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Korean 101 (한국말), for beginners [p1] - Page 3

Blogs > mizU
Post a Reply
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Mayd
Profile Joined August 2011
Finland251 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-02 00:13:07
September 01 2012 23:52 GMT
#41
Even if the romanization is malhaeyo I can still hear clear r sound when it's pronounced fast.

+ Show Spoiler +


Everytime 말해봐 is said it's sounds marhaebwa but of course ㄹis little different from the English R. I can't come up with other sources immediately now but you can also try to put it on Google Translater. It can pronounce Korean pretty well. But to be fair ㄹ is pretty tricky.
유리 | 티파니 | 리지
ChoDing
Profile Joined November 2009
United States740 Posts
September 02 2012 00:34 GMT
#42
On September 02 2012 08:52 Mayd wrote:
Even if the romanization is malhaeyo I can still hear clear r sound when it's pronounced fast.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC58wPbgByA&feature=player_detailpage#t=87s


Everytime 말해봐 is said it's sounds marhaebwa but of course ㄹis little different from the English R. I can't come up with other sources immediately now but you can also try to put it on Google Translater. It can pronounce Korean pretty well. But to be fair ㄹ is pretty tricky.


its okay either way i can understand both...and im korean so no worries
관광 since 2008. Master of Cheese. God of Heartbreak Ridge.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-02 01:09:29
September 02 2012 01:09 GMT
#43
heh. I want to learn korean, but learning both intermediate/advanced japanese while learning korean would hurt my head >_>

so, bookmarking for later~..
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Lixler
Profile Joined March 2010
United States265 Posts
September 02 2012 01:48 GMT
#44
On September 02 2012 08:25 mizU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2012 08:14 Mayd wrote:
On September 02 2012 07:18 Suc wrote:
On September 02 2012 05:41 7mk wrote:
so in my korean learning thingy when ever 뭐 is used in a sentence its actually always 뭐슬 but in your blog its still 뭐해요

I assumed that the 슬 was like a variation of the 를 added to the object of a sentence, and now I assume that you dont write it like that in this blog cause you only use it if you wanna be formal/more polite... am I right in any of this? ^^

Never seen 뭐슬 before, but if I had to guess, I would say it's a kind of contraction of 무엇, which is the formal version of 뭐. 무엇 + 을 = (무 + ㅓ) + (ㅅ + 을) = 뭐슬. I guess that kind of makes sense if you were to say it fast.

I just checked Naver and they have no entries, not sure how common this construction is as I've never heard it before.

edit:


On September 02 2012 07:14 waxypants wrote:
I think with ㄹ it's not really useful to think of it as an R or L. I guess I think of it as somewhere between. For me it is/was one of the hardest things. I just listened and practiced it a lot and I think I am decent with it now... depending on what letters, sometimes it can be really hard.

It's easy if you've done a European language or Japanese or something that people roll their r's in. For anyone new, it's just
1) If it's at the start of a word: rolled r
2) If it's at the end of a word: l
3) If two of them touch: double l
4) If it ends a character, but the next Hangeul in the next character that touches it is a ㅇ or ㅎ: rolled r.

It makes sense if you think about it, if there's an open or vowel sound, it's easy to say a rolled r, but it's easier to say an l sound before a consonant before another consonant (which every character starts with).

That's the basic gist of it, there are more advanced pronunciation rules like ㄹ + ㄴ = ㄹ + ㄹ , similar to the conversion that happens between 입니다 being pronunced im-ni-da instead of ib-ni-da. These pronunciation conversions make sense if you sound them out; it's much easier and quicker to say ㄹ ㄹ instead of ㄹ ㄴ.

Also when native speaker says for example 말해요 slowly it sounds like mal-haeyo and when said fast it sounds like
mar-haeyo. Although it's kinda same thing with that number two situation.


??
It sounds like mal-ae-yo when it's said fast.

No, it's mar-ae-yo. There would be no reason for Koreans to maintain the l allophone in this scenario. If you accept that they elide the h so it's basically 말애요, it would be really peculiar if they pronounced this mal-ae.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
September 02 2012 02:15 GMT
#45
Maybe I'm reading it with too much emphasis on the r
but the sound should be closer to an l than r
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
September 02 2012 03:49 GMT
#46
the song was the best bit
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
September 02 2012 04:01 GMT
#47
it's an L, but with not so much power in it, and definitely not close to an R at all

only retards who lack the ability to pronounce korean properly will say it sounds like an R
why so 진지해?
Lixler
Profile Joined March 2010
United States265 Posts
September 02 2012 04:22 GMT
#48
On September 02 2012 13:01 Rekrul wrote:
it's an L, but with not so much power in it, and definitely not close to an R at all

only retards who lack the ability to pronounce korean properly will say it sounds like an R

hey man do you want to fight me or something

it's certainly the alveolar flap, not the lateral liquid. there's no reason koreans would be speaking so fast as to elide the h noise but then decide to go ahead and not change the l to its intervocalic allophone, i.e. the r. basically you need to think there's a phonemic difference here between 말해 and 말애, as in the phonology of the language underlying it changes based on an h sound that's getting dropped anyway. this hypothesis is pretty untenable considering the fact that the presence of an h is totally unnoticed in e.g 천만에요 being confused with 천만해요
MaRiNe23
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States747 Posts
September 02 2012 06:00 GMT
#49
I'm Korean and I say it's definietely an "L" too. I don't even think there is an "r" sound in the korean alphabet is there? That's why they say "Lee-Buh" for "reaver" instead of "ree-buh" or something. W/e I'm dead tired right now and I'll double check myself tomorrow.
We have competitive ladder, strong community, progaming in Korea going strong, perfectly balanced game..why do we need sc2? #1 ANTI-SC2 fan
TheKwas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Iceland372 Posts
September 02 2012 06:35 GMT
#50
It's a really minor issue that even Koreans don't make a distinction/fuse about. It's like whether you swallow the T's in "butter' or if you pronounce them. No one really cares outside of linguists.

As far as I know, the ㅎ can get omitted, making it basically the same as "말애", which is pronounced as "마래", making the ㄹ more r-sounding (but not actually an r-sound of course, just less of a L sound as it otherwise would be). However, if the person you're talking to actually pronunciates or talks slowly, then it should sound exactly how it's spelled.

If you're learning the language, just learn the spelled way, then learn what letters you can swallow/omit when talking fast from just interaction and practice.
Entirety
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
1423 Posts
September 02 2012 07:34 GMT
#51
As someone who has grown up hearing Korean every single day of my life...

Don't try to represent Korean sounds with English letters.

ㄹ sounds similar to L and it sounds similar to R, and it isn't quite like either letter.

If you pronounce it Mar-Hae-Yo or if you pronounce it Mal-Hae-Yo...
...you still won't get the exact pronunciation. Which is fine. It's not like you'll properly pronounce ㄱ, ㄴ, or any other letter. There are subtle differences.
None of this matters, if you say Mar-Hae-Yo or if you say Mal-Hae-Yo, I'll still understand you.
IMMvp (정종현) | Fan Club: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211431
greenmarine
Profile Joined January 2012
19 Posts
September 02 2012 08:24 GMT
#52
Thanks, for posting this! I can proudly say I learned Hangul mostly from your blog.

Now, to my American English ear, the word 뭐 sounds almost like muh or even buh when spoken by some Koreans. I think this goes for many words starting with the ㅁ consonant. Just something to keep in mind, especially when trying to transcribe overheard Korean with thick accents.
klibrt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States533 Posts
September 02 2012 08:34 GMT
#53
Lol... I know so many old Korean people in my church that can't pronounce "R" in anything....
Asmodeusx
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
286 Posts
September 02 2012 09:51 GMT
#54
감사합니다 !
Hermetis Vögelein ist mein Nahm verlahs meine Flügel und werde zahm.
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
September 02 2012 10:19 GMT
#55
this is awesome

mad props !
T H C makes ppl happy
deverlight
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Korea (South)463 Posts
September 02 2012 21:21 GMT
#56
On September 02 2012 17:24 greenmarine wrote:
Thanks, for posting this! I can proudly say I learned Hangul mostly from your blog.

Now, to my American English ear, the word 뭐 sounds almost like muh or even buh when spoken by some Koreans. I think this goes for many words starting with the ㅁ consonant. Just something to keep in mind, especially when trying to transcribe overheard Korean with thick accents.


뭐 often sounds like 머 (muh) and in casual online chatting, sometimes people will actually write 머 or 모 (mo) when asking their friends what they're up to... ie.
머해?
모해?

Kind of like how English speakers will often intentionally misspell words... ie.
Yoooo wutcha dewin

Hearing ㅝ as ㅓ isn't just you - a lot of people pronounce it that way. If you hear ㅁ(m) as ㅂ(b) though that's probably going to be an issue. I don't think I've ever heard those two pronounced the same way.
rotinegg
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1719 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-02 23:23:13
September 02 2012 23:19 GMT
#57
double post
Translator
rotinegg
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1719 Posts
September 02 2012 23:22 GMT
#58
On September 03 2012 08:19 rotinegg wrote:
5/5 for banner, another 5 for content


On September 02 2012 13:01 Rekrul wrote:
it's an L, but with not so much power in it, and definitely not close to an R at all

only retards who lack the ability to pronounce korean properly will say it sounds like an R

렉룰 넘버원 코리안
Translator
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 08:19:23
September 03 2012 07:25 GMT
#59
Useless to have a dicussion whether it's R or L, because just like Japanese, the only real answer is "both at the same time". It's basically smackdab in the middle of both, and the only reason westerners hear R sometimes and L sometimes is because of alophones, which you can't really "learn" anyway.

Simple guide:
1. Learn to pronounce the letter, which is basically a mix of R and L.
2. Listen to koreans saying specific words and try to say it the same way
3. Realize after a few months/years that you're automatically making it sound more R-y or L-y as needed.
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
September 03 2012 07:32 GMT
#60
On September 03 2012 08:22 rotinegg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 08:19 rotinegg wrote:
5/5 for banner, another 5 for content


Show nested quote +
On September 02 2012 13:01 Rekrul wrote:
it's an L, but with not so much power in it, and definitely not close to an R at all

only retards who lack the ability to pronounce korean properly will say it sounds like an R

렉룰 넘버원 코리안


옆
why so 진지해?
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