Friend: Look man, the biggest difference between rich people and poor people is the rich people want it more. They try harder, do more shit and yes some of that shit is dodgy but that’s life, it ain’t fair.
Me: I know life isn’t fair.
Friend: Then what are you complaining about.
Me: I’m complaining about the fact that people only seem to see the world through their own perspectives and not think of the bigger picture. Everyone seems to think if somebody is rich it’s because they worked harder, they’ve got more brains and if you’re poor it’s because you were lazy and that if you want success just work harder. That everything is depended on the individual bullshit. Maybe that’s true for us because we’re middle class and live in a first world country but if you and I lived in some third world African hole then do you really think it matters if we just tried harder? You think well if I worked 14 hours instead of 12 hours making 30cents an hour that somehow your life would change?
Friend: Well…I’m glad we weren’t born in Africa. Like I said, life ain’t fair.
Me: I know life ain’t fair. And its not just in Africa. It happens in first world places too. I guess it just bothers me that most people seem to think the individual’s effort matters more than the environment around them.
I don''t know about your country OP, but in my country it seems like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer regardless of how smart and hard working they are. "Life isn't fair" sounds like wealthy-person propaganda to me when discussing how some people have it easy and some don't.
Of course, as long as you have enough money to eat and sleep comfortably, having a loving family and things like that are more important than wealth.
Justifying unfair circumstances by saying that "life isn't fair" is just lazy and terrible thinking. So what if life is not fair? That has no bearing at all on whether or not our society ought to aspire to justice and fairness.
I know not many people will read the article in the second spoiler but if you've got a spare 10min it really is worth it. Justice and fairness is a very human construct. It is something we invented since no other animal believe in those 2 concepts. That means that these 2 concepts are what makes us human, but they are not natural since they are exclusive to us and not universial like the need food or water. My friend has one of those type A personalities that needs to control everything. He works hard and does very well financially and thus believes that success or failure is simply a function of effort. And that is true for the individual, but it just irks me that people think this is also true for a society as a whole. ie:
On May 23 2013 16:11 Sauwelios wrote: Justifying unfair circumstances by saying that "life isn't fair" is just lazy and terrible thinking. So what if life is not fair? That has no bearing at all on whether or not our society ought to aspire to justice and fairness.
Indeed. Life is not fair, but our society could be.
"most people seem to think the individual’s effort matters more than the environment around them."
I think it's about both of those but I think the environment wins with 60%. And since there are less rich people in the world than poor people. I really have to pick environment. If people knew how to become rich they would have already done it.
Be lucky enough and you can be born to rich family. Then the grinding(hard work) part is already been done for you.
it is both individual effort and environment that gets you places in life. the notion that every rich person got their wealth handed to them is every bit as stupid as assuming that every poor person got there because they're a lazy shit.
for every paris hilton, there are a lot of people who became wealthy through their own means, busting their ass and taking risks at the right time. i also know a lot of people who are poor through unfortunate circumstances and no real moves of their own, but i know many more who are poor because they're fucking idiots and made their own poor choices.
unless you are going by individual case by case, it is ridiculous to assume things one way or another
Life isnt fair, life could be fair but thats not how capitalism works. rich are getting richer while poor are getting poorer. if you want to succeed you need luck, sure working hard is fine and dandy but the fact that so many people look down upon poor thinking that they are just lazy fucks and if they tried harder they'd be rich as well..... get your head out of your asses people.
On May 23 2013 22:40 QuanticHawk wrote: it is both individual effort and environment that gets you places in life. the notion that every rich person got their wealth handed to them is every bit as stupid as assuming that every poor person got there because they're a lazy shit.
for every paris hilton, there are a lot of people who became wealthy through their own means, busting their ass and taking risks at the right time. i also know a lot of people who are poor through unfortunate circumstances and no real moves of their own, but i know many more who are poor because they're fucking idiots and made their own poor choices.
unless you are going by individual case by case, it is ridiculous to assume things one way or another
for only being 19 years old you seem to know alot of people, are you sure its not just mostly bullshit from your part?
On May 23 2013 14:28 Starcraft 2 wrote: How a person looks also affects how successful they are :'(
Uhhh... ever heard of Steven Tyler? McJagger? Drew Barrymore at times? Looks are irrelevant. Bill Gates is even a pretty ugly mother fucker.
Even if you suggest that those people WERE attractive at one point, beauty IS relative. Society may imply that this or that look is more attractive, but it only affects those who want society to direct their visions of the world. If you accept society's opinions, then you're going to be apart of that system. If you don't give two fucks, a lot of the time you can bend society's "rules" and still be successful though you are not attractive by society's standards.
This is one of the ideas that is generally misconceived due to how much influence media has on people's minds in our current time. It's a lie spread by companies to attempt to get you to focus on things that are less important, and that don't matter in the long run. Any company that hires you based on looks is probably a shitty company to work for, unless that's the type of company you want to work for. The same goes for girls you're attracted to - if she is convinced that you have to dress and look a certain way, then you better already be doing that - otherwise, you're going to assimilate into a personality that is created by someone else - which defies the definition of PERSONality.
On May 23 2013 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Life isnt fair, life could be fair but thats not how capitalism works. rich are getting richer while poor are getting poorer. if you want to succeed you need luck, sure working hard is fine and dandy but the fact that so many people look down upon poor thinking that they are just lazy fucks and if they tried harder they'd be rich as well..... get your head out of your asses people.
Another misconception - Life requires luck for you to be successful. Just because people had luck in getting where they are doesn't mean they depended on it. Day9 for example got lucky in the sense that the one thing he invested his time in started becoming more popular, aka Starcraft. But was it luck? Would Day9 have been just as popular if he had never discovered Starcraft, but did something similar with something like Magic: The Gathering? Or perhaps Halo 3? If he was just as passionate, would he not have done the same thing given that his personality stayed relatively close to the same?
To assume that life REQUIRES luck to be successful is just as dumb as assuming that life requires NO luck to be successful. Some people need it, others don't. Just because a lot of people that you know or have read about had luck, and it helped them immensely to get where they are does not mean that it's required by everyone.
On May 23 2013 19:41 Meteo Rain wrote: "most people seem to think the individual’s effort matters more than the environment around them."
I think it's about both of those but I think the environment wins with 60%. And since there are less rich people in the world than poor people. I really have to pick environment. If people knew how to become rich they would have already done it.
Be lucky enough and you can be born to rich family. Then the grinding(hard work) part is already been done for you.
Discuss
I disagree, but not completely. Something to consider is the perception of the person. Two people can be given the EXACT same environment, but end up different. Internal monologue is as important if not more important than any external factor including environment and genetics. Both of those things can affect your internal monologue, but that doesn't mean it's going to affect you the same way as someone even if you're both relatively, or even almost exactly the same.
Environment and genetics play a part in your life, but it's up to you on how to deal with those circumstances. Life is 5% event and consequence, and 95% how you react to either.
On May 23 2013 22:40 QuanticHawk wrote: it is both individual effort and environment that gets you places in life. the notion that every rich person got their wealth handed to them is every bit as stupid as assuming that every poor person got there because they're a lazy shit.
for every paris hilton, there are a lot of people who became wealthy through their own means, busting their ass and taking risks at the right time. i also know a lot of people who are poor through unfortunate circumstances and no real moves of their own, but i know many more who are poor because they're fucking idiots and made their own poor choices.
unless you are going by individual case by case, it is ridiculous to assume things one way or another
for only being 19 years old you seem to know alot of people, are you sure its not just mostly bullshit from your part?
On May 23 2013 22:40 QuanticHawk wrote: it is both individual effort and environment that gets you places in life. the notion that every rich person got their wealth handed to them is every bit as stupid as assuming that every poor person got there because they're a lazy shit.
for every paris hilton, there are a lot of people who became wealthy through their own means, busting their ass and taking risks at the right time. i also know a lot of people who are poor through unfortunate circumstances and no real moves of their own, but i know many more who are poor because they're fucking idiots and made their own poor choices.
unless you are going by individual case by case, it is ridiculous to assume things one way or another
for only being 19 years old you seem to know alot of people, are you sure its not just mostly bullshit from your part?
You sure seem to know a lot about the ages of people you've never met before in real life. Are you sure you're not just bullshitting?
EPT
