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(Author's note: I'm aware most of this information has already widely been discussed, but it usually quickly devolves into a flame war and there's little legitimate overview of the facts. So I'm going to try and make a blog post that calmly looks at the subject.)
Every time EvilGeniuses acquires a new SC2 player, you can be sure to bet that the TL thread about it is going to be flooded with posters predicting an incoming slump. The popular perception of EG is that they buy up recent star players at the peak of their skill for huge salaries, and then either some sort of sports curse, or just the heavily relaxed practice regiment, causes their skill to decline and eventually slump. For this reason, EG is widely mocked and heralded as a joke team, with nigh-infinite financial powers to recruit whomever they please but fostering a decline in performance for players that are expected to win tournaments.
Is there any truth to this? I will try to fairly assess the situation, criticisms welcome.
We can safely set aside the notion of a superstitious sports curse akin to the Red Sox's "curse of the Babe." People who believe in the 'curse' propose that players that transfer to EG will win one more big tournament before their skill drops and they're no longer able to compete at a competitive level. This myth sort of coincides with the criticism of EG's management, that instead of home-growing their talent, they buy off players fresh off of a prestigious win. There is some truth to this: their acquisition of TSL_PuMa after his win at NASL Season 1, mouz.ThorZain after 2012 DreamHack Open Stockholm, MillStephano after an innumerable streak of tournament victories, and Liquid'Huk after DreamHack Summer 2011 and HomeStory Cup III are definitely open to criticism, in contrast to teams like Liquid or Incredible Miracle that are quite famous for taking lesser-known players like Seed and TaeJa, and growing their talent.
This ignores, however, the lesser-known home-grown recruits of EG. TSL_JYP was a nobody before due to his abysmal PvT, but now he's in Code S, having shown remarkable improvement. Suppy as well was not fresh off of any tournament wins, merely a qualification for ASUS ROG Summer 2012. So this can't be a mystical curse punishing the rich team for their hubris.
What of the claim that EG's practice regiment fosters a slump in skill? TotalBiscuit dramatically called the NA practice house for EG a "frat house" environment, lamenting that the only reason a small group of Europeans can compete with high-level Koreans is because they have intense practice regiments. We can perhaps say that this is true of inControl, Machine and LzGaMeR, who were among the best foreigner BW players and have shown no results whatsoever thus far, except a few bronzes in 2010/2011 at tournaments without Koreans. What happened to their potential? It can't be that they're just too old now; the age argument has been busted repeatedly by a dozen other players. Whether it's the EG house itself or the practice attitudes of the players that have resulted in a failure to cultivate their major talent is unclear. (Some make the claim that inControl is not a "serious competitor" and that he only attends tournaments for the publicity, but obviously, no sponsor wants a player to be losing; he'd get more spotlight and legitimacy if he was winning tournaments, no?)
What of the foreigner stars, the chosen few able to compete with the Code S elites? HuK and IdrA were unarguably the greatest foreigners in SC2 back during the SlayerS-EG partnership; they lived in the SlayerS house, famous for having the strictest practice regiment of the major Korean teams. IdrA is now infamously on the worst losing streak of his career. HuK's slump, however, is vastly overblown. Placing 3rd at 2012 MLG Winter Arena (after getting knocked out by MVP_DongRaeGu in his prime!) and 4th at 2012 MLG Winter Championship are nothing to scoff at. Those are major accomplishments, so he's definitely not eliminated yet from the 2012 rankings. Frankly, EGHuK is proof that there is no EG curse; he might not be winning sets in Code S anymore, but he's proof that being transferred to EG at one's skill peak is not a death knell.
What to the argument, to EG's favor, that the skill peak has risen dramatically and foreigners really can't hope to compete at their previous levels anymore? Frankly, it's a load of crap. Players like Naniwa, Nerchio and Mana (as well as ThorZain and Stephano before their transfers to EG) have all scored major victories at mid-2012 tournaments which included Code S Koreans, so we've not (yet?) regressed to Brood War's level of skill gap between foreigners and Koreans. So what happened to IdrA and PuMa, who used to be able to do the same? Their early knock-outs in tournaments nowadays are roundly expected, when they used to be juggernauts raking in the victory cash. The last time IdrA won a set in Code S was January 2011. His fans are quick to snap back, "but he's dealing with psychological difficulties affecting his game, his mechanics are fine." Is that an excuse?
Ultimately, there is no conclusive evidence that the team/organization EG has ruined the peak skill of their players: there's only five legitimate case examples of players that are doing worse than what is expected of them (inControl, Machine, IdrA, LzGaMeR, PuMa), out of a team with an active roster of eleven. It's perhaps teleologically true that since EG frequently recruits players at their peak, that there's little to go but down from there, given how fierce the competition is. But, aside from a few commercial glimpses inside, we can't see what actually goes on inside the EG house, so whether or not the relaxed practice regiment is hampering with their natural talent is difficult to assess. Let EG fanboys be thankful that JYP trains in Korea.
So, is there an EG curse? Demonstrably not. Are they an evil financial empire ruining e-sports? Nonsense. But are they cultivating as much skill out of their players as they should? Possibly not. We'll have to see where the wind takes Stephano, ThorZain and Suppy, if there actually is validity to the EG house's supposed "frat house" environment ruining their training regiments. Here's to hoping the hardest working players win what they deserve, and here's hoping that bizarre misinformation spreads a little less on TL.
 
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So now observation stands for demonstration ? At best you have empirical arguments to prove your point ... Still the curse exist. Not in the form that people drop in skill or don't win after being hired but in the fact that EG players aren't playing as good as people expected them to when they were recruited and they are certainly overly advertised for what they really are. EG is THE poster team in the USA and they fail to upheld the big name status they have.
In summary, you attempt to disassemble a feeling of underachievement by explaining that thee underachievement isn't here. The issue isn't about the results in themselves but how those results are perceived by the community.
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On September 26 2012 04:18 Otolia wrote:
So now observation stands for demonstration ? At best you have empirical arguments to prove your point ... Still the curse exist. Not in the form that people drop in skill or don't win after being hired but in the fact that EG players aren't playing as good as people expected them to when they were recruited and they are certainly overly advertised for what they really are. EG is THE poster team in the USA and they fail to upheld the big name status they have.
In summary, you attempt to disassemble a feeling of underachievement by explaining that thee underachievement isn't here. The issue isn't about the results in themselves but how those results are perceived by the community.
I don't think you understood the blog. I actually acknowledged underachievement, but on the caveats that (a) it's only true for less than half the roster, and (b) it can't be a curse since EG players do really well when they train in Korea, most notably JYP.
It is indeed in how the community perceives them, which is why I'm trying to clear up a lot of misinformation that floats around.
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Here's to hoping the hardest working players win what they deserve
Stephano is decidedly one of the least hard working players. The dude brags about not playing. I guess that's why I kind of always hope for the curse, I hate seeing people who are mostly name beat people who practice harder.
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On September 26 2012 05:35 Luepert wrote:Stephano is decidedly one of the least hard working players. The dude brags about not playing. I guess that's why I kind of always hope for the curse, I hate seeing people who are mostly name beat people who practice harder.
If he wins... he not just a name, he is actually winning.
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United States15275 Posts
Good article, a few points I have to nitpick.
Before EG picked up JYP, JYP was one of the better Protosses in Korea. He was widely considered top 10 in both PvZ and PvP; his abysmal PvT was a mystery that no one could discern, and ultimately turned out to be a severe mental block that he overcame himself (EG had no hand in it). In fact he secured a Code S spot back in GSL Season 1 and was a Code A mainstay as far back as GSL August 2011. JYP is, and has always been, a "home-grown recruit" of The SCV Life.
The same is true for Suppy. Before EG picked up Suppy he had already performed with in multiple online tournaments, including qualifying for WCS NA and 3rd place in AGL-June Invitational. He took top 28 at MLG Spring Championship a full month and a half before the EG announcement.
HuK's bad results are the consequence of his antiquated playstyle and stubbornness in changing it. Quoting results from 9 months ago (most of his Winter Arena and Winter Championship opponents were foreigners too) is at best a desperate argument. The EG curse does not exist as a "curse" per se but HuK's performance does not disprove that either.
"Teleologically true" is not a proper term in any sense of the word.
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I like how you push your opinions as fact. The "EG Curse" anti-video was pathetic in their attempts to undo popular opinion.
- Suppy is still an unknown so you can't count him as proof for or against, particularly since he hasn't been with them long.
- Thorzain's biggest accomplishment in 4 months at EG is beating Naniwa in the WCS Sweden. I'd say that for a guy of his calibre, that's a huge slump.
- Idra in a huge slump and couldn't even take down the US WCS or the NA Battlenet Championship, which is renowned for being the easiest one.
- Have we even heard from Huk since March, aside from getting beat somewhat early in the WCS Canada?
- Lz/Incontrol/Machine are pretty much all write-offs in terms of playing ability on the world stage
- I can't for the life of me remember a good Demuslim result since the very first homestory...
- Haven't really heard anything of Puma in 6 months
- Stephano's too new; hasn't had a chance for his skills to deteriorate yet.
- JYP has no big wins since joining. Apparently finally turning somewhat decent.
... JYP's the only (possible) highlight in there and he's isolated on the other half of the world. How else do you want people to interpret this? At least we haven't been subjected to a Huk chinstrap yet... at least as far as I know.
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On September 26 2012 06:44 psychopat wrote:
I like how you push your opinions as fact. The "EG Curse" anti-video was pathetic in their attempts to undo popular opinion.
- Suppy is still an unknown so you can't count him as proof for or against, particularly since he hasn't been with them long.
- Thorzain's biggest accomplishment in 4 months at EG is beating Naniwa in the WCS Sweden. I'd say that for a guy of his calibre, that's a huge slump.
- Idra in a huge slump and couldn't even take down the US WCS or the NA Battlenet Championship, which is renowned for being the easiest one.
- Have we even heard from Huk since March, aside from getting beat somewhat early in the WCS Canada?
- Lz/Incontrol/Machine are pretty much all write-offs in terms of playing ability on the world stage
- I can't for the life of me remember a good Demuslim result since the very first homestory...
- Haven't really heard anything of Puma in 6 months
- Stephano's too new; hasn't had a chance for his skills to deteriorate yet.
- JYP has no big wins since joining. Apparently finally turning somewhat decent.
... JYP's the only (possible) highlight in there and he's isolated on the other half of the world. How else do you want people to interpret this? At least we haven't been subjected to a Huk chinstrap yet... at least as far as I know.
I enjoy how you ignore facts.
1) Thorzain has exactly 4 first place finishes in tournaments with notable prize pools. Half of them are with EG. The only difference is people used to respect his ability and talent, despite big results being separated by months. Now people are looking for excuses to shout "Curse".
2) IdrA's results are extremely variable, long before EG. His best results were in Fall-Winter 2011, which was a full year after joining EG.
3) LzGamer, InControl and Machine are part of the EG Curse for not being world champions? Apparently other teams don't have B Team players?
4) DeMuslim took second at WCS UK. He also hasn't gotten worse for being on EG.
5) Puma was winning tournaments for the first 9 months he's been with EG. He's been top tier longer than he's been slumping.
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EG picks up players that achieve well. Hence, players achieve well just before joining EG, and then cant be expected to instantly recreate their career highlight.
[/Thread]
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On September 26 2012 09:25 EnE wrote:
EG picks up players that achieve well. Hence, players achieve well just before joining EG, and then cant be expected to instantly recreate their career highlight.
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EG picks up players that they expect to generate positive RoI. Most players get to be fan favourites through tournament results, and most of the ones that have cultivated personality (good personality) are on/were developed by EG.
So no, EG doesn't pick up players that achieve well. It's just very, very hard to attract EG's attention unless you achieve well.
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On September 26 2012 09:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 09:25 EnE wrote:
EG picks up players that achieve well. Hence, players achieve well just before joining EG, and then cant be expected to instantly recreate their career highlight.
[/Thread] EG picks up players that they expect to generate positive RoI. Most players get to be fan favourites through tournament results, and most of the ones that have cultivated personality ( good personality) are on/were developed by EG. So no, EG doesn't pick up players that achieve well. It's just very, very hard to attract EG's attention unless you achieve well.
No, almost all players on EG were picked up just after doing really well. Suppy just after Asus ROG qualification and breaking out, Thorzain just after winning dreamhack, etc
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On September 26 2012 09:39 EnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 09:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 26 2012 09:25 EnE wrote:
EG picks up players that achieve well. Hence, players achieve well just before joining EG, and then cant be expected to instantly recreate their career highlight.
[/Thread] EG picks up players that they expect to generate positive RoI. Most players get to be fan favourites through tournament results, and most of the ones that have cultivated personality ( good personality) are on/were developed by EG. So no, EG doesn't pick up players that achieve well. It's just very, very hard to attract EG's attention unless you achieve well. No, almost all players on EG were picked up just after doing really well. Suppy just after Asus ROG qualification and breaking out, Thorzain just after winning dreamhack, etc
Thorzain was announced after Dreamhack. Contract negotiations were already completed before the tournament.
EDIT: Not to mention that signed players have a set negotiation period.
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Lol stephano doesnt play much, wins WCS europe, guys like incontrol and idra play alot, dont win much.
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EPT
