• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:29
CEST 04:29
KST 11:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Has online-only competition during the pandemic changed your enjoyment of pro SC2? How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Remastered crash fix suggestions Syncronization issues and can't find games a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D The Casual Games of the Week Thread Small VOD Thread 2.0 BWCL Season 65 Announcement
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7045 users

Lowbies misinterpreting the score screen?

Blogs > Skotie
Post a Reply
Skotie
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States10 Posts
April 26 2013 03:57 GMT
#1
TL:DR Intro
+ Show Spoiler +

So the other night I stay up with my friend until about 7-8am (the price I pay for hanging out with people that work night shifts). As the night went on I ran low on streams/vods to put on in the background and I started up SC2 to mess around with some off-races against AI, mainly Protoss. So after a few beers and guessing at builds I slip up and end up playing against an actual person...

I'm a top 25-50 gold Zerg player (currently figuring out Protoss), this guy was a top 25 plat Zerg (playing random, but it ended up being Zerg). Friendly chat at the start... he had a few drinks in him, I was awake for about 20 hours, on paper being a league up he should crush me but we'll see what happens... nothing I'd consider even close to BM. I prep for what I'd do in the match up, 11 min roach push (shoutout to Tang!)... so I went for a FFE, get WAY too many gates (for some reason the old quote/reference from.. think it was TLO came to mind.. as Terran you can win games you probably shouldn't by having way too many barracks... so I made 12 gates), two robos, and made sure I would have 1/1 by the time he showed up. Around the 12 minute mark he knocks on my front door with a hand full of lings, about 20 roaches, and a hydra, ling speed being the only upgrade... I had about 14 blink stalkers, 2 immortals at 1/1 with all the gates ready to go and 2 more immortals being chrono'd... I won the fight, started for colossus and after no follow up attacks for a little bit I moved out, double expanded, and held the middle. That lead to me building up a stalker/immortal/colossi force, crushing another small push, then moving out and taking out his third and moving towards his second until he called GG.


After I stomped out the second push there were some Protoss is OP talk, and after the game he hit me up with a small rant of Protoss being imbalanced and that on the stats/graphs he felt he should have won or done better (for those that skipped the intro, nothing was BM or directed at me, more frustration at ZvP)... which I'm on the fence for agreeing.. he had more workers, income, and lower unspent resources and a higher APM, but I had higher upgrades and army value. After a bit I went to watch the replay... and spent about an hour or so breaking it down for my friend... I made my share of mistakes, but he made some rather large ones (mainly his drone count and saturation, and sticking with just roach/hydra for 90% of the game).

My real question/concern here would be about lower league (bronze-plat) players taking more from that stat screen and using that as a measurement of progress instead of actually watching their replays finding seeing their mistakes that don't show up on that summary page. Personally I think it's more important to me to get a strong grasp of things like using control groups, keeping an eye on the minimap, saturation habits (overall worker count, not necessarily 2 on each mineral patch... unless I have a spare second or two and notice it), builds and timings (not just how to do them, but the whys behind it), scouting (the act of doing it and what the look for)... then move on to things like when to expand and let expansions fall, specifics on unit composition and best use of individual unit, and starting on micro..... and after all THAT then worry about things like raising my APM. That's all things that I can't really check from that splash screen... really the most I use it for is to check my average unspent resources.

So what is everyone's thoughts on what people take from the score screen? Especially the lower league players!

Also.. forgot to grab the replay from my friend's computer, so once I get it I'll upload it if anyone wants take a look at it. And if Tang reads this.. I'm sorry for playing Toss >.>

Learning Zerg one larva at a time... it may be a while
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
April 26 2013 04:01 GMT
#2
I doubt that people that only mark improvement from the score screen would watch replays without the scoreen, so it's a nice way to show people how they're doing and marking some form of improvement without needing to go all hardcore-aka for casuals :D
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
April 26 2013 04:32 GMT
#3
One deficiency of the 'macro is everything' argument is that lowbies can throw away seemingly unlosable games by just being their fuck up selves.

If you are gold and plat, you are not complete players. You both have areas of strength and weakness. Your ladder rank is nothing more than a measurement of how those strengths and weaknesses interact with the general ladder population. It doesn't say much for how it will interact with a particular player, like yourself.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Shottaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom414 Posts
April 26 2013 07:42 GMT
#4
I'll never understand why anyone gives their rank in the league, eg top 25 Bronze. It doesn't mean a great deal because you can't easily compare between leagues anyway. That's a definite lowbie thing to do.

On topic When I was playing regularly in Masters if it was painfully obvious why I lost I would speed watch the replay. If I wasn't sure why I lost I would fully watch the rep.

The only reason I would really look at the graphs was if I smashed someone and that was only to bask in righteous glory of their downward graph lines.
Praise the sun! \o/
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
April 26 2013 08:07 GMT
#5
Always 4x watch never not 4x watch.

Make notes in notepad always and read them

Useless wet fish.
MasterCynical
Profile Joined September 2012
505 Posts
April 26 2013 08:55 GMT
#6
APM is probably one of the worst stats to measure your progress. its been proven many times that you can get to quite a high skill level with a low APM. Accurate clicks and commands with minimal spamming.
i.of.the.storm
Profile Joined April 2009
United States795 Posts
April 26 2013 09:40 GMT
#7
On April 26 2013 13:32 Jerubaal wrote:
One deficiency of the 'macro is everything' argument is that lowbies can throw away seemingly unlosable games by just being their fuck up selves.

If you are gold and plat, you are not complete players. You both have areas of strength and weakness. Your ladder rank is nothing more than a measurement of how those strengths and weaknesses interact with the general ladder population. It doesn't say much for how it will interact with a particular player, like yourself.


This entire post is so true, and applies to me completely (Plat random/Terran strongest). Especially when I play zerg, I can make a ton of crap and then engage really poorly and throw away massive supply leads. I need to work on not engaging in stupid situations and probably micro a bit, but I never have enough time. For me I quickly decided the post-game performance metrics were useless. I guess maybe if you're close to perfect you can use it to tell how often you get supply blocked and stuff but for someone like me my time supply blocked might be low because I forgot to make units for a minute or something.
Maru - The Terran hope is alive!
esReveR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States568 Posts
April 26 2013 10:31 GMT
#8
There are useful bits of information that can be pulled from the score screen, but you are correct in that most of the learning comes from watching replays and identifying areas of improvement in your own play. I have also noticed the lower leagues focusing on the wrong items for measures of their own improvement, as you suggested. People who truly can figure out how to analyze their own play are the ones that go from bronze to masters in a few months. The ones that don't tend to never break out of the lower leagues.
Skill is relative.
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
April 26 2013 10:56 GMT
#9
The score screen is very limited in what it can offer. It can for example, tell you that you were supply blocked for a minute during a 20 min game. It doesn't tell you when in the game that happened. Supply blocked at 170-ish food for 20s, 15 min into the game because you're fending off a drop or micro-ing is far more excusable and has less impact on your economy than being supply blocked for the same 20s at 18 supply because you forgot to build the 2nd overlord.

Of course the replay is better.
Formerly known as carbonaceous
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
ISSL Monthly #1 - Day 1
CranKy Ducklings132
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup #151
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 88
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5603
GuemChi 2506
Artosis 473
ViBE75
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm155
PGG 72
febbydoto26
Counter-Strike
taco 379
Other Games
summit1g9702
PiGStarcraft411
C9.Mang0335
WinterStarcraft204
XaKoH 200
Livibee142
Mew2King44
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1967
BasetradeTV0
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 68
• Letter144
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki28
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush697
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
8h 31m
herO vs SHIN
Percival vs ByuN
RotterdaM Event
13h 46m
Replay Cast
21h 31m
GSL
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
GSL
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.