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Spoilers ahead.
I just want to say thank you to MC for being the first protoss I have seen on the professional level to use the composition that I have been saying is brutally hard for zerg to beat in the late game (I made the claims literally in march of last year). So many games I saw protoss going into the late game with a huge ball of stalkers against infestor/BL and they end up losing horribly if their archon toilet fails.
Finally, MC uses the composition that (imo) destroys BL/infestor: Mothership/Void/Archon/HT/Colossus (though he threw in a couple carriers for good measure). I always see casters and basically everybody saying that voids suck late game against zerg, and while it may be true without support it is not true with this composition. Every unit compliments each other pretty flawlessly.
The VR's and carriers and archons handle any corruptors easily (and I mean REALLY easily). With no corruptors, the VR's kill the BL's ridiculously fast. The HT protect the air with feedback and storm (can also help against BL's/corruptors). The colossus and archon also deal with broodlings, archon protect the colossus. The colossus has the range to deal with mass spines/spores. Then the final failsafe is vortex from the mothership.
It is THE perfect composition, not stalkers or chargelots or whatever else so many protoss choose to use lategame against zerg. MC executed the composition flawlessly, and he lost almost no units with it and completely annihilated Curious. I am sad it took protoss this long to use it, but glad that we got to see it before HotS.
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It doesn't hurt that infestors got 2 nerfs.
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What Iaguz said.
Skytoss is very difficult to transition to correctly, and one of the best weapons against Skytoss is massing the shit out of IT's. That strategy has been nerfed hugely with IT's being much less effective in the late-game where upgrades are at +3 carapace and likely +2 or +3 range attack as well. Thus it made Skytoss a lot better.
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deathball has always been good... The problem for toss is getting 4 bases to get to it.
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
really wouldn't have worked had infested terrans still gotten 3/3 upgrades, since they destroy protoss air. so the casters aren't wrong, haha.
glad that MC can play like so, though!
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Well no shit. In a vacuum of course that's a dream composition vs anything. Seriously. If you can get to that you are gonna destroy or at least have a chance to beat any late game army, no matter what race.
You come off like this was some great secret that only you knew about and that all the pro's are fools for not using it sooner.
But starcraft, as you should very well know, doesn't work like that. The composition you are talking about requires T3 from not 1, not 2 but 3 different tech paths. Compare that to zergs. They can get broodlord infestor at 15-16 min basically every time in 2 very compatible tech paths. And you need Colossus/stalker to hit a timing while those are popping or before they get a critical mass. If they see you going this they just make mass corruptor/infestor with lings and LOL as you die. It can only be reached in super late game and even then you have to build towards it slowly.
You could have made this same post about Terran. "OMG! I've been saying since beta that late game Terran is super overpowered if you do it right! Like i have no idea why pro's haven't been going mass thor/battlecruiser with ghost support. It crushes everything you throw at it, assuming decent control/engagements. I see pro's going bio and losing to storms/colossi/infestors when they should be doing this. I'm glad we saw MVP almost pull it off vs squirtle. That proves everything I said is true and viable and hopefully we see more of it in HotS."
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Not only does that comp take an exorbitant amount of time to create and micro, it is infeasible if it ever became mainstream. Zerg would just hit with a roach max and kill a toss they see going all 3 paths. Seriously, that seems ridiculously tempermental as a game path goes.
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IT 3/3 nerf is a huge help.
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On January 27 2013 08:55 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
IT 3/3 nerf is a huge help.
Not really, armor doesnt play much of a factor because storm does most of the damage. The weapons change helps if you screw up and get everything fungaled though.
On January 27 2013 06:35 Akamu wrote:
Well no shit. In a vacuum of course that's a dream composition vs anything. Seriously. If you can get to that you are gonna destroy or at least have a chance to beat any late game army, no matter what race.
You come off like this was some great secret that only you knew about and that all the pro's are fools for not using it sooner.
But starcraft, as you should very well know, doesn't work like that. The composition you are talking about requires T3 from not 1, not 2 but 3 different tech paths. Compare that to zergs. They can get broodlord infestor at 15-16 min basically every time in 2 very compatible tech paths. And you need Colossus/stalker to hit a timing while those are popping or before they get a critical mass. If they see you going this they just make mass corruptor/infestor with lings and LOL as you die. It can only be reached in super late game and even then you have to build towards it slowly.
You could have made this same post about Terran. "OMG! I've been saying since beta that late game Terran is super overpowered if you do it right! Like i have no idea why pro's haven't been going mass thor/battlecruiser with ghost support. It crushes everything you throw at it, assuming decent control/engagements. I see pro's going bio and losing to storms/colossi/infestors when they should be doing this. I'm glad we saw MVP almost pull it off vs squirtle. That proves everything I said is true and viable and hopefully we see more of it in HotS."
You dont need colossus/stalker to hit a timing while those are popping. Every game is obviously different, but I am just saying that this composition should always be the end goal. So many times we see protoss make a bunch of gateways and just keep making stalkers though, which isnt what they should be doing. They should be replacing stalkers with voids/carriers and working up to it.
Also, you tell me that its a dream composition vs anything, but most people say (including the casters) that it sucks because voids dont work, even though they work fantastically.
PS: Didnt thor/bc with ghost support lose against squirtle? I seem to remember an archon toilet with HT's using mass feedback and them getting destroyed pretty quickly. Or was this a different game? Been so long :S
EDIT: BTW, I believe the unit compositions are of similar cost.
Total army costs from the game:
P 7750minerals 7550 gas
Z 7700 minerals, 7250 gas
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Imo. Infestors still extremely strong caster unit.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
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I don't understand why Toss has to use such a micro-intensive strategy (controlling multiple units that have very distinct roles) to beat a strategy that involves pressing F and splitting...
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On January 28 2013 05:23 cDgCorazon wrote:
I don't understand why Toss has to use such a micro-intensive strategy (controlling multiple units that have very distinct roles) to beat a strategy that involves pressing F and splitting...
It isnt micro intensive, it is patience intensive. Keep mothership in the back, attack with carriers/colossus, storm/feedback when necessary.
Both sides are equally micro intensive basically, in this situation. You just see it that way because you play protoss. If you want to complain about micro intensive, look at terran with bio. Or even just earlier in the game with protoss when you are relying on forcefields. That is more micro intensive than this, imo.
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after a prehive timing i take a fourth and throw down a stargate a second cyber core and start getting upgrades. I also get two forges in the early game and upgrade attack and shield.
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EPT
