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Active: 1248 users

Lowbies misinterpreting the score screen?

Blogs > Skotie
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Skotie
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States10 Posts
April 26 2013 03:57 GMT
#1
TL:DR Intro
+ Show Spoiler +

So the other night I stay up with my friend until about 7-8am (the price I pay for hanging out with people that work night shifts). As the night went on I ran low on streams/vods to put on in the background and I started up SC2 to mess around with some off-races against AI, mainly Protoss. So after a few beers and guessing at builds I slip up and end up playing against an actual person...

I'm a top 25-50 gold Zerg player (currently figuring out Protoss), this guy was a top 25 plat Zerg (playing random, but it ended up being Zerg). Friendly chat at the start... he had a few drinks in him, I was awake for about 20 hours, on paper being a league up he should crush me but we'll see what happens... nothing I'd consider even close to BM. I prep for what I'd do in the match up, 11 min roach push (shoutout to Tang!)... so I went for a FFE, get WAY too many gates (for some reason the old quote/reference from.. think it was TLO came to mind.. as Terran you can win games you probably shouldn't by having way too many barracks... so I made 12 gates), two robos, and made sure I would have 1/1 by the time he showed up. Around the 12 minute mark he knocks on my front door with a hand full of lings, about 20 roaches, and a hydra, ling speed being the only upgrade... I had about 14 blink stalkers, 2 immortals at 1/1 with all the gates ready to go and 2 more immortals being chrono'd... I won the fight, started for colossus and after no follow up attacks for a little bit I moved out, double expanded, and held the middle. That lead to me building up a stalker/immortal/colossi force, crushing another small push, then moving out and taking out his third and moving towards his second until he called GG.


After I stomped out the second push there were some Protoss is OP talk, and after the game he hit me up with a small rant of Protoss being imbalanced and that on the stats/graphs he felt he should have won or done better (for those that skipped the intro, nothing was BM or directed at me, more frustration at ZvP)... which I'm on the fence for agreeing.. he had more workers, income, and lower unspent resources and a higher APM, but I had higher upgrades and army value. After a bit I went to watch the replay... and spent about an hour or so breaking it down for my friend... I made my share of mistakes, but he made some rather large ones (mainly his drone count and saturation, and sticking with just roach/hydra for 90% of the game).

My real question/concern here would be about lower league (bronze-plat) players taking more from that stat screen and using that as a measurement of progress instead of actually watching their replays finding seeing their mistakes that don't show up on that summary page. Personally I think it's more important to me to get a strong grasp of things like using control groups, keeping an eye on the minimap, saturation habits (overall worker count, not necessarily 2 on each mineral patch... unless I have a spare second or two and notice it), builds and timings (not just how to do them, but the whys behind it), scouting (the act of doing it and what the look for)... then move on to things like when to expand and let expansions fall, specifics on unit composition and best use of individual unit, and starting on micro..... and after all THAT then worry about things like raising my APM. That's all things that I can't really check from that splash screen... really the most I use it for is to check my average unspent resources.

So what is everyone's thoughts on what people take from the score screen? Especially the lower league players!

Also.. forgot to grab the replay from my friend's computer, so once I get it I'll upload it if anyone wants take a look at it. And if Tang reads this.. I'm sorry for playing Toss >.>

Learning Zerg one larva at a time... it may be a while
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
April 26 2013 04:01 GMT
#2
I doubt that people that only mark improvement from the score screen would watch replays without the scoreen, so it's a nice way to show people how they're doing and marking some form of improvement without needing to go all hardcore-aka for casuals :D
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
April 26 2013 04:32 GMT
#3
One deficiency of the 'macro is everything' argument is that lowbies can throw away seemingly unlosable games by just being their fuck up selves.

If you are gold and plat, you are not complete players. You both have areas of strength and weakness. Your ladder rank is nothing more than a measurement of how those strengths and weaknesses interact with the general ladder population. It doesn't say much for how it will interact with a particular player, like yourself.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Shottaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom414 Posts
April 26 2013 07:42 GMT
#4
I'll never understand why anyone gives their rank in the league, eg top 25 Bronze. It doesn't mean a great deal because you can't easily compare between leagues anyway. That's a definite lowbie thing to do.

On topic When I was playing regularly in Masters if it was painfully obvious why I lost I would speed watch the replay. If I wasn't sure why I lost I would fully watch the rep.

The only reason I would really look at the graphs was if I smashed someone and that was only to bask in righteous glory of their downward graph lines.
Praise the sun! \o/
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
April 26 2013 08:07 GMT
#5
Always 4x watch never not 4x watch.

Make notes in notepad always and read them

Useless wet fish.
MasterCynical
Profile Joined September 2012
505 Posts
April 26 2013 08:55 GMT
#6
APM is probably one of the worst stats to measure your progress. its been proven many times that you can get to quite a high skill level with a low APM. Accurate clicks and commands with minimal spamming.
i.of.the.storm
Profile Joined April 2009
United States795 Posts
April 26 2013 09:40 GMT
#7
On April 26 2013 13:32 Jerubaal wrote:
One deficiency of the 'macro is everything' argument is that lowbies can throw away seemingly unlosable games by just being their fuck up selves.

If you are gold and plat, you are not complete players. You both have areas of strength and weakness. Your ladder rank is nothing more than a measurement of how those strengths and weaknesses interact with the general ladder population. It doesn't say much for how it will interact with a particular player, like yourself.


This entire post is so true, and applies to me completely (Plat random/Terran strongest). Especially when I play zerg, I can make a ton of crap and then engage really poorly and throw away massive supply leads. I need to work on not engaging in stupid situations and probably micro a bit, but I never have enough time. For me I quickly decided the post-game performance metrics were useless. I guess maybe if you're close to perfect you can use it to tell how often you get supply blocked and stuff but for someone like me my time supply blocked might be low because I forgot to make units for a minute or something.
Maru - The Terran hope is alive!
esReveR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
April 26 2013 10:31 GMT
#8
There are useful bits of information that can be pulled from the score screen, but you are correct in that most of the learning comes from watching replays and identifying areas of improvement in your own play. I have also noticed the lower leagues focusing on the wrong items for measures of their own improvement, as you suggested. People who truly can figure out how to analyze their own play are the ones that go from bronze to masters in a few months. The ones that don't tend to never break out of the lower leagues.
Skill is relative.
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
April 26 2013 10:56 GMT
#9
The score screen is very limited in what it can offer. It can for example, tell you that you were supply blocked for a minute during a 20 min game. It doesn't tell you when in the game that happened. Supply blocked at 170-ish food for 20s, 15 min into the game because you're fending off a drop or micro-ing is far more excusable and has less impact on your economy than being supply blocked for the same 20s at 18 supply because you forgot to build the 2nd overlord.

Of course the replay is better.
Formerly known as carbonaceous
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