• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:08
CEST 18:08
KST 01:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)67ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7309 users

Call to action: Cheese those terrans!

Blogs > F4ble
Post a Reply
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 03 2013 19:52 GMT
#1
I think most Zergs these days are fairly agitated when it comes to the ZvT matchup. The introduction of widow mines, albeit not the worst of our troubles, are definitely forcing us to become better players. By that I am primarily thinking of our micro. We have to detonate those mines before each engagement and that can be tricky as hell. Either that or mass ultras and watch them om nom nom through the (first of many) terran army.

I honestly thought that Zerg was the one who was supposed to be swarming, but Terrans these days have an endless line of NUTS coming out of their base. Zerglings are just fillers meant to absorb damage until we can get our damage dealers, namely the banelings and ultras, to connect. I have to say I'm not really that fond of the current metagame.

I haven't even mentioned hellbats and they are flying into our bases like bats out of hell and I think every Zerg remembers the old days of Hellions roasting our drones - and they got nerfed! Thank you blizzard for introducing this scenario once again. I think that Blizzard is secretly in league with Anger Management therapists.

At the end of this rant I would like to point out that any good Zerg part of our little community is hereby recruited to a Cheese Terran year. 2013 will be the death of any kind of CC first or triple CC openings. Let's reduce them to sobbing little children longing for a hug from mom, but stuck in a nuclear powered suit that envelops them in a cold atmosphere, and making them fear Zerg once more.

I think Soulkey proved this point during the GSL finals against Innovation. Triple CC should not be the standard macro build of this matchup. It's just asking to get our behinds handed to us in an untimely fashion.

*
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
June 03 2013 19:55 GMT
#2
it aint easy being cheesy.

But honestly, they keep doing I keep busting.

thank you for the 80% win on ladder.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
June 03 2013 20:31 GMT
#3
But I already get cheesed like 2/3 games... :/
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10493 Posts
June 03 2013 21:34 GMT
#4
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 09:52:07
June 04 2013 09:48 GMT
#5
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.



My point in OP about becoming better players was not regarding cheese, the economy or metagame at all. We are forced to become better micro players because of widow mines. I did not say cheese your way to grandmasters.

I want to incite a revolution in the metagame. Just as when MVP was cheesing triple nexus protoss in WOL and when Soulkey cheesed Innovation in the last MLG finals. It is the essential mechanic of metagame evolution - push the limits as far as you can and it is only by the will of your opponent how much you can actually get away with.

There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy. What if Terrans didn't have reapers and Zergs went queen heavy openings with 4 hatcheries? We would streamroll into victory just based off an overly greedy economy.

Terrans are in a spot right now where they can go 1 rax 2 CC, in several variations, and Zerg is allowing it because we are playing our standard macro style - and it is not up to par with the strength of the Terran economy as it is now.

I am not advocating cheese to become better players. That would be counterproductive in my mind. But we will be better players if we do not allow our opponents to play overly greedy.
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
June 04 2013 13:47 GMT
#6
There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy.


Yeah, big difference....
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 13:52:49
June 05 2013 12:58 GMT
#7
Thanks for reading my entire post Frits. You're a sweetheart.

There should be a law against taking things out of context.

To quote bash.org: "i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

http://bash.org/?4281
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
AnythingThenDelete
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
381 Posts
June 05 2013 16:22 GMT
#8
This post felt like the time of the first gsl, now with the zerg patch era past, it seems childish.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 05 2013 20:00 GMT
#9
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 05 2013 20:38 GMT
#10
On June 06 2013 05:00 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.

up to a point though. If you do a 2 rax all in as terran with SCVs, well, you'll get really good at it with practice but eventually it'll stop working and then what?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 06 2013 00:29 GMT
#11
What if all you do is macro and never punish your opponent when he is being greedy?
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#120
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
RotterdaM336
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 629
RotterdaM 336
ProTech150
elazer 141
SHIN 76
trigger 67
IndyStarCraft 6
BRAT_OK 5
MindelVK 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26948
Shuttle 1150
EffOrt 987
Jaedong 717
Soulkey 443
BeSt 298
ggaemo 206
Snow 166
Mong 156
firebathero 143
[ Show more ]
actioN 70
Pusan 38
Hm[arnc] 22
HiyA 22
Terrorterran 21
NaDa 20
Rock 18
GoRush 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4909
qojqva1702
420jenkins245
League of Legends
JimRising 428
Counter-Strike
fl0m1316
zeus626
edward159
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr45
Other Games
singsing3660
FrodaN1272
B2W.Neo324
DeMusliM313
crisheroes283
KnowMe124
QueenE74
Mew2King64
ArmadaUGS52
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream6356
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 375
Other Games
BasetradeTV214
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile114
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV6
League of Legends
• Nemesis4424
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
12h 52m
Maestros of the Game
20h 22m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
21h 52m
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 12h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 21h
Online Event
1d 22h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Bombastic Starleague
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.