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On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. o Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going 
I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain? 
Edit: I think "Wahlschein ungültig machen" would be "to spoil the vote". Votes that cannot be accepted because the form has been filled out incorrectly or damaged or whatever are called "spoilt votes" or "spoiled votes". You can do this intentionally (and some people do) so I guess the verb "spoil" would be used for that.
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On September 23 2013 04:52 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:43 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:38 KeksX wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Konrad Adam, AfD, has an article on Welt where he speaks out against certain voting rights. So he kinda has a point. Not defending it, just throwing this in here: http://www.freitag.de/autoren/andreas-kemper/zur-demokratiefeindlichkeit-der-afd One guy does not a party line make. There are always bad apples in any party. As long as AfD is not putting this forward as their party agenda I'm completely willing to tolerate one man's opinion and disregard it as the nonsense it is. There are much more important issues at stake. You seem to clearly not understand the ideology of the AfD and the problem with this party in the german political enviroment. They are ultra-conservative with ideology from 18. century. They´re market fundamentalist. They say you should be able to sell your organs if you don´t have work. They want to withdraw the right to vote for the "under class". They are absurd and dangerous if they seize any political might.
They are also the only anti-euro party which is pretty much the only thing that matters to me. I don't believe they actually have those things in their official agenda and even if they did they would never happen. If only some other parties had the sense to be more eurosceptics we wouldn't need to be having this discussion. It's a crying shame that the leading country in Europe is so blindly leading us on this path of misery.
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On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain?
why should you be allowed to complain? you decided to move to Germany
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On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain?
Actually no.
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On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain?
Oh yes. Though at least a part of Germans would probably say that things don't concern you if you aren't a citizen. I'd say they'd be wrong. As long as you are a tax paying member of the society things most definitely do concern you.
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On September 23 2013 04:58 Dulak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:52 Nachtwind wrote:On September 23 2013 04:43 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:38 KeksX wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Konrad Adam, AfD, has an article on Welt where he speaks out against certain voting rights. So he kinda has a point. Not defending it, just throwing this in here: http://www.freitag.de/autoren/andreas-kemper/zur-demokratiefeindlichkeit-der-afd One guy does not a party line make. There are always bad apples in any party. As long as AfD is not putting this forward as their party agenda I'm completely willing to tolerate one man's opinion and disregard it as the nonsense it is. There are much more important issues at stake. You seem to clearly not understand the ideology of the AfD and the problem with this party in the german political enviroment. They are ultra-conservative with ideology from 18. century. They´re market fundamentalist. They say you should be able to sell your organs if you don´t have work. They want to withdraw the right to vote for the "under class". They are absurd and dangerous if they seize any political might. They are also the only anti-euro party which is pretty much the only thing that matters to me. I don't believe they actually have those things in their official agenda and even if they did they would never happen. If only some other parties had the sense to be more eurosceptics we wouldn't need to be having this discussion. It's a crying shame that the leading country in Europe is so blindly leading us on this path of misery.
The truth is it´s the other way around.The return to the "Deutsche Mark" is only a construct to hide their ideology for the things they want to do.
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On September 23 2013 04:58 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain? why should you be allowed to complain? you decided to move to Germany
I'm a post-doc at a university. It's hard enough finding a job as it is, finding one in a specific country is very difficult so moving to a different country was a necessity. Plus I am still European and the result of the German election will affect a lot of Europe. But this is de-railing the thread somewhat I feel.
Edit: And as Dulak points out, I pay tax in Germany (and have done for years) yet have no say in how that money is spent.
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too bad that spd/grüne dont want to make a coalition with die linke.
would have laughed if merkel cant get kanzler with ~49% of seats.
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Voting rights really should be granted to (NOT tied to) taxpaying members of a society. Electorate nationalism feels like a relic nowadays.
But I suspect this is way down the list of dumb things humans do that should be changed at some point :p
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On September 23 2013 05:16 75 wrote:
too bad that spd/grüne dont want to make a coalition with die linke.
would have laughed if merkel cant get kanzler with ~49% of seats.
only person who would laugh are CDU, they'd get clear majority at the re-elections...
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On September 23 2013 05:20 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 05:16 75 wrote:
too bad that spd/grüne dont want to make a coalition with die linke.
would have laughed if merkel cant get kanzler with ~49% of seats. only person who would laugh are CDU, they'd get clear majority at the re-elections...
and the following 5 elections :D
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On September 23 2013 05:07 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:58 sharkie wrote:On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain? why should you be allowed to complain? you decided to move to Germany I'm a post-doc at a university. It's hard enough finding a job as it is, finding one in a specific country is very difficult so moving to a different country was a necessity. Plus I am still European and the result of the German election will affect a lot of Europe. But this is de-railing the thread somewhat I feel. Edit: And as Dulak points out, I pay tax in Germany (and have done for years) yet have no say in how that money is spent.
so you would like to be able to vote in 2 countries? assuming the country you are from does indeed have a democracy.
if not, why dont you become a german then? i believe there is that possibility, and if you are invested in the country as much that you would like to vote here then step up, and become a german.
In germany foreigners are able to participate in the Kommunalwahlen and therefore contribute to the political circus.
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On September 23 2013 05:07 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:58 sharkie wrote:On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain? why should you be allowed to complain? you decided to move to Germany I'm a post-doc at a university. It's hard enough finding a job as it is, finding one in a specific country is very difficult so moving to a different country was a necessity. Plus I am still European and the result of the German election will affect a lot of Europe. But this is de-railing the thread somewhat I feel. Edit: And as Dulak points out, I pay tax in Germany (and have done for years) yet have no say in how that money is spent.
Don't worry about derailing the thread. There are posters in here that claim members of the left party are "sending people into gulags". So as long as you're not completely clueless or insane I'd say you're on the save side.
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On September 23 2013 05:19 Taguchi wrote:
Voting rights really should be granted to (NOT tied to) taxpaying members of a society. Electorate nationalism feels like a relic nowadays.
But I suspect this is way down the list of dumb things humans do that should be changed at some point :p
well that makes it sound too easy but in general yeah... It's a shame people who've been here for years aren't allowed to vote. My father's from sweden, came in when he was 30 or something like that and isn't allowed to vote in anything besides local mayor elections and stuff like that besides being here for a shitton of years and having a family in germay.
Really weird imo.
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On September 23 2013 05:39 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 05:07 Melliflue wrote:On September 23 2013 04:58 sharkie wrote:On September 23 2013 04:57 Melliflue wrote:On September 23 2013 04:47 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:41 cutler wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 Dulak wrote:On September 23 2013 04:24 cutler wrote:
German Election ended well from my point of view. Only two numbers are alarming. AfD alomst made 5% and only 73% actually voted. That means we have 32% people in Germay that are against democracy and free vote. Thats sad...
So people who voted for AfD are against democracy and free vote when they want more referendums on important issues? And also the people who chose not to vote are also against democracy and free vote? Please explain. Everyone got the duty to vote in democracy cause that how democracy works. Every single vote counts. I know a lot of people dont believe this but i really believe that my vote and my interest in politcs can change something. If people are frustated with politcs ( and i can understand that) they should make an election and make their vote false. ( in German Wahlschein ungültig machen) i dont really know the correct english term for that. By that act their make an correct vote for democracy without supporting an bad ideology. Being free means you are also free to not vote. It simply means you accept the outcome of other people's votes. I do believe though that if you don't vote you also better not complain too much about how things are going I can't vote (I'm not German, I just live in Germany). Am I still allowed to complain? why should you be allowed to complain? you decided to move to Germany I'm a post-doc at a university. It's hard enough finding a job as it is, finding one in a specific country is very difficult so moving to a different country was a necessity. Plus I am still European and the result of the German election will affect a lot of Europe. But this is de-railing the thread somewhat I feel. Edit: And as Dulak points out, I pay tax in Germany (and have done for years) yet have no say in how that money is spent. Don't worry about derailing the thread. There are posters in here that claim members of the left party are "sending people into gulags". So as long as you're not completely clueless or insane I'd say you're on the save side.
I take this as a personal attack.
Please educate yourself about the history of the DDR and common practices in communist regimes.
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On September 23 2013 05:40 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 05:19 Taguchi wrote:
Voting rights really should be granted to (NOT tied to) taxpaying members of a society. Electorate nationalism feels like a relic nowadays.
But I suspect this is way down the list of dumb things humans do that should be changed at some point :p well that makes it sound too easy but in general yeah... It's a shame people who've been here for years aren't allowed to vote. My father's from sweden, came in when he was 30 or something like that and isn't allowed to vote in anything besides local mayor elections and stuff like that besides being here for a shitton of years and having a family in germay. Really weird imo.
pretty sure he'd be allowed to if he changed citizenship?
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On sidenote, I would so love it if it was possible to make a list of journalist question in main political talkshows/news sorted by questions about
-polticians
-possible coalitions
-actual politics ("Inhalte").
All those journalists always complaining about lack of politics, but I don't think they ever really ask questions about it.
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ggrrg, although i dislike the left as much as the next guy (me being a social democrat) they are nowhere near as bad as anything you might have experienced in eastern europe. People should be warned about their SED and stasi past, but their party program isnt completely delusional like the one from the AfD for example.
Alot of the left members actually came from the most left wing of the SPD, and therefore cannot be counted as communists, even though there are some communist tendencies on the far left of that party.
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So probably no CDU only government. There is a majority left of the CDU with SPD, Greens and The Left. I wish they could get it together to overtake Merkel and change the chancellor. But they probably won't, which is a shame.
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Damn, the CDU can vote down any new propositions to change the Constitution again...
I foresee no Gay Equality for the next 4 years ... :X
On September 23 2013 05:48 Serinox wrote:
So probably no CDU only government. There is a majority left of the CDU with SPD, Greens and The Left. I wish they could get it together to overtake Merkel and change the chancellor. But they probably won't, which is a shame.
In the Chancellor-Duel, Steinbrück said he would never coalition with Die Linke.
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EPT
