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I was told this is a quite delicate subject and I never wrote about it before, probably because of the possibly polarizing view I have. The reason I decided to do it was because of what happened in the subway on my way home today. I overheard a conversation of two girls of approximately my age chatting about first an upcoming exam and second about the christian believes of the one girl. The other one was an atheist, agnostic or at least seemed not so totally convinced of the whole God thing like her friend. At one point the believer said (not word-by-word): "It was so beautiful, I experienced God last night and he told me that everything will be alright, that I'll pass the exam and that someday go to heaven if I keep up my faith." It would all have been fine if I didn't accidentally laugh.* They looked up and the other girl said: "What's the matter, are you making fun of her religion?" Not wanting to start a debate I said "No, I'm sorry." But she insisted "No, I'm curious, why did you laugh?"
Well, classic Christians believe in a supernatural almighty God which is a logically impossible concept, claim that he is an omniscient observer meaning that the future is already determined, yet think they have to pray in order to fulfill his will although this cannot possibly change anything and I am not allowed to make fun of that? It's technically like you were not allowed to make fun of me believing bats lay eggs. The only difference is that the bat-eggs are not as much an influential view.
However this does not mean that I think there is definitely no God or supernatural power or whatever you like to call it. It just means that I am a rather sceptical human being and find this particular concept (which I described above) extremely counter-logical and since there is no proof for Gods existence while nonexistence is unprovable I accept that we will never find out. One could also state the problem in a different way. Whether or not there is a God is rather irrelevant in itself. What's really relevant is what implications this would have. Since I don't think I as a person would need to change depending on which is actually true (while implying there is no such thing as almightiness and omniscience) it does not really matter. And that's essentially this believe is about: oneself. I totally understand why people believe for example as a coping mechanism in difficult times or because it brightens their lives in general. And they shall believe if they do desire so. I don't think less of them if they do. It only gets annoying when they bring it up all the time. Hell, you would get annoyed too if I talked about bat-eggs all day.
What is totally unacceptable is to enforce your believes on others. This does not only happen in extremely religious cultures like the Arabian countries. I don't mean the kind way like before an exam somebody says "I pray for you." In the eyes of a non-believer this is not going to help at all, but at least it's a nice gesture in their eyes and should be treated as one. I am talking about education in schools in the United States. This could never be an geography test in an European country. The perfect example of good education is this. Reasoning or creative problem solving is not really taught in European schools either. Sadly most teachers are just terrible at their job or have to stick to weird study plans. Still I quite often wonder how people can be so naive repeating every bullshit they ever heard regardless of how obscure it sounds. Having said this, what really bothers me is that for example women have to wear a headscarf, whether they like or not or even get beaten and this is acceptable because this one book tells you it is? In reality it is more a stupid cultural habit. I get really angry whenever people say it cannot be changed because their God or prophet says its supposed to be this way. Treat it as a tradition and let people opt out if they think it's stupid. Don't blame your imaginary friend.
*I didn't and the rest is just a thought process; but could totally have happened.
x-post from my blogger blog.
  
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I find it highly doubtful that God goes around re-assuring people about petty things like passing exams. You pass if you know the material. I find it always very silly when people actually believe that God affects things like whether or not you make it to the bus on time.
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On November 14 2012 21:10 Poltergeist- wrote:
I find it highly doubtful that God goes around re-assuring people about petty things like passing exams. You pass if you know the material. I find it always very silly when people actually believe that God affects things like whether or not you make it to the bus on time.
What about "God helps those who help themselves?" Is that the message you're trying to convey here?
I apologize that I don't know much about religion because I am an atheist. :/
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+ Show Spoiler +The easy way out would be to say "I just had a funny thought, what did your friend even say?" Then turn it back on them with something like "The world doesn't revolve around you guys you know" something along those lines.
Unless of course you were staring at them, in which case I will ask why you would be doing that in the first place...
Oh its a hypothetical =_=
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On November 14 2012 21:17 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 21:10 Poltergeist- wrote:
I find it highly doubtful that God goes around re-assuring people about petty things like passing exams. You pass if you know the material. I find it always very silly when people actually believe that God affects things like whether or not you make it to the bus on time. What about "God helps those who help themselves?" Is that the message you're trying to convey here? I apologize that I don't know much about religion because I am an atheist. :/
"God helps those who helps themselves"
It's a funny line, because if you had to write a book report on the Bible, and sum it up in 1 phrase, there is no single phrase that more effectively gets the entire premise wrong.
God helps those who help themselves, that is the distilled, most pure and essential, opposite of the entire narrative of the book.
It would also be a rather cruel god, siding only with those who need it leasts. Kind of like starting a charity to donate 50 dollar steaks to westerners.
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Other than that, religion is an individual's choice. People have the right to be wrong.
Faith is one of the worst attributes that is perceived as good, whilst being bad. A person of faith is simply a gullible person. There is literally nothing good about being willing to accept something without evidence, and it is a mindset that should go the way of the dinosaurs.
That the more practical and totalitarian dangers of religion must be fought is obvious, but I can't be too occupied with how some people choose to waste their time and thought.
I think it speaks of both our arrogance as people, in believing that the creator of the universe is watching over our exams, and of our fear, that we still crave the fatherly hand to guide us when we are well beyond that age.
It is that slavish attitude that I find repugnant, but again everyone may believe as they like, as is their right as individuals.
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There are people living in slavery, getting raped every day, starving to death, living under oppression, being hunted for what they were born as. What does God say to those people? That they're going to suffer for their entire lives, that no one will help them (not even he, despite having the power to do so), and that they might as well kill themselves, because they'll go to heaven which will be much better than their lives? What does he say to people who don't have exams because they can never go to school, because they had the bad luck of being born as a poor female in a middle eastern country?
But her exam? Yeah, God tells her she's gonna pass it, it's all good bro.
So fucking arrogant. To assume that there is a god, and that he is helping you, when there are other people who need help way more than you ever will, and who aren't getting any. Or at least not enough, considering the state of their lives.
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Oh my god that geography test...
Someone's gotta be fired for that. Doesn't matter if you're a private Christian school, your job is to educate students on scientific fact, not creationism bullshit.
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On November 14 2012 22:34 vOdToasT wrote:
That they're going to suffer for their entire lives, that no one will help them (not even he, despite having the power to do so), and that they might as well kill themselves, because they'll go to heaven which will be much better than their lives?.
Especially as suicide as a a way to opt out is punished with sent to hell or thelike in most religions. Which is ridiculous of course. And if it's his will and he is just a mean prick then why the hell should I pray to him?
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On November 14 2012 21:10 Poltergeist- wrote:
Faith is one of the worst attributes that is perceived as good, whilst being bad. A person of faith is simply a gullible person. There is literally nothing good about being willing to accept something without evidence, and it is a mindset that should go the way of the dinosaurs.
I don't agree. You have to believe in some things. You as a single person cannot possibly check every claim for proof. If a friend says the bus will arrive in seven minutes I will "put faith" in him. But I agree that the more ridiculous the claim is the more you should drawn towards finding proof.
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Just curious... what is the point of this blog? To bash religion? People have their beliefs and you have your's. Just because you don't agree with her religion doesn't give you the right to laugh at her no matter how stupid you think it is. I could understand if this girl in your little story was trying to push her religion on you, but she wasn't.
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@OP if you really care http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_First_Philosophy edit: not that I can agree with descartes but if you want to start talking "logical arguments for god" you will "step on less toes" if you have done a bit more research. edit #2 or just, back up your arguments more.
On November 14 2012 22:34 vOdToasT wrote:
There are people living in slavery, getting raped every day, starving to death, living under oppression, being hunted for what they were born as. What does God say to those people? That they're going to suffer for their entire lives, that no one will help them (not even he, despite having the power to do so), and that they might as well kill themselves, because they'll go to heaven which will be much better than their lives? What does he say to people who don't have exams because they can never go to school, because they had the bad luck of being born as a poor female in a middle eastern country?
But her exam? Yeah, God tells her she's gonna pass it, it's all good bro.
So fucking arrogant. To assume that there is a god, and that he is helping you, when there are other people who need help way more than you ever will, and who aren't getting any. Or at least not enough, considering the state of their lives.
well, theres Mother Teresa. what do you do to help those problems. I do nothing, but are you in the right to take the dignity of many others through your own belief system? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Theresa
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that's pretty dick to laugh at someone who wasn't preaching or even talking to you
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On November 14 2012 20:31 Cyberonic wrote:What is totally unacceptable is to enforce your believes on others. This does not only happen in extremely religious cultures like the Arabian countries. I don't mean the kind way like before an exam somebody says "I pray for you." In the eyes of a non-believer this is not going to help at all, but at least it's a nice gesture in their eyes and should be treated as one. I am talking about education in schools in the United States. This could never be an geography test in an European country. The perfect example of good education is this. Reasoning or creative problem solving is not really taught in European schools either. Sadly most teachers are just terrible at their job or have to stick to weird study plans. Still I quite often wonder how people can be so naive repeating every bullshit they ever heard regardless of how obscure it sounds. Having said this, what really bothers me is that for example women have to wear a headscarf, whether they like or not or even get beaten and this is acceptable because this one book tells you it is? In reality it is more a stupid cultural habit. I get really angry whenever people say it cannot be changed because their God or prophet says its supposed to be this way. Treat it as a tradition and let people opt out if they think it's stupid. Don't blame your imaginary friend.
Just a little food for thought... Aren't you trying to impose your beliefs (that it's not okay to impose beliefs) on others? Further, as society don't we (through laws) impose beliefs on each other all the time? Like women needing to wear shirts in public or they get punished? (Yes, that's a far less extreme comparison to some Middle-Eastern laws but still on the same line of thought.)
@ vOdToasT: Assuming there was an omnipotent God, wouldn't it be dumb to assume He/She didn't care about your first world problems?
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On November 14 2012 22:34 vOdToasT wrote:
There are people living in slavery, getting raped every day, starving to death, living under oppression, being hunted for what they were born as. What does God say to those people? That they're going to suffer for their entire lives, that no one will help them (not even he, despite having the power to do so), and that they might as well kill themselves, because they'll go to heaven which will be much better than their lives? What does he say to people who don't have exams because they can never go to school, because they had the bad luck of being born as a poor female in a middle eastern country?
But her exam? Yeah, God tells her she's gonna pass it, it's all good bro.
So fucking arrogant. To assume that there is a god, and that he is helping you, when there are other people who need help way more than you ever will, and who aren't getting any. Or at least not enough, considering the state of their lives.
If you took the time to study the Bible and God with an open mind you would discover there are indeed answers to these questions.
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On November 15 2012 00:48 thehepp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 22:34 vOdToasT wrote:
There are people living in slavery, getting raped every day, starving to death, living under oppression, being hunted for what they were born as. What does God say to those people? That they're going to suffer for their entire lives, that no one will help them (not even he, despite having the power to do so), and that they might as well kill themselves, because they'll go to heaven which will be much better than their lives? What does he say to people who don't have exams because they can never go to school, because they had the bad luck of being born as a poor female in a middle eastern country?
But her exam? Yeah, God tells her she's gonna pass it, it's all good bro.
So fucking arrogant. To assume that there is a god, and that he is helping you, when there are other people who need help way more than you ever will, and who aren't getting any. Or at least not enough, considering the state of their lives. If you took the time to study the Bible and God with an open mind you would discover there are indeed answers to these questions.
- These answers however are unsatisfactory to say the least... Not to mention, not even remotely helpful to all the people living in absolute misery.
- I'd say, it's debatable whether you need an open mind or rather circular logic and short-sightedness to find those answers.
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On November 14 2012 22:34 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Oh my god that geography test...
Someone's gotta be fired for that. Doesn't matter if you're a private Christian school, your job is to educate students on scientific fact, not creationism bullshit.
This times a thousand. As a teacher myself, I couldn't stop staring at that picture. What the hell is wrong with these people?! Totally unacceptable. And worst of all, it destroys the image we have of Americans in general. Terrible.
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On November 15 2012 01:46 surfinbird1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 22:34 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Oh my god that geography test...
Someone's gotta be fired for that. Doesn't matter if you're a private Christian school, your job is to educate students on scientific fact, not creationism bullshit. This times a thousand. As a teacher myself, I couldn't stop staring at that picture. What the hell is wrong with these people?! Totally unacceptable. And worst of all, it destroys the image we have of Americans in general. Terrible.
Really? It only reinforces my opinion of Americans.
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What's most hilarious is that somebody thought "The Big Bang" would be a better answer...
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On November 14 2012 22:34 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Oh my god that geography test...
Someone's gotta be fired for that. Doesn't matter if you're a private Christian school, your job is to educate students on scientific fact, not creationism bullshit.
I graduated from a private Catholic school (a jesuit one, none the less) AND a private Catholic university (run by the Opus Dei...)
And this post speaks PURE TRUTH!
I got baptized, made my 1st communion and confirmation, but I grew to not believing in the catholic's view of God.
I'm an agnostic.
During my school days I was sick of the religion contaminating every aspect of teaching, every aspect of learning; God had to be involved in EVERY SINGLE THING.
Come on, we're in SCHOOL. Even in chemistry class God was present. In the physics lab, same story.
Let's get past the creationism bullshit and get SCIENTIFIC FACTS AND METHOD on the way, but let's not allow religion to keep poluting the minds of impressionable children, most times people without the ability to question the teachings of their masters.
I luckily always questioned EVERYTHING. I never sat down in contempt, believing every word my teachers said. But it's not the same for everyone, and most people never get to the questioning stage... So they are stuck with poluted teachings.
And that sucks ASS.
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But being smug about not believing in anything is kind of empty in itself don't you think? I mean, believing that there's bigger powers at work was being more helpful to this girl than your logical assessment of her faith. Arguing about how they're wrong could be perceived as "to enforce your believes on others" as well.
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EPT
