• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:17
CEST 22:17
KST 05:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon8[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues23LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris76
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: A North American StarCraft LAN Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 202 SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ alas... i aint gon' lie to u bruh... BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro16 Group A [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread The PlayStation 5 General RTS Discussion Thread Iron Harvest: 1920+ Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Laptop on Rent in Delhi – Smart Choice for Student
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1316 users

Call to action: Cheese those terrans!

Blogs > F4ble
Post a Reply
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 03 2013 19:52 GMT
#1
I think most Zergs these days are fairly agitated when it comes to the ZvT matchup. The introduction of widow mines, albeit not the worst of our troubles, are definitely forcing us to become better players. By that I am primarily thinking of our micro. We have to detonate those mines before each engagement and that can be tricky as hell. Either that or mass ultras and watch them om nom nom through the (first of many) terran army.

I honestly thought that Zerg was the one who was supposed to be swarming, but Terrans these days have an endless line of NUTS coming out of their base. Zerglings are just fillers meant to absorb damage until we can get our damage dealers, namely the banelings and ultras, to connect. I have to say I'm not really that fond of the current metagame.

I haven't even mentioned hellbats and they are flying into our bases like bats out of hell and I think every Zerg remembers the old days of Hellions roasting our drones - and they got nerfed! Thank you blizzard for introducing this scenario once again. I think that Blizzard is secretly in league with Anger Management therapists.

At the end of this rant I would like to point out that any good Zerg part of our little community is hereby recruited to a Cheese Terran year. 2013 will be the death of any kind of CC first or triple CC openings. Let's reduce them to sobbing little children longing for a hug from mom, but stuck in a nuclear powered suit that envelops them in a cold atmosphere, and making them fear Zerg once more.

I think Soulkey proved this point during the GSL finals against Innovation. Triple CC should not be the standard macro build of this matchup. It's just asking to get our behinds handed to us in an untimely fashion.

*
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
June 03 2013 19:55 GMT
#2
it aint easy being cheesy.

But honestly, they keep doing I keep busting.

thank you for the 80% win on ladder.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
June 03 2013 20:31 GMT
#3
But I already get cheesed like 2/3 games... :/
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10190 Posts
June 03 2013 21:34 GMT
#4
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 09:52:07
June 04 2013 09:48 GMT
#5
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.



My point in OP about becoming better players was not regarding cheese, the economy or metagame at all. We are forced to become better micro players because of widow mines. I did not say cheese your way to grandmasters.

I want to incite a revolution in the metagame. Just as when MVP was cheesing triple nexus protoss in WOL and when Soulkey cheesed Innovation in the last MLG finals. It is the essential mechanic of metagame evolution - push the limits as far as you can and it is only by the will of your opponent how much you can actually get away with.

There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy. What if Terrans didn't have reapers and Zergs went queen heavy openings with 4 hatcheries? We would streamroll into victory just based off an overly greedy economy.

Terrans are in a spot right now where they can go 1 rax 2 CC, in several variations, and Zerg is allowing it because we are playing our standard macro style - and it is not up to par with the strength of the Terran economy as it is now.

I am not advocating cheese to become better players. That would be counterproductive in my mind. But we will be better players if we do not allow our opponents to play overly greedy.
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
June 04 2013 13:47 GMT
#6
There is a big difference between trying to win by cheese and using cheese as a tool to punish openings that in fact are too greedy.


Yeah, big difference....
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 13:52:49
June 05 2013 12:58 GMT
#7
Thanks for reading my entire post Frits. You're a sweetheart.

There should be a law against taking things out of context.

To quote bash.org: "i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet"

http://bash.org/?4281
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
AnythingThenDelete
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
381 Posts
June 05 2013 16:22 GMT
#8
This post felt like the time of the first gsl, now with the zerg patch era past, it seems childish.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 05 2013 20:00 GMT
#9
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
June 05 2013 20:38 GMT
#10
On June 06 2013 05:00 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 06:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
"are definitely forcing us to become better players"

then become better players? sorry if i sound candid but you just said your solution. cheesing doesnt make you a better player.


Cheesing is part of the game. Anything you do that is part of the game makes you better.

up to a point though. If you do a 2 rax all in as terran with SCVs, well, you'll get really good at it with practice but eventually it'll stop working and then what?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
F4ble
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway73 Posts
June 06 2013 00:29 GMT
#11
What if all you do is macro and never punish your opponent when he is being greedy?
Check out clash.gg for smart and organized list of vods for GSL, SPL, Dreamhack, LoL and more.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 187
UpATreeSC 141
JuggernautJason99
ProTech75
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2814
Rain 1438
Bisu 579
Shuttle 573
Mini 307
EffOrt 210
Dewaltoss 164
BeSt 148
Soulkey 115
firebathero 111
[ Show more ]
LaStScan 96
ggaemo 72
sSak 65
sas.Sziky 30
Mong 19
NaDa 7
Dota 2
The International126771
Gorgc12350
PGG 34
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps496
Stewie2K398
flusha139
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu413
Other Games
Grubby3072
summit1g1056
fl0m753
ToD224
SortOf165
C9.Mang0161
PPMD27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1645
BasetradeTV23
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• Azhi_Dahaki4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1554
• Ler80
League of Legends
• Doublelift1007
Other Games
• imaqtpie1073
• Scarra589
• Shiphtur211
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
13h 43m
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
Online Event
15h 43m
Kung Fu Cup
15h 43m
BSL Team Wars
22h 43m
RSL Revival
1d 13h
Maestros of the Game
1d 17h
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
1d 19h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.