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Kennigit
Canada19376 Posts
Since some fans believe that addressing this after a match is making excuses, i'll take it to my blog. I write this as a nerd with a big mouth - i have nothing to do with player scheduling, line up decisions, league management etc.
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So without taking too much away from the fact that Stephano won, i'll address a lot of the comments about Taeja and Hero's performance/making mistakes. These two games were played between 2:30 and 3:30am korean time - hero had just played his code s matches (at around 5pm) then came home to wait for this. Scheduling matches internationally fucking sucks - its pretty common that you can be in worse or better condition that your opponent just based on scheduling (it was about 9pm EU, 3pm US when stephano/taeja played, and probably 230pm US/130am KR when Sheth played). Iirc we had basically hit the limit for delaying this set, so delaying the games wasn't really an option.
Robin (our player manager), disagrees with me that the timing affected either Taeja or Hero's performance (that they are on odd sleeping patterns), but i think there has to be some value to the idea that if your physical and mental condition isn't at it's peak, you aren't going to play as well as you can.
An interesting side note to this is that at the IPL TAC 3 final, taeja didn't eat breakfast and refused to have anything besides water (and some coke) during the first set where he destroyed IM. He had a sandwich and coke between the two sets, but i think that was pretty much it.
At MLGs i yell at HerO when i see him drinking Dr. Pepper and ask him to eat a banana instead (he ignores me ;_;).
JYP and Puma both had to play under the same conditions so it's possible that we could have lost earlier (5-2/5-3) if it was in their favor (Sheth played from US). Teams play with the idea that whatever time you agree on is the time, and you just deal with the unfortunate consequences of having your players spread all around the world. It's kind of like in the MMA world where you never really come into a fight without some bumps, bruises,dehydration - i think a lot of fans just assume everyone is always at 100%.
Because of the IPTL winner-stays format, you cant just schedule certain matches for better timing. There's not an optimal solution for timings right now. Ideally your players are in the best possible mental condition when they play hard matches due to the cerebral nature of SC2...it's just not as feasible as we'd like.
Until we have all players in central locations or some better solution you just have to factor in more variance in performance/decision making for all your favorite players.
It leads me to question if a winner-stays format is really the best for players in the long run considering they are all spread around. EGMC is a 4xBo3 with a Bo3 Ace match which is a different dynamic for predicting and sniping, but also allows for scheduling that is a bit more forgiving (robin can probably give better details on this).
I'm interested to know if you think an all-kill format where more play variance exists is more "fun" or "interesting" to watch than a 4xBo3 that players can prep/schedule for.
 
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Kennigit
Canada19376 Posts
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Canada13061 Posts
I prefer set schedules if it creates better games. Its also much more interesting to watch a proleague style format than an all kill one, in my opinion. You get more varied games, you get a different kind of drama as well. The side benefit is that scheduling isnt as big a problem it seems like based on the blog here.
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Certainly a fair assessment.
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i think a lot of fans just assume everyone is always at 100%.
I think most fans and viewers just assume that there are issues such as poor scheduling/conflicting times, but 1. there's no real way around it 100% and 2. These circumstances don't play an impact so huge that it completely dictates if someone wins or not. When you see players like MC be a bit sloppy, viewers pick up on this and run through the list of reasonings (and you see this on Reddit).
It leads me to question if a winner-stays format is really the best for players in the long run considering they are all spread around.
Nope, it ain't. But it's about the viewers. All-kills and reverse all-kills and kill-streaks make a great story and headline.
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Different tournament formats benefit different team line ups in different situations. If your team has an extremely hot ace, then obviously you prefer an all kill format. If your team is solid all around and lacks a clear dominating ace, then you'll probably want to avoid that kind of momentum based format.
I think there is a place for both, just like there is a place for the GSL (prep/schedule) and MLG (marathon run, little to no prep). They test different skillsets and both provide interesting viewing and storylines.
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I believe the all-kill format is much better for intensity and it is also easier to follow story-wise. Like getting one player to snipe another player with a specific build on a specific map adds another layer of depth to the player lineups/orders which isn't really present in the 4xBo3 format.
The only team league I hold in high esteem anyway is GSTL or maybe proleague because of the issues you mentioned. Everyone is playing in a lan environment on an equal playing field. All online cup results can never truly be taken seriously in the current state that we are in
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Canada1621 Posts
I'd prefer 4xBO1, the 4 hour long broadcasts from multiple leagues every night is just exhausting.
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I'm bored as fuck of winners format and knockout tournaments, there's a reason standard format and round robin was the majority of a proleague season
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Kennigit
Canada19376 Posts
On September 12 2012 12:16 Adebisi wrote:
I'd prefer 4xBO1, the 4 hour long broadcasts from multiple leagues every night is just exhausting.
This too! I don't have the energy to stay up for this shit hahaha.
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Canada13061 Posts
On September 12 2012 12:18 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 12:16 Adebisi wrote:
I'd prefer 4xBO1, the 4 hour long broadcasts from multiple leagues every night is just exhausting. This too! I don't have the energy to stay up for this shit hahaha.
Oh god yes. I've stopped watching a lot lately because I just don't have the time. I can't even watch GSL vods most of the time since its a BO series I gotta pick and choose who I watch and why
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4684 Posts
On September 12 2012 12:16 Adebisi wrote:
I'd prefer 4xBO1, the 4 hour long broadcasts from multiple leagues every night is just exhausting.
Yeah. You have to be not in education, employment, or training to follow SC2 leagues. I know a lot of people in rl that stopped watching SC2.
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I really wish the SC2 scene didn't grow up on the All-Kill format. There is a lot of storyline and strategy to a standard proleague/EGMC format and it really hurts to see people say that All-kill format is more "competitive" or has more appeal. I'm actually getting pretty tired of an all-kill format. The community atm seems to have a fetish for these marathon sessions.
On September 12 2012 12:18 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 12:16 Adebisi wrote:
I'd prefer 4xBO1, the 4 hour long broadcasts from multiple leagues every night is just exhausting. This too! I don't have the energy to stay up for this shit hahaha.
I tried watching EGMC and I stopped solely because of this. I think they're afraid its not "competitive" if its all Bo1's, but proleague did this for years and showed its extremely viable for team formats.
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Well-said. I personally really couldn't find fault with the way you were addressing it. A lot of people, I felt, just came across as overwhelmingly negative nancies, it was almost sort of weird that you had to defend yourself just for writing about the fact of the matter.
And yeah, sometimes those series can last waaaay too long ;_;
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Kennigit
Canada19376 Posts
On September 12 2012 12:23 Aerisky wrote:
It was almost sort of weird that you had to defend yourself just for writing about the fact of the matter.
You should see our team chat right now ;D
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I agree with Kennigit. International team leagues that are all-kill format are disadvantagous to one group in a timezone.
I also prefer the proleague format but thats just a personal bias.
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Agreed with alot of people above, another thing that pisses me off people's constant insistence that you need like a fucking bo15 grand final to make sure 100% that the best player wins, is not how sc works, BO5 IS FINE. If you require a bazillion games to separate people then maybe the game is at fault because you can't distance yourself from the rest as supreme gosu.
Same for Bo1 teamleague, the whole point is that you can predict someone on a map and snipe them, if you then have to play two more maps against that player, sniping becomes next to impossible. AK format bores me because it is often so straightforward, especially when losing team picks the next map (srsly that is the dumbest rule ever) as that just makes the entire match a snipe fest that doesn't actually require any thought on the coaches part and he could draw a flowchart before the match for players to follow and go out and get hammered at a bar instead
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On September 12 2012 12:25 Brosy wrote:
I agree with Kennigit. International team leagues that are all-kill format are disadvantagous to one group in a timezone.
I also prefer the proleague format but thats just a personal bias.
Maybe but you forgetting some other players has to deal with drunkenness and getting arrested. You can always find something in every player. Is the coaches job to take the players with the best conditions. So yea Ken should just have been quite.
Because its either an excuse or else its incompetence from the coaches.
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Kennigit
Canada19376 Posts
On September 12 2012 12:33 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 12:25 Brosy wrote:
I agree with Kennigit. International team leagues that are all-kill format are disadvantagous to one group in a timezone.
I also prefer the proleague format but thats just a personal bias. Maybe but you forgetting some other players has to deal with drunkenness and getting arrested. You can always find something in every player. Is the coaches job to take the players with the best conditions. So yea Ken should just have been quite. Because its either an excuse or else its incompetence from the coaches.
Comparing a player being too drunk/hungover to his inability to manipulate space-time to play at a time that suits him better. Seems reasonable
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On September 12 2012 12:24 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 12:23 Aerisky wrote:
It was almost sort of weird that you had to defend yourself just for writing about the fact of the matter.
You should see our team chat right now ;D
D'awww. ><
LOL Lyter. Who says the British and the Americans are relegated only to overstatement and understatement respectively? 
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EPT
