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Even though right now is the weirdest time to do something like this I decided I will quit being a progamer and leave eSports and gaming alltogether. This might sound weird to some people since I've been playing really well towards the end of Wings of Liberty and HotS looks like a more balanced and fun game to play. It means much to take such a big decision and even though I'm really busy at the moment I feel I owe the amazing TeamLiquid community an explaination and a final thread.
I started playing online 10 years ago. My first competitive game was Warcraft 3, I started playing it during a really tough moment of my life and this made me embrace the game and the competition with a strong passion. I played for three months and within that short period I became one of the best players of my own country. Even though Warcraft 3 was a new game I found out that this older game, Starcraft, thrilled me way too much, and I couldn't help but leaving that promising WC3 gaming scene to join an older one, just for the sake of my own personal entertainment, without considering the practical pros and cons of it (this sums pretty much almost every choice I make). Starcraft was so appealing because it required to be fast, smart, confident at the best of your own human ability and it felt I was constantly pushing myself to keep winning against better, faster and smarter players.
I played Starcraft for years after that. It was tough as it's the hardest online game ever made and I LOVED it more than anything else. I couldn't wait to come home from school to play Starcraft, and the fact I showed so much talent right from the start made me feel special, which is the best feeling in the world for a teenager. I could also connect and interact with people sharing my same passion around the world, and since at the time gamers weren't considered any cool that made me discover a whole new world of precious friends.
Over the years I've been very happy with Starcraft. School was going ok but I didn't care. The people I knew in real life didn't really understand what I was doing. Now that I am able to think back I realize that what was making me feel so good about Starcraft was the fact I could set very high and difficult goals for myself without having to deal with any shit that comes along any real life goal (social status, owned money and luck), and reaching them with my own abilities just felt amazing. The first time I qualified for World Cyber Games and went to Singapore I was 18 and it was one of the best experiences of my life. During the qualifier the experienced italian players that saw me playing said that I was so fast that they couldn't understand what was going on on my screen and that made me really proud. The trip to Singapore itself was so special I can't even describe it here, because it would take another full blog. Some years later I was able to reach the top of a ladder dominated by pro korean players (who, at the time, were way better than how good they are right now at SC2) and that felt way too good. I realized I could compete with some of the best players in the whole world in the game I loved so much and afterwards I got invited to join Templars of Twilight, the best international Starcraft team ever existed. Both these experiences gave me chills and heart bumps and a sense of realization I never felt before, it was a game yet it made me happy. It was the main course, while school, work and everything else was just like a less tasty side dish.
There are many more things to say and describe but these were pretty much the feeling I had playing Starcraft. I wasn't getting any money from it, only sponsored travels to play tournaments like WCG and Blizzcon in Europe, Asia and America, but it made me feel really good. Improving constantly, finding out that you have a great talent for something and having people recognize you for that, realizing that you are special and you can apply the same passion to other things in life are all things I got from Starcraft at the time and it felt like all my life that wasn't revolved around it was just in black and white. The game is so appealing because it's not between the person and a computer or another human being, you just try to beat yourself over and over, and when you do it feels great and you want more of it.
Eventually I stopped playing Starcraft for a short period of time and I waited for Starcraft 2 to come out. I was studying and then working and I felt I had to start sustaining myself and I couldn't play a game the same way. Yet when I was offered to move to Germany and be a progamer with a salary, traveling every week or two to some place I've never seen before to compete made me quit everything else I was doing at the time just to focus on gaming once more. I knew this wouldn't last too long for me but I wanted to live this experience to the fullest and grow as much as I could from it. That's exactly what happened and I'm really proud of myself for having done such a choice.
There was a problem in this though. For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider. Honestly to me, used to such a competitive game as Starcraft, it felt more like playing poker rather than a real time strategy game. I still played it, won a good amount of money and did reasonably well within the international progaming community, but I never really liked the game and I forced myself to do it only because of the invaluable life experience it was providing me. I tried really hard to like it so I could reach the very top once again but I couldn't really force my feelings and I knew I wouldn't go on for many years and take it as a real job. It takes an incredible amount of dedication to be a progamer and it's not something you can do without passion.
Recently, about a month ago, I was playing HotS beta. I switched to Protoss and it was going really well, but then a random question popped into my head. I would have to play 30 to 40 games for the next 2 years every day to be as good as I want to be, is it really worth it? I am soon 26, I had a lot of fun and great life experiences from eSports, what else can I get from it? The answer is not much. I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it, but what kept me from doing so in Starcraft2 was the fact I don't enjoy playing this game at all. I also have really high expectations from myself in my life and absolute confidence in my abilities to succeed in anything I decide to do and the best thing for me right now is start something else and make it blossom with what I learned from my invaluable gaming experience. I am going to move on and leave electronic sports behind. It was absolutely amazing and I want to remember it that way.
I would like to say something important to the people who belong to this great community, with the hope some of you can take this as an advice and example for yourself. During these 10 years I experienced and said many things, I've started from being a complete newbie and became a world class player, I've been a fanboy and then someone who doesn't understand fans, I've said in public what I thought as bluntly as I could and I also learned the importance of being delicate in many situations. Being able to see things in all these different perspectives made me understand that people are all very similar and they all want the same things. And in fact even if there's someone we disrespect, if we were born from his parents and experiences the same things he did we would do exactly the same things as he/she does. This is why I don't think we shouldn't praise or condemn anyone, but rather try to promote a positive attitude towards what's good for everyone, and enjoy what we have while trying to make it better.
It's easy to get caught in the flow of what people think and their judgement and I ask the people here to think a bit more carefully before judging someone you don't know, because he/she is a person acting on own impulses and expectations like everybody else.
That's all I have to say. I want to send a big hug to the TeamLiquid community for all the friends, emotions and support it gave me. I will keep sticking around because it always felt like a big family. TL has been my favorite place to visit on the internet and it will still be for a long time.
Goodbye everyone, it was a fantastic ride, I wish you good luck and to have fun in life as much as I did so far.
 
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gl hf irl sir! glad to have had you.. hope you'll be content with w/e you want to do or achieve IRL.
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Noooo! Best of luck going forward
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Good luck. I'm sure you won't need it.
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Good read, best of luck !
Maybe try to qualify for the next TLS if you feel like playing some games 
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i thought u wanna go wwith protoss now an win gsls..
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bye cloud T_T
appreciated that you tried talking to me at the homestory cup i went to 
best of luck at whatever you decide to do '~'
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GL man
See you around ^^
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You had some of the best foreigner mechanics for Terran, really sad that people won't remember you more for your amazing in game skills.
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we'll always be friends, good luck carlo in whatever you'll decide to do
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Goodbye Cloud, you'll be missed.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
See you cloud ;_; best of luck
Awesome farewell post
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Thank you for all the games you played over the years.
Good luck on whatever your next endeavor is.
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Sad to hear you're leaving. I really liked you.
Good luck in future endeavors!
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Enjoy your future endeavors! I hope you can figure out what to do as a career soon!
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On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
Honestly to me, used to such a competitive game as Starcraft, it felt more like playing poker rather than a real time strategy game.
Feels the same way watching it.
I really liked how you approached the game and the way you played. You and Major were always the two foreign Terrans I hoped would do well for that reason. Good luck in the future.
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Good luck cookie monster!
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Iraq1230 Posts
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So... Will you be giving porn that shot now?
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Mondays suck
Good luck in the future, I'm sure you'll be successful in whatever you decide to do with your life.
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so saaaaad
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Good luck with everything you do. Arrividerci.
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Zurich15328 Posts
Sad to see you leave, but GLHF in your future endeavors!
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makes me sad I didn't have the chance to meet you in person before (should have happened at ESWC 2011 :<)
Take care dude and enjoy yourself !
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np. Celin Dion - My heart will go on
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thats not easy decision to make ...
take my respect cloud
always was your fan, your charisma and play style are just impressive
please post sometimes some cool things about your life in twitter  ))
i wish you all the best !!!
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Anecdote: when I first got into BW I was checking different sites and saw you on top of WGTour (?). I thought you were the best player in the world ^^. Of course, after that I saw the koreans, but since then, I followed your games and you were one of my favorite foreigners.
Wish you the best of luck Cloud, and glad you're sticking around the community!
+ Show Spoiler +
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Bye cloud.
Have fun in life!
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Who will i see beat White-Ra 3-2 now
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Really sad to see this. I wish you the best in the future!
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Knew it was coming, but still sad to read. Best of luck Carlo, and hope to see you pick up BW again even if just casually for a few games every now and then
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Cookie Monster
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Farewell ClouD, you're a great player and will be sorely missed in the EU scene, all the best mate.
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4713 Posts
From reading your blogs I've gotten the feeling you put all your passion and heart into pro gaming, to see you now retire feels really sad, but understandable. I wish you the best of luck Carlo, and I hope that you can find something worthy of pouring your heart into, just as you did with BW, I'm sure with your passion and dedication you can succeed in anything.
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It was a nice feeling to think during the sc2 competition : This player (Cloud) it's Italian! ty alot (: !
I wish you the best in whatever you decede to do!
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Sounds like a good decision, best of luck in whatever you decide to get into next.
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All the best for your future Cloud.
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it's funny - i come alot on reddit/r/starcraft, and alot of them hate you quite alot - and i was trying to explain to them, that they should apriciate a guy saying it like it is - but yeah, just keep being blunt about things, it's a rly good quality - good luck.
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Good luck to you ClouD. Really liked your snarkiness :D
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GG Cloud, it's been an honour having you in BW and in SC2. Good luck with the real life and all that, adieu!
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On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it [..]
Dude, that's what im thinking about myself all the time too!
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exactly my thoughts.
I don't care if he's gone or not, he kept sayin that these are bad players with bad mechanics, but loosing to GoOdy over and over again just shows me that he has in fact no clue what he was talking about. I bet Korean Pros would laugh at his mechanics when they see him playing StarCraft BW / StarCraft 2.
ClouD never achieved anything big or even constantly winning anything, sorry ClouD, you're not a loss for me or atleast in my eyes for the community.
"I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it."
This attitude you have is what always annoyed me about you, because you always showed exactly the opposite. Sure, you believe if you only put more dedication, you'd have show it, but IMO you're deluded and the sooner you understand the better for you.
Exactly
But for your real life, keep on fighting like you did in your Broodwar days. That's pretty much all I've to say
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good luck with whatever you will do next Cloud, you will be missed !
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On March 18 2013 20:33 NexCa wrote:exactly my thoughts. I don't care if he has gone or not, he kept sayin that these are bad players with bad mechanics, but loosing to GoOdy over and over again just shows me that he has in face no clue what he was talking about. I bet Korean Pros would laugh at his mechanics when they see him playing StarCraft BW / StarCraft 2. ClouD never achieved anything big or even constantly winning anything, sorry ClouD, you're not a loss for me or atleast in my eyes for the community. Show nested quote +"I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it."
This attitude you have is what always annoyed me about you, because you always showed exactly the opposite. Sure, you believe if you only put more dedication, you'd have show it, but IMO you're deluded and the sooner you understand the better for you. Exactly But for your real life, keep on fighting like you did in your Broodwar days. That's pretty much all I've to say
To me it sounds more like he switched to protoss, realized that all of the stuff he ever said was bullshit, and deep down realized how ashamed he is because of that... and then he quit.
I liked cloud for his bluntness, but the amount of bullshit was strong in this one, to say the least.
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so long, cloud, best of luck to you
you were the only terran who told things as they were without giving a single fuck
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On March 18 2013 20:38 SKYFISH_ wrote:
you were the only terran who told things as they were without giving a single fuck
I agree, it was always interesting and funny to read what he thinked.
Sad but wise decision. You were my favorite foreigner protoss player on Brood War :p.
Good luck !
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Goodbye Carlo,
you are always an inspiration for me. I like your play, your character, your blogs (lol).
Thank you for everything you have done!
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1. You're Protoss in SC1 which doesn't mean much
2. If SC2 is so random how come Flash was eating foreigners for breakfast in MLG.
3. Goodbye
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Meh Carlo. You will be missed ! But as a Broodwar player you know that you simply cannot retire the game :D
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Well, the same way you gave us advice, I'd just like to give some advice back, in the best possible way.
I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it.
A lot of times in life, when you express an opinion, what you say can be equally important, as to HOW you say it. Even if what you're trying to communicate, has the best intentions, it's amazing how differently people respond when you actually express an opinion in such a way that shows no cockiness or personal ego. You probably already know that, and I'm not trying to bash you, and I know your actually giving us advice on that topic, but your comment above shows cockiness and ego, and perhaps you don't feel that way, but that's what your communicating. Also, a ton of foreigners can probably make the same statement and be more convincing... no offense.
Honestly to me, used to such a competitive game as Starcraft, it felt more like playing poker rather than a real time strategy game.
Results so far in the Starcraft II era, for sure don't show that it's a luck based game. Yeah... sure there's luck. No one can deny that. But I can confidently say it's not even close to how much luck based is poker. And honestly you won't find almost any sport out there that doesn't have at least some luck involved.
It's easy to get caught in the flow of what people think and their judgement and I ask the people here to think a bit more carefully before judging someone you don't know,
I think that should be advice both to us and to yourself, cause you have been bad mannered yourself in the past. And how do I know this? We've played a lot on the ladder and you weren't that nice to me...
Anyway I could point out a couple more things, but I'll end on a good note. Good Luck in whatever you do and Have Fun doing it.
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Thanks for all the kind words everyone. I think I would have done really well as Protoss and I was really enjoying them in HotS, especially PvP. Deciding to quit was actually something I would never expect so early, but better opportunities showed up right now and I had to take them at the right moment. One of the things I learned is that once a good opportunity shows up you usually have a small time window for taking it and then it's gone forever. I could have very well just played terran again but I just evaluated the pros and cons and I think I am taking by far the most valuable choice by quitting.
I understand what some of you guys think after some of the things I've said, and it really doesn't matter anymore, I actually wish I was wrong and that this game will provide more skill intensive games like SCBW does. I'll keep watching some tournaments and maybe post some stuff in the live threads for fun.
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On March 18 2013 20:46 ppshchik wrote:
2. If SC2 is so random how come Flash was eating foreigners for breakfast in MLG.
You mean how can he even lose a single game vs Bly ? :D
@ppshchik : No. Not at all.
/troll
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All the best Carlo
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Good luck Cloud
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On March 18 2013 20:48 AbstractSC wrote:Well, the same way you gave us advice, I'd just like to give some advice back, in the best possible way. Show nested quote + I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it. A lot of times in life, when you express an opinion, what you say can be equally important, as to HOW you say it. Even if what you're trying to communicate, has the best intentions, it's amazing how differently people respond when you actually express an opinion in such a way that shows no cockiness or personal ego. You probably already know that, and I'm not trying to bash you, and I know your actually giving us advice on that topic, but your comment above shows cockiness and ego, and perhaps you don't feel that way, but that's what your communicating. Also, a ton of foreigners can probably make the same statement and be more convincing... no offense. Show nested quote + Honestly to me, used to such a competitive game as Starcraft, it felt more like playing poker rather than a real time strategy game. Results so far in the Starcraft II era, for sure don't show that it's a luck based game. Yeah... sure there's luck. No one can deny that. But I can confidently say it's not even close to how much luck based is poker. And honestly you won't find almost any sport out there that doesn't have at least some luck involved. Show nested quote + It's easy to get caught in the flow of what people think and their judgement and I ask the people here to think a bit more carefully before judging someone you don't know, I think that should be advice both to us and to yourself, cause you have been bad mannered yourself in the past. And how do I know this? We've played a lot on the ladder and you weren't that nice to me... Anyway I could point out a couple more things, but I'll end on a good note. Good Luck in whatever you do and Have Fun doing it.
I thought a lot about how to express myself, and I came to the conclusion that what works best for me is to just say what I think as honestly as I can. That might sound like cockiness to you but that's exactly what I believe and as long as my opinion is not hurting anyone I feel it's completely acceptable to express things that way. But you know everyone is different, I do things that way because I appreciate people who do the same, and I understand there are some who don't. That's just how it works, you can't please everybody, so why don't just be and please yourself in the first place?
Regarding my BM on the ladder, it occurred in periods when I was really stressed and as I could be extremely nice I can also be very rude when put in a bad mental condition (like almost everybody). If you are zerg and we played in the past year there's a very high chance I did. I apologize for that and I was wrong in doing so to you or anybody, that was the result of me playing a game I didn't really like as a profession for a prolonged period of time. Hope that didn't hurt your feelings or confidence, sometimes it's just hard to handle the stress of playing a lot
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It is always saddening to see a good player leave the community. I haven't always liked and agreed with somethings that he has said, but he always speaks his mind. There is nothing wrong with that. Best of luck to you Cloud, it is a shame we will not be able to see what you could have brought to the table as a Protoss player.
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On March 18 2013 20:49 Glioburd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 20:46 ppshchik wrote:
2. If SC2 is so random how come Flash was eating foreigners for breakfast in MLG. You mean how can he even lose a single game vs Bly ? :D /troll
Dropping a game to Shine in a matured game like BW is a much bigger embarassment than
dropping a game to Bly in the first tiurny of a SC2 expansion back.
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good luck in your new career cloud! you can quit being a programer but don't quit being a part of the community
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![[image loading]](http://cursors4.totallyfreecursors.com/thumbnails/cookie-monster.gif)
Good luck in your future endeavours
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glgl
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I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it, oh please, just stop lying to yourself.
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I thought a lot about how to express myself, and I came to the conclusion that what works best for me is to just say what I think as honestly as I can. That might sound like cockiness to you but that's exactly what I believe and as long as my opinion is not hurting anyone I feel it's completely acceptable to express things that way. But you know everyone is different, I do things that way because I appreciate people who do the same, and I understand there are some who don't. That's just how it works, you can't please everybody, so why don't just be and please yourself in the first place?
Regarding my BM on the ladder, it occurred in periods when I was really stressed and as I could be extremely nice I can also be very rude when put in a bad mental condition (like almost everybody). If you are zerg and we played in the past year there's a very high chance I did. I apologize for that and I was wrong in doing so to you or anybody, that was the result of me playing a game I didn't really like as a profession for a prolonged period of time. Hope that didn't hurt your feelings or confidence, sometimes it's just hard to handle the stress of playing a lot
Well I am Zerg and we did play the last year. And no you didn't hurt my feelings and I 100% understand stress. I've been playing chess competitively for years and I trust me I know about stress.
But other than that, I don't think its WHAT you said publicly that made people mad at you. And I don't know you personally well enough to draw any conclusions whether you are cocky or have a huge ego. It's HOW you communicated your message that I think bothered people the most. And just to give you a simple example of what I mean, imagine if my post was written in such a way, where, even if I were saying the same things, my words expressed more anger than my willingness to give advice back... You probably wouldn't even read it, or read it and think "who is this asshole...". Even if the message was the same.
I recall you expressed your disdain about certain casters, and if you recall a lot of notable people agreed, (i agreed myself, and I still do.) however the way you said made it sound more like your hating, instead of trying to pass a message for a better future, which probably was your intention anyway. You can STILL be yourself, but not everyone knows who you are or what your intentions are, so it's only natural people misinterpret.
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Bad news, u're the only italian champion on international stage. I know it was a difficult decision, closing a long chapter of your life when u' re still competive as u shown to be at the last Vasacast Invitational playing vs TLO, WhiteRa or Vortix .
Good Luck for the future, me and Pata waiting for own u on BW
See u Cloud
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Noo the cookie monster guy
Hope you do well in whatever you do, peace out
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What good opportunity showed up?^^ I wish you good luck whatever it is!
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On March 18 2013 21:25 Quakie wrote:
What good opportunity showed up?^^ I wish you good luck whatever it is!
I had the opportunity to be coached by some of the best italian poker players right now and I'm going to try poker with my best friend (who also is an italian rts champion) for the next year. I'm confident I will do well, and in case I don't like it I have several options prepared. It just happened right now and I thought I should have taken the chance while I could. Poker is a really fun to play and complex game and it also allows to compete and travel while making a lot more money than with SC2. If that didn't happen I would have played for the next year or two, but not more than that for sure.
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After seeing you play at the Vasacast I was just thinking you had finally nailed it, then you switched to Protoss.
Then I thought: well, it's more micro intensive, it's going to suit him better... and now you quit T______T
A real shame, but we generally forget that behind a player there's a person as well.
Gl in your life, please stay around!
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Good luck with your Poker endeavors Cloud! You were both a great BW and SC2 player, the foreign scene won't be the same without an old school guy like you around. Sad news, but I wish you the best :D
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hello cloud, this is julia from esl. you realized as one of the few people that I have been working 16 years to create great esports events and you gave me credit for my hard work, just as I gave you credit for your achievements and hard work as a progamer. we did not become closest friends but close enough to add each other on facebook and we have had a professional event organizer - progamer relationship, a relationship just the way it should be with patience and respect. Therefore I am on the one hand deeply in shock because my favourite Italian PROTOSS will not play for me anymore and give me moments of awe and entertainment, on the other hand you are such an incredible grown up person now coming from your esports history, that you can make a decision that a michael schumacher and many others cannot make. you move on and you leave with dignity, I hope I can print your goodbye post in the esports yearbook and I will be happy to see you at gamescom.
yours
Julia
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It would be awesome if you'd consider playing in the next TLS!
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Take care, I remember your nickname back in the wc3 days, it's nice to have history like that to leave behind.
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A shame Blizzard still didn't make WC4.
I like SC2 but I liked wc3 as much and often really miss it.
WC3 and broodwar always coexisted. WC4 and SC2 could too.
And if Blizzard doesn't do it, some Indy developer could step up.
The game type is missing at the moment and there is no reason why, since many people love it.
Wish you well Cloud!
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Ahh really sad, was expecting ClouD to do well at some point in hots when heard from artosis that he's changing to protoss in hots.
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On March 18 2013 20:33 NexCa wrote:exactly my thoughts. I don't care if he's gone or not, he kept sayin that these are bad players with bad mechanics, but loosing to GoOdy over and over again just shows me that he has in fact no clue what he was talking about. I bet Korean Pros would laugh at his mechanics when they see him playing StarCraft BW / StarCraft 2.
MMA lost to Goody and didn't know wtf just happened to him. Your point ?
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Thank you for the awesome time/games!
I will never forget your win against ForGG in the Stim to the Win Tournament and how happy you were afterwards!!
Good luck!
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On March 18 2013 21:28 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 21:25 Quakie wrote:
What good opportunity showed up?^^ I wish you good luck whatever it is! I had the opportunity to be coached by some of the best italian poker players right now and I'm going to try poker with my best friend (who also is an italian rts champion) for the next year. I'm confident I will do well, and in case I don't like it I have several options prepared. It just happened right now and I thought I should have taken the chance while I could. Poker is a really fun to play and complex game and it also allows to compete and travel while making a lot more money than with SC2. If that didn't happen I would have played for the next year or two, but not more than that for sure.
Any way of following your coming up poker career?
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Best of luck in life, I hope you outgrow your phallic concerns also
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poker will make u either rich or very poor.
always watch ur back dude, good luck whatever u do
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You were a great personality to have in the german scene.
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GL Cloud, a pillar of italian SC community
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I didn't know you very long, but you had some brutally honest interviews during one homestory cup (i forget which one), and I have a lot of respect for your opinions as a result of those interviews. I hope you find what it is you seek!
Ryan
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It's been an honour to know and meet you, Carlo!
Great blog, once again, and I want to wish you only the best for the future
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gl hf in your future, would be great to hear what are you doing afterwards and if you enjoy it.
will you study or go straight into another job?
would be so great if we can hear your story in about a year or so.
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3 lines before the balance complaining starts, that feels like a new record of a broken record. Anyways, good luck with whatever.
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Best of luck, your TSL antics made me a fan for life.
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Good on you man. 26, good decision. Your dedication to improving yourself at something you want to do will serve you well in life.
Best of luck Cloud!
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This is sad, but I think you are making the right choice and I wish you the best of luck.
As someone who doesn't watch SC2 much anymore, I want you to know though that I always relished tuning into your stream, and watching you cast games. Your combination of humor and in-game knowledge made games very enjoyable to watch, and so I sincerely hope you at least stay around the scene and make some casting appearances from time to time.
Thanks for everything!
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On March 18 2013 21:48 cArn- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 20:33 NexCa wrote:exactly my thoughts. I don't care if he's gone or not, he kept sayin that these are bad players with bad mechanics, but loosing to GoOdy over and over again just shows me that he has in fact no clue what he was talking about. I bet Korean Pros would laugh at his mechanics when they see him playing StarCraft BW / StarCraft 2. MMA lost to Goody and didn't know wtf just happened to him. Your point ?
Did you even read the article's on twitter ? Or is this just dumb questioning !?
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I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.
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good Luck, today my last (not least, i loved your play) favourite old school pro leaves the scene.
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On March 18 2013 21:28 aTnClouD wrote:
I had the opportunity to be coached by some of the best italian poker players right now and I'm going to try poker with my best friend (who also is an italian rts champion) for the next year. I'm confident I will do well, and in case I don't like it I have several options prepared. It just happened right now and I thought I should have taken the chance while I could. Poker is a really fun to play and complex game and it also allows to compete and travel while making a lot more money than with SC2. If that didn't happen I would have played for the next year or two, but not more than that for sure.
If that's not asked to much: Online or offline; sngs, mtts or cashgame and plo or nlhe? Do you think you can keep your emotions out of your game and your results out of your life?
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Wow, nice read. Hope you will find a new addiction. Best of luck Carlo!
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One of the most honest people in the community. Respect, Cloud, gl & hf with what you do!
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I would say " believe in yourself, you re able to do well" but I think you already believe in yourself enough lol.
However I would also say "Watchout, you can be blunt sometimes" but I thin you are already aware of that.
So GL in poker but meh, no need, you ve got already the skills from sc2
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I don't know you in person but you were very rude / whiny / BM to me in the ladder games we played, I hope this break from pro gaming will make you enjoy the game more as a casual / non-pro player.
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Good luck Cloud! Although I dont really think you need it.
About the whole being-blunt thing:
Yes, you can tiptoe around other people egos/feelings etc. But honestly, you cant be friends with everyone. Or some people just dont have the need to be friends with everyone. So as long as one can live with other people being blunt towards oneself in return I dont see a problem.
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Lurking around here I just have to say that I'll miss your trashtalk tweets and that shit. It was ridiculous.
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^ i laughed
Gl in the future Cloud
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I enjoyed listening to your opinion on most everything. I'll still have you in my twitter feed.
gg gl Carlo!
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I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it, but what kept me from doing so in Starcraft2 was the fact I don't enjoy playing this game at all.
This made me like you less. It is very childish and unrespectful of you to say no other foreigner has as much talent as you, especially becaues most of them achieved so much more in sc2 than you ever did. I will sadly remember you as a balance whiner that overestimated himself too much :/
Still good luck in life and everything, i hoped you would have written something nicer at the end.
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All the best, hope you can new passions in life.
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Good luck Carlo! I personally will miss your candor . Hopefully we'll see you as a WSOP champ down the road
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Good luck cloud, You should still write girl blogs though. Also I can't find your cookie monster image -_-.
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DAMNIT MAN
I thought you were switching to toss for hots! what happened??
glhf wherever you go
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couldnt fall in love with sc2 because it felt too much like poker, attempts to switch career to poker. ----------_______---------?
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On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.
Agreed. Imagine how cocky Flash or Jaedong could be moving in sc2 right now. They could basically say what the fuck they like to make excuses for not winning everything but as far as I know they are practicing hard at improving at a new game and getting their heads down and Flash is already looking like he is going to be the boss he was in BW.
Nothing wrong with not liking a game enough to play it passionately everyday, NaDa stepped out of sc2 for the reason that it was not quite the game for him. He did not make any rants (excuses really) about sc2 being too easy, he bowed out gracefully, respect.
The like of Cloud and Idra just bring a lot of negativity really, although some people seem to like this... gl to you Cloud anyway.
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On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.
I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine.
Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.
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Goodbye. Best of luck, cloud.
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On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.
Thanks for parafrasing, but I just see some people are trying to find random excuses to hate. That's what you get for making bold statements in public, you end up being incredibly polarizing. But I have to say all these butthurt reactions made it completely fun and worthy :D
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gl cloud, probably a good decision .. although as you said weirdly timed
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On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.
i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?
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On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players.
SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them.
Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2.
On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it?
His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.
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Even though you diden't win major tournaments, i was always a fan of your style and personality, i watched you guys fool around at homestorycup religiously, and i wish i could be in your shoes.
I wish you the best ClouD!
- a fan
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: ( Good luck. What are you persuing, right now?
And you can always play BW (I am assuming that you still enjoy it)on your off time and play in the TLS, hahaha you'd probably rape face.
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On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.
You are talking to one of the best foreigners... /facepalm
As he said he isn't enjoying the game and when you dislike a game that you are supposed to be the best and improve at it's kind of hard to do it...
it would be nice if people actually read the blogs before posting...
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On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it? His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game.
Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is.
Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.
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many players are practicing a lot and still can not compete with worlds best koreans
also i find it very sad that cloud is making fun of everyone who criticizes his opinion of being the most talented foreigner ("I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it"), it is like argueing with a kid.. he says something, you say something, he laughs about you for having a different opinion
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no morre cool italian player now =|
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Your attitude will not be missed.
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I also have really high expectations from myself in my life and absolute confidence in my abilities to succeed in anything I decide to do and the best thing for me right now is start something else and make it blossom with what I learned from my invaluable gaming experience. I am going to move on and leave electronic sports behind. It was absolutely amazing and I want to remember it that way.
i hope every single person read this.
this is a very important part of what he was saying. the confidence to succeed is all you need to be something in this world, and leave your mark in life. he is taking some of the most important lessons from his pro-gaming life and applying it elsewhere, which in a way is a lot more important than winning $$$$$.
good luck cloud, you're gonna be the best at whatever it is you pursue.
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glhf whatever you do Cloud. You're a great human being, I have no doubt you'll succeed in your new path.
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Cloud is one of those names you never expect to leave. I'll miss his play and all the excitement he brought in and out of the game.
Glhf in real life man.
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Best of luck to you ClouD. Hope you come back one day!
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I dont know why you're leaving when terran is so strong. And u switched to protoss. Dont know it looks really stupid, because you were whining a lot during the times when zerg was winning everything. Anyway good luck.
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Thanks for being such a baller cloud, and good luck in later life, the SC2 scene will miss you
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Good luck in "real" life, I'm sure you'll be as successful there as you were ig.
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Awwww, sad news. I've always been a big fan despite the fact that you played the dirty race (referring to P, in BW).
Good luck with whatever you decide to do from here on! ^__^
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One of the only pro-gamer who has the guts to say what he thinks about SC2. Utter shit compared to BW. Also, one who is not afraid to say Terran > Protoss in terms of skill requires (I did the switch myself, and even when I was protoss, I knew I was playing the baby race).
Cloud, I wish you the best of luck in real life. Esports at the moment is still more like a child's dream than a career. However, if you were top foreigner in BW (i did not follow BW), it is clear that you have the dedications and the talent to start a real career.
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Good luck in the future Cloud. Will miss you.
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"The game is so appealing because it's not between the person and a computer or another human being, you just try to beat yourself over and over, and when you do it feels great and you want more of it."
this is why BW is so great
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U were my favorite foreign Terran in SC2, too bad I never followed your glory days.
Hope u find luck wherever u end up!
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On March 19 2013 01:10 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. You are talking to one of the best foreigners... /facepalm As he said he isn't enjoying the game and when you dislike a game that you are supposed to be the best and improve at it's kind of hard to do it... it would be nice if people actually read the blogs before posting...
I would call that a bit over an exaggeration, ClouD was good, as good as a lot of foreigners, but he was hardly one of the best foreigners. Maybe he was in BW (I'm not that much of a hipster), but not in SC2. Maybe he could have been with passion, but we will never know.
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Best of luck in poker Cloud! It is sad to see you go as a player, I hope, you´ll still be around on twitter and in the forum from time to time.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2. On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it? His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game. Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is. Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse.
Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.
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On March 19 2013 02:24 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:10 thezanursic wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. You are talking to one of the best foreigners... /facepalm As he said he isn't enjoying the game and when you dislike a game that you are supposed to be the best and improve at it's kind of hard to do it... it would be nice if people actually read the blogs before posting... I would call that a bit over an exaggeration, ClouD was good, as good as a lot of foreigners, but he was hardly one of the best foreigners. Maybe he was in BW (I'm not that much of a hipster), but not in SC2. Maybe he could have been with passion, but we will never know.
no, he wasn't top foreign in BW either and by a long shot lol
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<3 GL to you Cloud my friend!
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On March 18 2013 20:33 NexCa wrote:exactly my thoughts. I don't care if he's gone or not, he kept sayin that these are bad players with bad mechanics, but loosing to GoOdy over and over again just shows me that he has in fact no clue what he was talking about. I bet Korean Pros would laugh at his mechanics when they see him playing StarCraft BW / StarCraft 2. ClouD never achieved anything big or even constantly winning anything, sorry ClouD, you're not a loss for me or atleast in my eyes for the community. Show nested quote +"I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it."
This attitude you have is what always annoyed me about you, because you always showed exactly the opposite. Sure, you believe if you only put more dedication, you'd have show it, but IMO you're deluded and the sooner you understand the better for you. Exactly But for your real life, keep on fighting like you did in your Broodwar days. That's pretty much all I've to say
couldnt agree more. He was always bad and now he writes shit like this? I laughed hard.
I could be an fighter-pilot and physics professor if I would put more dedication into it....
Bye. Took you quite long to recognize that youre not very good at this game.
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Ah, reading your blog, I feel the same as watching your BW games vs your SC2's.
Passion was there and, be proud of it, you realize it as a BW champion. Thanks for all these great games.
Good luck for the future, I'm sure you'll find passion in many other topics.
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I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision.
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United States33388 Posts
too bad you're quitting pro-gaming, but now there's more time for WRITING
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gl hf
i know a person as smart and dedicated as you will make it far
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On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision.
My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment
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On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2. On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it? His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game. Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is. Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse. Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win.
On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider.
Did you read the OP?
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I've only heard of Cloud before, but have no idea what he looks or know much about him as he either didn't participate in MLG tournaments or was just not good enough to get air time to be seen.
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Catch you on the flipside.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 03:28 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2. On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it? His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game. Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is. Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse. Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider. Did you read the OP?
Let me just bold something for you:
On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
It's a way easier game than Starcraft
Oh look, he doesn't say it's easy, he says it's easier than Starcraft:BW. I can list a whole bunch of games that are easier than Starcraft that are still hard games.
If I say that someone is a worse Zerg player than Life that doesn't mean I think they're a terrible Zerg player, same thing holds true here.
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GL. Hope you keep blogging still.
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On March 19 2013 04:32 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 03:28 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2. On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it? His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game. Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is. Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse. Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win. On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider. Did you read the OP? Let me just bold something for you: Oh look, he doesn't say it's easy, he says it's easier than Starcraft:BW. I can list a whole bunch of games that are easier than Starcraft that are still hard games. If I say that someone is a worse Zerg player than Life that doesn't mean I think they're a terrible Zerg player, same thing holds true here.
He's saying it is easy.
And the luck part? You know, where he says luck is a "huge" factor?
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"I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it, but what kept me from doing so in Starcraft2 was the fact I don't enjoy playing this game at all."
So the only reason you aren't the best foreigner is because you hate sc2?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:44 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 04:32 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 03:28 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 02:36 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:11 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 01:04 Targe wrote:On March 19 2013 01:03 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. SC2 is not rock-paper-scissors. There are pro-players that win fairly consistently, and can beat worse players regularly. Cloud was not one of them. Calling a game you are bad at easy just doesn't make a lot of sense and is just an excuse. You are only as good as you actually are. There is no "I could be this, or should be that." Whatever stops him from being a good player SC2 is a flaw that makes him not a good player SC2. On March 19 2013 01:00 Stoffelhase wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. i think cloud has (or would have) around 5-10% winrate vs Code S koreans.. Also koreans are dominating foreigner tournament, even when they are low in numbers.. what you are saying (sc2 is very random, doesnt let the better player win often enough) seems not to be true, does it? His point was not that he was better than all these players, he was suggesting that if he put the time in and worked all day every day with all his passion he would be able to compete. His reason for not practising was that he had no passion for the game. Exactly, and that makes him a bad SC2 player. Not "having a passion" for something is a reason to be bad at something, but it doesn't make it less true. If you don't like fly-fishing you'll probably be bad at fly-fishing. There might be a reason you still go fly-fishing in spite of not liking it, and maybe you get good at it for whatever that reason is. Cloud doesn't like SC2, which makes him bad at SC2. Which is fine. The problem comes when you say "I could be amazing at this game I just don't like it." Well, no one cares what you could be. There might be a kid living in a 3rd world country that is a prodigy at the game but will never touch it because of his/her circumstances. No one cares about that kid, because they will never be good at SC2. He apparently had enough of a reason (money, etc. I don't know) to at least attempt to be a pro sc2 player. Judging strictly from his results, he wasn't too good at that. The reason behind it doesn't really matter. Claiming "I could have been this" is worthless, because you can't actually prove anything of the sort. It is just making an excuse. Never said he was good, wasn't even implying it, I was just pointing out that he didn't say SC2 was easy and he didn't claim it was too luck based for him to win. On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
For someone like me who likes the competition and the challenge Starcraft2 was not really the right game. It's a way easier game than Starcraft, attaining progamer skills didn't take a third of the effort as it used to take before and the luck factor was a huge thing to consider. Did you read the OP? Let me just bold something for you: On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
It's a way easier game than Starcraft
Oh look, he doesn't say it's easy, he says it's easier than Starcraft:BW. I can list a whole bunch of games that are easier than Starcraft that are still hard games. If I say that someone is a worse Zerg player than Life that doesn't mean I think they're a terrible Zerg player, same thing holds true here. He's saying it is easy. And the luck part? You know, where he says luck is a "huge" factor?
You can't just say he's saying it's easy, he's saying it's easier than Starcraft.
Luck I believe would be him complaining how compared to Starcraft where it was very hard for a worse player to win, it's easier in SC2.
I'm not going to reply after this post, I'm only trying to point out how people are exaggeration/mis-understanding the op. Some people it seems are determined to hate ClouD, whatever.
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I will remember you from your BW days.
GL in poker ! Tough world to venture into, especially if you stay in Italy.
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GL HF in life man.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/userfiles/27814.gif?1344955261)
The best is still to come.
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I hope you think the same way about your esports-time 10 years down the line...
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It was an honor!
GL in your future endeavours.
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I agree with your sentiments regarding the game and wish you best of luck .
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Good luck, Cloud. I appreciate your participation on teamliquid both as a forum member and as a player. Hopefully you'll still do the site the honour by sticking around.
I have to admit I am surprised at all the people who seem offended that you liked BW better than SC2. But I guess that is something that happens whenever both games are mentioned in the same post.
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On March 19 2013 02:36 Garmer wrote:
no, he wasn't top foreign in BW either and by a long shot lol
he said he was a world class player in BW.. (meaning he was able to compete with worlds best players (kespa)).. i didnt follow brood war, but this should be easy to check, do you have any list of his achievements? how many foreigners were up to par with korean A-teamers?
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All the best to you Carlo and good luck with whatever you set out to do next!
I was always surprised to see that you didn't reach the absolute top in SC2, considering I knew that you were capable of it, considering what a beast you were among foreingers in SC/BW. I'm glad I finally got to meet you in person, and I think you are an awesome person. You were one of the most genuine and honest guys i've met, and even if you had some extreme opinions I always had tonsof fun hanging out with you at events. I'm sure whatever you decide to do next, you'll be successful doing it, as long as it's something you're passionate about
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So guys, I'm retiring, but just so you know, if i wanted, i would have been the best foreigner, no question about that.
Yeah. Well. Way to go.
Still. Gl hf in your life!
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is awesome32274 Posts
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Great final post sir, good luck in your future endeavors!
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Didn't always agree with you, but always respected you.
Good luck!
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Buona fortuna Carlo, l'Italia perde il suo solo vero PGM... che triste...
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GL! Hope you made the right choice!
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On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment
The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win.
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good luck with whatever you go onto. and thank you for the entertaining you provided - you were amongst my favourite foreign terrans to watch.
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On March 18 2013 21:28 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 21:25 Quakie wrote:
What good opportunity showed up?^^ I wish you good luck whatever it is! I had the opportunity to be coached by some of the best italian poker players right now and I'm going to try poker with my best friend (who also is an italian rts champion) for the next year. I'm confident I will do well, and in case I don't like it I have several options prepared. It just happened right now and I thought I should have taken the chance while I could. Poker is a really fun to play and complex game and it also allows to compete and travel while making a lot more money than with SC2. If that didn't happen I would have played for the next year or two, but not more than that for sure.
It's your life and all, but I don't understand how you can chew out SC2 for being luck based and less skill oriented, and then turn around to pursue a poker career... Surely a few bad losses where you're losing actual money is going to turn your head to goop more than a few losses in SC2?
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have a good one m8 - always liked your clothing style ^_°
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Amazing post, amazing player. good luck cloud!
we will miss you cookie monster.
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On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded.
He doesn't have to prove shit to you or anyone else. If he doesn't enjoy the game because it's not fun, then he shouldn't drag himself out of bed every morning to make it a career.
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On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win.
Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often).
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Always sad to see retirements...
gl hf irl ClouD
Who'll take the spot as best Italian now?
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Sad :l But gl to you cloud! I seen one or two of your games and it was impressive, you were a great player! Def will be remembered in the starcraft hall of fame haha.
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On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often).
To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2.
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You generally don't win or lose in poker due to good/bad luck either.
Honestly, between top Korean players, winner is decided by a combination of current metagame, scouting, decision making, mind games, luck and various other elements of the game that don't involve any physical skill, but rather experience, preparation and overall knowledge. Even among Koreans, many genuinely talented players have been known to struggle in Code A/B while players with considerably worse execution and multitasking made deep runs in Code S.
Players better at certain things will still win, but not everybody likes or enjoys the specific things that make a player "better" in SC2, which is what I believe he was trying to say (or at least how I feel about it).
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On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2.
PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is.
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On March 19 2013 14:30 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. He doesn't have to prove shit to you or anyone else. If he doesn't enjoy the game because it's not fun, then he shouldn't drag himself out of bed every morning to make it a career.
He doesn't, but he leaves saying he could have been one of the best foreigners.
Well if you can't be a champion in real life, I guess try to be a champion in your own head?
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On March 19 2013 23:20 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:30 ninazerg wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. He doesn't have to prove shit to you or anyone else. If he doesn't enjoy the game because it's not fun, then he shouldn't drag himself out of bed every morning to make it a career. He doesn't, but he leaves saying he could have been one of the best foreigners. Well if you can't be a champion in real life, I guess try to be a champion in your own head?
So... you are a loser in your own head? I feel sorry for you.
User was warned for this post
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On March 19 2013 23:48 Boanerges wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 23:20 HardlyNever wrote:On March 19 2013 14:30 ninazerg wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. He doesn't have to prove shit to you or anyone else. If he doesn't enjoy the game because it's not fun, then he shouldn't drag himself out of bed every morning to make it a career. He doesn't, but he leaves saying he could have been one of the best foreigners. Well if you can't be a champion in real life, I guess try to be a champion in your own head? So... you are a loser in your own head? I feel sorry for you.
No, I just don't think I'm amazing at a game I'm terrible at. Huge difference.
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all the best wishes !! i allways liked to watch you playing sc2 ... thumbs up.
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Italy420 Posts
ciao bello,
hope to meet once again irl
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On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is.
An anomaly is your source to discredit something?
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"I never liked this game, feels like poker to me, still I dragged on for years, accomplishing pretty much nothing. Now Im gonna move on to playing poker." WTF?
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I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here.
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On March 20 2013 05:36 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 23:01 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is. Look, if SC2 was about luck, Cloud would've won something LOL! Damn, I thought this was a pretty witty-funny joke! HOW COME NO LULZ?? Not funny for y'all, or didn't notice it?
Generally, on TL, we don't do "lulz", and relegate that sort of thing over to whichever unfunny picture-forum people copy all their jokes from these days. But suffice to say, not funny at all. Spitting on someone's efforts when they retire only makes sense if they were a horrible person or a cheater. Cloud is neither of those, so I don't see why you've decide to needlessly waste so much time being combative and belligerent towards Carlo personally.
On March 19 2013 23:20 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:30 ninazerg wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. He doesn't have to prove shit to you or anyone else. If he doesn't enjoy the game because it's not fun, then he shouldn't drag himself out of bed every morning to make it a career. He doesn't, but he leaves saying he could have been one of the best foreigners. Well if you can't be a champion in real life, I guess try to be a champion in your own head?
So what? How in the world does that affect you? Any person with the experience he has can potentially be one of the best. "One of the best foreigners" isn't even that huge of an accomplishment considering how inconsistent many of the foreigners are.
As far as not being a "Champion", he won five 1st-place WCG titles five years in a row.
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On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here.
On March 20 2013 06:01 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 05:36 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 23:01 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is. Look, if SC2 was about luck, Cloud would've won something LOL! Damn, I thought this was a pretty witty-funny joke! HOW COME NO LULZ?? Not funny for y'all, or didn't notice it? Generally, on TL, we don't do "lulz", and relegate that sort of thing over to whichever unfunny picture-forum people copy all their jokes from these days. But suffice to say, not funny at all. Spitting on someone's efforts when they retire only makes sense if they were a horrible person or a cheater. Cloud is neither of those, so I don't see why you've decide to needlessly waste so much time being combative and belligerent towards Carlo personally.
Ok, I get you.
--
Edit: But ok, my 'war' here is done. Everyone is the way they are, including Carlo, me, Nina or luckyfool.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 20 2013 07:03 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here. Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 06:01 ninazerg wrote:On March 20 2013 05:36 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 23:01 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is. Look, if SC2 was about luck, Cloud would've won something LOL! Damn, I thought this was a pretty witty-funny joke! HOW COME NO LULZ?? Not funny for y'all, or didn't notice it? Generally, on TL, we don't do "lulz", and relegate that sort of thing over to whichever unfunny picture-forum people copy all their jokes from these days. But suffice to say, not funny at all. Spitting on someone's efforts when they retire only makes sense if they were a horrible person or a cheater. Cloud is neither of those, so I don't see why you've decide to needlessly waste so much time being combative and belligerent towards Carlo personally. Ok, I get you. PS Nina, speak for yourself when you say that we don't do lulz here, especially as I've been on TL longer than you -.- 'Lulz' can mean a variety of things, and I meant it in a way of appreciating a good joke, and obviously not literally which should be obvious from the all caps and exaggeration. Also, my joke isn't a copied image obviously -.- And Cloud isn't a nice person in my opinion. And since he values being open and saying what's on your mind, I'm sure he's loving me secretly.
I'm sure this was just a "joke" too.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2013 01:45 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 00:59 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. Thanks for parafrasing, but I just see some people are trying to find random excuses to hate. That's what you get for making bold statements in public, you end up being incredibly polarizing. But I have to say all these butthurt reactions made it completely fun and worthy :D butthurt reactions?? LOL hhahaha God you're an egomaniac.... You've been a total idiot on numerous occasions. People criticise. Instead of maybe reflecting, you label it as 'butthurt' and shut down the chance of actually stopping being an idiot...... You talked a lot of shit, never backed it up. You come off as a frustrated, deluded little chump that backs off when people expect him to follow up on his words with actions. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:11 Stoffelhase wrote:
many players are practicing a lot and still can not compete with worlds best koreans
also i find it very sad that cloud is making fun of everyone who criticizes his opinion of being the most talented foreigner ("I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it"), it is like argueing with a kid.. he says something, you say something, he laughs about you for having a different opinion Exactly... Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:21 Cassalina wrote:I also have really high expectations from myself in my life and absolute confidence in my abilities to succeed in anything I decide to do and the best thing for me right now is start something else and make it blossom with what I learned from my invaluable gaming experience. I am going to move on and leave electronic sports behind. It was absolutely amazing and I want to remember it that way. i hope every single person read this. this is a very important part of what he was saying. the confidence to succeed is all you need to be something in this world, and leave your mark in life. he is taking some of the most important lessons from his pro-gaming life and applying it elsewhere, which in a way is a lot more important than winning $$$$$. good luck cloud, you're gonna be the best at whatever it is you pursue. And yet, even tho he was 'confident', what did Cloud accomplish? Seriously, if you're gonna take a role model from the community, you've picked a wrong guy. Same shit with Idra.... him having so many fans is seriously depressing... --- Dear Cloud, I wish you have actually given it more time and desire to seriously give SC2 your biggest shot. My opinion is that you wouldn't accomplish anything big even then. Maybe you would. But it would have been good for you even if you failed, because if I am right, you are in a terrible fiction story about your immense talent, or shortly - in denial. Now, instead of facing the truth, you have walked away, which is fine if life offers more appealing options, but it would be sad if you get stuck in this cycle and approach poker the same way. "i'm super talented but..." "fuck... luck" "variance" "stupid donks" "bad runs". Since everyone is giving advice today, I'll give one too. Try something fully, give it your all. It's easier to live that way, less doubts and 'what-ifs'. I don't dislike you as a person, because I don't know who you are as a person. I only see this childish, overconfident persona painted over a person and I wanna rip it to shreds. I wish I could meet you one day, but the real you, not the role you're playing out.
You clearly have some chip on your shoulder, but let it go.
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On March 20 2013 09:07 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 07:03 niteReloaded wrote:On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here. On March 20 2013 06:01 ninazerg wrote:On March 20 2013 05:36 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 23:01 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:[quote] My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is. Look, if SC2 was about luck, Cloud would've won something LOL! Damn, I thought this was a pretty witty-funny joke! HOW COME NO LULZ?? Not funny for y'all, or didn't notice it? Generally, on TL, we don't do "lulz", and relegate that sort of thing over to whichever unfunny picture-forum people copy all their jokes from these days. But suffice to say, not funny at all. Spitting on someone's efforts when they retire only makes sense if they were a horrible person or a cheater. Cloud is neither of those, so I don't see why you've decide to needlessly waste so much time being combative and belligerent towards Carlo personally. Ok, I get you. PS Nina, speak for yourself when you say that we don't do lulz here, especially as I've been on TL longer than you -.- 'Lulz' can mean a variety of things, and I meant it in a way of appreciating a good joke, and obviously not literally which should be obvious from the all caps and exaggeration. Also, my joke isn't a copied image obviously -.- And Cloud isn't a nice person in my opinion. And since he values being open and saying what's on your mind, I'm sure he's loving me secretly. I'm sure this was just a "joke" too. + Show Spoiler +On March 19 2013 01:45 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 00:59 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. Thanks for parafrasing, but I just see some people are trying to find random excuses to hate. That's what you get for making bold statements in public, you end up being incredibly polarizing. But I have to say all these butthurt reactions made it completely fun and worthy :D butthurt reactions?? LOL hhahaha God you're an egomaniac.... You've been a total idiot on numerous occasions. People criticise. Instead of maybe reflecting, you label it as 'butthurt' and shut down the chance of actually stopping being an idiot...... You talked a lot of shit, never backed it up. You come off as a frustrated, deluded little chump that backs off when people expect him to follow up on his words with actions. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:11 Stoffelhase wrote:
many players are practicing a lot and still can not compete with worlds best koreans
also i find it very sad that cloud is making fun of everyone who criticizes his opinion of being the most talented foreigner ("I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it"), it is like argueing with a kid.. he says something, you say something, he laughs about you for having a different opinion Exactly... Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:21 Cassalina wrote:I also have really high expectations from myself in my life and absolute confidence in my abilities to succeed in anything I decide to do and the best thing for me right now is start something else and make it blossom with what I learned from my invaluable gaming experience. I am going to move on and leave electronic sports behind. It was absolutely amazing and I want to remember it that way. i hope every single person read this. this is a very important part of what he was saying. the confidence to succeed is all you need to be something in this world, and leave your mark in life. he is taking some of the most important lessons from his pro-gaming life and applying it elsewhere, which in a way is a lot more important than winning $$$$$. good luck cloud, you're gonna be the best at whatever it is you pursue. And yet, even tho he was 'confident', what did Cloud accomplish? Seriously, if you're gonna take a role model from the community, you've picked a wrong guy. Same shit with Idra.... him having so many fans is seriously depressing... --- Dear Cloud, I wish you have actually given it more time and desire to seriously give SC2 your biggest shot. My opinion is that you wouldn't accomplish anything big even then. Maybe you would. But it would have been good for you even if you failed, because if I am right, you are in a terrible fiction story about your immense talent, or shortly - in denial. Now, instead of facing the truth, you have walked away, which is fine if life offers more appealing options, but it would be sad if you get stuck in this cycle and approach poker the same way. "i'm super talented but..." "fuck... luck" "variance" "stupid donks" "bad runs". Since everyone is giving advice today, I'll give one too. Try something fully, give it your all. It's easier to live that way, less doubts and 'what-ifs'. I don't dislike you as a person, because I don't know who you are as a person. I only see this childish, overconfident persona painted over a person and I wanna rip it to shreds. I wish I could meet you one day, but the real you, not the role you're playing out. You clearly have some chip on your shoulder, but let it go.
Look from my perspective of not thinking too highly of him, it was a funny joke - on his account. I thought it was a joke. You thought it was tasteless spitting.
A good analogy would be religion. Religious people will be upset when somebody makes a joke on one of the priests or the pope, but people who see religion as fraud will joke all day long.
I made a joke on Cloud (religion), and you're a 'believer'.
I will stop now, because I'm not helping him any way by being so aggressive, and am making myself feel worse actually.
So, actually, sorry for being so destructive.
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On March 20 2013 09:22 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 09:07 ninazerg wrote:On March 20 2013 07:03 niteReloaded wrote:On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here. On March 20 2013 06:01 ninazerg wrote:On March 20 2013 05:36 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 23:01 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:
[quote]
The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is. Look, if SC2 was about luck, Cloud would've won something LOL! Damn, I thought this was a pretty witty-funny joke! HOW COME NO LULZ?? Not funny for y'all, or didn't notice it? Generally, on TL, we don't do "lulz", and relegate that sort of thing over to whichever unfunny picture-forum people copy all their jokes from these days. But suffice to say, not funny at all. Spitting on someone's efforts when they retire only makes sense if they were a horrible person or a cheater. Cloud is neither of those, so I don't see why you've decide to needlessly waste so much time being combative and belligerent towards Carlo personally. Ok, I get you. PS Nina, speak for yourself when you say that we don't do lulz here, especially as I've been on TL longer than you -.- 'Lulz' can mean a variety of things, and I meant it in a way of appreciating a good joke, and obviously not literally which should be obvious from the all caps and exaggeration. Also, my joke isn't a copied image obviously -.- And Cloud isn't a nice person in my opinion. And since he values being open and saying what's on your mind, I'm sure he's loving me secretly. I'm sure this was just a "joke" too. + Show Spoiler +On March 19 2013 01:45 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 00:59 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 00:51 L0L wrote:On March 18 2013 23:42 HardlyNever wrote:
I think you should stay and prove the game is as easy as you constantly claim it is. You've never actually shown that you can be anything remotely close to a top-tier pro.
If you don't enjoy it, though, then don't play it. Saying "this game is easy mode, but rather than win lots of money I'll just quit" just comes off as immature, and frankly, retarded. I don't think you understand what it means when a game is easy. It doesn't mean "oh, they you should win everytime". Look at rock paper scissors, one of the easiest games invented. It's really hard to have a winning record in rock paper scissors. The easier a game is the harder it is to win against lesser skilled opponents more often than not. That's why in easy games players have close to 50% win rate and hard games they can be near 100%. the truly skilled players shine. Cloud doesn't use this as an excuse though. He simply states that he lacked the passion to practice the way is necessary to be one of the top players. Thanks for parafrasing, but I just see some people are trying to find random excuses to hate. That's what you get for making bold statements in public, you end up being incredibly polarizing. But I have to say all these butthurt reactions made it completely fun and worthy :D butthurt reactions?? LOL hhahaha God you're an egomaniac.... You've been a total idiot on numerous occasions. People criticise. Instead of maybe reflecting, you label it as 'butthurt' and shut down the chance of actually stopping being an idiot...... You talked a lot of shit, never backed it up. You come off as a frustrated, deluded little chump that backs off when people expect him to follow up on his words with actions. Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:11 Stoffelhase wrote:
many players are practicing a lot and still can not compete with worlds best koreans
also i find it very sad that cloud is making fun of everyone who criticizes his opinion of being the most talented foreigner ("I know very well within myself I could stand above any non korean progamer if I put enough dedication into it"), it is like argueing with a kid.. he says something, you say something, he laughs about you for having a different opinion Exactly... Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:21 Cassalina wrote:I also have really high expectations from myself in my life and absolute confidence in my abilities to succeed in anything I decide to do and the best thing for me right now is start something else and make it blossom with what I learned from my invaluable gaming experience. I am going to move on and leave electronic sports behind. It was absolutely amazing and I want to remember it that way. i hope every single person read this. this is a very important part of what he was saying. the confidence to succeed is all you need to be something in this world, and leave your mark in life. he is taking some of the most important lessons from his pro-gaming life and applying it elsewhere, which in a way is a lot more important than winning $$$$$. good luck cloud, you're gonna be the best at whatever it is you pursue. And yet, even tho he was 'confident', what did Cloud accomplish? Seriously, if you're gonna take a role model from the community, you've picked a wrong guy. Same shit with Idra.... him having so many fans is seriously depressing... --- Dear Cloud, I wish you have actually given it more time and desire to seriously give SC2 your biggest shot. My opinion is that you wouldn't accomplish anything big even then. Maybe you would. But it would have been good for you even if you failed, because if I am right, you are in a terrible fiction story about your immense talent, or shortly - in denial. Now, instead of facing the truth, you have walked away, which is fine if life offers more appealing options, but it would be sad if you get stuck in this cycle and approach poker the same way. "i'm super talented but..." "fuck... luck" "variance" "stupid donks" "bad runs". Since everyone is giving advice today, I'll give one too. Try something fully, give it your all. It's easier to live that way, less doubts and 'what-ifs'. I don't dislike you as a person, because I don't know who you are as a person. I only see this childish, overconfident persona painted over a person and I wanna rip it to shreds. I wish I could meet you one day, but the real you, not the role you're playing out. You clearly have some chip on your shoulder, but let it go. Look from my perspective of not thinking too highly of him, it was a funny joke - on his account. I thought it was a joke. You thought it was tasteless spitting. A good analogy would be religion. Religious people will be upset when somebody makes a joke on one of the priests or the pope, but people who see religion as fraud will joke all day long. I made a joke on Cloud (religion), and you're a 'believer'. I will stop now, because I'm not helping him any way by being so aggressive, and am making myself feel worse actually. So, actually, sorry for being so destructive.
I pray to Cloud every night before I go to bed.
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good luck moving forward!
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Bye cookie monster.
Only mexicloud is left.
Join Gem League some time!
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On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here.
I think his peak came around TSL1 when he was considered to be one of the best foreigners. In SC2 it seemed like he was just another player.
GL with poker.
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United States10328 Posts
gl cloud
On March 20 2013 10:14 Trozz wrote:
Bye cookie monster.
Only mexicloud is left.
Join Gem League some time!
more like sexicloud
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On March 20 2013 10:26 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here. I think his peak came around TSL1 when he was considered to be one of the best foreigners. In SC2 it seemed like he was just another player. GL with poker.
Ah yes, well my views of him obviously include watching him in broodwar, I can see how sc2 only people would view differently.
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On March 20 2013 07:03 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 05:52 LuckyFool wrote:
I noticed it and it pissed me off because you're basically making a mockery of a great player and person in the community.
and according to TLPD he's won at least 10 online cups/reputable events and placed in the top 3/4 in dozens of others so I don't even really get it. In terms of a foreigner he was one of the best, I don't get some of the hate in here. Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 06:01 ninazerg wrote:On March 20 2013 05:36 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 23:01 niteReloaded wrote:On March 19 2013 22:03 StarVe wrote:On March 19 2013 19:29 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 15:29 Talin wrote:On March 19 2013 08:53 Zenbrez wrote:On March 19 2013 03:27 aTnClouD wrote:On March 19 2013 03:10 Savant.GL wrote:
I am slightly confused.
You said that playing SC2 was more like playing Poker, and that you didn't enjoy the game.
You stated with Sc2 there was more a luck factor, didn't take as much skill and wasn't really an RTS
So you are giving it up to go and play Poker, which is in your second quote is a really complex game.
Just seems to be a conflicting statement, almost like you are deluding yourself to justify the decision. My idea of RTS is playing a game where the best player should always win. If I want to play poker I play poker. In fact I like the game a lot, but I was expecting Starcraft2 to be something different from what it is now, hence the disappointment The fact that koreans beat foreigners 98%+ of the time and you beat them less than 2% of the time leads me to think the best player does win. Those are some very broad categories. Obviously players that put over 2-3 times more effort than their opponents will win most of the time. Even so, not even that will absolutely guarantee a win - Korean players still drop series to foreigners occasionally (and they drop single games quite often). To good foreigners yeah, but not to low tier foreigners. But that's also my point. If you DO put the time in (which we know generally speaking foreigners lack) you will get better and win based off skill. You think Life, Leenock, MVP, Parting, etc etc won all those champion titles because of luck? And Cloud never getting past the first round of a tournament is because of bad luck? He can make all the excuses in the world he wants, he wasn't good at sc2. Decent at sc1, but certainly not sc2. PartinG dropped a map to Combat-Ex who made it through the group stages at WCG against a bunch of players better than him. If that isn't an indicator that no matter how much you practice you can still easily lose, I don't know what is. Look, if SC2 was about luck, Cloud would've won something LOL! Damn, I thought this was a pretty witty-funny joke! HOW COME NO LULZ?? Not funny for y'all, or didn't notice it? Generally, on TL, we don't do "lulz", and relegate that sort of thing over to whichever unfunny picture-forum people copy all their jokes from these days. But suffice to say, not funny at all. Spitting on someone's efforts when they retire only makes sense if they were a horrible person or a cheater. Cloud is neither of those, so I don't see why you've decide to needlessly waste so much time being combative and belligerent towards Carlo personally. Ok, I get you. PS Nina, speak for yourself when you say that we don't do lulz here, especially as I've been on TL longer than you -.- 'Lulz' can mean a variety of things, and I meant it in a way of appreciating a good joke, and obviously not literally which should be obvious from the all caps and exaggeration. Also, my joke isn't a copied image obviously -.- And Cloud isn't a nice person in my opinion. And since he values being open and saying what's on your mind, I'm sure he's loving me secretly. Edit: But ok, my 'war' here is done. Everyone is the way they are, including Carlo, me, Nina or luckyfool. + Show Spoiler +
Have you ever met him IRL?
He is just like a normal italian, living emotions, what do you expect? I know him as a prudent person, he takes care of his "real friends", but does not like superficial people. I always enjoyed to work with him.
I Carlo enjoys Pokes as much as he did with BroodWar :D
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37024 Posts
I believe you are doing the right thing for you. Farewell ClouD. Thank you for everything.
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I appologize for being so poisonous in this thread, I take all back, and bless all, including myself. We're all humans.
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gl cloud, i was always rooting for you in bw
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On March 18 2013 17:01 aTnClouD wrote:
enjoy what we have while trying to make it better.
Nice read.
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this post made me very nostalgic
UltimateWeapon bless broodwar and its community
Godspeed into the rest of your life
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gl man, thanks for the games, you appear to have some incredible determination and no doubt you'll succeed in whatever you do
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GL HF and thanks for the GGs!
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I would like to say something important to the people who belong to this great community, with the hope some of you can take this as an advice and example for yourself. During these 10 years I experienced and said many things, I've started from being a complete newbie and became a world class player, I've been a fanboy and then someone who doesn't understand fans, I've said in public what I thought as bluntly as I could and I also learned the importance of being delicate in many situations. Being able to see things in all these different perspectives made me understand that people are all very similar and they all want the same things. And in fact even if there's someone we disrespect, if we were born from his parents and experiences the same things he did we would do exactly the same things as he/she does. This is why I don't think we shouldn't praise or condemn anyone, but rather try to promote a positive attitude towards what's good for everyone, and enjoy what we have while trying to make it better.
It's easy to get caught in the flow of what people think and their judgement and I ask the people here to think a bit more carefully before judging someone you don't know, because he/she is a person acting on own impulses and expectations like everybody else.
Happy retirement. I didn't like you a lot but this has been one of the amazing things I've read a human being write - in my whole life. And I certainly didn't expect it coming from you. Level up. Beyond Gaming. Farewell.
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Cloud, that was a great read. Your insight into your own life is really interesting in itself and honest. I think you are right in understanding what it means to follow your dreams and what passion means. It's hard, when you're at or near the top of a scene, to take a step back and look at yourself objectively and, though you don't know me (though I've been watching you ever so slightly since even before ToT), I am proud you for making the decision that's best for you. Well done, man.
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though i know you just from my visits in in krefeld, when dennis took us bowling once, and we only talked some words about music, i can say from that short time that you are a pleasant guy.
and thank you and goody for your rivalry, this was one of the best stories to remember in wings of liberty.
gl, hf, and never look back
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you inspired me when you were playing on ToT. I wish you best of luck for your future endeavours, and i hope you will occasionally visit the real game as a amateur and fan.
Your kind of attitude is admirable.
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Carlo ain't no pro no mo'. (
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On March 19 2013 00:22 P_e_X wrote:all i read: + Show Spoiler +huge penis now, no time for sc2 cuz too many bitches
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awww no :'( good luck in whatever you'll do!
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On April 29 2013 02:17 Thrill wrote:
Good riddance.
strong bump
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