EPT
Faith in Blizzard
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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Treehead
999 Posts
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Antimatterz
United States1010 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
Diablo III can be called the first real failure from Blizz, the first Blizz game that people won't be playing for months on end, if not years. Even still, it entertained me for a good 60 hours, which makes it worth the money, but we expect more than "worth the money" from Blizz. Blizz has had a long track record of good games, and now they make one medicore game and people are starting to declare them dead in the water. I say wait and see. They were bound to trip up sooner or later, but that don't mean they are down for good. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
No faith in Blizzard anymore. They can't even respect those who helped to build their brand, I hope they fail catastropically for selling everyone up the river. For me, the value of the Blizzard brand is destroyed. I would also mark WoW as probably the point at which Blizzard stopped being innovative and just started using their brand and power to make their generic version of games of every genre the most popular. Even if they are the ones who first made the innovations that became generic. That's not the spirit of a good game company in my opinion. | ||
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Crissaegrim
2947 Posts
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On August 01 2012 03:46 Leeoku wrote: If you liked d2 try paths of exile? D2 feel, free online and a wtf skill tree You mean the FFX sphere grid x3? On August 01 2012 04:18 Chef wrote: Blizzard doesn't pay respect to their old games like they used to, they are a different company. There was a time when they were patching games that were 7 years old, and you felt like maybe it was because they were a company that care about making games and building trust with their fan base than purely maximizing profits. I don't fucking care that business is business and people are gonna say that a million times like it makes everything a company does ok. Blizzard built up all that trust and then sold in a few swift movements for quick profits when their brand got so big that maybe it doesn't even matter anymore. That is a pretty shitty thing to do. I have no idea how many of the same people are working there and how much has changed, but the company philosophy is definitely vastly different. No faith in Blizzard anymore. They can't even respect those who helped to build their brand, I hope they fail catastropically for selling everyone up the river. For me, the value of the Blizzard brand is destroyed. Wow, strong words. And I can't really disagree with any of it either. I dare say you could probably boil that all down into one word...Hubris. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
I know there are private chat channels now, but I feel that they should have done it D2 style and thrown everyone into general when they logged in. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:18 Chef wrote: Blizzard doesn't pay respect to their old games like they used to, they are a different company. There was a time when they were patching games that were 7 years old, and you felt like maybe it was because they were a company that care about making games and building trust with their fan base than purely maximizing profits. I don't fucking care that business is business and people are gonna say that a million times like it makes everything a company does ok. Blizzard built up all that trust and then sold in a few swift movements for quick profits when their brand got so big that maybe it doesn't even matter anymore. That is a pretty shitty thing to do. I have no idea how many of the same people are working there and how much has changed, but the company philosophy is definitely vastly different. No faith in Blizzard anymore. They can't even respect those who helped to build their brand, I hope they fail catastropically for selling everyone up the river. For me, the value of the Blizzard brand is destroyed. I would also mark WoW as probably the point at which Blizzard stopped being innovative and just started using their brand and power to make their generic version of games of every genre the most popular. Even if they are the ones who first made the innovations that became generic. That's not the spirit of a good game company in my opinion. I was about to type, substantially, that. I wrote a similar topic on a french forum. I'm a first hour fan of blizzard. Loved Lost Vikings, Rock n' Roll Racing (omfg yeah), warcraft 1, diablo 1, etc. I bought every blizzard game with -sometimes massive and months-long- expectations. I enjoyed them all so much. I played with my father. I made ton of IRL friends by only playing those games, travelled to places for LANs. In a nuttshell I agree in saying it all began to go wrong with WoW fantastic succe$$ (up to 10.000.000 paying customers? what?). It looks that from that point on, the soul slowly extinct. I didn't find any soul in SC2 which looked to me like a ball-less copy of SC:BW, more aimed at milking the trendy "esports" market than anything. In fact, after playing beta ofc, I only got my copy couple of month ago, due to christmas discount and a friend insisting it was an ok game. Then came Diablo 3 and it was all clear to me. I gave this one many, many hours (300?) in respect to all the good memories I had from Diablo 2 (it will get better, it will get better, hang on, it will get better). It didn't get any better, it lasted 1 month and I have absolutely no intention to play it again now. Yes, 300 hours is a lot and I had stuff for my money but that's not the point I mean come on.... it's freaking Blizzard and it's freaking Diablo 3, we EXPECTED more. I now no longer expect more, if anything, from Blizzard. I'm not even thrilled the slightest by HotS. 2 more things : - it could be also due to me ageing, to some extent - it's not only Blizzard, sadly. And it's sad because the current developers are the the children of the first "cool games", one could wish they knew better. We are making this to ourselves. Then again I'm not in the market and one needs to eat too. Still, not good from a gamer perspective. | ||
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PJFrylar
United States350 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:18 Chef wrote: Blizzard doesn't pay respect to their old games like they used to, they are a different company. There was a time when they were patching games that were 7 years old, and you felt like maybe it was because they were a company that care about making games and building trust with their fan base than purely maximizing profits. I don't fucking care that business is business and people are gonna say that a million times like it makes everything a company does ok. Blizzard built up all that trust and then sold in a few swift movements for quick profits when their brand got so big that maybe it doesn't even matter anymore. That is a pretty shitty thing to do. I have no idea how many of the same people are working there and how much has changed, but the company philosophy is definitely vastly different. No faith in Blizzard anymore. They can't even respect those who helped to build their brand, I hope they fail catastropically for selling everyone up the river. For me, the value of the Blizzard brand is destroyed. I would also mark WoW as probably the point at which Blizzard stopped being innovative and just started using their brand and power to make their generic version of games of every genre the most popular. Even if they are the ones who first made the innovations that became generic. That's not the spirit of a good game company in my opinion. I totally agree, especially in regards to Diablo 3. It feels unpolished, unfinished, and comes with blatant money grabbing (RMAH). Starcraft 2 didn't really live up to BW standards (totally just my opinion there), but was still a pretty good game, which I feel is held back by some to degree by b.net 2.0 being aweful. It does seem like it might have caught up with them with Diablo 3. It doesn't seem like the "lost faith in Blizzard" is all that uncommon nowadays; I know thats the way I feel. They had build so much good faith in their company by just being awesome over the years, and now they just seem intent on cashing out on that reputation. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
I always saw Starcraft 2 as a possibility, but with the announce of buying 3 separate campaigns, I quickly grew skeptical. And to be fair, the game is average... You can't rake an average game for that type of money. I would buy Brood War again if it came out in 3 parts, not SC2. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
I liked SC2, and I had a lot of fun watching some tournaments. I gave it two years, but after over a year of laddering and a few months plateaued at mid-masters, playing just got old. Interestingly, around the time I moved to Korea, I stopped watching SC2 all together. I've been trying to get into the TSL3, but it's just so time consuming and it's simply not as fun as playing other games. Blizzard really gave it their best shot. But along the line, something was left behind. I don't know what it is, or how to describe it. I'm currently having more fun playing and watching dota 2 than I ever did playing or watching SC2, but even that still doesn't live up to BW. Brood War was just magical. I can't describe it. The emotion I felt during the Jangbi/Calm semifinal was almost overwhelming. This weekend, the finals will be electric, and I imagine there will be moments I will never forget for as long as I live, as the final game of Blizzard's golden age makes its last stand before being completely snuffed out by the powers that be. I'm glad someone shares my sentiments. I want to add that D3 was obviously a huge let-down, the items are absolutely horrible, I mean they're about as complex and intriguing as what I would expect from a flash game made by college students to have. Inferno is a complete gimmick, its difficulty combined with the skill system leads to less variation than I've ever seen in an RPG, and it's just completely unfun. And if you get sick of restarting 50 times until you finally get the right champion packs that are killable so you can progress, you can't even kick it with your buddies and PvP. I spent years, literally years playing D2. I spent 3 weeks playing D3 and I'll never pick it up again. But I don't care, I didn't love D2. I loved BW. SC2 is miles ahead of D3, to be sure, but I'm just not feeling it. I'm glad Valve is doing a stellar job with Dota 2, I have a feeling they will truly be the developer that everyone can rely on for quality games over the next 10 years. | ||
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Sc1pio
United States823 Posts
It was completely mindblowing. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
The biggest question mark for me is why even bother with the RMAH and the monthy sub fees? The "make a great game, charge $30 per expansion pack" system was working fine and making them money. I guess they saw the light of even more dollar signs and couldn't resist. I just really hope HotS doesn't kill SC2... | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
dark souls ftw! maybe some dota 2 | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On August 01 2012 08:20 Kurr wrote: I still feel like if I played Diablo 2 right now I would enjoy it. Diablo 3... well, let's just say Blizzard is permanently off my "easy buy" list. just reinstall d2  best thing d3 has done for me :D | ||
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
Thanks for the run Blizz, but I have lost faith in you and Starcraft II for the time being. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
It looks like a lot of thought has been put into understanding the influence activision has had and I'm not going to comment on that; but I think the fact that the previous designers of Diablo 2 have gone on to make Torchlight, which is one of the most successful Diablo 2 clones out there that is loved by the community speaks volumes about how important they were to Blizzard (I think the team was commonly known as Blizzard North). And then there's James Phinney who went on to make Guild Wars (also very successful). To me nothing "bad" has happened to Blizzard, their talent just moved on. Its amazing when you compare the differences in the quality of dialogue from Starcraft 1 & Brood war to SC2. (the originals were much, much better  ). Although Chris Metzen is still doing Sc2 it looks like his role is reduced significantly - he's just the writer. I guess his talent for game design did not transfer over to that department | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
On August 01 2012 10:27 radscorpion9 wrote: I know a lot of the vets probably know this, but I didn't see it mentioned and am a bit surprised. Isn't the main factor that most of the game designers for the new games aren't the ones who designed the old ones? Diablo 2, Starcraft and its expansion Brood war were all done by different people. It looks like a lot of thought has been put into understanding the influence activision has had and I'm not going to comment on that; but I think the fact that the previous designers of Diablo 2 have gone on to make Torchlight, which is one of the most successful Diablo 2 clones out there that is loved by the community speaks volumes about how important they were to Blizzard (I think the team was commonly known as Blizzard North). And then there's James Phinney who went on to make Guild Wars (also very successful). To me nothing "bad" has happened to Blizzard, their talent just moved on. Its amazing when you compare the differences in the quality of dialogue from Starcraft 1 & Brood war to SC2. (the originals were much, much better ). Although Chris Metzen is still doing Sc2 it looks like his role is reduced significantly - he's just the writer. I guess his talent for game design did not transfer over to that departmentThat's a very good point and could be "the soul" I was thinking about. Those guys. Also, totally agreed on the dialogues - and the ambiance in general, much deeper, more mature tbh. Today, it feels like Blizzard is adressing us like we're 7 years old, everything being so explicit, politically correct and cliché. Boring. Edit : probably not the most relevant example but do you remember the "nightmare" levels of Max Payne 1? Where he would go, over and over, on the family house and it was more and more twisted every time. Not sure why I think about that, but this was soul, this was balls.... this was something that made me love the game. Not saying this kind of strong decisions would make more cash than the Blizzard current ones (certainly wouldn't, actually), but from a gamer, and not a consumer, point of view... wow. | ||
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
In contrast, both SC2 and Diablo 3 seem designed to funnel players into narrow gameplay experiences. The one-account restriction is devastating to SC2 because it punishes players for playing around or trying different things. Want to try a different race? Enjoy dozens of frustrating games against players who badly overmatch your offrace while your MMR stabilizes. Want to goof around a little and try some proxy nexus mothership rushes? Well, you're going to get smashed because the system will only match you up with people appropriate for your usual level of play. As far as I can tell, the restriction was designed to combat smurfing, yet it fails to even achieve that goal because players simply downrank -- a practice generally less fun for smurfs and smurfees alike than in WC3 or SC1 because it basically lets you choose exactly how difficult of an opponent you'd like to play against, whereas starting a new account in previous games was always a pandora's box -- it was always far from a guarantee that your early opponents would be real newbies. Couple that with Bnet 2.0's poor interface and lack of social tools, which combined to create a much more limited custom game scene, and unless your mindset is about playing competitively and trying to move up the ranks every time you log on, you're going to be met with obstacles to your gameplay experience. Diablo III is even worse. With the new skill system there's basically never a reason to level more than one character of a class, at least in softcore play (and with bnet's instability and the lack of an offline option, hardcore is a not so appealing option IMO). Since the game is designed around the auction house, drop rates for gear worth using are horrible. I can't even remember the last time I got an item I actually wanted to use; I'm just happy if I get a single item worth putting on the AH for 1/100th the price of an item that'd be an actual upgrade. In D2, most of my characters wore exclusively gear that they found themselves, with minimal trading. Could you even play D3 that way? I have to think it'd be dreadful. Unless you enjoy hours of mindless farming just to play the loot lottery over and over again, there's basically nothing to do. Starting new characters isn't even very appealing because you have to sink about 30 hours of gameplay in before the games starts to reach a baseline level of challenge where it's actually fun. Classic Blizzard games aren't so much an experience as a platform from which you could create whatever experience you are looking for, but modern Blizzard games are all about funneling players into one "pure" style of play, regardless of whether or not that's what they actually want or like. Oh well, the sad thing is that they're still one of the better PC game developers despite having fallen so far. I'll probably keep buying their non-MMO content, at least for now. But it's clear to me that their games aren't what they used to be, and I don't think they'll be going back. | ||
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ParkwayDrive
United States328 Posts
great post. great perspective i dont tend to be overly dramatic but i think HotS will be make or break got blizz. theyve had 2+ years to listen to what we want. i think either sc2 will blow up even more or will shudder back into more of a niche community than it already is | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6080179368?page=1 It's a VERY legitimate concern that should be at the top of their priorities because it's a big problem that requires very little effort to fix. Yet Blizzard never addresses those concerns, ever - because having a safe trade window doesn't increase their RMAH profits. Many of the problems about D3 make me think that Blizzard is greedy and they think they can get away with screwing their customers with a bad product. That's bad but it happens. This particular problem with the trade window makes me think that Blizzard is actual vile and fucking despicable. I'm ashamed to have bought the CE of Diablo 3. Blizzard was always a business, but it used to be good to its fans. Now it went full out corporate bullshit and it's riding the wave of old-blizzard's fantastic products and the brand-loyalty that they earned in the past. They no longer feel like they need to earn that brand loyalty, or at the very least they don't work for it at this point. Blizzard used to take you out on nice dates - romantic dinner and all. You always knew that Blizzard only ever was nice to you to get in your pants, but at least it was pleasant, and you put out for it. It was a mutually enjoyable relationship. But now Blizzard takes you for granted, so it's putting on weight and won't take you out. Blizzard barely showers, and when he feels romantic he orders a pizza. He knows you'll put out regardless, because you've been together for a long time and you've forgotten how nice it was at first. And you can just feel Blizzard ramming your bottom as you eat that disgusting pizza from Pizza Hut - it's okay though. It's Blizzard's favorite. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
I skimmed through your BN thread, nice dedication there. Reminded me how sad of a story Diablo 3 has been. Also, I feel what you're after is not the actual fix (since you say in OP you don't play anymore), but some form of recognition, acknowledgement from Blizzard. There are 7 millions D3 customers (right?), so I feel they kind of can afford to ignore you. Yeah well, not too sure where I'm going with this post. Maybe there : is it worth your time/concern? | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On August 01 2012 14:15 Murlox wrote: ^ lol at the old couple story. I skimmed through your BN thread, nice dedication there. Reminded me how sad of a story Diablo 3 has been. Also, I feel what you're after is not the actual fix (since you say in OP you don't play anymore), but some form of recognition, acknowledgement from Blizzard. There are 7 millions D3 customers (right?), so I feel they kind of can afford to ignore you. Yeah well, not too sure where I'm going with this post. Maybe there : is it worth your time/concern? You're absolutely right, I'm actually looking for recognition or something like that, I don't know what I would call it. I wouldn't personally benefit at all if they were to apply this fix because I'm not going to play Diablo 3 ever again - but I would be happy if Blizzard started doing the "right" thing once in a while, rather than the "immediately profitable" thing. If Blizzard manages to get back some of its humanity, maybe I won't have to puke in my mouth when I'll buy HotS. And you ask me if it's worth my time, and it definitely isn't. But that's my emotional response to seeing the father of Starcraft Brood War turning into a wife-beating alcoholic. Oh how the mighty have fallen. It's truly gut wrenching to witness that fall. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
What I'm saying is blizzard didn't turn into a wife-beating alcoholic. Blizzard is gone. The wife-beating alcoholic is another dude who is simply using the same name. And no don't even bring up the fact that some people probably have stayed, this is not a rational reasoning here. Blizzard is gone and this is another dude. No fall, only -arguably- well executed impersonation. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On August 01 2012 14:48 Murlox wrote: I understand and you know, after reading the thread linked in the OP and considering what Lord_J pertinently reminded few posts above (about the crew), I think one cannot call current Blizzard the father of SC:BW. It simply isn't. Only the name remains. And that can fool people only for so long... What I'm saying is blizzard didn't turn into a wife-beating alcoholic. Blizzard is gone. The wife-beating alcoholic is another dude who is simply using the same name. And no don't even bring up the fact that some people probably have stayed, this is not a rational reasoning here. Blizzard is gone and this is another dude. No fall, only -arguably- well executed impersonation. That's absolutely true, but it's hard to accept that. As a gamer, I'm forced to look at the video game industry right now with deep and uncomfortable pessimism. Blizzard was like this beacon of hope, and while I probably should give up and come to terms with the fact that it's never going to be the same, there's this part of me that wonders why "New-Blizzard" won't even try to emulate Blizzard. Is there even the slightest chance that Morhaime wasn't full of shit when he said that Blizzard cares about what we have to say? What if the feedback made them realize that the big money is in taking care of their fans? I realize that I'm making it sound a bit overly dramatic, but it's a really big deal to me. I love Starcraft Brood War so much, and SC2 leaves me so indifferent - and Diablo 3 leaves me outright fucking pissed off. Blizzard died and I never knew... I don't know all that much about business, so maybe I'm just wrong on some levels, but Blizzard's name is seen in such high regard, the company's name has so much status, they can release all kinds of crap and treat their customers like subhumans, they're still benefiting from their good name. But what happens when the fans realize what's going on and start refusing to put out for a mushy pizza? [Sorry about all the analogies] + Show Spoiler + Blizzard may be a bit big for that, but Activision's done similar things in the past. 1- Produce sequels that people will buy by brand loyalty. 2- Cut all possible corners, produce bad game that people will buy anyway because it's a sequel developed under a reputable name 3- Juice customers, who are not satisfied 4- -> ![[image loading]](http://i48.tinypic.com/1eqoi9.jpg) 5- Profit Off to bed I go. Will have nightmares. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
I love the older Blizzard titles - SC/D2/WC3 have been the core of my gaming hours for over a decade. I still play those games, especially WC3 UMS when we can get a good ih crowd going. Of course, Blizzard makes more money from selling new titles to new gamers instead of pleasing the older generation who's satisfied already with the older, already-sold titles. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On August 01 2012 13:33 Djzapz wrote: I loved Blizzard so much, but the old Blizzard is dead. I still bought SC2's CE, I bought D3's CE - now I need them to do a few things right. It's no secret that D3 was built around the RMAH - but now it's time to see them change their philosophy and they need to actually give the people what they want. I made this thread over 2 weeks ago and I've been bumping it pretty frequently. It's about the unprotected trade window which is incredibly susceptible to scamming. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6080179368?page=1 It's a VERY legitimate concern that should be at the top of their priorities because it's a big problem that requires very little effort to fix. Yet Blizzard never addresses those concerns, ever - because having a safe trade window doesn't increase their RMAH profits. Many of the problems about D3 make me think that Blizzard is greedy and they think they can get away with screwing their customers with a bad product. That's bad but it happens. This particular problem with the trade window makes me think that Blizzard is actual vile and fucking despicable. I'm ashamed to have bought the CE of Diablo 3. Blizzard was always a business, but it used to be good to its fans. Now it went full out corporate bullshit and it's riding the wave of old-blizzard's fantastic products and the brand-loyalty that they earned in the past. They no longer feel like they need to earn that brand loyalty, or at the very least they don't work for it at this point. Blizzard used to take you out on nice dates - romantic dinner and all. You always knew that Blizzard only ever was nice to you to get in your pants, but at least it was pleasant, and you put out for it. It was a mutually enjoyable relationship. But now Blizzard takes you for granted, so it's putting on weight and won't take you out. Blizzard barely showers, and when he feels romantic he orders a pizza. He knows you'll put out regardless, because you've been together for a long time and you've forgotten how nice it was at first. And you can just feel Blizzard ramming your bottom as you eat that disgusting pizza from Pizza Hut - it's okay though. It's Blizzard's favorite. I broke up with Blizzard after (not because of) WC3 and D2, stop wasting your life. So little sympathy for the abused harem of housewives Blizzard has that support his nasty lifestyle~ BW might even become abandonware if Blizzard starts having to live on the streets. Although I really don't want to attribute BW to the current Blizzard. It is more like some filthy cockroach killed Blizzard and wore its skin as a suit. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
Men in Black? God I wish I had a neuralizer so I can forget all about SC2 and D3 | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
Looking back makes me feel old for no reason, although I do agree with the topic, blizzard is way worse as company players rather than it was a decade ago. Pity. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
First, while there has been some turnover among game designers, as you'd expect over fifteen years in any company, a healthy number of the people who worked on any Blizzard title you want to pick still work there in key roles. Taking D3 as an example, the lead software engineer, Jason Regier, who was about as central to that game's design team as anyone, also worked as a developer on D2. Chris Sigaty worked on both Starcraft and Starcraft 2. Sam Didier has been involved in just about every game Blizzard has made. Those are just three examples but there are many more. Across all their job categories, art, production management, game design, support, Blizzard has retained a large number of the people who worked there in the 90s. They're still the same people and they still have the same motivations. Yes, some of their designers have left, but not all of them, and it's not as though the "bad" ones have stayed while the "good" ones have left. Second -- On August 02 2012 01:06 Barrin wrote: Money? The idea that the RMAH is going to be some huge (or even a net profitable) moneymaker for Blizzard is something everyone slings around but nobody's really thought through. Except for the people at Blizzard -- I guarantee you they've thought it through, and they quite certainly realized before they committed to it that there's zero chance that the RMAH will make any substantial amount of money for Blizzard. Blizzard's revenue is in the $100 million a month range, and to make even 1% of that, the RMAH would require that they have 100,000 crazy D3 players spending $70 EVERY MONTH on items (because remember, they only get 15%.) It just isn't going to happen. Why did they add the RMAH? Conveniently, they came out and said why: because they expected the real money trade to be important to the game as it was for D2, and they wanted to offer a trustworthy alternative to 3rd party sites. Of course most of the people I see talk about this issue on the Internet assume that's a lie and that it really was meant to be some great moneymaking scheme driven by (literally) millions of people willing to spend more than their cable bill on imaginary items every month. Like I say, that simply will never happen. So what has changed about Blizzard? The thing that actually has changed for Blizzard, along with the rest of the game industry, is that the scale of a top-quality title has increased enormously. Crew sizes have increased, costs have increased, technical complexity has gone nuts, and expectations for the technical quality (excluding how entertaining the game itself is) have increased. In big and small ways, this makes people play it safe with design choices, even when they don't realize they're doing it. Despite Blizzard's approach of implementing a game a certain way, trying it out, then chucking it when it doesn't work, the greatly increased costs allow fewer iterations and developers gravitate toward choices that are seen as less technically or creatively risky. Despite that Blizzard has done quite well at retaining their core team from long ago, this change, plus the huge influx of revenue from World of Warcraft, which was the kind of unpredictable event for which nobody can ever plan, has allowed and encouraged Blizzard to grow enormously, bringing in (literally) thousands of additional employees. Managing this kind of growth and ensuring that the culture remains recognizable is a mind-boggling task. I know from friends who have worked there and have seen this growth arc with their own eyes that the huge influx of people necessarily altered how people interacted and how work gets done. In a small team, 20 or 30 people, everyone can know everyone else and everyone can be involved in every major discussion. When the team pushes a few hundred, that just can't happen. Work gets divided up and the few people who can touch all of it only get to scratch the surface. Why do you think that SC2's game director Dustin Browder sometimes sounds like he's a little out of touch to the professional players and engaged fans who have committed their lives to SC2? The guy's clearly brilliant but being responsible for the entire game means that he can't have comprehensive, deep knowledge of every little aspect of it. Other people dig deep into one problem or another while someone in his position, necessarily, has to put in a little time here, a little time there, so while he's involved, and consulted, he's never going to be THE expert on any one aspect of their game. So, the biggest challenge Blizzard faces today that didn't exist 15 years ago for them is one of diffusion of responsibility and product "ownership" by their development teams. How do they try to make a top-quality product when no one person can keep all the issues and technical details in their head at once, unlike before? It's a huge challenge. And yeah, if something has changed with Blizzard's products, if they seem somehow a little more generic, a little more designed by committee, a little more averaged-out, well, yeah, of course they are. But, that's not the result of incompetence, avarice, or a change in the audience they'd like to target. Instead, it's been forced upon them by how the game development world has changed. It's been an accident of their success and a side effect of the ability that success has given them to reach for something much larger in scale (technically and artistically, if not from a player experience standpoint) than what they did before. And, when you get right down to it, it's never going to be 1998 again, not for Blizzard or for anyone else in the game industry. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
In the world of gaming, we oftentimes hear about the "vocal minority" that whines about games - but the people who think D3 is crap is not merely a vocal minority. So what's your angle really? Those products suck but it's ok because that's how it is now? Because that's what it looks like you're saying to me. Also note that every sale gives Blizzard $1+15% and not just 15%, and a large portion of the sales stays in Battle.net currency which Blizzard technically keeps in their coffers. While it's not theirs per se, it's good liquidity. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6080179368?page=9#166 This guy had something interesting to say: Player: "look here is a fire" CM: please report all fires. Player: *points to the fire* "its right here" CM: we respect your concerns for fires. Please report all fires. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 01 2012 03:42 Salv wrote: Some people argue that D3 is still the best dungeon crawl, Starcraft II is still the best RTS amazing despite it's massive flaws, WOW is still the best MMO. That's all probably (or close enough to being) true, but relative to what we expect out of Blizzard, these games are disappointments (less so WOW, this new one is par for the course). People expect a lot from Blizzard, and they shit the bed a bit on SC2 with their awful replay system, no chat channels, no LAN, etc; however they really fucked up with Diablo III, I don't know anyone who is still playing it besides a couple people who are making some money off the RMAH - but even they admit they don't enjoy it. Some people? Good thing it's only some people right and I would assume many of them don't know any better because all they do is spend time playing Blizzard titles. Guess what? I've played my fair share of Blizzard titles too and you probably could say I'm a Blizzard loyalist but that doesn't mean I don't check out what else is out there too and I disagree when it comes down to their products getting better and what you think their best titles are. Completely subjective. Just like mine and you know what? There is no majority. As for Barrin, Not like this is anything new man. It really goes back to like 2007. Remember that thread? I know there were a lot of guys going "Oh crap, here comes the Activision machine. | ||
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