill in Starcraft, or another digital game, he basically needs to understand, at least on a basic level, the way it works first.

The way Starcraft works, or its functions, have some logical similarities with the real world - a tank shot dealing AoE damage for example, but for the most part they are arbitrary. It's not easy for Bob to comprehend them. On the other hand, Bob is familiar with the laws of physics as they are in place on his home planet as well. Gravity, force, etc, are the mechanics, or functions, of football. This is why Bob would understand football much faster, thus enjoying it more. Heck, Bob might have even played around with a ball at some point!

Another reason why skill in football is more easy to appreciate is that you can see the physical activity directly. If a football player performs a bicycle kick and scores, most viewers are immediately impressed. It's pretty much an automatic, intuitive reaction. You don't even have to stop to think "wait, was that awesome or not". It just was!

I'll let you come up with an example that would be on the same level of awesomeness and difficulty in Starcraft. Now think of how much more difficult appreciating that action in Starcraft would be for a viewer, compared to the bicycle kick. The example you thought of might be hard for to appreciate even for someone who plays Starcraft. For a non-Starcraft gamer, let alone a non-gamer, it might be impossible to comprehend.

MKP's bio splitting is absolutely remarkable, but someone unfamiliar with Starcraft can't possibly appreciate the "bicycle kick" of splitting a bunch of marines fast. Bob is not impressed either. The action alone which we see on the screen is not enough to really appreciate it. Any Starcraft player (or at least terran) likely understands exactly how difficult it is to split those marines that fast and that well. Even if a camera is showing MKP's rapid hand movements and the APM counter is being displayed, Bob is still not that impressed. Bob still insists Colossi are cooler. If Bob knew how hard the splitting really is, his level of awe would be much higher. Bob should be able to - as intuitively as possible - determine the extreme level of skill required to do what he is seeing.

In Starcraft, the action itself (screen displaying marines moving into a specific formation) and the input (MKP giving commands on his keyboard) need to be perceived separately. Vast majority of the time we don't see the second part at all. In football, you see both, inseparably and immediately. The best way to make Bob understand how tough that splitting is, is to put a gun to his head (hypothetical situation, in reality we would of course do no such thing but instead offer Bob one more of his newfound favorite beverage as a reward) and make him practice marine splitting for a few hours. Following that, Bob could begin to appreciate MKP's splits. Now Bob understands the whole event better by only looking at the display, because Bob played some Starcraft and tried to split those marines, but there were just... too many banelings for Bob to handle.

To be fair, a lot of the awesome things to see in Starcraft are related to strategy which is by definition more long term. A casual fan of football probably won't understand the intricacies of the brilliant strategy a coach has come up with to defeat the enemy team. But we would also really like for Bob to understand the mental difficulty of Starcraft, and that would probably be even harder to hammer into Bob's thick skull than the effort required for marine splitting.

The ultimate esport game's bicycle kick needs to impress Bob as easily and effortlessly as the real bicycle kick does. We want Bob's freaking jaw to drop when he sees it! We want Bob to love our esport as much as he loves football. I suppose part of what I'm wondering here is if it's possible for a digital game to have a "bicycle kick" that can be appreciated by practically anyone. Keep in mind that we (or at least I) kind of want to preserve the fact that in our digital game, compared to the actual bicycle kick, it takes more mental skill, but less physical skill, to perform the awesome action.

So the question is: Is it possible to create a digital game that would 1) be intuitively enjoyable to spectate for non-gamers, 2) require some physical skill in giving the commands via whatever interface, and 3) require a lot of mental skill in making split-second decisions, coming up with a valid strategy and adjusting that strategy based on what happens in the match.

Thank you for reading. No offense whatsoever meant to any Bobs out there.

*
My garden is well. How is yours?
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-10 07:32:52
August 10 2013 07:31 GMT
#2
There's also a lot of intellect and strategy in football, arguably as much as any game out there, if not more. Smart movement, awareness and decision making are what makes the modern football player good nowadays, athleticism and technique are pretty much a given. Tactics are also critical on the management side.

While the vast majority of football fans are what we'd call "casual" in the gaming world (in terms of knowledge of the game),
there's a lot of depth to the game that you'll almost never hear a football commentator talk about during the broadcast. But it's still there for the relatively few people interested in it.
Passion
Profile Joined December 2003
Netherlands1486 Posts
August 10 2013 08:20 GMT
#3
Football is infinitely more complex than SC2, and I'm certain Bob will find Colossi super lame.
Avaroth
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Finland44 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-10 08:47:13
August 10 2013 08:38 GMT
#4
On August 10 2013 17:20 Passion wrote:
Football is infinitely more complex than SC2, and I'm certain Bob will find Colossi super lame.


Alright, I can accept that football is more complex. I don't want to argue against football. My point is that pretty much any traditional sport is more intuitively enjoyable to watch for people who never even tried it, whereas Starcraft or other current esport titles are not. You can replace football in my text with another traditional sport.

Bob liking colossus was a (admittedly bad) joke, as he is alien. I don't want to imagine Bob as zerg!
My garden is well. How is yours?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
20:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Gerald vs MojaLIVE!
ArT vs Jumy
SteadfastSC212
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 212
Livibee 142
CosmosSc2 43
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 850
Aegong 103
NaDa 21
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm104
League of Legends
JimRising 457
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox340
Liquid`Ken74
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor118
Other Games
summit1g9616
Grubby2125
Day[9].tv654
monkeys_forever90
Mew2King62
Maynarde38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick893
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH132
• davetesta72
• Hupsaiya 50
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4576
• Jankos1437
• masondota2673
Other Games
• Scarra1306
• imaqtpie913
• Day9tv654
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2m
The PondCast
10h 2m
RSL Revival
10h 2m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
16h 2m
Replay Cast
1d
RSL Revival
1d 10h
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
1d 16h
FEL
1d 16h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.