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On July 14 2012 08:09 Juliette wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 08:00 ZapRoffo wrote:
Ayn Rand is pretty much anathema in the world of educated people, liking her loses more than gains you respect among most post-high school intellectuals. Her ideals (like great men going off into their isolation and forming a paradise) are generally just very dated compared to what the modern world is like now where everything is interconnected and collaborative (and especially since the 2000's Wall Street fiasco IMO), and its regarded as pretty much selfish, callous libertarian fantasy with a not very rigorously defined or defended outline of a philosophy attached. Plus her writing is totally functional which gives something like Atlas Shrugged no real artistic resonance as a novel. But it's good to figure out these things on your own rather than just taking people's words for it. So read away if it's seems worthwhile. But also play Bioshock, one of the most awesome pieces of literary criticism ever.
On writing notes, I would just do it where you are naturally pausing to think things over while you read anyway. At least that's what I do, if there's anything I really want to think over, I naturally stop reading anyway, and I read passages multiple times on my first read through anyway.
Pride and Prejudice is really fun though. Also Firefly, the final episode Objects in Space is pretty much one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen, so you have to finish it. so I just noticed I've been spelling her name wrong forever. lol. Its still an interesting read, for me, even if I do or don't agree with her philosophy. reading for the sake of reading I suppose, and its been enjoyable no matter what her message (or, I guess, lack of) is. I'll see if I agree or not when I finish :p. I'm a chapter (or section or whatever) into P&P though I know the story already, I'll still finish it. That's #2 for firefly, I'll resume it once season 1 of Arrested Development is done. And noted, for notes.
Hmm. I never got that detailed with my dislike of Ayn Rand - mostly I detest the writing style used. It's worse than translated Russian masterpieces or late 19th century styles. It simply doesn't draw me in at all. And rational self-interest as a philosophy only goes so far.
Also, I'm somewhat shocked you haven't already read Pride and Prejudice. Schools have changed, man.
Hmm. I don't take notes, but when reading something which resonates or makes a solid point to me, I will often re-read the book. Although, to be honest, I don't spend a lot of time trying to delve inside the book - I will assume that the cigar is just a cigar and read on unless it's a work specifically written as a criticism or satire. At least the first time through. (A thought that really didn't make my English teacher very happy - "What if that poem is really just about how his love is like a red red rose? And was written during spring, when he watched it bloom? Not any of that deep metaphysical stuff you're stretching to attribute to it?")
Then again, I've read best-selling authors talking in depth about the writing process, and it doesn't really match what many English teachers and academic literature writers have said. (That is my opinion of course.)
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On July 14 2012 08:31 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 08:09 Juliette wrote:On July 14 2012 08:00 ZapRoffo wrote:
Ayn Rand is pretty much anathema in the world of educated people, liking her loses more than gains you respect among most post-high school intellectuals. Her ideals (like great men going off into their isolation and forming a paradise) are generally just very dated compared to what the modern world is like now where everything is interconnected and collaborative (and especially since the 2000's Wall Street fiasco IMO), and its regarded as pretty much selfish, callous libertarian fantasy with a not very rigorously defined or defended outline of a philosophy attached. Plus her writing is totally functional which gives something like Atlas Shrugged no real artistic resonance as a novel. But it's good to figure out these things on your own rather than just taking people's words for it. So read away if it's seems worthwhile. But also play Bioshock, one of the most awesome pieces of literary criticism ever.
On writing notes, I would just do it where you are naturally pausing to think things over while you read anyway. At least that's what I do, if there's anything I really want to think over, I naturally stop reading anyway, and I read passages multiple times on my first read through anyway.
Pride and Prejudice is really fun though. Also Firefly, the final episode Objects in Space is pretty much one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen, so you have to finish it. so I just noticed I've been spelling her name wrong forever. lol. Its still an interesting read, for me, even if I do or don't agree with her philosophy. reading for the sake of reading I suppose, and its been enjoyable no matter what her message (or, I guess, lack of) is. I'll see if I agree or not when I finish :p. I'm a chapter (or section or whatever) into P&P though I know the story already, I'll still finish it. That's #2 for firefly, I'll resume it once season 1 of Arrested Development is done. And noted, for notes. Hmm. I never got that detailed with my dislike of Ayn Rand - mostly I detest the writing style used. It's worse than translated Russian masterpieces or late 19th century styles. It simply doesn't draw me in at all. And rational self-interest as a philosophy only goes so far. Also, I'm somewhat shocked you haven't already read Pride and Prejudice. Schools have changed, man. Hmm. I don't take notes, but when reading something which resonates or makes a solid point to me, I will often re-read the book. Although, to be honest, I don't spend a lot of time trying to delve inside the book - I will assume that the cigar is just a cigar and read on unless it's a work specifically written as a criticism or satire. At least the first time through. (A thought that really didn't make my English teacher very happy - "What if that poem is really just about how his love is like a red red rose? And was written during spring, when he watched it bloom? Not any of that deep metaphysical stuff you're stretching to attribute to it?") Then again, I've read best-selling authors talking in depth about the writing process, and it doesn't really match what many English teachers and academic literature writers have said. (That is my opinion of course.)
huh. am i too liberal or too conservative. or just fucked up and need more reading. not to devolve the thread into a conversation about Rand, but I like the writing style, though I don't think I could give a reason why if asked. As for self interest, Its still relevant. Can't just expect handouts and be reliant on the good will of others. I mean of course its silly to live on that because other people are important of course. on the other hand I'm not done with the novel.
i was supposed to, I picked it as my independent reading novel, but never actually finished it. I could make excuses, like we were reading 2 books at once and I was a lazy fuck but I'll just leave it at that :p.
And yeah not everything has metaphysical elements. but its amusing to pretend sometimes, lol.
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Very often I think things aren't supposed to be directly symbolizing something else in literature, they are just details that seem very descriptive and carry a lot of weight in summing up the whole picture. Like what kind of cigar or how someone handles a cigar is suggestive of what sort of background they are from, what sort of social set they belong to without directly writing that stuff as exposition, but it's stuff you sort of have to be in touch with the social scene of the era to get in that case. Like if I now just described a guy as a guy sitting at a fair trade coffee shop with an iPad, indie band t-shirt and skinny jeans, a lot more is conveyed than just hey, it's an informal day and he's thirsty for coffee and there's some description for window dressing, but nothing is an overt symbol for anything.
I don't think it's that often that authors are directly thinking of one symbol being for one other direct thing; they are thinking of it as one understanding, but it can't be the exclusive way to understand whatever the image is. That would usually be just facile and poor writing.
On improving yourself, most of the time I've found it's the sort of thing that it makes no difference whether you try to do it, or you just live, let go of the striving and then reflect on what happens. You still learn and grow either way, it's just one way puts a bunch of pressure on yourself and the other way not as much. Cause there are so many different ways you improve yourself--one of which is acquiring a lot of information or experiences with art or books, one of which is physical conditioning, but there are so many other dimensions too--that there's no real path to doing it. It's more just an attitude that however you go about living, knowing you'll grow and understand more as you go, and you'll improve what you truly want to improve. And right now I'm thinking of Alanis Morissette You Learn, hehe.
I'm all about avoiding putting a lot of pressure on myself, but that's me, so I think of things in that sort of more Tao way. So for me the only thing I should be doing is being a decent person to people and doing whatever that requires (sometimes it's complex to figure out or a big, life changing undertaking) and otherwise my guideline is what I want to be doing instead of what I should be doing. It's made things so much more pleasant for me.
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I'm out of college and Slaughter-House Five is still on my to-do reading list. High five! Right?
But why do you want to read Pride and Prejudice?
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On July 14 2012 11:02 ZapRoffo wrote:
On improving yourself, most of the time I've found it's the sort of thing that it makes no difference whether you try to do it, or you just live, let go of the striving and then reflect on what happens. You still learn and grow either way, it's just one way puts a bunch of pressure on yourself and the other way not as much.
I'll keep that in mind, too. 
On July 14 2012 11:12 Newbistic wrote:
I'm out of college and Slaughter-House Five is still on my to-do reading list. High five! Right?
But why do you want to read Pride and Prejudice?
Haha nice.
At first, it was a group independent reading book for my third quarter of ap lit. I never got to finish it, but I did like the book, so now I wanna get it done because I enjoyed reading what parts of it there were. Austen's writing is fun, I like the story, and I only got to watch the movie for what I know of the plot (which, as awesome as it was with kiera knightly, isn't the same experience).
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EPT
