EPTI agree completely with what you said and with that quote. Thanks.
Lionheart: Overcoming Stagnation - Page 2
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FLUFFNSTUFF
United States51 Posts
I agree completely with what you said and with that quote. Thanks. | ||
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FLUFFNSTUFF
United States51 Posts
On February 01 2013 15:08 theaxis12 wrote: I find your experience when you are not drafting to be very interesting. It makes me wonder if DOTA teams would be better served if they had a designated coach who did not play but selected heros in all of the drafts. If it could reduce stress on the players, and perhaps let them focus on their mechanics and execution more instead of theory crafting I could see it being a good system. What are your thoughts? I have never played at a competitive level so I wouldn’t know. Edit: forgot to thank you for the blog XD GOGO TL FIGHTING! I think coaches will be apart of the next era in competitive DotA 2. However, at the moment there aren't enough retired veterans with the experience to make it possible. It's also not financially viable for any real coaches yet or organizations to give them salary with the players. It'll happen, but for now it's up to the players. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 02 2013 04:59 Liquid`FLUFF wrote: I think coaches will be apart of the next era in competitive DotA 2. However, at the moment there aren't enough retired veterans with the experience to make it possible. It's also not financially viable for any real coaches yet or organizations to give them salary with the players. It'll happen, but for now it's up to the players. Thoughts on which players might do better as coaches than as players? *coughSyndereNcough* | ||
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Sinbu
United States39 Posts
Thanks for all your time | ||
PuroStrife
Korea (North)199 Posts
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AkalineMess
249 Posts
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T4NKie
United States3 Posts
This situation reminds me of your current state with Liquid, with a mix of old coL players + some new faces, it would seem that you guys have a great capacity to innovate, eventually though, that capacity will be lost. Navi's current struggles I think is a great example of this. Seeing them get dismantled by VP's NP, CW, Wisp, CK, Nyx strategy was very telling, VP was out-smarting them. Though Puppey is a great innovator, Navi's "Q" is too High right now. Of course the obvious solution of this strategy stagnation would be a roster change, but with so many other variables in DOTA, the most important being execution, it seems like a less than ideal solution. How do you then keep your roster intact, while keeping new ideas and strategies flowing? I'm not sure of the solution, but it's food for thought either way. http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/uzzi/ftp/uzzi's_research_papers/uzzi&spiroajs_smallworlds.pdf | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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FLUFFNSTUFF
United States51 Posts
On February 02 2013 06:19 Sinbu wrote: Fluff, I love your blog posts, and thank you for your time. Although you mentioned that execution in the game is more important than picks/bans, I was wondering if you could elaborate on how you form a team. Is it a predetermined idea based on your team's strengths? Do you have 2 or 3 ideal lineups, and draft based on the opposing team's strategy? If you have any insight, I'd love to hear it Thanks for all your time @Sinbu - By team, do you mean a group of 5 players or 5 hero picks (draft)? I'm just going to assume draft. In my mind, most of the time there should be some sort of idea, so you know which heroes are important to draft and to ban out early on. However, you should consider the style of your opponent to make sure that you're strategy is effective against theirs. It's a bit harder, paradoxically, to play versus teams that you're not familiar with compared to the top contenders. There really isn't such a thing as an "ideal" lineup, so much as an effective strategy against the opposing team. You can pick for your strategy based on what your perceived strengths are. For example, if you have a really talented carry player, you can pick really turtle heavy lineups and try, say, Keeper of the Light and Tinker to stall the games out. You could also pick to pressure your opponents by aiming to win as many lanes as possible. Usually people go offensive trilane versus abusable lanes (such as picking defenseless carries like spectre), followed by a counter-pick to their safe lane and usually mid is even. This gives you the option to take 3 lanes and then snowball past their strategy if you completely dominate. Empire is a good example of a team that runs this. I think having two or three diverse strategies are enough to take a LAN tournament or a tournament in general. Typically really solid strategies aren't fully figured out until after the events. It's a blog in of itself. Hopefully that's enough for now. | ||
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Otto von Bismarck
United States2 Posts
I found your swapping with 'TC interesting, too. But in hindsight, it's a great method to gain perspective, and avoid burn out, while also growing TC as a player (improving the overall team). It's a brilliant method, and I hope other teams do similar. Liquid Fighting! | ||
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snively
United States1159 Posts
yayy. :3 | ||
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thundertoss
United States1166 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
Regarding A: Nerdchills. Does that involve tears into the term, because I tend to cry from sheer happiness and empathic joy, when rewatching such things. Or is that just a sideeffect from the nerdchills? Rewatching past moments, have always been a recatalyst for me, when I have been jaded. Glad you pointed out this re-visiting of nerdchills. While I agree execution is more important than heroes, heroes are the extension of your strategy, and ability to adjust(important), due to said heroes. Avoiding predictability is another thing. I think you/team need to work some there, but feel free to disagree, as I probably have no idea what I am talking about. You are still gonna be at the very top of DotA 2 regardlessly, and I hope you in the warmth of TL will have continuity in practice schedules, and roster to secure that the performance pendulum doesn't get swung. I have absolutely no doubts of the success of this team, and have never even considered to have it, be it since Fire, or now in TL(even less). TL Hwaiting. | ||
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eSen1a
Australia1058 Posts
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Burns
United States2300 Posts
Whenever I lose my drive or lose sight of my vision, I watch the videos that remind me of why I will continue to sacrifice to reach my goals I cant be the only one watching this vid But after listening to you guys a little bit. I overheard you talking about needing an identity. You guys mentioned xboct, and how when navi puts him on naix they function well. They all play seamlessly as if the game plan is ingrained in them. The same with funnic on clinkz, its not just funnic that clicks when hes on clinkz, the entire team just gets in this rhythm and roll over teams that seem off beat. Thats one of the things that I feel might be missing from the TL team. TL needs an identity, a hero, or a playstyle that can give them the rhythm they need. For example, anyone remember this Korok on morphling, his team would just play out of their minds and you would get plays like this | ||
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Burns
United States2300 Posts
On February 02 2013 04:57 Liquid`FLUFF wrote: Holloworb, I totally forgot I was going to talk about how there are two models I understand at the moment. The first is that a team captain should ignore his teammates and work only to unify them under one idea (This is what I believed last year). The second is that the team captain should be hardened but open to everyone's ideas. I agree completely with what you said and with that quote. Thanks. I asked Korok the other day, what his thoughts on the different draft styles were. He told me that he had been on teams that did both the major styles of drafting.(captian/collective draft) His opinion was that its far better to let the captain draft, then to have the team discuss it. If the team discusses it, sure you get everyone's input, but you get bad ideas as well as good ideas and its not always easiest to pick out the best ideas from the pot. With that being said, he felt that if the captain has a solid game plan, that its then best from him to pick a draft that allows the team to carry out that plan, and not let differing opinions interfere with his plan. He also added that he would only input his thoughts if he felt you were being led into a trap. Im guessing that since the team operates with having you draft, would you agree with Korok. Also do you feel like the team would continue operating like that in the future, or do you see room for change in the way teams draft lineups? thanks for the blog btw | ||
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ssi.bal-listic
United States568 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
Just my thoughts though. Loved the blog, seriously inspirational and really thought provoking. Glad you're a part of the liquid community. | ||
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Sinbu
United States39 Posts
@Sinbu - By team, do you mean a group of 5 players or 5 hero picks (draft)? I'm just going to assume draft. In my mind, most of the time there should be some sort of idea, so you know which heroes are important to draft and to ban out early on. However, you should consider the style of your opponent to make sure that you're strategy is effective against theirs. It's a bit harder, paradoxically, to play versus teams that you're not familiar with compared to the top contenders. There really isn't such a thing as an "ideal" lineup, so much as an effective strategy against the opposing team. You can pick for your strategy based on what your perceived strengths are. For example, if you have a really talented carry player, you can pick really turtle heavy lineups and try, say, Keeper of the Light and Tinker to stall the games out. You could also pick to pressure your opponents by aiming to win as many lanes as possible. Usually people go offensive trilane versus abusable lanes (such as picking defenseless carries like spectre), followed by a counter-pick to their safe lane and usually mid is even. This gives you the option to take 3 lanes and then snowball past their strategy if you completely dominate. Empire is a good example of a team that runs this. I think having two or three diverse strategies are enough to take a LAN tournament or a tournament in general. Typically really solid strategies aren't fully figured out until after the events. It's a blog in of itself. Hopefully that's enough for now. Thanks for the response fluff. I did intend the group 5v5 with my question. It's hard to start randomly drafting with my friends, and they look to me to know what to ban and pick, especially with our skill levels. I really look forward to your future blogs. | ||
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