• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:22
CEST 13:22
KST 20:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy0GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Korean words The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2318 users

Lowbies misinterpreting the score screen?

Blogs > Skotie
Post a Reply
Skotie
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States10 Posts
April 26 2013 03:57 GMT
#1
TL:DR Intro
+ Show Spoiler +

So the other night I stay up with my friend until about 7-8am (the price I pay for hanging out with people that work night shifts). As the night went on I ran low on streams/vods to put on in the background and I started up SC2 to mess around with some off-races against AI, mainly Protoss. So after a few beers and guessing at builds I slip up and end up playing against an actual person...

I'm a top 25-50 gold Zerg player (currently figuring out Protoss), this guy was a top 25 plat Zerg (playing random, but it ended up being Zerg). Friendly chat at the start... he had a few drinks in him, I was awake for about 20 hours, on paper being a league up he should crush me but we'll see what happens... nothing I'd consider even close to BM. I prep for what I'd do in the match up, 11 min roach push (shoutout to Tang!)... so I went for a FFE, get WAY too many gates (for some reason the old quote/reference from.. think it was TLO came to mind.. as Terran you can win games you probably shouldn't by having way too many barracks... so I made 12 gates), two robos, and made sure I would have 1/1 by the time he showed up. Around the 12 minute mark he knocks on my front door with a hand full of lings, about 20 roaches, and a hydra, ling speed being the only upgrade... I had about 14 blink stalkers, 2 immortals at 1/1 with all the gates ready to go and 2 more immortals being chrono'd... I won the fight, started for colossus and after no follow up attacks for a little bit I moved out, double expanded, and held the middle. That lead to me building up a stalker/immortal/colossi force, crushing another small push, then moving out and taking out his third and moving towards his second until he called GG.


After I stomped out the second push there were some Protoss is OP talk, and after the game he hit me up with a small rant of Protoss being imbalanced and that on the stats/graphs he felt he should have won or done better (for those that skipped the intro, nothing was BM or directed at me, more frustration at ZvP)... which I'm on the fence for agreeing.. he had more workers, income, and lower unspent resources and a higher APM, but I had higher upgrades and army value. After a bit I went to watch the replay... and spent about an hour or so breaking it down for my friend... I made my share of mistakes, but he made some rather large ones (mainly his drone count and saturation, and sticking with just roach/hydra for 90% of the game).

My real question/concern here would be about lower league (bronze-plat) players taking more from that stat screen and using that as a measurement of progress instead of actually watching their replays finding seeing their mistakes that don't show up on that summary page. Personally I think it's more important to me to get a strong grasp of things like using control groups, keeping an eye on the minimap, saturation habits (overall worker count, not necessarily 2 on each mineral patch... unless I have a spare second or two and notice it), builds and timings (not just how to do them, but the whys behind it), scouting (the act of doing it and what the look for)... then move on to things like when to expand and let expansions fall, specifics on unit composition and best use of individual unit, and starting on micro..... and after all THAT then worry about things like raising my APM. That's all things that I can't really check from that splash screen... really the most I use it for is to check my average unspent resources.

So what is everyone's thoughts on what people take from the score screen? Especially the lower league players!

Also.. forgot to grab the replay from my friend's computer, so once I get it I'll upload it if anyone wants take a look at it. And if Tang reads this.. I'm sorry for playing Toss >.>

Learning Zerg one larva at a time... it may be a while
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
April 26 2013 04:01 GMT
#2
I doubt that people that only mark improvement from the score screen would watch replays without the scoreen, so it's a nice way to show people how they're doing and marking some form of improvement without needing to go all hardcore-aka for casuals :D
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
April 26 2013 04:32 GMT
#3
One deficiency of the 'macro is everything' argument is that lowbies can throw away seemingly unlosable games by just being their fuck up selves.

If you are gold and plat, you are not complete players. You both have areas of strength and weakness. Your ladder rank is nothing more than a measurement of how those strengths and weaknesses interact with the general ladder population. It doesn't say much for how it will interact with a particular player, like yourself.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Shottaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom414 Posts
April 26 2013 07:42 GMT
#4
I'll never understand why anyone gives their rank in the league, eg top 25 Bronze. It doesn't mean a great deal because you can't easily compare between leagues anyway. That's a definite lowbie thing to do.

On topic When I was playing regularly in Masters if it was painfully obvious why I lost I would speed watch the replay. If I wasn't sure why I lost I would fully watch the rep.

The only reason I would really look at the graphs was if I smashed someone and that was only to bask in righteous glory of their downward graph lines.
Praise the sun! \o/
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
April 26 2013 08:07 GMT
#5
Always 4x watch never not 4x watch.

Make notes in notepad always and read them

Useless wet fish.
MasterCynical
Profile Joined September 2012
505 Posts
April 26 2013 08:55 GMT
#6
APM is probably one of the worst stats to measure your progress. its been proven many times that you can get to quite a high skill level with a low APM. Accurate clicks and commands with minimal spamming.
i.of.the.storm
Profile Joined April 2009
United States795 Posts
April 26 2013 09:40 GMT
#7
On April 26 2013 13:32 Jerubaal wrote:
One deficiency of the 'macro is everything' argument is that lowbies can throw away seemingly unlosable games by just being their fuck up selves.

If you are gold and plat, you are not complete players. You both have areas of strength and weakness. Your ladder rank is nothing more than a measurement of how those strengths and weaknesses interact with the general ladder population. It doesn't say much for how it will interact with a particular player, like yourself.


This entire post is so true, and applies to me completely (Plat random/Terran strongest). Especially when I play zerg, I can make a ton of crap and then engage really poorly and throw away massive supply leads. I need to work on not engaging in stupid situations and probably micro a bit, but I never have enough time. For me I quickly decided the post-game performance metrics were useless. I guess maybe if you're close to perfect you can use it to tell how often you get supply blocked and stuff but for someone like me my time supply blocked might be low because I forgot to make units for a minute or something.
Maru - The Terran hope is alive!
esReveR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
April 26 2013 10:31 GMT
#8
There are useful bits of information that can be pulled from the score screen, but you are correct in that most of the learning comes from watching replays and identifying areas of improvement in your own play. I have also noticed the lower leagues focusing on the wrong items for measures of their own improvement, as you suggested. People who truly can figure out how to analyze their own play are the ones that go from bronze to masters in a few months. The ones that don't tend to never break out of the lower leagues.
Skill is relative.
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
April 26 2013 10:56 GMT
#9
The score screen is very limited in what it can offer. It can for example, tell you that you were supply blocked for a minute during a 20 min game. It doesn't tell you when in the game that happened. Supply blocked at 170-ish food for 20s, 15 min into the game because you're fending off a drop or micro-ing is far more excusable and has less impact on your economy than being supply blocked for the same 20s at 18 supply because you forgot to build the 2nd overlord.

Of course the replay is better.
Formerly known as carbonaceous
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#4
RotterdaM243
TKL 148
Rex45
SteadfastSC39
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 3
CranKy Ducklings125
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 243
Lowko149
TKL 148
SortOf 138
ProTech111
Rex 45
SteadfastSC 39
Livibee 33
Codebar 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3951
Horang2 1171
Jaedong 867
Bisu 790
Shuttle 303
Hyuk 263
Aegong 233
actioN 204
Stork 194
Larva 176
[ Show more ]
Rush 149
Light 146
Pusan 138
Mini 124
Soma 123
Snow 121
EffOrt 117
Last 116
scan(afreeca) 104
Bale 100
Leta 88
PianO 74
910 64
ZerO 60
hero 49
Hyun 46
ggaemo 43
Shinee 36
ToSsGirL 34
Backho 30
sSak 29
Sharp 20
zelot 18
soO 16
Terrorterran 16
HiyA 15
SilentControl 12
Movie 11
Shine 11
Barracks 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
GoRush 7
Zeus 0
Dota 2
Gorgc1099
XaKoH 564
Counter-Strike
olofmeister3043
x6flipin314
edward71
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King153
Other Games
singsing1677
Liquid`RaSZi1001
B2W.Neo379
crisheroes329
Happy242
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL14961
Other Games
gamesdonequick615
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1465
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 38m
The PondCast
22h 38m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 12h
WardiTV Team League
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.