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There has been a lot of discussion going on about the direction of sc2 in relation to it being a successful esport and that has motivated me to speak on a certain topic. I've thought about posting my opinions in various new threads, but I honestly feel that someone without a known reputation such as myself wouldn't make any difference by making a random post on page 200+ on some thread. There is something that stands out though that makes me think if something like this can't even get fixed by Blizzard then there might be no hope for sc2 being a successful in esports.
Why the FUCK can't people watch replays together yet???
Let me rant about this for a moment. Do you even know how good of a feature this is from BOTH a casual and competitive perspective? I've been around the community and played Starcraft since 2003 and this is probably the coolest and best feature that ever existed in the history of Starcraft. Everyone complained about B.net 2.0 when it came out and watching replays together was a hot topic of discussion and I think it was a mistake by Blizzard to ignore it/put it off. Why the HELL would a video game company not add this to their online game? LOL. It's so dumb. I have respect for Blizzard for their ability to make awesome games, but this is literally so stupid that I can't even find the right words to express how stupid I think this is. It's been over 2 years...
What I'm about to say though is important and is the main reason to support bringing this feature back. It can relate to everyone in the sc community both pre and after sc2 release. Do you know that feeling you get when you just had an AMAZING game? That game that only happens once every 50 or 100 games or so. The game where THE MOMENT it finishes, the very first thing you want to do before you can even put it into words is share it with others as your adrenaline calms down? This was soooo easy to do in sc1 and I don't know why sc2 doesn't have it. You would play an amazing game, or even a funny/entertaining game, and the very first thing you would type after exiting the game was something like "/f m omg watch this sick game i just played 45//45" (/f m being the command to whisper everyone on your friends list and 45//45 being an example of saying join game name 45, password 45). Then you click create, make the game, your friend/friends join as the game downloads in like 10 seconds or less, and then you watch the game on 2x or 4x. You can even 8x it to get to specific parts. Everything is already synced up and the host has the power to pause and control the replay to his desire. You can pause to get a drink or some food and watch it on 1x or 2x with your friends or do whatever. Also now everyone has that replay permanently. Today though, to share that same feeling, people have to go into the game alone and take screenshots and have to email them or post them on websites, or just send the whole replay. It's a totally different experience than before. Maybe I'm just too spoiled from playing on B.net 1.0 for 8-9 years, but the old way seems so much more faster, convenient, and fun. You guys don't even know what you're missing if you haven't experienced it.
The whole point and goal behind even mentioning this is I can't see the reasoning behind not having this feature. Is it too expensive? Does Blizzard only invest x amount of profit money from a certain title back into that title and they feel that this reinvestment won't create a new and larger profit? Therefore it is now seen as a worthless investment? I don't know how difficult or costly this would be but considering it's Blizzard we're talking about I don't think it's not within their power to achieve. When I think about it I just feel disappointment in this company. This is not even about balancing an RTS game, it's about adding a cool and user friendly feature and they still haven't added it after years of being released. How can I have the audacity to suggest something such as game balance to Blizzard when they can't even add an insanely useful and fun features into the interface, which is something that existed in the game's predecessor? This isn't even in-game stuff.. It makes me feel like the feeling I just mentioned above is something which not many people on the Blizzard team experienced. Maybe they don't realize that SC2, D3, and WoW all run on B.Net 2.0 and that sc2 is the only one of these 3 games that you can't share things? The chat system works in D3 and you can go up to someone and give them gear and even auction thing, and I assume you can do the same in WoW, but did they forgot that people used to be able to trade and compare replays together in sc1 too and now they can't trade or share ANYTHING within sc2? You can only join games, chat, and read Esports news. How would players feel if Diablo 4 and World of Warcraft 2 came out and they were no longer allowed to trade gear? That's the same feeling RTS players get by not being able to trade maps and replays. It seems stupid.
I already invested many years into sc and have made many good friends because of it so I have no regrets. It just sucks when I compare myself to newer players and see that they don't get to experience some of the luxuries which were so nice that it was a major part of the reason to keep playing the game. The game felt more social and friendly and less based around competitiveness. Yet it was still competitive enough that you could find it if you looked. There were situations on B.net where someone from another clan would come into your channel and randomly start talking shit and then one of you decided to host and kick his ass and then ban him from the channel and then show the replay to your friends because the bmer didn't want your friends to obs lol. Or if the shit talker won he would get banned anyway for being an idiot and then go back laughing to his friends and show the replays. It kinda enhanced another sense of drama rather than logging on and being surrounded by just ladder and Esports. It worked both ways and everything was available and ready to be accessed instantly within seconds.
There were also times I'd log on and not play a single game. I'd just talk and show replays or watch replays my friends wanted to show me and then go afk. If we wanted to train then we would go over replays together to learn from mistakes or study other peoples replays. Now that this feature is missing though I feel like the whole point of replays is mainly for personal use and used as a tool to help train in between ladder matches. How many of you save replays to show your friends in comparison to saving for study material? Even then, how often or quickly do you share them if they're for fun? There are times I save reps and my old friends never watch them because they don't feel like logging on sc2 just to look at a replay by themselves without someone being able to pause it for them and point things out. They're not active on the SC2, and didn't play that specific match, so how would they know all the subtle things I did? Also what's a better way to guide someone new and introduce them to sc2 and teach them without having to be next to them and walk them through everything? It gives the hosting player control to guide others at an shared pace. There are also many situations where I meet people on ladder and we make some customs to practice, and then rather than explain something to them I rather just show them a replay real quick but then I realize that this is no longer a possibility. I need to explain strategy via text rather than showing a replay. That or trade email information and then sync up replays. Fuck that. It's too troublesome -_-
I don't really play the game as much anymore and I only follow major tournaments like TSL since that brought good memories in sc1, but right now the only interest I have in HotS is to probably finish the campaign. I'm not saying that sc2 and esports is over and I will never get into it again, I'm just saying that this is an improvement which still seems worthwhile for even someone like me who no longer plays as much and doesn't have a desire to practice and become the next pro. So imagine how good it would feel for everyone in between the casuals who don't give a shit about Esports and those highly active competitive players who do?
Also, it's fun. I don't know what greater a reason you need to reapply this to your video game.
(I figured if there are others out there like me who feel that arguing about balance won't make much of a difference then this can be the next useful thing to fight for which can help benefit everyone. Maybe they can make it a goal to add it by HotS)
  
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I think that Blizzard simply does not care. That seems to be the only reasonable response to their lack of competency when compared to organizations such as Riot and Valve. They have much more invested in the World of Warcraft franchise, and I wouldn't at all be surprised to learn that they are only making the StarCraft franchise as a charity to the fans (and it wouldn't surprise me if they were losing money over it), while all of their real intentions are based around their prime source of income (WoW).
Having said that, I wholeheartedly agree with absolutely everything you wrote.
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Another one of these threads? Tell me, what exactly is it that you want to accomplish besides getting a bunch of people to circle jerk in this thread about how Blizzard "doesn't care"?
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On October 19 2012 11:27 CroN wrote:
How would players feel if Diablo 4 and World of Warcraft 2 came out and they were no longer allowed to trade gear?
Oh god don't give them any more ideas... !
Yeah I think regardless of whatever decisions Blizzard makes the question always boils down to "was their heart in the right place?" How could they consciously, blatantly not have this feature? Why was D3 released without PvP? Why did they call 2 remade troll instances in WoW a major content patch? Why did they scrap the raid dungeon that was hinted in Cataclysm?
It's one thing to be a little silly with game design/ideas/balance but something like the de-evolution of B.Net is pretty hard to ignore.I load up WC3 these days over SC2, and I am reminded how clean the profile page and chat channels looked. Or how easy it is to find a custom map to play. I also remembered how the website stats page was so far ahead of its time with how it compiled so much ladder game data like map statistics and hero usage. Too bad it's disabled now.
Edit:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376431
Oh :S. Sometimes I get the feeling they deliberately hold stuff back so they get a lot more gratitude when they finally do implement them.
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The technology just isn't where it needs to be yet.
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On October 19 2012 12:59 SnowFantasy wrote:
The technology just isn't where it needs to be yet.
HAHAhahahaha, you sir win the thread.
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Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.<
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Because it won't prevent you to buy the game. It would be an investment with no return.
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On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.<
So are you saying that the features that are missing from SC2 right now are due to Blizzard not having enough money?
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On October 19 2012 14:04 XCetron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.< So are you saying that the features that are missing from SC2 right now are due to Blizzard not having enough money?
Not enough time. And what they don't spend on their team of 1000-ish people most likely is invested in stocks. Business. this isnt blizzard of 1993 when it was just 3 dudes in a basement.
EDIT: money is just to give you an idea of how big the company is and how they have to split time.
EDIT2: And one more thing, in case someone starts to say blizz is money hungry...
If blizz didnt try to stay in business and spent thier time and moeny badly; they would shut down. No more starcraft, no warcraft, no diablo. All that time they invested into making diverse stories and characters for over 15 years would be gone.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I don't think Blizzard has enough manpower on SC2 to do any significant improvements. It's a part of being Activision and their 'spend as little as you can' approach to developing games. I think most of the staff are working on WoW, D3, or new IPs.
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That might be true. Blizz seems to go all in right now with the project Titan. They put like 300+ people into its team.
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On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.<
Blizzard isn't like a 10-man team you know... they certainly have the manpower and money to make it happen, they've just chosen not to allocate resources into the idea. I mean, we already have a precedent for watching replays together in BW.
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On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.<
I specifically mentioned that I still respect Blizzard, so it's not like I'm trying to get people to hate on Blizzard. The whole point of this post was not just to rant but to hopefully get some ideas across to some people who can possibly help Blizzard move in a better direction for everyone. Everyone is complaining about HotS new units and how they'll affect balance. Meanwhile I think there are issues like these which can help make the game more enjoyable to play with friends when fixed. It will make SC2 more enjoyable to play and will have people playing more often, whether you're a casual player or a competitive player.
Like I said, I think Blizzard can afford to add this feature if this wanted, but maybe from a business perspective the time invested (paying workers) wouldn't profit Blizzard in the end. I don't know if this is common knowledge but in sc1 the option to even save your own replays did not exist for 3 years or so. When it did come out it was bugged as hell and Blizzard kept improving it over the years. They even continued to add new features yeeeears later such as recording text in the game. Right now in sc2 all these features switched over except watching replays together. The bugs in sc2's replays aren't bad at all. You're pretty much guaranteed to watch the game you saved unlike in the past lol. I just think it's dumb that they included so much and then 2 years pass and they still didn't add one of the best features to ever exist for sc1. I honestly believe patching something like this is just as important as patching balancing problems. Fixing balancing problems makes for better games and a more enjoyable experience, so how is adding a feature which allows you to play and interact with other players not as important?
In sc1 you would make your replay in the same way you would host a regular game and you were required to password it. Then people knowing the name and password would join the game and you would see the replay downloading into their computer. When it hit 100%, they had the replay. You don't even have to watch it. You could even leave at that point and they could watch the replay whenever they wanted. If you didn't leave then all you had to do was start the game and wait for the countdown as you normally would and then you would enter the replay together. At this point you could do what ever you wanted as if in a normal replay except the host had the power to stop or control the replay speed. SC2 already has most of the features which is required to do this. The file size of replays shouldn't even be the issue either because replays in sc2 are almost the same size as the replays in sc1. I'm not a programmer either so I don't know how difficult it would be to implement this feature but I seriously doubt it's too expensive for Blizzard.
Interacting with people is a huge multiplier when it comes to entertainment. You can have the most balanced and best looking game in the world and not many people would continue to play it compared to a game that's half as good but has a ton of ways to socialize. Games like wow are more built around socializing, and games like league of legends have more diversity when it comes to character selection. You have to play like 50 games just to try out each character 1 time, starcraft on the other hand only has 3 races. A game like starcraft NEEDS things like watching replays together. It's not a game about trying out all the races and units, it's a game about discovering combinations, and strategy, and reacting and reading your opponents similar to how you would fight an opponent in a martial art. Going into a replay can simply be for laughs or for looking at everything in an extremely deep and focused way. To watch replays with teammates and friends is an extremely important concept that starcraft needs for people to enjoy. This is not just a game about staring at units exploding and you enjoy the fancy colors. People like to compare starcraft to chess all the time, so how fun would chess be if you had to teach a friend with 2 separate chess boards. One for him and one for you and you have to sync up moves and explain from across the room? Wouldn't it be so much more entertaining to show and talk about the game and the moves the pieces make while looking at the same board in real time? In starcraft it helps to look at the same replay.
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On October 19 2012 15:46 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.< Blizzard isn't like a 10-man team you know... they certainly have the manpower and money to make it happen, they've just chosen not to allocate resources into the idea. I mean, we already have a precedent for watching replays together in BW.
Actually that was exactly my point... in a way. We have to trust that they are spending their resources for the better. We have to assume they have bigger things going on than being able to watch replays with friends. Remember that not the entire SC team will not work on it, only a small number. And its not the original battle.net so that means different code. They will either have to start from scratch (or mod) the current replay system which will take sometime. I still don't understand why people think programming is nothing but some magical incantations and the flick of the wrist. Not to mention fixing bugs, which create more bugs. Coding is pretty damn hard man... especially for a system used by millions of people daily.
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On October 19 2012 16:20 CroN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.< I specifically mentioned that I still respect Blizzard, so it's not like I'm trying to get people to hate on Blizzard. The whole point of this post was not just to rant but to hopefully get some ideas across to some people who can possibly help Blizzard move in a better direction for everyone. Everyone is complaining about HotS new units and how they'll affect balance. Meanwhile I think there are issues like these which can help make the game more enjoyable to play with friends when fixed. It will make SC2 more enjoyable to play and will have people playing more often, whether you're a casual player or a competitive player. Like I said, I think Blizzard can afford to add this feature if this wanted, but maybe from a business perspective the time invested (paying workers) wouldn't profit Blizzard in the end. I don't know if this is common knowledge but in sc1 the option to even save your own replays did not exist for 3 years or so. When it did come out it was bugged as hell and Blizzard kept improving it over the years. They even continued to add new features yeeeears later such as recording text in the game. Right now in sc2 all these features switched over except watching replays together. The bugs in sc2's replays aren't bad at all. You're pretty much guaranteed to watch the game you saved unlike in the past lol. I just think it's dumb that they included so much and then 2 years pass and they still didn't add one of the best features to ever exist for sc1. I honestly believe patching something like this is just as important as patching balancing problems. Fixing balancing problems makes for better games and a more enjoyable experience, so how is adding a feature which allows you to play and interact with other players not as important? In sc1 you would make your replay in the same way you would host a regular game and you were required to password it. Then people knowing the name and password would join the game and you would see the replay downloading into their computer. When it hit 100%, they had the replay. You don't even have to watch it. You could even leave at that point and they could watch the replay whenever they wanted. If you didn't leave then all you had to do was start the game and wait for the countdown as you normally would and then you would enter the replay together. At this point you could do what ever you wanted as if in a normal replay except the host had the power to stop or control the replay speed. SC2 already has most of the features which is required to do this. The file size of replays shouldn't even be the issue either because replays in sc2 are almost the same size as the replays in sc1. I'm not a programmer either so I don't know how difficult it would be to implement this feature but I seriously doubt it's too expensive for Blizzard. Interacting with people is a huge multiplier when it comes to entertainment. You can have the most balanced and best looking game in the world and not many people would continue to play it compared to a game that's half as good but has a ton of ways to socialize. Games like wow are more built around socializing, and games like league of legends have more diversity when it comes to character selection. You have to play like 50 games just to try out each character 1 time, starcraft on the other hand only has 3 races. A game like starcraft NEEDS things like watching replays together. It's not a game about trying out all the races and units, it's a game about discovering combinations, and strategy, and reacting and reading your opponents similar to how you would fight an opponent in a martial art. Going into a replay can simply be for laughs or for looking at everything in an extremely deep and focused way. To watch replays with teammates and friends is an extremely important concept that starcraft needs for people to enjoy. This is not just a game about staring at units exploding and you enjoy the fancy colors. People like to compare starcraft to chess all the time, so how fun would chess be if you had to teach a friend with 2 separate chess boards. One for him and one for you and you have to sync up moves and explain from across the room? Wouldn't it be so much more entertaining to show and talk about the game and the moves the pieces make while looking at the same board in real time? In starcraft it helps to look at the same replay.
My main point was that the original battle.net is different from 2.0. It will take time, and they have many many many things going on besides a small feature in 1 of their games. I agree it would be an absolutely awesome feature to have but we will have to wait. Either way I think I read something about them trying to make it already quit a while back. (a few months after HotS was announced.) I don't know if they paused the project or not but they have it on their minds no doubt. Either way didn't mean to come off as rude or anything, its just that even if it doesn't take much money it still takes time.
EDIT: Is this a blog or a thread O_o lol
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On October 19 2012 16:30 Kazahk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 16:20 CroN wrote:On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.< I specifically mentioned that I still respect Blizzard, so it's not like I'm trying to get people to hate on Blizzard. The whole point of this post was not just to rant but to hopefully get some ideas across to some people who can possibly help Blizzard move in a better direction for everyone. Everyone is complaining about HotS new units and how they'll affect balance. Meanwhile I think there are issues like these which can help make the game more enjoyable to play with friends when fixed. It will make SC2 more enjoyable to play and will have people playing more often, whether you're a casual player or a competitive player. Like I said, I think Blizzard can afford to add this feature if this wanted, but maybe from a business perspective the time invested (paying workers) wouldn't profit Blizzard in the end. I don't know if this is common knowledge but in sc1 the option to even save your own replays did not exist for 3 years or so. When it did come out it was bugged as hell and Blizzard kept improving it over the years. They even continued to add new features yeeeears later such as recording text in the game. Right now in sc2 all these features switched over except watching replays together. The bugs in sc2's replays aren't bad at all. You're pretty much guaranteed to watch the game you saved unlike in the past lol. I just think it's dumb that they included so much and then 2 years pass and they still didn't add one of the best features to ever exist for sc1. I honestly believe patching something like this is just as important as patching balancing problems. Fixing balancing problems makes for better games and a more enjoyable experience, so how is adding a feature which allows you to play and interact with other players not as important? In sc1 you would make your replay in the same way you would host a regular game and you were required to password it. Then people knowing the name and password would join the game and you would see the replay downloading into their computer. When it hit 100%, they had the replay. You don't even have to watch it. You could even leave at that point and they could watch the replay whenever they wanted. If you didn't leave then all you had to do was start the game and wait for the countdown as you normally would and then you would enter the replay together. At this point you could do what ever you wanted as if in a normal replay except the host had the power to stop or control the replay speed. SC2 already has most of the features which is required to do this. The file size of replays shouldn't even be the issue either because replays in sc2 are almost the same size as the replays in sc1. I'm not a programmer either so I don't know how difficult it would be to implement this feature but I seriously doubt it's too expensive for Blizzard. Interacting with people is a huge multiplier when it comes to entertainment. You can have the most balanced and best looking game in the world and not many people would continue to play it compared to a game that's half as good but has a ton of ways to socialize. Games like wow are more built around socializing, and games like league of legends have more diversity when it comes to character selection. You have to play like 50 games just to try out each character 1 time, starcraft on the other hand only has 3 races. A game like starcraft NEEDS things like watching replays together. It's not a game about trying out all the races and units, it's a game about discovering combinations, and strategy, and reacting and reading your opponents similar to how you would fight an opponent in a martial art. Going into a replay can simply be for laughs or for looking at everything in an extremely deep and focused way. To watch replays with teammates and friends is an extremely important concept that starcraft needs for people to enjoy. This is not just a game about staring at units exploding and you enjoy the fancy colors. People like to compare starcraft to chess all the time, so how fun would chess be if you had to teach a friend with 2 separate chess boards. One for him and one for you and you have to sync up moves and explain from across the room? Wouldn't it be so much more entertaining to show and talk about the game and the moves the pieces make while looking at the same board in real time? In starcraft it helps to look at the same replay. My main point was that the original battle.net is different from 2.0. It will take time, and they have many many many things going on besides a small feature in 1 of their games. I agree it would be an absolutely awesome feature to have but we will have to wait. Either way I think I read something about them trying to make it already quit a while back. (a few months after HotS was announced.) I don't know if they paused the project or not but they have it on their minds no doubt. Either way didn't mean to come off as rude or anything, its just that even if it doesn't take much money it still takes time. EDIT: Is this a blog or a thread O_o lol
No offense taken. I'm just implying that it's been over 2 years and Blizzard hasn't added this feature yet even after rebuilding the whole interface. Now that HotS is coming out though I think it might be a good idea to raise this topic to them again. It's not like anyone will give them shit for adding it. It's something everyone wants and everyone will benefit from. Also patches are expected to come after HotS is released anyway, so why not use that as an opportunity to implement these new things too? It would be a shame if the reason they can't do it because they can't afford it, even as HotS hits shelves.
Edit: I wasn't sure if adding another thread would of been appropriate considering all the other similar threads being opened recently so I thought it would be better to write it in a blog. If it seems important and if people like it than I guess it can be moved or maybe highlighted. I was just ranting at the time of making it though lol.
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On October 19 2012 16:37 CroN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 16:30 Kazahk wrote:On October 19 2012 16:20 CroN wrote:On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.< I specifically mentioned that I still respect Blizzard, so it's not like I'm trying to get people to hate on Blizzard. The whole point of this post was not just to rant but to hopefully get some ideas across to some people who can possibly help Blizzard move in a better direction for everyone. Everyone is complaining about HotS new units and how they'll affect balance. Meanwhile I think there are issues like these which can help make the game more enjoyable to play with friends when fixed. It will make SC2 more enjoyable to play and will have people playing more often, whether you're a casual player or a competitive player. Like I said, I think Blizzard can afford to add this feature if this wanted, but maybe from a business perspective the time invested (paying workers) wouldn't profit Blizzard in the end. I don't know if this is common knowledge but in sc1 the option to even save your own replays did not exist for 3 years or so. When it did come out it was bugged as hell and Blizzard kept improving it over the years. They even continued to add new features yeeeears later such as recording text in the game. Right now in sc2 all these features switched over except watching replays together. The bugs in sc2's replays aren't bad at all. You're pretty much guaranteed to watch the game you saved unlike in the past lol. I just think it's dumb that they included so much and then 2 years pass and they still didn't add one of the best features to ever exist for sc1. I honestly believe patching something like this is just as important as patching balancing problems. Fixing balancing problems makes for better games and a more enjoyable experience, so how is adding a feature which allows you to play and interact with other players not as important? In sc1 you would make your replay in the same way you would host a regular game and you were required to password it. Then people knowing the name and password would join the game and you would see the replay downloading into their computer. When it hit 100%, they had the replay. You don't even have to watch it. You could even leave at that point and they could watch the replay whenever they wanted. If you didn't leave then all you had to do was start the game and wait for the countdown as you normally would and then you would enter the replay together. At this point you could do what ever you wanted as if in a normal replay except the host had the power to stop or control the replay speed. SC2 already has most of the features which is required to do this. The file size of replays shouldn't even be the issue either because replays in sc2 are almost the same size as the replays in sc1. I'm not a programmer either so I don't know how difficult it would be to implement this feature but I seriously doubt it's too expensive for Blizzard. Interacting with people is a huge multiplier when it comes to entertainment. You can have the most balanced and best looking game in the world and not many people would continue to play it compared to a game that's half as good but has a ton of ways to socialize. Games like wow are more built around socializing, and games like league of legends have more diversity when it comes to character selection. You have to play like 50 games just to try out each character 1 time, starcraft on the other hand only has 3 races. A game like starcraft NEEDS things like watching replays together. It's not a game about trying out all the races and units, it's a game about discovering combinations, and strategy, and reacting and reading your opponents similar to how you would fight an opponent in a martial art. Going into a replay can simply be for laughs or for looking at everything in an extremely deep and focused way. To watch replays with teammates and friends is an extremely important concept that starcraft needs for people to enjoy. This is not just a game about staring at units exploding and you enjoy the fancy colors. People like to compare starcraft to chess all the time, so how fun would chess be if you had to teach a friend with 2 separate chess boards. One for him and one for you and you have to sync up moves and explain from across the room? Wouldn't it be so much more entertaining to show and talk about the game and the moves the pieces make while looking at the same board in real time? In starcraft it helps to look at the same replay. My main point was that the original battle.net is different from 2.0. It will take time, and they have many many many things going on besides a small feature in 1 of their games. I agree it would be an absolutely awesome feature to have but we will have to wait. Either way I think I read something about them trying to make it already quit a while back. (a few months after HotS was announced.) I don't know if they paused the project or not but they have it on their minds no doubt. Either way didn't mean to come off as rude or anything, its just that even if it doesn't take much money it still takes time. EDIT: Is this a blog or a thread O_o lol No offense taken. I'm just implying that it's been over 2 years and Blizzard hasn't added this feature yet even after rebuilding the whole interface. Now that HotS is coming out though I think it might be a good idea to raise this topic to them again. It's not like anyone will give them shit for adding it. It's something everyone wants and everyone will benefit from. Also patches are expected to come after HotS is released anyway, so why not use that as an opportunity to implement these new things too? It would be a shame if the reason they can't do it because they can't afford it, even as HotS hits shelves.
We can't be sure as to why they haven't released it yet. I don't doubt we will hear something around the time HotS comes tho. For now we have skype :D
actually that may even be another reason they haven't added it yet. That just occurred to me. They might feel its a waste of time.
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On October 19 2012 16:46 Kazahk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 16:37 CroN wrote:On October 19 2012 16:30 Kazahk wrote:On October 19 2012 16:20 CroN wrote:On October 19 2012 13:46 Kazahk wrote:
Post like this piss me off.
First off, I'm no programmer; but I greatly respect the things they do. It doesn't take 10 min to make a program with minimal bugs. Even the replay program we have now it glitches sometimes. (buildings backwards)
Also, they aren't only working with starcraft. They may not even have the money to make that project. They have to pay other employees for warcraft, diablo, and other secret projects we don't even know of yet. Cut them some slack. Blizz games are perfected over time. If you cant wait and it really bothers you that much, go play another game.
It also seems no one understands business in this blog >.< I specifically mentioned that I still respect Blizzard, so it's not like I'm trying to get people to hate on Blizzard. The whole point of this post was not just to rant but to hopefully get some ideas across to some people who can possibly help Blizzard move in a better direction for everyone. Everyone is complaining about HotS new units and how they'll affect balance. Meanwhile I think there are issues like these which can help make the game more enjoyable to play with friends when fixed. It will make SC2 more enjoyable to play and will have people playing more often, whether you're a casual player or a competitive player. Like I said, I think Blizzard can afford to add this feature if this wanted, but maybe from a business perspective the time invested (paying workers) wouldn't profit Blizzard in the end. I don't know if this is common knowledge but in sc1 the option to even save your own replays did not exist for 3 years or so. When it did come out it was bugged as hell and Blizzard kept improving it over the years. They even continued to add new features yeeeears later such as recording text in the game. Right now in sc2 all these features switched over except watching replays together. The bugs in sc2's replays aren't bad at all. You're pretty much guaranteed to watch the game you saved unlike in the past lol. I just think it's dumb that they included so much and then 2 years pass and they still didn't add one of the best features to ever exist for sc1. I honestly believe patching something like this is just as important as patching balancing problems. Fixing balancing problems makes for better games and a more enjoyable experience, so how is adding a feature which allows you to play and interact with other players not as important? In sc1 you would make your replay in the same way you would host a regular game and you were required to password it. Then people knowing the name and password would join the game and you would see the replay downloading into their computer. When it hit 100%, they had the replay. You don't even have to watch it. You could even leave at that point and they could watch the replay whenever they wanted. If you didn't leave then all you had to do was start the game and wait for the countdown as you normally would and then you would enter the replay together. At this point you could do what ever you wanted as if in a normal replay except the host had the power to stop or control the replay speed. SC2 already has most of the features which is required to do this. The file size of replays shouldn't even be the issue either because replays in sc2 are almost the same size as the replays in sc1. I'm not a programmer either so I don't know how difficult it would be to implement this feature but I seriously doubt it's too expensive for Blizzard. Interacting with people is a huge multiplier when it comes to entertainment. You can have the most balanced and best looking game in the world and not many people would continue to play it compared to a game that's half as good but has a ton of ways to socialize. Games like wow are more built around socializing, and games like league of legends have more diversity when it comes to character selection. You have to play like 50 games just to try out each character 1 time, starcraft on the other hand only has 3 races. A game like starcraft NEEDS things like watching replays together. It's not a game about trying out all the races and units, it's a game about discovering combinations, and strategy, and reacting and reading your opponents similar to how you would fight an opponent in a martial art. Going into a replay can simply be for laughs or for looking at everything in an extremely deep and focused way. To watch replays with teammates and friends is an extremely important concept that starcraft needs for people to enjoy. This is not just a game about staring at units exploding and you enjoy the fancy colors. People like to compare starcraft to chess all the time, so how fun would chess be if you had to teach a friend with 2 separate chess boards. One for him and one for you and you have to sync up moves and explain from across the room? Wouldn't it be so much more entertaining to show and talk about the game and the moves the pieces make while looking at the same board in real time? In starcraft it helps to look at the same replay. My main point was that the original battle.net is different from 2.0. It will take time, and they have many many many things going on besides a small feature in 1 of their games. I agree it would be an absolutely awesome feature to have but we will have to wait. Either way I think I read something about them trying to make it already quit a while back. (a few months after HotS was announced.) I don't know if they paused the project or not but they have it on their minds no doubt. Either way didn't mean to come off as rude or anything, its just that even if it doesn't take much money it still takes time. EDIT: Is this a blog or a thread O_o lol No offense taken. I'm just implying that it's been over 2 years and Blizzard hasn't added this feature yet even after rebuilding the whole interface. Now that HotS is coming out though I think it might be a good idea to raise this topic to them again. It's not like anyone will give them shit for adding it. It's something everyone wants and everyone will benefit from. Also patches are expected to come after HotS is released anyway, so why not use that as an opportunity to implement these new things too? It would be a shame if the reason they can't do it because they can't afford it, even as HotS hits shelves. We can't be sure as to why they haven't released it yet. I don't doubt we will hear something around the time HotS comes tho. For now we have skype :D actually that may even be another reason they haven't added it yet. That just occurred to me. They might feel its a waste of time.
Nothing is a waste.
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EPT
