On November 15 2012 03:47 Saechiis wrote: But being smug about not believing in anything is kind of empty in itself don't you think? I mean, believing that there's bigger powers at work was being more helpful to this girl than your logical assessment of her faith. Arguing about how they're wrong could be perceived as "to enforce your believes on others" as well.
He is just ranting on the internet, he's forcing nobody to believe in anything. He is however, completely right. It's alright to laugh at other people's stupidity.
I graduated from a private Catholic school (a jesuit one, none the less) AND a private Catholic university (run by the Opus Dei...) And this post speaks PURE TRUTH!
I got baptized, made my 1st communion and confirmation, but I grew to not believing in the catholic's view of God. I'm an agnostic.
During my school days I was sick of the religion contaminating every aspect of teaching, every aspect of learning; God had to be involved in EVERY SINGLE THING. Come on, we're in SCHOOL. Even in chemistry class God was present. In the physics lab, same story. Let's get past the creationism bullshit and get SCIENTIFIC FACTS AND METHOD on the way, but let's not allow religion to keep poluting the minds of impressionable children, most times people without the ability to question the teachings of their masters. I luckily always questioned EVERYTHING. I never sat down in contempt, believing every word my teachers said. But it's not the same for everyone, and most people never get to the questioning stage... So they are stuck with poluted teachings. And that sucks ASS.
Yeah I agree with this on its own.its not fair that people are given such mind altering information at a tender age, to the point where potentially superior study subjects are not studied.
The OP is not trying to make an educationsystem though. He is laughing at people for their beliefs under the guise of some logician. Something about that strikes me as bad form.
I agree completely. Mixing science and religion seems harmful to me too. Teaching children at a tender age that things which are not based in fact are based in fact is not defencible in my opinion.
The OP is not trying to make an education system, however. He is trying to laugh down on the beliefs of others under the guise of some logician. That seems rude to me, and something about it strikes me as bad form.
No seriously, what's wrong with laughing at someone's idiocy? People laugh all the time when other people do dumb shit. And if you read the OP well enough you would've seen that he actually didn't laugh.
On November 15 2012 04:06 Recognizable wrote: No seriously, what's wrong with laughing at someone's idiocy? People laugh all the time when other people do dumb shit. And if you read the OP well enough you would've seen that he actually didn't laugh.
haha, yeah i agree, but who are you to assume that what is true for you is true for another? Maybe someone has a relationship with some deity and you do not understand it. Why do you even care?
On November 15 2012 04:06 Recognizable wrote: No seriously, what's wrong with laughing at someone's idiocy? People laugh all the time when other people do dumb shit. And if you read the OP well enough you would've seen that he actually didn't laugh.
haha, yeah i agree, but who are you to assume that what is true for you is true for another? Maybe someone has a relationship with some deity and you do not understand it. Why do you even care?
When did I ever say anything about truth. I do understand fictional relationships, I used to have an imaginary friend when I was 8 or 10. It all felt very real. People, still laughed at me tho. I remember my parents finding it especially hilarious.
@OP if you really care http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosophy edit: not that I can agree with descartes but if you want to start talking "logical arguments for god" you will "step on less toes" if you have done a bit more research. edit #2 or just, back up your arguments more.
On November 15 2012 04:06 Recognizable wrote: No seriously, what's wrong with laughing at someone's idiocy? People laugh all the time when other people do dumb shit. And if you read the OP well enough you would've seen that he actually didn't laugh.
haha, yeah i agree, but who are you to assume that what is true for you is true for another? Maybe someone has a relationship with some deity and you do not understand it. Why do you even care?
When did I ever say anything about truth. I do understand fictional relationships, I used to have an imaginary friend when I was 8 or 10. It all felt very real. People, still laughed at me tho. I remember my parents finding it especially hilarious.
@OP if you really care http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosophy edit: not that I can agree with descartes but if you want to start talking "logical arguments for god" you will "step on less toes" if you have done a bit more research. edit #2 or just, back up your arguments more.
point taken about the humour of people having imaginary friends :D
Sometimes it is not what you say, but rather its what what you say assumes you already know. I can easily say anything you ever thought you knew is false. I have no backing for this because that requires a metaphysic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysic) + Show Spoiler +
the branch of philosophy that treats of first principles, includes ontology and cosmology, and is intimately connected with epistemology.
Where the hell did you start from in other words to clearly define reality. We are after all just minds looking for patterns and such like.
On November 15 2012 03:47 Saechiis wrote: But being smug about not believing in anything is kind of empty in itself don't you think? I mean, believing that there's bigger powers at work was being more helpful to this girl than your logical assessment of her faith. Arguing about how they're wrong could be perceived as "to enforce your believes on others" as well.
He is just ranting on the internet, he's forcing nobody to believe in anything. He is however, completely right. It's alright to laugh at other people's stupidity.
On November 15 2012 05:13 OmniEulogy wrote: I've never thought about it much. I just think of Pascal and it's enough for me. I don't really lose sleep over it.
you know what, that's actually a good point. Sometimes i toy around with ideas of gods and the universe's meaning, but sometimes i feel like its actually just a small part of my experience and i act like i care more than i care.
On November 15 2012 04:30 Recognizable wrote: Well. I guess the argument ends here then.
In short, people who are just as hungry for answers as you are, if not hungrier, are finding that what you thought was true is a huge assumption.
FYI, i intend to read your russel. thanks for the lead.
No, there is just no point in arguing anymore.
I've never thought about it much. I just think of Pascal and it's enough for me. I don't really lose sleep over it.
I wouldn't do that if I were you. What if you are following the "wrong" "god" and you will be punished in hell because of following the wrong god rather than being truly apathatic about all the gods?!
On November 15 2012 04:06 Recognizable wrote: No seriously, what's wrong with laughing at someone's idiocy? People laugh all the time when other people do dumb shit. And if you read the OP well enough you would've seen that he actually didn't laugh.
butting into someone's conversation = rude
laughing at someone trying to tell you that stuff = not
On November 15 2012 04:06 Recognizable wrote: No seriously, what's wrong with laughing at someone's idiocy? People laugh all the time when other people do dumb shit. And if you read the OP well enough you would've seen that he actually didn't laugh.
butting into someone's conversation = rude
laughing at someone trying to tell you that stuff = not
You can't just compare these two things for one, and second I never said anywhere it wasn't rude to laugh at people's idiocy. In some contexts it might be, in some it might not.
In short, people who are just as hungry for answers as you are, if not hungrier, are finding that what you thought was true is a huge assumption.
FYI, i intend to read your russel. thanks for the lead.
I'll share my exam experience as a Christian, praying to God:
So, about 2 years ago I was reading for an Exphil exam. I had been preparing for quite some time, though had not read trough the whole curriculum cause I found some parts quite hard and boring, and I'm quite lazy and get easily distracted. Anyway, The exam consists of 2 parts. Part 1, chose between two questions with an longer answer. Part 2, chose 3 out of 5 smaller questions. Both parts has to be passed in order to pass the exam. During the day before the exam I was reading in the evening, and thought to myself "I probably wont get this on the exam, It wont help anything if I read this. I wont bother reading anymore, it wont help me much." During that evening of my choise to read or not to read, to either go and chill with my friends or to read, I was quickly looking trough the remaining summaries. I felt strongly that God told me to read on "Macintyre & Ariostle" (I did not realize it then how key this subject was in Exphil), and I had a choise there and then to accept and read or go chill with my friends. Even though I felt it so strongly I ignored that and went chilling with my friends. I did have my prayers answered for God helping me, though I ignored it. So the day came, and I asked my friends to pray for me even though I ignored the key subject. And I went to take the exam. I sat down, and when I got the questions, there it was; Aristotle & Macintyre question about virtue. I knew some facts about Aristotle but I totally had ignored Macintyre, I had no clue who he was. And this was an ethics question about their view and stuff. And all I could write down was minimal of some facts about Aristotle & Plato on this Part 1 of the test which had nearly anything to do with the question in hand. Part two I did answer very well, though it's part 1 that is the most important one, where I had to have answered at least four written pages to pass (I wrote two pages, full of out of the point facts and nearly nothing about the question, trying to pass) Also I had to pass to get scholarship for this school (and I was in mid semester, and pretty much without money) And I had prayed so much during that exam, and before, and people for me. And I got for the main part questions that I was not prepared for, and still after 6 weeks of waiting for the results I PASSED!
I know it sound like luck or whatever. But all these things line up for a greater purpose and Gods grace for a person who seeks him for help, even though I fail to work harder (And I'm not saying that its ok not to work hard) Desipte that, I saw how God was trying to lead me trough it, and he did.
Also during this semester, I was very short on money, and I prayed God to help me out. My mum usually doesn't give me money out of thin air (because we are quite poor) and I had not explained my economic situation to her in fully. Though day after my simple devoted prayer to God, my mum sends me what I need without even me having to ask her. All the other times I have gotten money from her, I have borrowed it! This time she said that I can have it for free (about 500€)
My cousin experienced once to dream the whole exam day the night before the exam with all the exam result. So all he did, was he went to the exam, and wrote down what he had dreamt, resulting in a very top grade. You don't think God listens to prayers?
There are endless of stories like this among devoted Christians all over the world.
claim that he is an omniscient observer meaning that the future is already determined, yet think they have to pray in order to fulfill his will although this cannot possibly change anything and I am not allowed to make fun of that?
this is as far as i got and I'd like to clarify something. the future is not predetermined, God has a predetermined path that he wants all of us to follow, but we as humans having our own free agency can choose not to follow that path.
the reason we pray is to keep in check to see if we are following that path
On November 15 2012 20:44 ThePhan2m wrote: I'll share my exam experience as a Christian, praying to God:
So, about 2 years ago I was reading for an Exphil exam. I had been preparing for quite some time, though had not read trough the whole curriculum cause I found some parts quite hard and boring, and I'm quite lazy and get easily distracted. Anyway, The exam consists of 2 parts. Part 1, chose between two questions with an longer answer. Part 2, chose 3 out of 5 smaller questions. Both parts has to be passed in order to pass the exam. During the day before the exam I was reading in the evening, and thought to myself "I probably wont get this on the exam, It wont help anything if I read this. I wont bother reading anymore, it wont help me much." During that evening of my choise to read or not to read, to either go and chill with my friends or to read, I was quickly looking trough the remaining summaries. I felt strongly that God told me to read on "Macintyre & Ariostle" (I did not realize it then how key this subject was in Exphil), and I had a choise there and then to accept and read or go chill with my friends. Even though I felt it so strongly I ignored that and went chilling with my friends. I did have my prayers answered for God helping me, though I ignored it. So the day came, and I asked my friends to pray for me even though I ignored the key subject. And I went to take the exam. I sat down, and when I got the questions, there it was; Aristotle & Macintyre question about virtue. I knew some facts about Aristotle but I totally had ignored Macintyre, I had no clue who he was. And this was an ethics question about their view and stuff. And all I could write down was minimal of some facts about Aristotle & Plato on this Part 1 of the test which had nearly anything to do with the question in hand. Part two I did answer very well, though it's part 1 that is the most important one, where I had to have answered at least four written pages to pass (I wrote two pages, full of out of the point facts and nearly nothing about the question, trying to pass) Also I had to pass to get scholarship for this school (and I was in mid semester, and pretty much without money) And I had prayed so much during that exam, and before, and people for me. And I got for the main part questions that I was not prepared for, and still after 6 weeks of waiting for the results I PASSED!
I know it sound like luck or whatever. But all these things line up for a greater purpose and Gods grace for a person who seeks him for help, even though I fail to work harder (And I'm not saying that its ok not to work hard) Desipte that, I saw how God was trying to lead me trough it, and he did.
Also during this semester, I was very short on money, and I prayed God to help me out. My mum usually doesn't give me money out of thin air (because we are quite poor) and I had not explained my economic situation to her in fully. Though day after my simple devoted prayer to God, my mum sends me what I need without even me having to ask her. All the other times I have gotten money from her, I have borrowed it! This time she said that I can have it for free (about 500€)
My cousin experienced once to dream the whole exam day the night before the exam with all the exam result. So all he did, was he went to the exam, and wrote down what he had dreamt, resulting in a very top grade. You don't think God listens to prayers?
There are endless of stories like this among devoted Christians all over the world.
Yes, because: Your line of thought is completely irrational.
I once saw an eagle, then found some money. Are you saying when you see an eagle you don't get money?
This is what it comes down to really. You ignore all the instances where it doesn't happen and remember the ones that fall neatly into your world view: Confirmation bias.
EPT
