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Minor Dreamhack Spoilers!
I wasn't able to catch Dreamhack live, but I have been watching the vods on twitch.tv ( which you can find here if you haven't seen them: http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacktv/b/396294648 ) and I noticed a very peculiar thing. A lot of foreign Protoss players would attempt risky strategies that I can only describe as half-ass. A perfect example was Sase vs Hyun. Sase's build the second game versus Hyun was FFE into dark shrine in his base beside his nexus, hoping to warp-in dark templar with a proxy pylon and a warp prism.
So how did this play out? Hyun simply makes an overseer and scouts out Sase's base (like any Zerg should do), seeing a dark shrine, gateways, and a robotics facility (even spots the warp prism). Artosis even said on the stream something to the effect of, 'I don't know what Sase's plan could have been, he didn't bother to hide the dark shrine, so he must've just been hoping Hyun doesn't scout'. What kind of strategy is that? In fact all Sase had was one stalker patrolling the perimeter of his main - that seems like a really lazy risk that's almost certainly going to fail.
Fast forward to Huk vs Gumiho game #1. Huk goes for DT's off a fast expansion, puts the DT shrine in his base, doesn't make a warp prism and opts for a proxy pylon on Whirlwind that's on the high ground (where most Terran's would take their third). Huk puts the pylon, goes to scout, two marines chase him and he starts to go up the ramp to the Terran's third but thinks twice and heads a different way. It was a really odd way to move a probe, obvious that he didn't want to lead marines up there so Gumiho sends a marine up there - oh, a proxy pylon. Gumiho now knows something is up, either DT or a gateway all-in, sees the translucent blur of the DT, winds up taking two dark templar for about two scans, two marines, two or three SCV. Considering that Huk now has very few units, only a few probes ahead, and no colossi or storm on the way - he's considerably behind.
Both these games play out the same way, a really lazy risk is taken and doesn't pay off, then the Protoss just tries to play standard while they're behind. In fact sometimes they even put up a good fight, making you wonder what would have happened if they just played standard from the start, or put in some more effort to their risks. This seems really bizarre to me and it seems like a really bad strategy versus Koreans. They're known for their mechanics and if anything they're going to play really safe because they think they're better, wouldn't it be more advantageous to play standard, maybe even cut a few corners instead of trying these lazy risks like non-proxied dts?
The worst part is, sometimes these games turn out to be really good, and the foreigners are so far behind at the start and they almost come back before ultimately losing. It seems to me like it would be far more beneficial to play standard games, maybe with some corner cutting instead of these risky all-ins or hail mary plays.
 
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I think when any foreigner plays a Korean, he knows he is behind from the start so a hail mary play is all he really has in order to get a win. You can't really hope to outplay most Koreans, you just have to hope they make a mistake, like not scouting your Dark Shrine.
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It's not really 'lazy risks', it's more of a question of how committed a player is to doing a semi-allin/allin.
Especially off the back of expand builds, proxying a DT shrine is something I would never do, because it's just kind of silly. Expanding means you want to go to at least a little bit later in the game, but proxying tech is pretty frugging all-in, especially for protoss gateway-based allins (dt's, storm) because the tech isn't built into the production.
For instance-Bbyong vs Dear. Dear proxied a gateway, council, and DT shrine in the top left corner of the map. If it got scouted, Dear would've lost a massive amount of potential because charge and archons would've been gone in a snap of Bbyong's fingers-had the tech been in his main, the risk is mitigated. I wouldn't advise putting the tech in the main against Terran because scan, but against zerg when it's a lot harder to stop a random overlord from walking over proxy tech rather than walking into your main, the risk of losing damage mitigates the risk of having tech super vulnerable as the game keeps going.
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On April 29 2013 04:22 Magic_Mike wrote:
I think when any foreigner plays a Korean, he knows he is behind from the start so a hail mary play is all he really has in order to get a win. You can't really hope to outplay most Koreans, you just have to hope they make a mistake, like not scouting your Dark Shrine.
That logic seems so flawed though. Koreans are so good that I won't play them standard, instead I'll just hope they screw up, but they probably won't because they're so good. I don't see how taking a risk like that is actually better, if they're so good you won't win by playing a standard game wouldn't the same logic apply that they're so good they won't make a mistake like not scouting?
On April 29 2013 04:45 GTPGlitch wrote:
It's not really 'lazy risks', it's more of a question of how committed a player is to doing a semi-allin/allin.
Especially off the back of expand builds, proxying a DT shrine is something I would never do, because it's just kind of silly. Expanding means you want to go to at least a little bit later in the game, but proxying tech is pretty frugging all-in, especially for protoss gateway-based allins (dt's, storm) because the tech isn't built into the production.
For instance-Bbyong vs Dear. Dear proxied a gateway, council, and DT shrine in the top left corner of the map. If it got scouted, Dear would've lost a massive amount of potential because charge and archons would've been gone in a snap of Bbyong's fingers-had the tech been in his main, the risk is mitigated. I wouldn't advise putting the tech in the main against Terran because scan, but against zerg when it's a lot harder to stop a random overlord from walking over proxy tech rather than walking into your main, the risk of losing damage mitigates the risk of having tech super vulnerable as the game keeps going.
So then what's the logic? Koreans are so good that a foreigner cannot play them standard, so the foreigner will take a big risk, but not too big of a risk because then they won't have a follow-up... even though it won't matter because koreans are so good? It seems to me like if you're going to all-in you should make it as hard to scout as possible. A dark shrine in your base with the hope that they don't send in an overseer, even though every Zerg sends in an overseer, is pretty silly in my opinion.
The way I see it by putting your semi all-in in a place that's sure to get scouted, you're almost guaranteeing it's not going to work. Sure once it fails you'll have a back-up plan, but is that really what you want? A small chance of a risk paying off with a mediocre backup plan instead of a decent chance of winning with no back-up plan?
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EPT
