edit: tldr; I have two train of thoughts: one is emotional, the other is rational. Rational thought deters me from acting out my negative emotions, but even when acknowledged; I can't take advantage of my rational thoughts to curb or remove insecurities or these negative emotional thoughts from affecting me (even when I see the personal fault or irrationality of them - stemming from my personal insecurity and lack of self-confidence). Why? Why is this third-perspective outlook of myself and the situation not enough to reason with the irrationality of negative emotions (but enough to foresee unfortunate consequences if I act them out on others in public)?
I've been watching a lot of Curb your Enthusiasm. For the socially inept such as myself, I can't help but laugh at how easily I succumb to the notions of social norms that Larry David tries to betray and arrogantly dismiss for his own views. I always find myself agreeing with him despite being very similar to the more "normal" characters on the show.
For the past few months, I've been toying around the thought (or meta-thought) of how my emotional reactions, even when restrained, can't help but ignore the logical and rational side I can easily deduce. I couldn't find a recent example until many Dota games where I found myself irrationally disliking almost immediately any Brazilian or Russian I played with. No matter how well or poor they did, from the start, I immediately am in a foul mood and dismiss everything they do.
On the one hand, I realize that assuming all Brazilian's or Russians are bad is ignoring the obvious truth that they are actually on the same level as me (or around) and that hating them or blaming them for all my losses immediately dismisses the fact that there are just as many shitty Brazillians and Russians as there are ignorant non-communicative North-Americans. We're speaking about a strong likelihood of this viewpoint.
On the other hand, there's been a huge stack of personal experiences since DotA All-Stars and Heroes of Newerth that anytime I encounter a Brazilian, I feel the need to "teach them a lesson" by picking Meepo and hopefully deterring their interest in ever playing in a US East/West server again.
Stupid, thoughtless and counter-productive.
On a more serious note, I find myself able to distinguish two train of thoughts in many cases of my day. It usually revolves around the branching of an insecure thoughts where communications go poor or someone acts outside the acceptable range of responses I had expected when I planned to encounter them. There will always be a reactive response in me that I want to impulsively state. Then later, upon reflection, I'll be able to break down the whole series of conversation and gestures and list up reasonings and potential possibilities for why things occurred the way they did/do. It's obviously a form of comfort and reassurance as well as to lessen the strength of how my emotions can affect me.
And yet: despite all forms of reasonings and rational thought; I still feel the residue of spite and hate towards that person. A strong resentment, no matter how small or minor the issue was (or even misinterpreted purely by me).
I'll acknowledge the rational line of thought, but can't accept it as enough to therapeutically move on from any small bout of discouragement or anger.
When I worked at an art store, i learned a very important lesson. The difference between anime fans, nerds, and kids.
"Anime Fans generally have a favourite type of anime and will watch that type for the most part, very rarely switching it up. They will talk about it with their other friends, however, if they do not mention it you would have NO FRIGGIN IDEA.
Anime Nerds for the most part, will watch anything that is suggested to them, and discuss it as functioning human beings. Nerds may cosplay at various conventions and the like, but it is contained to said conventions. You may also notice subtle hints that they are a nerd, like a watch or a wallet from a specific anime, so you can tell they enjoy it without being overwhelmed by it.
Now, anime 'kids' are the non-functioning fucking retarded anime fans that seem to travel in packs that have a collective IQ of 7. You can tell an anime kid is an anime kid from miles away, as they're usually the one rocking a naruto headband and random ass cosplay EVERY. DAMN. DAY. They generally cannot form thoughts that aren't anime related, believe themselves to be in actual loving relationships with anime characters, and are more or less pathetic excuses of people. They will constantly talk in Japanese to prove how 'smart' they are LIKE OMGTHATSSOKAWAIIDESUNE!!?!?! fuck off. The majority of anime kids are are combination of fat, terrible looking, unfortunate looking, smelly or so fucking awkward it makes your heart die a little just to see them. They're the ones that when you see walk into an art store (like I used to work) or anywhere else that sells manga/supplies you RUN LIKE THE WIND BULLSEYE and get the fuck out before they wrangle you and try to convince you that anime is life; there is no other way to live, and that they're SUCH A GOOD ARTIST, THEY DRAW EVERY DAY. LOOK AT MY ORIGINAL CHARACTER. oh yes. i see. that's great. i like your unibrow. step away from me.
tl;dr version: anime fans are fine, anime nerds are fine, anime kids are the scum of the earth. true story.
I can relate to this sort of need to flee from these sorts of people. In fact, I, myself, would be embarrassed to be associated with these kinds of people (I haven't watched Anime in so many years, but even then; I don't think I could be as enthused as these types of people).
and yet; I also understand that they're enthused, proud and excited fans of a particular form of story-telling and art. Why am I ashamed of these kinds of people if I can acknowledge the rational thought (that I created and conjured in my mind, on my own, through my own limits of understanding)? It's not what I like, but it is something I can systematically excuse through reasoning.
I mean, the next answer would be that emotions are not necessarily attached to rational thought and then we can talk about emotional intelligence (let's ignore trait and ability for now).
I think I might just stop here before I really go down the rabbit hole of emotional intelligence. But it's been prodding me about how I want to accept and integrate rational thought and have it influence emotional impulsion to act on what I am feeling or towards who.
I guess the rational thought that restrains me is the acknowledgement of consequence. But if that's true. Why can I not use rational thought to soothe or even suppress personal distraught, even when seeing the flawed insecurity that is the foundation of my negative emotions and worry
I feel like I'm missing something obvious here and this is all pseudo-psychoanalytical crap from 23-year olds immature mind. Bedtime for this boy regardless.
edit: if it doesn't make sense. Please tell me and I'll try and articulate it better.
Eh, nothing wrong with a little insight into 'oneself'.. Derrr
The reason you can't is because we have something called self image. You perceive yourself in a certain light, however find yourself behaving differently to how you see yourself. As a result your brain goes into denial when you behave in a way that contradicts with your self image.
Basically, get over yourself because being an asshole to dumb Russians does not make you an asshole in life.
Rational thought does not resolve emotional discomfort. Sometimes you need to accept those feelings and stop trying to rationalize why you feel that way (understanding why you feel a certain way is just as important as experiencing the feeling itself). Either way, this isn't the source of your discomfort.
As mentioned before, you just have a slight misjudgment of yourself and failing to accept certain traits leave you in a loop. If you don't like these traits, then aim to improve them.
Well, the hardest thing for humans is to overcome their predefined genetic patterns. The human brain is the only thing we know of, that is capable of stepping above genetics, by thinking. That doesn't mean it's easy. There is a reason why you have the urge to not want to associate with people you think are inferior, due to whatever features they possess. It's what your genetic code "tells" you to do, but afterwards, your brain thinks about it and a different choice might be made. The basic urge doesn't go away though.
EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
On March 31 2013 17:01 Torte de Lini wrote: I feel like I'm missing something obvious here and this is all pseudo-psychoanalytical crap from 23-year olds immature mind. Bedtime for this boy regardless.
edit: if it doesn't make sense. Please tell me and I'll try and articulate it better.
you're 23 rly? I always thought you were something like 18-19 don't know whyXD on second thought i was thinking that 2 years ago so nvm,i don't know what im doing here anyway where's the door
The quest for trying to understand oneself is not a pseudo-analysis, but rather one of the most real things one can do (known as "know thyself").
I hope that we don't have to question the validity of questioning ourselves and our actions (in this thread). That's the hurdle we usually face from society: if we question ourselves, then they have to question themselves and everyone has to question everything. It's much better simply be confident that you understand logic and are therefore logical. However, when we do that, we are ignoring our personal responsibility.
The basic point brought up in the OP is simply an observation common to all human beings. There are many systems which describe this problem of "why".
The flaw in logic and philosophy is that it assumes a singular "I". We never assume a compound "I", a complex "I" made of many parts, layers, components, etc. It's always just simply a single "I" on the inside and the rest of the world distinctly on the outside. This is an incorrect view.
Here's what the structure of a person is in the eastern view:
As you can see, our thoughts are actually at the very last stage for determining what we actually do. Our emotions control our thoughts which are in turn determined by desires. Our deep impressions generally seem to be the primary hidden driver for our desires. Maybe those are things we experience as small children? Perhaps shocking or traumatic events?
But the ability to recognize this process is exactly the way one can become more objective about the world. This is self-observation. It's pretty difficult here to explain all the details of self-observation; there are many ways to approach it. I could talk about things from self-remembering to abductive reasoning, for example. However, I'll leave you with this which takes a different angle from those and describes (in the first half of the video I believe) some processes that occur which causes the observations in the OP. But again, there are completely different ways to approach this as well.
TDL, I believe you are a slightly more evolved human than most of us at this point. You represent the next evolution for us, just as certain people around 1600 started using reason and represented what has led us to where we are today. Oddly, it appears you are less evolved because you are behaving irrationally. However, we all do this. What makes you more evolved is that you were able to observe this fact. Your cognitive functioning has actually changed and you've become more self-aware. Read my thesis to learn more.
Anyway, I've given you about half a dozen rabbit holes to explore to help answer your questions. I hope one of them is helpful to you.
That's because the conscious part of your brain cannot be aware of the computing that's being done in the subconcious, so it has the illusion it's in charge ^^
On March 31 2013 17:25 LuckyFool wrote: Wow TDL what a strange coincidence that I've been reading, thinking and writing my own blog on topics similar to this.
crazy.
... Just wrote a blog about a pretty similar topic also.
Essentially my response to you TDL is that you have to remember that human beings are real rational thinking things also. They are actually making decisions based upon their environment, and the way that is affecting the chemicals in their brains. They have the same problems you have with trying to understand the world, and deal with those chemicals inside them that make them feel really, really shit sometimes, but also have a slightly addictive quality.
Part of me wants to say that you over-value reason. Reason is a tool for gathering information but that does not mean that it will always be able to control the other parts of the psyche (like Plato calls them desire and appetite). I also read in "the way of zen" by alan watts that and this is a big time paraphrase "reason tries to control the entire brain, even though it is just one tool made by the brain itself" (should have looked up the actual quotation. i will if someone wants)
The psychiatrist in me wants to suggest you might have a complex. A complex is a sort of "knot" of the psyche. When things become related in the mind in a way that is irrational, it can cause problems. For instance, i have had some awful hangovers where i feel disgusting all day. I still drink water to try to help. Then next time i feel a hangover and see a cup of water next to my bed i am reminded of how awful i felt and don't want to drink the water even though i am over heating and know it will taste amazing!
I think complexes are a result of having a world view that is too simplified for how your emotions really are. You think all russians and brazilians have something in common. True, their might be aspects of there may be cultural and lineage related similarities but the more reasonable perspective IMO is that they are individual homosapiens on the same planet in the same time as you..
On March 31 2013 22:58 Japhybaby wrote: Part of me wants to say that you over-value reason. Reason is a tool for gathering information but that does not mean that it will always be able to control the other parts of the psyche (like Plato calls them desire and appetite). I also read in "the way of zen" by alan watts that and this is a big time paraphrase "reason tries to control the entire brain, even though it is just one tool made by the brain itself" (should have looked up the actual quotation. i will if someone wants)
The psychiatrist in me wants to suggest you might have a complex. A complex is a sort of "knot" of the psyche. When things become related in the mind in a way that is irrational, it can cause problems. For instance, i have had some awful hangovers where i feel disgusting all day. I still drink water to try to help. Then next time i feel a hangover and see a cup of water next to my bed i am reminded of how awful i felt and don't want to drink the water even though i am over heating and know it will taste amazing!
I think complexes are a result of having a world view that is too simplified for how your emotions really are. You think all russians and brazilians have something in common. True, their might be aspects of there may be cultural and lineage related similarities but the more reasonable perspective IMO is that they are individual homosapiens on the same planet in the same time as you..
You can never over-value reason, but maybe you meant overestimate reason?
On March 31 2013 18:35 wei2coolman wrote: EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
On March 31 2013 17:25 LuckyFool wrote: Wow TDL what a strange coincidence that I've been reading, thinking and writing my own blog on topics similar to this.
crazy.
Welcome to the Breakfast Club :D
On March 31 2013 22:28 Saechiis wrote: That's because the conscious part of your brain cannot be aware of the computing that's being done in the subconcious, so it has the illusion it's in charge ^^
I didn't think of this, but even if it's in my subconscious, wouldn't I be unable to depict why I am feeling the way I feel and thus be able to influence it through rational thought?
On March 31 2013 20:01 fight_or_flight wrote: The quest for trying to understand oneself is not a pseudo-analysis, but rather one of the most real things one can do (known as "know thyself").
I hope that we don't have to question the validity of questioning ourselves and our actions (in this thread). That's the hurdle we usually face from society: if we question ourselves, then they have to question themselves and everyone has to question everything. It's much better simply be confident that you understand logic and are therefore logical. However, when we do that, we are ignoring our personal responsibility.
The basic point brought up in the OP is simply an observation common to all human beings. There are many systems which describe this problem of "why".
The flaw in logic and philosophy is that it assumes a singular "I". We never assume a compound "I", a complex "I" made of many parts, layers, components, etc. It's always just simply a single "I" on the inside and the rest of the world distinctly on the outside. This is an incorrect view.
Here's what the structure of a person is in the eastern view:
As you can see, our thoughts are actually at the very last stage for determining what we actually do. Our emotions control our thoughts which are in turn determined by desires. Our deep impressions generally seem to be the primary hidden driver for our desires. Maybe those are things we experience as small children? Perhaps shocking or traumatic events?
But the ability to recognize this process is exactly the way one can become more objective about the world. This is self-observation. It's pretty difficult here to explain all the details of self-observation; there are many ways to approach it. I could talk about things from self-remembering to abductive reasoning, for example. However, I'll leave you with this which takes a different angle from those and describes (in the first half of the video I believe) some processes that occur which causes the observations in the OP. But again, there are completely different ways to approach this as well.
TDL, I believe you are a slightly more evolved human than most of us at this point. You represent the next evolution for us, just as certain people around 1600 started using reason and represented what has led us to where we are today. Oddly, it appears you are less evolved because you are behaving irrationally. However, we all do this. What makes you more evolved is that you were able to observe this fact. Your cognitive functioning has actually changed and you've become more self-aware. Read my thesis to learn more.
Anyway, I've given you about half a dozen rabbit holes to explore to help answer your questions. I hope one of them is helpful to you.
I get this and I get that the ability to see ourself from the outside is a sign of detached objectivity. I just don't see how I can branch two systems of thoughts, root them with causal thoughts (why do I feel this way, what are the reasons x/y person said a/b thing to affect c/d part of me). I just don't understand why the acknowledgement and detection of being able to determine this and the rational thought to my emotions does not influence it positively?
On March 31 2013 18:35 wei2coolman wrote: EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
Obviously this is inaccurate lol
Inaccurate obviously, but incorrect? Surely not. If you associate yourself with a group you find weak, you'll be seen as a weakling by others too, because in your eyes, what you think is good should also be what others think is good, thus putting you at a social disadvantage and inferior status.
On March 31 2013 22:58 Japhybaby wrote: Part of me wants to say that you over-value reason. Reason is a tool for gathering information but that does not mean that it will always be able to control the other parts of the psyche (like Plato calls them desire and appetite). I also read in "the way of zen" by alan watts that and this is a big time paraphrase "reason tries to control the entire brain, even though it is just one tool made by the brain itself" (should have looked up the actual quotation. i will if someone wants)
The psychiatrist in me wants to suggest you might have a complex. A complex is a sort of "knot" of the psyche. When things become related in the mind in a way that is irrational, it can cause problems. For instance, i have had some awful hangovers where i feel disgusting all day. I still drink water to try to help. Then next time i feel a hangover and see a cup of water next to my bed i am reminded of how awful i felt and don't want to drink the water even though i am over heating and know it will taste amazing!
I think complexes are a result of having a world view that is too simplified for how your emotions really are. You think all russians and brazilians have something in common. True, their might be aspects of there may be cultural and lineage related similarities but the more reasonable perspective IMO is that they are individual homosapiens on the same planet in the same time as you..
You can never over-value reason, but maybe you meant overestimate reason?
You had me questioning myself but i mean both actually. You can overestimate how susceptible you are to reason. You can say to yourself "yes i am able to not have a smoke because it will hurt my lungs and reasonably i'd like to live a healthier life." but then you get a craving and there are cigarettes around. Appetite and circumstance win over for a lot of people,
Then theres over-valuing. You can always try to make events reasonable and destroy their fun. "oh ya i like to play starcraft because its fun and because it helps me think faster."For me, my sense of reason always wants to explain my behaviour with reason. I'm looking at a sunset because its beautiful! but if i was actually just enjoying the sunset and not thinking about why i am doing it, perhaps i will be more overcome by the beauty of it (but that was reasont here )
On March 31 2013 18:35 wei2coolman wrote: EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
Obviously this is inaccurate lol
Inaccurate obviously, but incorrect? Surely not. If you associate yourself with a group you find weak, you'll be seen as a weakling by others too, because in your eyes, what you think is good should also be what others think is good, thus putting you at a social disadvantage and inferior status.
It's inaccurate, because it doesn't account for the circumstances of where I am and how that person judges me (I'm in a relationship currently).
Even if I wasn't, what makes you say that I prioritize having sex as an important value or trait. Furthermore, if I can determine why these anime kids are so enthused in a positive light that makes sense on a personal level, why would I feel ashamed and embarrassed for them: especially when I can see it's rather common amongst many people across the world (hence conventions).
It's inaccurate because it blurs some things personal about myself and my ability to accept various perceptions of groups of kids.
Not sure if it's incorrect because I obviously think lower of them when I encounter them and thinking about them now makes me uncomfortable.
On March 31 2013 17:25 LuckyFool wrote: Wow TDL what a strange coincidence that I've been reading, thinking and writing my own blog on topics similar to this.
crazy.
... Just wrote a blog about a pretty similar topic also.
Essentially my response to you TDL is that you have to remember that human beings are real rational thinking things also. They are actually making decisions based upon their environment, and the way that is affecting the chemicals in their brains. They have the same problems you have with trying to understand the world, and deal with those chemicals inside them that make them feel really, really shit sometimes, but also have a slightly addictive quality.
I mean, the cognitive behavioral idea of rational thought and cycle of logic as we accept environmental influences has been longed talked about.
Which kid of interests me on how we can rely on therapists to give rational thought and consideration into determining self-problems, yet: we can't do that on our own (at least I can't, on a certain extent right now). Is it because the therapist has an authority and expertise in a field I trust or simply I'm applying a poor method (I know there are psychological trap-thinkings such as Black-and-white thing, etc.).
Read a book about cognitive therapy when I was a kid, but I hardly doubt that makes me an expert, but I would also think I can still apply what I know to avoid being hurt.
On March 31 2013 18:35 wei2coolman wrote: EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
Obviously this is inaccurate lol
Inaccurate obviously, but incorrect? Surely not. If you associate yourself with a group you find weak, you'll be seen as a weakling by others too, because in your eyes, what you think is good should also be what others think is good, thus putting you at a social disadvantage and inferior status.
It's inaccurate, because it doesn't account for the circumstances of where I am and how that person judges me (I'm in a relationship currently).
Even if I wasn't, what makes you say that I prioritize having sex as an important value or trait. Furthermore, if I can determine why these anime kids are so enthused in a positive light that makes sense on a personal level, why would I feel ashamed and embarrassed for them: especially when I can see it's rather common amongst many people across the world (hence conventions).
It's inaccurate because it blurs some things personal about myself and my ability to accept various perceptions of groups of kids.
It doesn't really matter what state you are in (relationship or not) and sex might not be the prime reason, but merely a logical follow up. It's more likely driven by your genetics to survive and survival in a weak group is much more likely to fail, than survival in a strong group.
Of course, your personal thoughts and who you are are there and it's valid to wonder about the inability to overcome instinct, but I would be surprised if you could just think away your genetic code in a heartbeat, which has evolved over millions and millions of years for the sole purpose of survival. It's more than just a fight against it, because you are actively going against the things that have worked for life since forever. If that was an easy task, we probably wouldn't be here anymore :-)
On March 31 2013 18:35 wei2coolman wrote: EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
Obviously this is inaccurate lol
Inaccurate obviously, but incorrect? Surely not. If you associate yourself with a group you find weak, you'll be seen as a weakling by others too, because in your eyes, what you think is good should also be what others think is good, thus putting you at a social disadvantage and inferior status.
It's inaccurate, because it doesn't account for the circumstances of where I am and how that person judges me (I'm in a relationship currently).
Even if I wasn't, what makes you say that I prioritize having sex as an important value or trait. Furthermore, if I can determine why these anime kids are so enthused in a positive light that makes sense on a personal level, why would I feel ashamed and embarrassed for them: especially when I can see it's rather common amongst many people across the world (hence conventions).
It's inaccurate because it blurs some things personal about myself and my ability to accept various perceptions of groups of kids.
It doesn't really matter what state you are in (relationship or not) and sex might not be the prime reason, but merely a logical follow up. It's more likely driven by your genetics to survive and survival in a weak group is much more likely to fail, than survival in a strong group.
Of course, your personal thoughts and who you are are there and it's valid to wonder about the inability to overcome instinct, but I would be surprised if you could just think away your genetic code in a heartbeat, which has evolved over millions and millions of years for the sole purpose of survival. It's more than just a fight against it, because you are actively going against the things that have worked for life since forever. If that was an easy task, we probably wouldn't be here anymore :-)
I believe in genetics, I just don't believe it has that much of an influence from a day-to-day activity, nor really any decision-making control when I'm filtering people (even on an unconscious level).
I think saying it is genetic is just the scientific dismissal of answers to all unknowable questions.
Just feels cheap saying it is genetic when it comes to social filtering.
On March 31 2013 18:35 wei2coolman wrote: EZ asnwer. because your chances of having sex drop when hanging out with anime kids. so naturally your babymaking sub-conscious wants you to have highest chance of sexual reproduction, and hanging out with an socially alienating group lowers your chances.
Obviously this is inaccurate lol
Inaccurate obviously, but incorrect? Surely not. If you associate yourself with a group you find weak, you'll be seen as a weakling by others too, because in your eyes, what you think is good should also be what others think is good, thus putting you at a social disadvantage and inferior status.
It's inaccurate, because it doesn't account for the circumstances of where I am and how that person judges me (I'm in a relationship currently).
Even if I wasn't, what makes you say that I prioritize having sex as an important value or trait. Furthermore, if I can determine why these anime kids are so enthused in a positive light that makes sense on a personal level, why would I feel ashamed and embarrassed for them: especially when I can see it's rather common amongst many people across the world (hence conventions).
It's inaccurate because it blurs some things personal about myself and my ability to accept various perceptions of groups of kids.
It doesn't really matter what state you are in (relationship or not) and sex might not be the prime reason, but merely a logical follow up. It's more likely driven by your genetics to survive and survival in a weak group is much more likely to fail, than survival in a strong group.
Of course, your personal thoughts and who you are are there and it's valid to wonder about the inability to overcome instinct, but I would be surprised if you could just think away your genetic code in a heartbeat, which has evolved over millions and millions of years for the sole purpose of survival. It's more than just a fight against it, because you are actively going against the things that have worked for life since forever. If that was an easy task, we probably wouldn't be here anymore :-)
I believe in genetics, I just don't believe it has that much of an influence from a day-to-day activity, nor really any decision-making control when I'm filtering people (even on an unconscious level).
I think saying it is genetic is just the scientific dismissal of answers to all unknowable questions.
Just feels cheap saying it is genetic when it comes to social filtering.
I am of course no scientist, but such behaviour can be scientifically proven to have it's origin in your genetics (maybe something can be found about it on the interwebz), then it doesn't matter what we believe or would like to believe. After all, genetics influence other parts of our lives as well. I think it is perfectly plausible, that it influences your day-to-day activity, when choosing to associate with people (or not associate with them).
I see what you mean though, as it would be kind of sad, that we are unable to use our brains for going further. Where I disagree though is that this belongs to the "unknowable questions". I do not see how this is the case.
EPT
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