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It's all about Proleague for me now.
There's just too many games in GSL. It feels like a grind to watch and there is no sense of progression. The format created by an airport traffic controller certainly doesn't help with that.
In Proleague every game matters and it's easier to keep up. There's fantasy league which helps a lot to create context for the games.
The brand of Starcraft played is a lot more fun to me, too. In GSL there is too much FOTM spam with every game being the same. With less games overall (Proleague) there's also more space to surprise an opponent (and the audience, incidentally, which is a good thing.)
With innovative maps you get to see how people interpret the terrain. Bifrost has been incredibly fun so far. Arkanoid having very curious developments sometimes.
I also like Whiplash/SNM because they are clearly invested into every game they are casting. They also have less grating personalities than the GSL casters. I needed a break from the art of the tasteless muscle wolf... They are such a goofy bunch that it's nice to have casters that breathe air and drink water u know.
Not to mention the price, omg.
* I am not affiliated with Gretech or KeSPA/IEG or anything relating to e-sports. *
 
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Hm, it seems weird to me that so many people either love Proleague or GSL instead of just loving both.
I love to see Proleague and support a team (STX Soul in my case) even though I don't even know all of their players but if one of those to me completely unknown guys wins for the team then I am happy.
But I also love to watch GSL and support individual players. The production of both leagues is great. I prefer the GSL casters for now but I can also listen to the Proleague guys.
Both leagues have their strengths and weaknesses and I will keep watching and supporting both.
Edit: I wrote this because a lot of people seem to love one league and hate on the other. If you just prefer one league, that's fine.
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I try to watch both when I have time, but I usually prefer the GSL because it's on at better times and I feel like the games are better most of the time. Also, there are a lot of players I really like playing in it and I know them much better because of their longer history in SC2. Plus I prefer the observing and the casting in GSL and they're much more connected with the foreign community.
I don't really think GSL is particularly hard to keep up with but we're comparing an individual league with a team league here. I can see why you watch Proleague over GSL, but I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning.
And it's entirely possible to enjoy both, I'd like it better if people just watched the matches without feeling the need to take sides in an imagined conflict or something, but if you find the GSL grating, that's probably a logical progression.
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Proleague feels more like a battle to me, like these teams are going to war against each other. It's the same format as GSTL I guess but I haven't had any interest in that since MMA was the mvp. Dunno why though. And the Up and Downs was like 15 games today. No thanks
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The last 3 months were special for the GSL tho, they had to play a whole season in a limited time, and now the up and downs are back so it's a lot of games, but soon they'll recover their usual, slower paced schedule.
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On January 10 2013 22:31 Fyodor wrote:
There's just too many games in GSL. It feels like a grind to watch and there is no sense of progression. The format created by an airport traffic controller certainly doesn't help with that.
Care to explain that? Just curious what you meant...
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I'm still loving GSL. However, PL (along with the fantasy league on TL) really makes an interesting dynamic. I'll be honest, I don't really care who wins PL (they way I care who wins GSL) but I'm much more interested in seeing the strategies used in PL (partially because of the team format - both in and out of the game). I think GSL (and all other tournaments) would benefit a lot with having a few new and innovative maps.
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You can love both lol. I haven't watched GSL much, the problem for me is the GOM player and the fact that I could never set it up correctly and even when I emailed them for tech support, it never worked correctly for the free stream. I wish they would do it on twitch again, I liked that a lot. Otherwise I would watch more GSL. The issue with proleague for me is that, even thought the players are good, the level of play on average is like giving players a modern meta with play that is like that of 2 years ago almost in game knowledge. I love PL, but it is just frustrating sometimes I have to say.
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Only reason why I've given up watching GSL, is due to having to pay to get even a moderately decent quality stream. Proleague's 360p is just that much better. Maybe someday, when I'll get some money, I'll be able to enjoy GSL...
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Haven't been watching GSL much in 2012, won't be watching it much 2013. Tastosis is a treat but at least last year there was enough of them at foreign events (IPL5 stands out as best event all time, too bad about the ZvZ mirrors).
Paying the $5 for PL, playing FPL and watching a LOT of it though. Absolutely the most interesting form of starcraft, using both standard and all-kill formats as separate rounds is genius, they're really doing everything right as far as the games are concerned.
Thorzain getting MVP for R1 and these foreign casters make me question whether KeSPA realizes how big this could be though.
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On January 11 2013 00:00 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 22:31 Fyodor wrote:
There's just too many games in GSL. It feels like a grind to watch and there is no sense of progression. The format created by an airport traffic controller certainly doesn't help with that.
Care to explain that? Just curious what you meant...
I just mean it's complicated and hard to follow.
When it gets to RO8 and RO4 Code S I'm like ok there are eight players now and have no idea where they came from.
I used to be able to recite the rules of it but now I lost track. Especially with that Wild Card group... fuck me...
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I love Proleague and I love GSL. Proleague for the backstory, the developing player stories and rivalries, seeing who will be the KeSPA kingpin as we head into HOTS, and all the things that come with Proleague. Different maps, different players, different playstyles, different attitudes.
I watch GSL for its quality. Wolfdor / Tastosis are both, in my opinion, currently superior to the Proleague casters; and the games in the GS(T)L (particularly Code S) are of higher quality. There are regularly games where players stun me with how good they are, and while that happens in Proleague as well, it doesn't happen nearly as often.
And also, Life plays in the GSL.
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In the beginning of the current proleague season, it was the same to me, but right now i watch GSL again, when ever it is live, it´s just a completely different style, PL is about the teams and a lot of mindgames because its only 1 map each player plays (atleast it was so in round1), but GSL is about the individuals, which gives it a completely different drama potential, when a player loses in Proleague his temamates are still able to secure the win, but when a palyer drops out of code s or a it´s so hard for him to comeback nad every game counts more for the players and that´s what i enjoy about GSL these days, btu i watch both if i see that they are live, but i won´t check any VOD´s and i have no pass for any of them.
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Both are good, they are completely different styles of presentation though. GSL has ridiculously high level games, while Proleague is much more developed personality-wise and the team-format is fun.
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On January 11 2013 01:21 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 00:00 Dirkzor wrote:On January 10 2013 22:31 Fyodor wrote:
There's just too many games in GSL. It feels like a grind to watch and there is no sense of progression. The format created by an airport traffic controller certainly doesn't help with that.
Care to explain that? Just curious what you meant... I just mean it's complicated and hard to follow. When it gets to RO8 and RO4 Code S I'm like ok there are eight players now and have no idea where they came from. I used to be able to recite the rules of it but now I lost track. Especially with that Wild Card group... fuck me...
It was the airport (Air traffic?) traffic controller comment that I stumpled upon.. being one myself... =) Rules for being an air traffic controller are far more complicated and fucked up then anything GSL can come up with
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On January 11 2013 01:21 Fyodor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 00:00 Dirkzor wrote:On January 10 2013 22:31 Fyodor wrote:
There's just too many games in GSL. It feels like a grind to watch and there is no sense of progression. The format created by an airport traffic controller certainly doesn't help with that.
Care to explain that? Just curious what you meant... I just mean it's complicated and hard to follow. When it gets to RO8 and RO4 Code S I'm like ok there are eight players now and have no idea where they came from. I used to be able to recite the rules of it but now I lost track. Especially with that Wild Card group... fuck me...
From two successive group stages, I mean, it's not that hard, like half of all foreign tournaments started to use the same format, you see it everywhere.
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I watch GSL only from the ro16 and on. I basically did the same with OSL and whatnot. I don't usually have time to watch all the matches anyway. Proleague I only watch the teams that I like (such as KT, SKT1, EG-TL ... Hwaseung Oz).
It's not that one is better than the other, but yeah, time is limited, unfortunately (although I have some free time now :D)
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My only problem with GSL is that the GOMTV Players free quality is so terrible its not even funny.. its barely 240p <.<
the one Proleague offers, 360p on twitch is way better and you can acutally understand whats going on without listening to commentators
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On January 11 2013 02:25 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 01:21 Fyodor wrote:On January 11 2013 00:00 Dirkzor wrote:On January 10 2013 22:31 Fyodor wrote:
There's just too many games in GSL. It feels like a grind to watch and there is no sense of progression. The format created by an airport traffic controller certainly doesn't help with that.
Care to explain that? Just curious what you meant... I just mean it's complicated and hard to follow. When it gets to RO8 and RO4 Code S I'm like ok there are eight players now and have no idea where they came from. I used to be able to recite the rules of it but now I lost track. Especially with that Wild Card group... fuck me... From two successive group stages, I mean, it's not that hard, like half of all foreign tournaments started to use the same format, you see it everywhere.
I know it's not that complicated.
The dumb thing is that it doesn't need to be this complicated. Doesn't help that it keeps changing and that GomTV do a terrible job of giving you an overview of the tournament. They just tell you who's playing that night and their code x level before the season. In MLG, for example, it's pretty easy to trace a player's journey with the awesome bracket page.
Up and Downs is pretty unwatchable. You see a list of players and if you want to watch a player then... over the course of 4 hours he might play once in a while.
I'm not the first person to complain about this.
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Been an avid day-one follower of GSL and I found myself caring for and watching it a lot less, for a couple of reason. Firsty about the time slot. I work a normal 9 to 5, Mon to Fri so I would miss half of the broadcast of GSL which starts at 4.10pm. As tired as I am, the continuously reduced quality and 2013 technology newly flash-based unbearable lag really add more pain.
Today group looks kinda interesting with some I rooted for (fanta, center, Nestea), some I root against (Huk) but watching those games on terribad stream AND repetitive maps which are basically clone of each others really discourage me from watching. Dont get me wrong. I have enjoyed GSL since October 2010 regardless of stream quality (fyi online payment here is kinda complicated so I didnt get to purchase HQ) but as for right now, it's just one reason after another that make me care really less. And then, Proleague just happens to address every single issue that I have with the GSL, from maps, players, timeslot, stream, vods, excitement, everything. Yay!
I admit Im a lil bit pro-KeSPA league here but imo thats pretty much what many people feel over the last two months
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France12873 Posts
I like both. I'm on holidays so I can watch the GSL but I only got free stream so the quality is a bit painful. The fantasy league is what really brought me into watching proleague games, as well as the cool number of very good terrans (Flash, FanTaSy and Speed). But yeah the FPL is what makes me watch PvZ, ZvZ and stuff even though I dislike the match-up, so it's a lot of fun when I can catch the 2nd match of the day early in the morning!
GSL has good production value and a lot of my favorite players play there so it's a big bonus, the only problem for me is that free stream and the no vod when I can't catch it live.
Why not watch both, they are both amazing doing their own thing, one is a league (team focused) and the other is a championship, individually oriented.
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I watch almost only proleague. With proleague I can easily follow since there are not that many matches + there is FPL. I can see every vod easily on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV/videos?view=0) and pick what I want to watch. I can't watch GSL live and don't want to pay for vods when I won't watch even 10% of the content.
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You are discounting all the "work" that GSL did. Proleague has the great benefit of arriving on the scene with healthy viewership prospects and 2+ years of metagame and map development underpinning the inherent value of the game as a spectator experience. The kespa players get to jump into a game where all the boring or degenerate things have been mostly left behind, and come to an environment where there is a lot of accepted conventional wisdom to exploit. When something "new" happens in a game with a kespa player, it's actually interesting because the metagame is evolved enough for it to be something more than just "derp, we figured out the latest timing". Do you see how this is different than previous eras of something "new" happening? The same goes for the maps. Admittedly, the foreigner tournaments and pro scene also contributed, but honestly I doubt anyone would say GSL wasn't the frontrunner and flagbearer.
Nevertheless, proleague does have a great format. ^^
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Out of Korean leagues I prefer the Proleague format without a doubt. GSL creates a more gripping story, as a single player makes a run for the cup than what I have seen in Team vs. Team, but that could change for me. Personally I prefer watching foreign Starcraft, I am probably in the minority there though.
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10387 Posts
I feel like GSL and most other SC2 tournaments have this mentality they need to pump out as much content as possible, leading to ridiculous marathon broadcasts that very few people actually/can want to sit through. More is not always good ~_~
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I like the fact that Proleague is mixing up the map pool (though its got some terrible maps) over GOM, but apart from that, GSL >> Proleague imo, better games, better production, better casting.
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GSL games are meaningless, there are too many of them. If you win a GSL nobody will even care in a few months, whereas winning an OSL or leading a team to a proleague championship cements you in Starcraft history. Plus the format is confusing as hell. I'd rather have them format it like the starleagues, 32 players make it through the qualifiers. Winner takes all, no wildcards, no codes. 3 GSLs a year, max. Introduce new maps.
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I have always favoured Proleague over starleague/gsl. Nothing feels better than watching KT 4-0 sweep over SKT and Bisu tears is like icing on the cake.
The doom-zoom on player's faces are epic too on the Kespa broadcast
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It kind of bothers me how fucking little Tastosis cast. It's really making me completely tune out the GSL. I bought into the GSL for the great games and the great casting, 50% ain't doin it for me.
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I'll be honest, I actually really dig the Pro-League Format, and there's a lot of really cool games being played there and the maps add a layer of that extra something that makes the tournament even more entertaining.
That said. Until they find a pair of casters that don't make me permanently mute the stream I will not watch it regularly. They are that bad that they keep me from watching the tournament just as Gretorp keeps me from watching NASL.
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EPT
