• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:06
CEST 11:06
KST 18:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
protoss aoe skill expression 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #3/8 - Clem Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 Data needed
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6713 users

Call to action: Cheese those terrans!

Blogs > F4ble
Post a Reply
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 03 2013 19:52 GMT
#1
I think most Zergs these days are fairly agitated when it comes to the ZvT matchup. The introduction of widow mines, albeit not the worst of our troubles, are definitely forcing us to become better players. By that I am primarily thinking of our micro. We have to detonate those mines before each engagement and that can be tricky as hell. Either that or mass ultras and watch them om nom nom through the (first of many) terran army.

I honestly thought that Zerg was the one who was supposed to be swarming, but Terrans these days have an endless line of NUTS coming out of their base. Zerglings are just fillers meant to absorb damage until we can get our damage dealers, namely the banelings and ultras, to connect. I have to say I'm not really that fond of the current metagame.

I haven't even mentioned hellbats and they are flying into our bases like bats out of hell and I think every Zerg remembers the old days of Hellions roasting our drones - and they got nerfed! Thank you blizzard for introducing this scenario once again. I think that Blizzard is secretly in league with Anger Management therapists.

At the end of this rant I would like to point out that any good Zerg part of our little community is hereby recruited to a Cheese Terran year. 2013 will be the death of any kind of CC first or triple CC openings. Let's reduce them to sobbing little children longing for a hug from mom, but stuck in a nuclear powered suit that envelops them in a cold atmosphere, and making them fear Zerg once more.

I think Soulkey proved this point during the GSL finals against Innovation. Triple CC should not be the standard macro build of this matchup. It's just asking to get our behinds handed to us in an untimely fashion.

*
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
June 03 2013 19:55 GMT
#2
it aint easy being cheesy.

But honestly, they keep doing I keep busting.

thank you for the 80% win on ladder.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
June 03 2013 20:31 GMT
#3
But I already get cheesed like 2/3 games... :/
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10534 Posts
June 03 2013 21:34 GMT
#4
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 09:52:07
June 04 2013 09:48 GMT
#5
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.



My point in OP about becoming better players was not regarding cheese, the economy or metagame at all. We are forced to become better micro players because of widow mines. I did not say cheese your way to grandmasters.

I want to incite a revolution in the metagame. Just as when MVP was cheesing triple nexus protoss in WOL and when Soulkey cheesed Innovation in the last MLG finals. It is the essential mechanic of metagame evolution - push the limits as far as you can and it is only by the will of your opponent how much you can actually get away with.

There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy. What if Terrans didn't have reapers and Zergs went queen heavy openings with 4 hatcheries? We would streamroll into victory just based off an overly greedy economy.

Terrans are in a spot right now where they can go 1 rax 2 CC, in several variations, and Zerg is allowing it because we are playing our standard macro style - and it is not up to par with the strength of the Terran economy as it is now.

I am not advocating cheese to become better players. That would be counterproductive in my mind. But we will be better players if we do not allow our opponents to play overly greedy.
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
June 04 2013 13:47 GMT
#6
There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy.


Yeah, big difference....
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 13:52:49
June 05 2013 12:58 GMT
#7
Thanks for reading my entire post Frits. You're a sweetheart.

There should be a law against taking things out of context.

To quote bash.org: "i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

http://bash.org/?4281
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
AnythingThenDelete
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
381 Posts
June 05 2013 16:22 GMT
#8
This post felt like the time of the first gsl, now with the zerg patch era past, it seems childish.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 05 2013 20:00 GMT
#9
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 05 2013 20:38 GMT
#10
On June 06 2013 05:00 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.

up to a point though. If you do a 2 rax all in as terran with SCVs, well, you'll get really good at it with practice but eventually it'll stop working and then what?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 06 2013 00:29 GMT
#11
What if all you do is macro and never punish your opponent when he is being greedy?
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 153
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 672
firebathero 407
Soma 168
Leta 102
Larva 96
Mind 72
Dewaltoss 58
EffOrt 51
Bale 34
hero 29
[ Show more ]
Light 22
Sharp 19
NaDa 17
sSak 16
ZerO 8
Terrorterran 8
Counter-Strike
summit1g5793
fl0m1421
shoxiejesuss901
byalli118
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King116
Other Games
ceh9616
Happy322
Sick132
Tasteless126
ZerO(Twitch)2
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH232
• StrangeGG 47
• LUISG 11
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV403
• lizZardDota2331
League of Legends
• Jankos1012
• Stunt456
Upcoming Events
Escore
54m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1h 54m
Big Brain Bouts
6h 54m
DnS vs Rex
Reynor vs Cure
Replay Cast
14h 54m
RSL Revival
23h 54m
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
1d 8h
Ladder Legends
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-05
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.