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I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there.
  
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you are right with this, ive nearly come to stop posting at all on this site as noone seems to actually read your posts properly, picks a 1 word line and then argue that and ignore or dont listen to the rest. So here i am actually posting as i understand totally what you are saying. When i ask a question i dont feel its properly answered, but when i answer as plat league player i can fully explain and give a workable solution, of course it may not be masters explanation but i can give a good enough explanation suggest how i think a game was lost and give them something to look at and link 10 replays where this exact same thing happens
I too was playing against diamonds in my silver-gold leagues and then i started to tail off and now i think im settled in my gold/plat league as im winning 50% of my games. this i dont mind. Constantly my league gets refered to as trash i simply have no clue on the game
No you dont have the DK effect as you have to win sooooo many games with good SQ and army value vs minerals its difficult to get into new leagues if you are in or around the top bottom of the next one
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On December 19 2012 05:01 StatixEx wrote:
you are right with this, ive nearly come to stop posting at all on this site as noone seems to actually read your posts properly, picks a 1 word line and then argue that and ignore or dont listen to the rest. So here i am actually posting as i understand totally what you are saying. When i ask a question i dont feel its properly answered, but when i answer as plat league player i can fully explain and give a workable solution, of course it may not be masters explanation but i can give a good enough explanation suggest how i think a game was lost and give them something to look at and link 10 replays where this exact same thing happens
I too was playing against diamonds in my silver-gold leagues and then i started to tail off and now i think im settled in my gold/plat league as im winning 50% of my games. this i dont mind. Constantly my league gets refered to as trash i simply have no clue on the game
No you dont have the DK effect as you have to win sooooo many games with good SQ and army value vs minerals its difficult to get into new leagues
I do if I act like I should be better than everybody else and look down heavily upon anyone I lose to. And if I refuse to look at my lost games, let alone in a serious light.
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Well, atleast you realized. After 2k games that you were awful. This is the first step towards improvement. And you indeed suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect.
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On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there.
See, that's part of your problem. It *is* still true, and you shouldn't buy into garbage buzzwords like "fleshed-out metagame." The only thing that's changed in two years is that more people in lower leagues have refined 1 or 2 builds that they can execute half-decently (at least for 10 game minutes). The average player hasn't gotten much better at macro, micro, scouting, or reacting. Way too many people neglect training those fundamental skills and instead chase after the latest killer unit combo, unstoppable timing attack, or whatever. That's how you end up playing 3k games in plat.
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On December 19 2012 05:18 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there. See, that's part of your problem. It *is* still true, and you shouldn't buy into garbage buzzwords like "fleshed-out metagame." The only thing that's changed in two years is that more people in lower leagues have refined 1 or 2 builds that they can execute half-decently (at least for 10 game minutes). The average player hasn't gotten much better at macro, micro, scouting, or reacting. Way too many people neglect training those fundamental skills and instead chase after the latest killer unit combo, unstoppable timing attack, or whatever. That's how you end up playing 3k games in plat.
I'm pretty sure with a ranking system that ranks the top percentile of the active playerbase, this is no longer the case. Master League is the top 2% of the active playerbase, Diamond League is the top 20% - top 2% bracket, Platinum League is top 40% - top 20% and vice versa. If more players get half-decent by doing the same shit that the pros do all the time, even if just that then the skill ceiling rises. Fact.
It's like how the League of Legends metagame evolved the use of some champions, not by pros but by people copying the pros. It's like Mvp's TvZ mech build. Once he sussed out how to use it properly in a pro-gaming setting, won an IEM with it, and even saw its use in other matches like MajOr vs Life in TSL4 Ro32... that build become much more popular.
The game is no longer this "Make more units than your opponent" meta. Yes, you can fail outright if you get supply block but let's assume more players adapt and stop missing supply blockages. What the fuck now?
It's like the 7 gate immortal sentry timing. If many pros cannot even stop it once scouted then what's stopping a player in a lower league from refining the build - this one build - and using it in PvZ? Yes, his version will undoubtedly have less game knowledge and somewhat less refinement than say.... Parting's, but unless he makes a critical error like.... not scouting a 2 base muta straight-out-of-fucking-nowhere transition, or a massive micro blunder, he will win the game.
If Jaedong - a former legend-killer in Brood War - cannot defeat a 2 base sentry immortal timing (look at his SPL game against KT Rolster) then how is a master leaguer meant to hold a slightly less refined version?
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On December 19 2012 05:20 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 05:18 ShadowDrgn wrote:On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there. See, that's part of your problem. It *is* still true, and you shouldn't buy into garbage buzzwords like "fleshed-out metagame." The only thing that's changed in two years is that more people in lower leagues have refined 1 or 2 builds that they can execute half-decently (at least for 10 game minutes). The average player hasn't gotten much better at macro, micro, scouting, or reacting. Way too many people neglect training those fundamental skills and instead chase after the latest killer unit combo, unstoppable timing attack, or whatever. That's how you end up playing 3k games in plat. I'm pretty sure with a ranking system that ranks the top percentile of the active playerbase, this is no longer the case. Master League is the top 2% of the active playerbase, Diamond League is the top 20% - top 2% bracket, Platinum League is top 40% - top 20% and vice versa. If more players get half-decent by doing the same shit that the pros do all the time, even if just that then the skill ceiling rises. Fact. The game is no longer this "Make more units than your opponent" meta. Yes, you can fail outright if you get supply block but let's assume more players adapt and stop missing supply blockages. What the fuck now? It's like the 7 gate immortal sentry timing. If many pros cannot even stop it once scouted then what's stopping a player in a lower league from refining the build - this one build - and using it in PvZ? Yes, his version will undoubtedly have less game knowledge and somewhat less refinement than say.... Parting's, but unless he makes a critical error like.... not scouting a 2 base muta straight-out-of-fucking-nowhere transition, or a massive micro blunder, he will win the game. If Jaedong - a former legend-killer in Brood War - cannot defeat a 2 base sentry immortal timing (look at his SPL game against KT Rolster) then how is a master leaguer meant to hold a slightly less refined version?
Well. If they started by doing that. Refining one build to perfection. And learning the basic fundamentals of micro/macro. That would go a long way wouldn't it.
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On December 19 2012 05:20 Clbull wrote:
It's like the 7 gate immortal sentry timing. If many pros cannot even stop it once scouted then what's stopping a player in a lower league from refining the build - this one build - and using it in PvZ? Yes, his version will undoubtedly have less game knowledge and somewhat less refinement than say.... Parting's, but unless he makes a critical error like.... not scouting a 2 base muta straight-out-of-fucking-nowhere transition, or a massive micro blunder, he will win the game.
If Jaedong - a former legend-killer in Brood War - cannot defeat a 2 base sentry immortal timing (look at his SPL game against KT Rolster) then how is a master leaguer meant to hold a slightly less refined version?
That's just short-term thinking. The master league player can't hold it off either (unless the strategy requires significantly more skill to execute than defend). Eventually, some pro zerg player will figure out how to defend the build or else Blizzard will nerf it. At that point, every Protoss that spent all their practice time refining that one build is back to square one, having gained nothing besides some temporary ladder points. A Protoss player that instead spent his time on fundamental skills has gained permanent skill increases that will survive any balance patch or "metagame" shift.
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I think the fundamentally apropos word here is training. In order to improve at starcraft you have to practice and work on your deficiencies. Are you still failing to build workers constantly? Practice it till it's second nature. Do you still get supply blocked in the first 10 minutes? Work on your resource awareness. Do you always lose your TvP because you didn't see the colossus transition? Know your timings and practice scouting better. Do you have trouble defending multi-speed prism harass in PvZ, work on better minimap awareness. Sometimes you have to just practice a shit ton before something will click.
It took me a good long while when I first started to come to the realization that build orders are not rigid or static 'recipe-like' directions. Half of what makes a build order work is knowing what the other person is doing at any given point at time (e.g. being blind and guessing is bad play, and there is almost always some kind of tell to what they are doing).
This is the single most important thing that lower level players need to learn, you must learn to self-diagnose your deficiencies and then if you do identify one, make a concerted effort to resolve that issue, sometimes by practicing in a controlled environment. Also, admit that in the words of CecilSunkure "you still suck", because we all do.
...also, Jaedong's defense in SPL was sloppy for a few reasons. Macro wise everything was fine, however, engaging Stats army was sloppy at best. He didn't bait out enough FF, and when he tried a surround, gave up positioning to allow Stats to just walk up to his natural uncontested. Nothing about this loss was due to anything but control and tactical problems.
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On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there.
i can get u to master with building either lings, marines or zealots only - in macrogames. its ALL about macro and mechanics, it always has been. dont talk yourself into that "the players that are plat now are much better" - most ppl even stopped playing.
ofc the skill has risen a bit, but u played a lot more then most others in ur league.
also, u have no idea about what macro exactly means.
u say "sure, i can get supplyblocked once".
You not getting supplyblocked and building an army as fast as possible end up with 100 supply.
Kas would have 160 supply at the same time. nothing happened. you (in your eyes) did the same build. that is MACRO for u. u can never get supplyblocked and constantly build SCVs but still have mediocre macro.
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On December 19 2012 06:20 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there. i can get u to master with building either lings, marines or zealots only - in macrogames. its ALL about macro and mechanics, it always has been. dont talk yourself into that "the players that are plat now are much better" - most ppl even stopped playing. ofc the skill has risen a bit, but u played a lot more then most others in ur league.
That is an analogy that is simply not true. Any platinum + player will not die to mass ling or zealot timings. Perhaps mass marines...but definitely not lings.
While they are not good at macro compared to a high tier player...they have enough knowledge of the game to have the units out necessary to beat these T1 units in time.
You would have to hit a timing. But if you were macroing, then you would aim for 200/200. And even a platinum player will not lose to such shit.
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On December 19 2012 06:27 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 06:20 KalWarkov wrote:On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there. i can get u to master with building either lings, marines or zealots only - in macrogames. its ALL about macro and mechanics, it always has been. dont talk yourself into that "the players that are plat now are much better" - most ppl even stopped playing. ofc the skill has risen a bit, but u played a lot more then most others in ur league. That is an analogy that is simply not true. Any platinum + player will not die to mass ling or zealot timings. Perhaps mass marines...but definitely not lings. While they are not good at macro compared to a high tier player...they have enough knowledge of the game to have the units out necessary to beat these T1 units in time. You would have to hit a timing. But if you were macroing, then you would aim for 200/200. And even a platinum player will not lose to such shit.
i wouldnt hit a timing, i would macro for 15 minutes and a click 3/3 lings / marines / zealots into his base. i acutally had a funaccount playing the worst bullshit strats with offraces that made absolutly no sense, and i happen to get into master at some point anyway even though i didnt want to...
I dont wanna say im extremly pro or sth like that, i just want to explain that micro and macro are more than enough to get into master with whatever nonsense strategy u choose.
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You need objective benchmarks to fix skewed self-assessment. If you think your macro is good, check your replays, and check your timings against the professionals. You're almost certainly lagging way behind.
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On December 19 2012 06:20 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there. i can get u to master with building either lings, marines or zealots only - in macrogames. its ALL about macro and mechanics, it always has been. dont talk yourself into that "the players that are plat now are much better" - most ppl even stopped playing. ofc the skill has risen a bit, but u played a lot more then most others in ur league. also, u have no idea about what macro exactly means. u say "sure, i can get supplyblocked once". You not getting supplyblocked and building an army as fast as possible end up with 100 supply. Kas would have 160 supply at the same time. nothing happened. you (in your eyes) did the same build. that is MACRO for u. u can never get supplyblocked and constantly build SCVs but still have mediocre macro.
The paper referred to by the OP doesn't only speak of those with lower skill. In all tests the top performers underestimated their skill and level of performance.
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/30wkuhf.png)
Could this be you? 
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On December 19 2012 06:27 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 06:20 KalWarkov wrote:On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there. i can get u to master with building either lings, marines or zealots only - in macrogames. its ALL about macro and mechanics, it always has been. dont talk yourself into that "the players that are plat now are much better" - most ppl even stopped playing. ofc the skill has risen a bit, but u played a lot more then most others in ur league. That is an analogy that is simply not true. Any platinum + player will not die to mass ling or zealot timings. Perhaps mass marines...but definitely not lings. While they are not good at macro compared to a high tier player...they have enough knowledge of the game to have the units out necessary to beat these T1 units in time. You would have to hit a timing. But if you were macroing, then you would aim for 200/200. And even a platinum player will not lose to such shit.
As a Platinum player, I lost to a zealot rush just yesterday. It happens. We suck.
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If you really want to see this work, you should check out moba games. Everybody is pro there.
Especially obvious when the player who fed 10 times in first 15 minutes ,manages to get three kills without dying, when the ancient is going down,types "my team noob, no backup at all". rofl.
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Agreed, the beautiful thing about starcraft is that there is very little unavoidable luck involved, most matches comes down to who played better. This means you can take the league placement as gospel, and do your best to affect it each game. The reason anyone below masters (myself included) is looked on as being really bad, is that starcraft players are really really hard on themselves. Even good ones say they are bad. They refuse to settle for less. It is best to accept your league as applying to you, because then you will probably strive for improvement naturally, instead of blaming the rating system for being faulty. Also I don't think you need to check replays unless you actually don't know what went wrong in the game. If you have the motivation to improve, you will likely reach your skill peak for the time you are willing to put in.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 04:53 Clbull wrote:
I'm trying to get over a misconception about my own play at the mo. If any of you are not familiar with the title name, the Dunning-Kruger effect is (as Wikipedia states) a cognitive bias in which unskilled players suffer from illusionary superiority, or feeling like they are much better than average.
I have had this with Sc2. For about a year now I have been stuck in Platinum League with about 2,500 - 3,000 1v1 games played overall since around November 2010. I did at one point peak towards low diamond but slumped quite a bit since.
My problem is I feel like I deserve to be much higher than this, even in Master League or Grandmaster League. I barely check my replays for mistakes because to be frank I feel embarassed to lose to Platinum and Gold Leaguers.
I don't really want to pin the blame on anyone or anything specific but I hate being in my league. Platinum Leaguers are seen as trash players and the big problems I have faced is finding practice partners to play Sc2 with or actually talking about the game without being seen as a noob/troll etc. I have approached Diamond/Master levelled players because that's where I want to aim for and they usually give me the same crap. "No, you're bad practice" and then block me. Even giving an opinion on how to do something gets you the "lol 3k games and ur plat, u suck, uninstall sc2" bullshit.
The reason why I hate my league is because they are treated like trash. Thanks to some misconception made on /r/starcraft that may have been true two years ago when it was posted but isn't now... there is still this inherent belief that improving your ability to macro alone will get you into Master League, and that anybody below this is mechanically retarded.
That may have been true two years ago but with a fleshed-out metagame now, I don't think it is. Anyway, enough about the crap excuses. Just putting this out there.
Seriously? You are complaining that you haven't improved enough to climb the ladder, AND you say that you don't practice or review the mistakes that you made in replays? Massing games is fine, but you want to improve if i'm not mistaken. Why don't you practice some of the simpler fundamentals that everyone says you should. Surely there must be something that you are severely lacking in whether it might be your inferior macro micro or game sense.
The next thing that you need to do is fix your mentality. You say that you are embarrassed to look at games lost to gold and platinum league players? Well get over it. You say that you started at platinum and haven't improved, well some of us started at the bottom of bronze. If you think that people make fun of you for being in platinum, try discussing meta-game changes when you are in low bronze. People either send you to the Liquipedia or laugh at you. Stop thinking that you are inferior or superior. just stop caring so much about the game from that perspective. Try to play it for fun or for personal improvement. don't look at the ranks as a true measure of your skill because they are not.
Don't be discouraged by other players of higher ranks. the only thing that matters is your self improvement.
P.S. People who cannot macro properly still exist in masters league. learning to macro can get you across almost any league. Just because you haven't personally proven it yourself doesn't mean that it isn't a good principle of the game to go by.
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Hey man. You need to fix your attitude big time. You are plat. You belong in plat. If you were better than that you would move up. Plain and simple.
Now, if you pinky promise not to be a whiny little girl. Send me a pm and you can practice with a few of my friends that I'm coaching up. 2 plats and a handful of gold/silver.
Most importantly though, you need to realize that you suck. I amaze myself at how bad I am everyday and I'm a solid masters. You are not MVP trapped in elo hell.
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Sure you can play a thousand games, but if you aren't improving that way, why would you play another thousand? If you want to improve, use your head and then use your time better. Maybe you could try listening to people's advice.
Talent is what bad people call hard work, determination and practice. You might think you're practicing, but you aren't. You're just playing a game a lot.
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Solid macro alone will get you to master's league. It was true two years ago and is still true now.
It's even still true for Broodwar.
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On December 19 2012 16:56 Ghin wrote:
Sure you can play a thousand games, but if you aren't improving that way, why would you play another thousand? If you want to improve, use your head and then use your time better. Maybe you could try listening to people's advice.
Talent is what bad people call hard work, determination and practice. You might think you're practicing, but you aren't. You're just playing a game a lot.
This. This. You aren't actively trying to improve. You aren't tiring out your brain, getting out of bad habits, and improving upon one single aspect every single game. If you did, you would be Masters in 100/200 games. You are bad, and master players are bad. Pro's? Still make macro and micro mistakes, quite a lot actually. I can get 200/200 at minute 14 whilst pressuring the other player with hellions/drops, can you?
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Being a plat player myself (though I don't play SC2 anymore), I know how you feel. There's only one way to fix it though: Stop feeling entitled. You have played a ridiculous amount of games, yet you're still platinum. That doesn't mean you deserve to be in a higher league, it means you definitely deserve to be in platinum, the MMR system is good enough to put you in a proper place in less than 200 games, of course it has put you in the right place after a few thousand.
You feel embaressed by losing to platinum players, so you don't watch your replays for mistakes. The proper course of action would be to start feeling embaressed about being in platinum and THEREFORE watch your replays for mistakes so you can improve.
Don't buy into the delusion that platinum players are actually really good and that macro doesn't work. It does, you just need to set your standards higher. Calculate your SQ over many ladder games and aim for pro levels. Check your workers at specific points in the game and see what is actually possible. Simplify your game and focus on what matters. I'm not saying you should try to win with masslings/zealots, but instead of using complicated compositions and tons of builds, find 1-2 builds you really like and then perfect them.
When I played the most, I was matched against diamonds consistently and I still considered my macro weak. I had better macro than most platinum players, but there was still massive room for improvement. I'm sure you're in the same situation.
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I wouldn't really advice on watching your replays unless you are GM. The mistakes in platinum are pretty fucking clear and you shouldn't need to watch a replay for most of them. It's a waste of time imo.
Don't buy into the delusion that platinum players are actually really good and that macro doesn't work. It does, you just need to set your standards higher. Calculate your SQ over many ladder games and aim for pro levels. Check your workers at specific points in the game and see what is actually possible. Simplify your game and focus on what matters. I'm not saying you should try to win with masslings/zealots, but instead of using complicated compositions and tons of builds, find 1-2 builds you really like and then perfect them.
And this is really good advice.
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I've got to disagree with Recognisable here. Often I've found myself thinking "Okay, I lost because of X" but when I watch the replay, I find a bunch more mistakes, even if I was right that X was my biggest one. There's no need to watch it in-depth, but just going through on x4 and x8 to check your macro is a good use of your time.
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EPT
