• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:08
CEST 05:08
KST 12:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202578RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder0EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 558 users

Progaming no more - Page 9

Blogs > aTnClouD
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 13 Next All
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
March 18 2013 17:36 GMT
#161
On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.


SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them.

Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.



On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.

i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?


His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.


Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is.

Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.


Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 17:37:23
March 18 2013 17:36 GMT
#162
On March 19 2013 02:24 Grovbolle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 01:10 thezanursic wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.

You are talking to one of the best foreigners... /facepalm

As he said he isn't enjoying the game and when you dislike a game that you are supposed to be the best and improve at it's kind of hard to do it...

it would be nice if people actually read the blogs before posting...

I would call that a bit over an exaggeration, ClouD was good, as good as a lot of foreigners, but he was hardly one of the best foreigners. Maybe he was in BW (I'm not that much of a hipster), but not in SC2. Maybe he could have been with passion, but we will never know.

no, he wasn't top foreign in BW either and by a long shot lol
SoniC_eu
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark1008 Posts
March 18 2013 17:51 GMT
#163
<3 GL to you Cloud my friend!
In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure. http://da.twitch.tv/sonic_eu
Necca
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany43 Posts
March 18 2013 17:55 GMT
#164
On March 18 2013 20:33 NexCa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 20:06 Inori wrote:
So, you retire exactly one month after you say that most of the protoss are clueless, including Huk and Mana, telling fans that disagree that they're nobody?

Nice timing!


exactly my thoughts.

I don't care if he's gone or not, he kept sayin that these are bad players with bad mechanics, but loosing to GoOdy over and over again just shows me that he has in fact no clue what he was talking about. I bet Korean Pros would laugh at his mechanics when they see him playing StarCraft BW / StarCraft 2.
ClouD never achieved anything big or even constantly winning anything, sorry ClouD, you're not a loss for me or atleast in my eyes for the community.

Show nested quote +
"I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it."

This attitude you have is what always annoyed me about you, because you always showed exactly the opposite. Sure, you believe if you only put more dedication, you'd have show it, but IMO you're deluded and the sooner you understand the better for you.


Exactly


But for your real life, keep on fighting like you did in your Broodwar days. That's pretty much all I've to say


couldnt agree more. He was always bad and now he writes shit like this? I laughed hard.

I could be an fighter-pilot and physics professor if I would put more dedication into it....

Bye. Took you quite long to recognize that youre not very good at this game.
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 19:01:53
March 18 2013 17:58 GMT
#165
--- Nuked ---
vinsang1000
Profile Joined January 2012
Belgium365 Posts
March 18 2013 18:08 GMT
#166
Ah, reading your blog, I feel the same as watching your BW games vs your SC2's.
Passion was there and, be proud of it, you realize it as a BW champion. Thanks for all these great games.

Good luck for the future, I'm sure you'll find passion in many other topics.
Savant.GL
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany502 Posts
March 18 2013 18:10 GMT
#167
I am slightly confused.

You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS

So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.

Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision.
Savant
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33387 Posts
March 18 2013 18:10 GMT
#168
too bad you're quitting pro-gaming, but now there's more time for WRITING
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Mystes
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany42 Posts
March 18 2013 18:18 GMT
#169
gl hf

i know a person as smart and dedicated as you will make it far
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
March 18 2013 18:27 GMT
#170
On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.

You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS

So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.

Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision.

My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
HardlyNever
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1258 Posts
March 18 2013 18:28 GMT
#171
On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.


SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them.

Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.



On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.

i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?


His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.


Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is.

Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.


Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.


On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider.


Did you read the OP?
Out there, the Kid learned to fend for himself. Learned to build. Learned to break.
striderxxx
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada443 Posts
March 18 2013 18:58 GMT
#172
I've only heard of Cloud before, but have no idea what he looks or know much about him as he either didn't participate in MLG tournaments or was just not good enough to get air time to be seen.
MauiMallard
Profile Joined January 2011
United States53 Posts
March 18 2013 19:06 GMT
#173
Catch you on the flipside.
McKay want's to take it? TELL MCKAY TO GO FUCK HIMSELF
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
March 18 2013 19:32 GMT
#174
On March 19 2013 03:28 HardlyNever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.


SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them.

Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.



On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.

i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?


His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.


Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is.

Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.


Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.


Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider.


Did you read the OP?


Let me just bold something for you:
On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
It's a way easier game than Starcraft


Oh look, he doesn't say it's easy, he says it's easier than Starcraft:BW. I can list a whole bunch of games that are easier than Starcraft that are still hard games.
If I say that someone is a worse Zerg player than Life that doesn't mean I think they're a terrible Zerg player, same thing holds true here.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
March 18 2013 19:33 GMT
#175
GL. Hope you keep blogging still.
HardlyNever
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1258 Posts
March 18 2013 19:44 GMT
#176
On March 19 2013 04:32 Targe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 03:28 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.


SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them.

Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.



On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.

i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?


His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.


Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is.

Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.


Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.


On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider.


Did you read the OP?


Let me just bold something for you:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
It's a way easier game than Starcraft


Oh look, he doesn't say it's easy, he says it's easier than Starcraft:BW. I can list a whole bunch of games that are easier than Starcraft that are still hard games.
If I say that someone is a worse Zerg player than Life that doesn't mean I think they're a terrible Zerg player, same thing holds true here.


He's saying it is easy.

And the luck part? You know, where he says luck is a "huge" factor?
Out there, the Kid learned to fend for himself. Learned to build. Learned to break.
gamerdude12345
Profile Joined August 2011
Korea (South)378 Posts
March 18 2013 19:50 GMT
#177
"I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it, but what kept me from doing so in Starcraft2 was the fact I don't enjoy playing this game at all."

So the only reason you aren't the best foreigner is because you hate sc2?
'One does not simply walk into Mordor"
Protoss-Bah
Profile Joined October 2011
74 Posts
March 18 2013 19:51 GMT
#178
Good long term decision.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
March 18 2013 19:52 GMT
#179
On March 19 2013 04:44 HardlyNever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 04:32 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 03:28 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:
On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.


SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them.

Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.



On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:
On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:
On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.

If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.


I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.

Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.

i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?


His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.


Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is.

Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.


Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.


On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider.


Did you read the OP?


Let me just bold something for you:
On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
It's a way easier game than Starcraft


Oh look, he doesn't say it's easy, he says it's easier than Starcraft:BW. I can list a whole bunch of games that are easier than Starcraft that are still hard games.
If I say that someone is a worse Zerg player than Life that doesn't mean I think they're a terrible Zerg player, same thing holds true here.


He's saying it is easy.

And the luck part? You know, where he says luck is a "huge" factor?


You can't just say he's saying it's easy, he's saying it's easier than Starcraft.
Luck I believe would be him complaining how compared to Starcraft where it was very hard for a worse player to win, it's easier in SC2.
I'm not going to reply after this post, I'm only trying to point out how people are exaggeration/mis-understanding the op. Some people it seems are determined to hate ClouD, whatever.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
scDeluX
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada1341 Posts
March 18 2013 20:06 GMT
#180
I will remember you from your BW days.

GL in poker ! Tough world to venture into, especially if you stay in Italy.
Brood War is forever
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 252
RuFF_SC2 168
ProTech53
Ketroc 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4336
NaDa 73
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever912
League of Legends
JimRising 869
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2151
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox3815
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor165
Other Games
summit1g15340
tarik_tv8971
Maynarde204
ROOTCatZ169
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1790
BasetradeTV179
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta85
• gosughost_ 7
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift6712
• Rush1215
• Lourlo528
Other Games
• Scarra2094
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
7h 52m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 6h
WardiTV European League
1d 12h
Online Event
1d 14h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.