• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:51
CET 11:51
KST 19:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)1Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win2RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket
Tourneys
[Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together?
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2196 users

Call to action: Cheese those terrans!

Blogs > F4ble
Post a Reply
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 03 2013 19:52 GMT
#1
I think most Zergs these days are fairly agitated when it comes to the ZvT matchup. The introduction of widow mines, albeit not the worst of our troubles, are definitely forcing us to become better players. By that I am primarily thinking of our micro. We have to detonate those mines before each engagement and that can be tricky as hell. Either that or mass ultras and watch them om nom nom through the (first of many) terran army.

I honestly thought that Zerg was the one who was supposed to be swarming, but Terrans these days have an endless line of NUTS coming out of their base. Zerglings are just fillers meant to absorb damage until we can get our damage dealers, namely the banelings and ultras, to connect. I have to say I'm not really that fond of the current metagame.

I haven't even mentioned hellbats and they are flying into our bases like bats out of hell and I think every Zerg remembers the old days of Hellions roasting our drones - and they got nerfed! Thank you blizzard for introducing this scenario once again. I think that Blizzard is secretly in league with Anger Management therapists.

At the end of this rant I would like to point out that any good Zerg part of our little community is hereby recruited to a Cheese Terran year. 2013 will be the death of any kind of CC first or triple CC openings. Let's reduce them to sobbing little children longing for a hug from mom, but stuck in a nuclear powered suit that envelops them in a cold atmosphere, and making them fear Zerg once more.

I think Soulkey proved this point during the GSL finals against Innovation. Triple CC should not be the standard macro build of this matchup. It's just asking to get our behinds handed to us in an untimely fashion.

*
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
June 03 2013 19:55 GMT
#2
it aint easy being cheesy.

But honestly, they keep doing I keep busting.

thank you for the 80% win on ladder.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
June 03 2013 20:31 GMT
#3
But I already get cheesed like 2/3 games... :/
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10241 Posts
June 03 2013 21:34 GMT
#4
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 09:52:07
June 04 2013 09:48 GMT
#5
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.



My point in OP about becoming better players was not regarding cheese, the economy or metagame at all. We are forced to become better micro players because of widow mines. I did not say cheese your way to grandmasters.

I want to incite a revolution in the metagame. Just as when MVP was cheesing triple nexus protoss in WOL and when Soulkey cheesed Innovation in the last MLG finals. It is the essential mechanic of metagame evolution - push the limits as far as you can and it is only by the will of your opponent how much you can actually get away with.

There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy. What if Terrans didn't have reapers and Zergs went queen heavy openings with 4 hatcheries? We would streamroll into victory just based off an overly greedy economy.

Terrans are in a spot right now where they can go 1 rax 2 CC, in several variations, and Zerg is allowing it because we are playing our standard macro style - and it is not up to par with the strength of the Terran economy as it is now.

I am not advocating cheese to become better players. That would be counterproductive in my mind. But we will be better players if we do not allow our opponents to play overly greedy.
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
June 04 2013 13:47 GMT
#6
There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy.


Yeah, big difference....
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 13:52:49
June 05 2013 12:58 GMT
#7
Thanks for reading my entire post Frits. You're a sweetheart.

There should be a law against taking things out of context.

To quote bash.org: "i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

http://bash.org/?4281
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
AnythingThenDelete
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
381 Posts
June 05 2013 16:22 GMT
#8
This post felt like the time of the first gsl, now with the zerg patch era past, it seems childish.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 05 2013 20:00 GMT
#9
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 05 2013 20:38 GMT
#10
On June 06 2013 05:00 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.

up to a point though. If you do a 2 rax all in as terran with SCVs, well, you'll get really good at it with practice but eventually it'll stop working and then what?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 06 2013 00:29 GMT
#11
What if all you do is macro and never punish your opponent when he is being greedy?
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #61
CranKy Ducklings138
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 168
ProTech20
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 1256
Horang2 985
Flash 529
Shuttle 491
Barracks 450
Mini 251
Soma 224
Backho 203
Hyun 176
Pusan 132
[ Show more ]
Light 118
Last 108
Dewaltoss 74
Rush 72
ggaemo 67
ZerO 54
NotJumperer 53
sorry 51
ToSsGirL 46
Mind 46
Snow 27
soO 26
ajuk12(nOOB) 22
Noble 11
Terrorterran 10
Hm[arnc] 7
SilentControl 7
zelot 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe162
League of Legends
JimRising 390
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2038
Other Games
summit1g13487
ceh9758
Fuzer 275
QueenE36
Trikslyr16
B2W.Neo12
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick705
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream236
Other Games
BasetradeTV46
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH159
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2233
• lizZardDota251
League of Legends
• Jankos1919
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 10m
OSC
2h 10m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
13h 10m
The PondCast
23h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 12h
OSC
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.