|
On January 15 2013 04:31 DerNebel wrote:
The point made here is the same thing that caused me to stop playing and watching SC2. I simply don't feel the game in the same way that I felt Brood War and Dota is partially recreating. I really wanted eSports to grow huge, but to have a sport you need a game, and SC2 simply isn't that game for me. It simply isn't designed for fun, it's designed for competition.
So I left.
I uninstalled SC2, I stopped watching dailies, I stopped following tournaments and I didn't care about builds or trends anymore. Every single one of these things had grown stale and impotent with the release of Wings of Liberty. Everything I'd loved about the Brood War scene faded into a sort of android wild west, where every face was the same and the games were balanced on who pulled the trigger first. The saloons felt devoid of life, since everyone was crying the same thing, "ESPORTS! ESPORTS!", oblivious of the eSports we were losing. For me, TL.net became the most populated desert I have ever seen. Day[9] was trying to make good of Starcraft 2, but everyone was just one-base rushing. Why would we give all of that up? The 2012 awards speak the truth for those willing to hear: There is no "Most creative player" or "Most revolutionary player" awards. Chew on that. Properly chew that bit of information into smaller bits and properly digest it. What does that mean to you?
I still jump unto TL once or twice a month, but it's really just for nostalgia. The game is gone, lost in catering to "competitive" players and in rabid drama and eSports hyperbole. I play dota now. We, me and my friends, we love the game, because it is fun like Brood War was fun, because we don't get lost in competition and intimidating 'ladder anxiety'. Because the game feels right to play, like Brood War did.
Because that's what did it, wasn't it? Brood War felt really good to play. Even though you spent so much time learning to even control the game properly, it was all worth it. It was worth it because it took time and because when you did it right, it felt right.
Starcraft 2 failed to replicate that feeling and that was, in my opinion, why it will never be a true sequel to Brood War.
this.
and the blog is awesome. 5/5
|
someone mentioned it before, but I've been thinking about how to elaborate on what they said. sorry if there are any grammatical errors in the following, typing on an iPad isn't as easy as Apple would like us to believe.
Teamliquid.net as well as Reddit do an invaluable service to the community, but as OP post suggests, the talk about e-sports, the structure and the constant drama ( Jessica and SlayerS, Slasher and Garfield etc) has a tendency to envelope the creative aspect behind the e-sport entity, I.e the playmakers, the build refiners. I think, as someone mentioned that a lot of the smaller communities, for instance SC2sea are still in a habit of showing their love for the game. But I think this is primarily because, and I may be wrong, there is still a strong tendency within the SEA community to grow there grassroot community and foster sub-communities within that. Clans are still a massive part of SEA with weekly tournaments, but it isn't necessarily about the money or the glimmer of fame, but primarily about a group of guys and gals who just want to have fun and play SC2.
I want to perhaps put something forward that may be controversial, or not, it may just seem weird to people. But what if we left teamliquid.net and Reddit to the big things. The e-sports agenda, the drama. a little drama is always a lot of fun. Lets foster grassroots play. The love of the game begins at the very start, and this is I think about smaller communities such as those over at SC2sea. The Big teams aren't gonna foster the growth of the love of the game, they want to foster the worth of e-sports. it's up to us, the average player, the Joe Schmo of SC2 to foster that love for the game. We all have it, We all have a love for e-sports as well.
How do we do this? I agree with Torte about the over saturation of tournaments. last Novemeber was insane for how many hours of Starcraft I watched...and frankly I got a little bit sick of it. it was trying to watch so much. But when late December hit, I logged on to the SEA server and found myself in the mGG clan channel and being in that close knit community helped me love the game again, I still watch a lot of e-sports, but I also play a lot more. I think fostering these smaller communities will help at 'love for the game' it will help foster map-makers and strategists. it will also help build the foundations of e-sports in general.
I think this has been majorly forgotten by the 'boys club' ( whatever that may imply) of e-sports. hey seem to have forgotten that there are a lot more then just the 100-150+ progamers we here about every week.
Not sure If Im making much sense, it's late, really stinking hot and Im quite sick and sore. But I guess, in a long winded way of saying it is that I agree with OP. The question becomes how do we foster both the love of the game and e-sports. and I think, referencing the debate between Torte and I on whether e-sports can be understood as a sport, we can learn from "traditional sports" about how to foster community growth at both ends of the spectrum. at the low end you focus on the game, the love of it etc, at the higher end, progamers, teams, e-sports in general.
|
Awesome blog 5/5
I reckon myself in a lot of posts written here. I was a huge fan of BW and WC3, and of course when Starcraft II came out I made the transition. In the beginning it was all fun and recreating, there was the amazing rise of eSport with tournaments everywhere, streams, Day[9] and so on. But, a few months after the initial hype, I just felt that it was not what I had expected from the game. It felt cold and mechanical. It was like being drown in a too huge community, too many streams, too many tournaments, too many players to follow, and finally not that much fun. The magic of BW or WC3 was not there.
Some days, I think that it's not that much the fact that Starcraft 2 has been pushed too far and too quickly to be a great eSport, or the gameplay, or skill level. It is more that I am nostalgic of an era that has ended.
As far as I am concerned, BW was fun because I had these games all night long with my friends, these games on unbalanced non-symmetric maps with funky builds/strats and shifting alliances. Yes, these games were shitty, unbalanced, whatever ! No one cared because they were fun. Not to mention that at this time, playing Broodwar with friends or going to a tournament often require to move the family computer to a friend's house. The Broodwar weekend was some kind of expedition and it was part of the fun.
Watching the pro-scene was also different. No streams, very few replays on Youtube, watching the koreans playing live or even watching replays was something rare and exceptional. And these players were like legendary to us. I remember when I got an autograph from Stork, I almost peed my pants.
Furthermore playing games like BW or WC3 was not that common. The community was smaller and it was easier to feel a bit special. Even being the leader of a small team or clan, it already felt like you were contributing to something.
Well, I am afraid that I grew up and so did the community. Nowadays, I don't feel that special being a SC2 player. Just everyone plays video games and is part of one or several on-line communities.
With streams and replays everywhere and the over-abundance of tournaments, the progamers have lost a bit of their magic, there are just progamersand good games everywhere.
Whenever I play SC2 I feel compelled to play good games, with the right mechanics and build, and to win. And yes I feel ladder anxiety, which is mostly why I stopped playing. Team games with friends are not the same neither with everyone in its own house and all the maps looking more or less the same.
Don't misunderstand me, I still love SC2 and the community a lot ! It is just that it is not the same. Fortunately, I still have a lot of fun going to live event and watching awesome games live with other people (and not alone in front of my computer). And this is possible thanks to the awesome TL community.
|
I could not agree with the original post more.
|
I always felt that this was a symptom of the fact the game was made to be an esport first and fun second....browder basically said as much.
|
I agree with this, and this is why I steer clear of the drama threads and watch the vast majority of my SC2 content completely away from the opinions of other people. I'm sure I lose something by doing this, but I feel like I gain more. I don't need to hear/read infestor OP for the 100th time. I don't need some 14 year old gold player's critique on what a player did wrong. It is worthless information to me, and it is almost always negative.
It is always easy to denigrate and jump on the band wagon about what is wrong with SC2, esports, etc. etc. However, in my little bubble my enjoyment of the game (watching and playing) has hardly diminished since WoL beta. I still get excited when I see great plays, clutch micro, or bizarre/new builds. I don't give two shits about esports, the future of the game, or what the latest drama thread on reddit is. I just enjoy watching and playing the game. And I like it that way.
|
to the op: wow. You've really gotten to something here, and thanks for letting it out. Great read and great thoughts.
|
Can you link or name that Tetris documentary? Sounds pretty cool.
edit:
Is it called Ecstasy of Order? You can watch it free here (hulu, so US only i guess) http://www.hulu.com/watch/429491
|
Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb kept saying how he enjoyed SC2 in beta and I related to him a lot and his reviews. So I started playing SC2 right when it came out and dove in pretty deep. I remember those first magical days when I slowly discovered Artosis and Tasteless on the GSL, buying my first TV at age 31(I haven't had cable in over 10 years, by choice) and watching the GSL every day before work. For about 2 years I was knee deep is SC2 and I still come to TL every day.
Really the hardest part has been the community as it slowly turned on SC2, the professional players, and Blizzard. In the beginning, it was awesome that we could be so close to the players and the community was so involved with events. That Sundance and MGL showed us their new sat-truck right after Dallas. But slowly the empowered community learned how much damage it could do with this and everyone has had to pull back over the dumbest things and it has slowly pushed me away from SC2. SotG went stopped being a regular show as the community chased all the hosts off air. It seems like we have to hunt so hard just to find anyone who is excited about SC2 any more, yet every barcraft I go to, people are pumped for the next game. Its amost like TL housed a loud minority that only wanted to see SC2 die so they could be right.
I have been dabbling in LoL with a group of friends(mostly married couples, all who have super limited time). We all have a ton of fun and we enjoy watching SC2 and LoL. Still, I long to dive in deep again when HotS comes out.
|
I expanded on my thoughts above in the general section. It was a rush job so excuse the wording and overall style. But I think it comes down to the problem that Heyoka describes.
|
Put into words the feelings I've had over the last few years. I am one of those who could never quit playing Brood War even though I tried many times to stop.
I can't even stop reading about Starcraft 2 tournaments even though I have hardly played since release and don't enjoy the game at all. I miss the game of Brood War and TL.net is one of my few bookmarks so I still visit.
With the Brood War community being so small there was a legitimate, decade long struggle to have our favorite game validated by the gaming community and I believe that we succeeded. However, SC2 has seen so much validation yet it's not as excellent of a game. Kind of a shame but not surprising. The BW community has a history of being largely ignored by the mainstream gaming community yet respected as among the best of them all.
BW fans are passionate about the game, first and foremost. You had to back yourself up after someone disagreed and asked, "1v1?" In SC2 it seems like anyone with a microphone and a webcam is spouting their inane opinions and because they don't have a strong knowledge of the game then they fill up their time with drama drivel. Esports itself is the centerpiece and it's part of our post modern dilemma. This problem is not unique to esports.
|
On January 20 2013 23:07 seaofsaturn wrote:Can you link or name that Tetris documentary? Sounds pretty cool. edit: Is it called Ecstasy of Order? You can watch it free here (hulu, so US only i guess) http://www.hulu.com/watch/429491
Yes it is the Ecstasy of Order.
To anyone else else interested in watching these kinds of documentaries, here's another one about EG's Justin Wong.
|
On January 16 2013 08:46 Elroi wrote:
This was a very good read.
I watch Starcraft 2 every week-end. Personally, I love the KeSPA teams and players. I love Proleague. I really like big parts of this community... But I can't say that I like SC2 that much. All I like about it comes from BW. It is quite frustrating in a way.
So I guess that what I like, now, is really esports rather than Starcraft. Watching the players I like compete. I mean, if Jaedong started doing figure skating, I would start watching that too... But I wonder if I will ever see more in SC2, as a game, than the thing that killed my favorite past time.
Agree especially with the points in bold. I keep coming back to Proleague because I want to see how my favorite players are doing. I keep watching their wins and losses to see the high-fives and the doom zooms and the cheering and the rivalries. I do enjoy still enjoy it --- I enjoy a SC2 game where my guy wins, mainly because of nostalgia but partly because there are some fun things in SC2. But my personal feeling is that the spark and the substance is gone, and that Proleague is only a shadow of itself.
|
If I might offer my perspective-
As someone who never participated in Broodwar but has loved SC2 since its beginning, I can say that my involvement is not only from a love of the game and a love of the RTS genre. My love of SC2 comes not only from the intensely competitive aspect, but also from the community. I'm not going to drop names but I think we all know some community personalities that help shape the game and the way people view it.
In my personal opinion, Starcraft 2 is one of the most, if not THE most, competitive games alive today. I think it is exactly because of that fact that we see so much negativity in the community, because people are so passionate about this game.
Regardless of how people interact, or discuss esports, or share their views in a positive or negative light, it all boils down to one thing- Passion. Love of the game. I see a lot of negativity on TL, but also a lot of positivity. But on both ends of the spectrum, there is pure passion. No one would spend all day every day arguing on forums or letting a video game affect their daily lives or attitude unless they were really passionate about it. And that is the way I feel. Whether people spend they're time being negative or positive, the shared theme is passion.
|
|
|
Great post. My interest in the scene has been declining lately which Ive really been bummed out about. I think I just need to find my love for SC2 again.
|
On January 12 2013 07:31 SKC wrote:
People should try doing what they like instead of trying to like what they think they should do. Perhaps then they would care less about things not being how they would like them to be and perhaps even care less about what other people liked.
this rings the truth!
|
I love this post. The incessant talk of esports and not of the game drove me away from the scene. I loved reading the long drawn out descriptions of particular games and particular matchsets that were posted after tournaments. I loved listening to Artosis and Day9 turn macro games into both comedy and dramatic suspense. I still find it amazing how such a riveting story can grow from something like a competitive video game. Stories often blessed with personality in both the casters and players.
|
can this be starred for... ever?
|
On January 12 2013 07:31 SKC wrote:
People should try doing what they like instead of trying to like what they think they should do. Perhaps then they would care less about things not being how they would like them to be and perhaps even care less about what other people liked.
Poetry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
