• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:48
CEST 09:48
KST 16:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event11Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Using AI to optimize marketing campaigns [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors ASL21 General Discussion Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1217 users

Origins: Dream Forge Maps pt. 2 "Early Days"

Blogs > SigmaFiE
Post a Reply
SigmaFiE
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States333 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-26 20:59:29
April 26 2013 20:37 GMT
#1
Origins: Dream Forge pt. 2 "Early Days



You may see the first part HERE.



Early Days

Ahhhh, the early days. Map making was in a prime position at this point in the game. Although the industry was like the wild west in many regards, community made maps outside of Korea had gained some traction. ESV was running the Korean Weekly, Map of the Month was still going strong, and we were coming off of TLMC--eagerly awaiting a new one. Dream Forge Maps was no different from the other teams at this point. We worked together to make the best maps we could and to improve our product.

We worked hard and diligently at first. We grew our team beyond what might be considered a "nominal" amount of mappers. We had talented members and we pushed the limits of what we considered to be "standard" not only in terms of concept, but also in aesthetic design and computational limits. However, there was a major problem that presented itself all too soon. Late 2012 became the precise timing of major tournament map pool stagnation.



On Map Pool Stagnation
+ Show Spoiler +
At one point I had a 10-14 page paper that I distributed around the map community to read. Unfortunately I have since lost that paper. I do not recall if I deleted it or not. If a mapper happens to still have access to the original long version -- I would greatly appreciate it if you sent it my way. Partly to review it, partly to see if I still agree with any of it. However, I do have the extremely short outline of it. Keep in mind that I had written this during the last 2 months of 2012 and do not know if I still think this or necessarily agree with it. For a reference on what I mean please turn to THIS thread.

Mapping Community Problems and Solutions
Problems

1.Emphasis of affecting change at “Premier” level tournaments instead of smaller tournaments
2.Statistical Measurement
3.Lack of “Competitive Features” in maps currently utilized in professional tournaments and ladder – Sticky Attitudes by players, tournaments, and map makers
4.Slow map pool rotations of both professional tournaments and ladder outside of Korea
5.Inter-community relations
6.Community Backlash
Solutions
1.Work with less major tournaments as primary body to affect map pool change
2.Same as above – yields statistical base of measurement to approach larger tournaments with
a.Potential Problem: 2013 planned reduction of tournaments
3.Broadening of acceptable features in maps for use in tournaments
4.Partnerships between tournament organizations – addresses Point 1.a. and 2.a. as well (kills 3 birds with 1 stone)
5.Increase map community public relations – requires some re-organization of map community
6.Same as above – introduces a more proper communication between major mapping organizations and the community
a.Potential Problem: Competition between the major map organizations.




Continuing Onwards with the Early Days

As a result of stagnation many people, including map makers, lost interest in Starcraft 2. Dream Forge hemorrhaged several early members. They moved on with their lives. While we still stay in touch every now and than, they left for greener pastures. Who could blame them? I certainly could not -- I always have and still maintain that I am a terrible map maker. Who was I to correct them? ESV discontinued their Korean Weekly to go after LoL league broadcasting, and reaching tournament organizers became impossible. Many of the old guard of map makers retired including Johanaz, Superouman, IronmanSC (now back), Sidianthebard, NullCurrent, iGrok, Barrin, and more very knowledgeable map makers. It appeared as if map making had been laid waste to.

Something interesting happened as a result. We re-organized ourselves and began working in a manner compliant with what I saw as the problems and solutions. We began setting the bar in terms of not only how we communicated, but propelled our relationships with small tournaments. I only had 1 true map under my belt at this point, a joint effort that I contribute much of the hard work to my team on helping me learn how to properly map (see: Bazaar). So I focused the majority of my efforts elsewhere. Working with tournaments gave me new interest, and I staved off desires to abandon ship. We had had a rocky start, but with the implementation of a website (no longer used), continuous improvement by my team mates in their quality, discussions with other map team leaders, and the development of a few key community events (i.e. development of sc2melee.net, discussion between MLG, lefix, and myself, and the culmination of community frustration about map pools) we strove on.

It is at this point that we found our stride. As we began communicating more and more trying to propel and change the way a map team approached the industry and its leaders to leverage not only our works but the works of our peers we began to see some success. We had a lot of help in this regard, and much of it came from non-DF map makers and other industry workers. However getting into that gets us into what I call our primer period.



Coming Soon to a blog near you: Origins: Dream Forge pt. 3 "Primer"

https://johnemerson.artstation.com/
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 160
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3467
Killer 289
Mind 86
Hyuk 78
Aegong 76
910 49
scan(afreeca) 48
Shinee 40
Dewaltoss 31
NotJumperer 17
[ Show more ]
ZergMaN 12
Bale 8
League of Legends
JimRising 582
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King440
Other Games
summit1g6942
ceh9550
C9.Mang0365
Happy243
monkeys_forever175
NeuroSwarm66
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick741
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream40
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 12
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1331
• TFBlade944
• Stunt504
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2h 12m
Afreeca Starleague
2h 12m
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3h 12m
SHIN vs Nicoract
Solar vs Nice
PiGosaur Cup
16h 12m
GSL
1d 1h
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
2 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
BSL
5 days
GSL
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-02
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.