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I am going to make the possibly politically incorrect claim that attempted suicide is not the same as actual suicide. I see attempted suicide as more of a call for help and attention than an actual attempt to end one's life. If you wanted to commit suicide, there are a number of things you could do that would almost certainly be successful. A lot of people that "attempt suicide" do what Stage, Coleman, and many other do by slitting veins or OD'ing on pills. That's hardly a foolproof way to kill oneself and it seems to me attention seeking, although the article does mention Coleman going into a coma. Still, I think people like that comedian who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge definitely are legitimate survivors. I'm just of the opinion that people who take sleeping pills and then call an emergency number to get pumped are of a different type of illness.
So you say that suicidal people should get involved in these programs. I think this could be good, since they could get individualized attention which is likely what many of these suicide-contemplaters need. However, I think those contemplating "attempted suicide" should critically think about why they want to do so. If you feel lonely and forgotten in the eyes of others, I would recommend trying to do something -anything- productive to try to get positive attention. It might just be simple community service at a soup kitchen or church group (which are usually very accepting and won't care that much if you are not religious) that could improve your outlook on life.
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I agree that some may be attention seeking, but I don't think that people necessarily intended to live just because they failed. Overcoming your survival instinct is not an easy thing, and you must face chances of possible extreme pain, prolonged death, or surviving with brain damage and disfigurement. Even a point blank gunshot is not foolproof. I know at least one guy blew his face off and lived, by aiming a shotgun under his chin. I would suspect that many first time attempters fully believed that their wrist cutting or OD was going to work. I agree that people should be encouraged as much as possible to do good in their community. However, I think that the guilt imposed on people for thinking about suicide is a dangerous reinforcing cycle. It can be quite an unburdening to be allowed to speak, and to know others have thought the same thing, and are not horrible people for doing so.
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On April 14 2013 11:00 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:This can only be a good thing. Suicide is probably a natural thing to think about for higher life forms and as such should be discussed. I made a poll a while back on who in TL had thought about it. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=189356
Interesting... quite a high number it seems. It is very difficult to find anywhere to talk about those things. I hope people needn't suffer in silence as attitudes toward suicide become more constructive and less punishing.
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On April 14 2013 11:02 Chocolate wrote:
I am going to make the possibly politically incorrect claim that attempted suicide is not the same as actual suicide. I see attempted suicide as more of a call for help and attention than an actual attempt to end one's life. If you wanted to commit suicide, there are a number of things you could do that would almost certainly be successful. A lot of people that "attempt suicide" do what Stage, Coleman, and many other do by slitting veins or OD'ing on pills. That's hardly a foolproof way to kill oneself and it seems to me attention seeking, although the article does mention Coleman going into a coma. Still, I think people like that comedian who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge definitely are legitimate survivors. I'm just of the opinion that people who take sleeping pills and then call an emergency number to get pumped are of a different type of illness.
So you say that suicidal people should get involved in these programs. I think this could be good, since they could get individualized attention which is likely what many of these suicide-contemplaters need. However, I think those contemplating "attempted suicide" should critically think about why they want to do so. If you feel lonely and forgotten in the eyes of others, I would recommend trying to do something -anything- productive to try to get positive attention. It might just be simple community service at a soup kitchen or church group (which are usually very accepting and won't care that much if you are not religious) that could improve your outlook on life.
Your right and wrong, it depends entirely on the way they "attempt" suicide.
If somebody jumps off a 5 story building only to snap their neck and survive, i wouldnt call that a call for help.
However somebody crying on the phone saying "im going to kill myself, omg i just took 100 strong painkillers <quickly rushes to puke them up>" (Hi mum  ) then its a call for help imo.
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Not really. It's actually very easy to buy shotguns/ other lethal weapons, at least in the United States. You don't even need a background check, you just go to a gun show or convention and buy something. There are also trains everywhere, hanging is relatively simple, and you can make explosives with relatively common products.
Show nested quote +statistically you are much more likely to hurt yourself by attempting suicide than to succeed killing yourself So failed suicides are not always just a call for attention.
You can't logically make that assertion from that data. If self-harm like cutting wrists and OD'ing on random meds is considered attempted suicide, it will heavily skew data despite those two "methods" not being very lethal.
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On April 15 2013 04:23 Chocolate wrote:Not really. It's actually very easy to buy shotguns/ other lethal weapons, at least in the United States. You don't even need a background check, you just go to a gun show or convention and buy something. There are also trains everywhere, hanging is relatively simple, and you can make explosives with relatively common products. Show nested quote +statistically you are much more likely to hurt yourself by attempting suicide than to succeed killing yourself So failed suicides are not always just a call for attention. You can't logically make that assertion from that data. If self-harm like cutting wrists and OD'ing on random meds is considered attempted suicide, it will heavily skew data despite those two "methods" not being very lethal.
Slashing ones wrists is, in fact, very lethal; the issue is that the vast majority of people are unable or unwilling to cut their wrists in the proper way.
As to the topic of suicide, I think it is important to refrain from the commonplace "oh, how selfish" declarations; to feel the need to cheapen someone else's struggle through oversimplification is far more selfish than despair. This is one of the places in life where we must remember that no two perspectives are exactly alike, and to rightfully judge the actions of another is to do so with a deep and thorough understanding of their person.
On a very simple level, one way we can all fight suicide and depression is to try and smile at others as we walk about in public. While you might face some occasional resistance, a random smile from a stranger can sometimes be the difference between life and death.
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EPT
