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On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid  Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you.
Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand.
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On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand.
Not at all! I've simply read him, I never studied him (well I did, but very briefly).
(If I may ask, are you in high school, by any chance?)
Oh, here is a very, very short excerpt of Nietzsche's "clear and concise" work :
10.
This had Zarathustra said to his heart when the sun stood at
noon-tide. Then he looked inquiringly aloft,- for he heard above him
the sharp call of a bird. And behold! An eagle swept through the air
in wide circles, and on it hung a serpent, not like a prey, but like a
friend: for it kept itself coiled round the eagle's neck.
"They are mine animals," said Zarathustra, and rejoiced in his
heart.
"The proudest animal under the sun, and the wisest animal under
the sun,- they have come out to reconnoitre.
They want to know whether Zarathustra still liveth. Verily, do I
still live?
More dangerous have I found it among men than among animals; in
dangerous paths goeth Zarathustra. Let mine animals lead me!
When Zarathustra had said this, he remembered the words of the saint
in the forest. Then he sighed and spake thus to his heart:
"Would that I were wiser! Would that I were wise from the very
heart, like my serpent!
But I am asking the impossible. Therefore do I ask my pride to go
always with my wisdom!
And if my wisdom should some day forsake me:- alas! it loveth to fly
away!- may my pride then fly with my folly!"
Thus began Zarathustra's down-going.
Can you do a very short analysis of it?
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On July 09 2012 00:22 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. Not at all! I've simply read him, I never studied him (well I did, but very briefly). (If I may ask, are you in high school, by any chance?)
No i'm not in high school, why do you ask?
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On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand.
This is what someone who has read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and not "Ecce Homo" or "The Gay Science" would say. To be frank, whenever anyone starts labeling works by authors such as Nietsche as "clear and concise", that is a good indication that they are full of shit.
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On July 09 2012 00:15 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 23:51 sluggaslamoo wrote:
The joke isn't funny because it doesn't make any sense. Just like how its not funny if an Atheist started selling tea shirts saying "The world was left in the hands of 2 acid-tripping dumb naked teenagers and now they are dead, thank god".
The people that don't get the joke, needs someone to explain it for them. The people that get the joke, know what the phrase actually meant, so its not funny. The people that laugh at it, don't get the joke. The joke being that it was not what the church intended. Actually the joke is funny because they don't understand it in the first place! Take my quote for example, it's from a poem by Aragon and the first part loosely means "what is long for someone may be short for someone else". If I put it on a t-shirt, I could sell it to slutty sorority girls, and the only reason they would find it funny is because they don't understand in the first place! If you explain it, it's less funny than if you don't, because it doesn't even closely relate to phallic objects in the original context.
I agree with you, but I don't think its funny to joke about the death of an iconic figure. I guess the problem I really see, is that rather than being a joke, its an act of revenge.
"what is long for someone may be short for someone else", nothing wrong with that. Its almost but not to this extreme, as if a white supremist joked about the death of Martin Luther King. Because in essence, that is how it really is, Christians celebrating the death of an Anti-Theist. I think it crossed the line, just a little bit.
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On July 09 2012 00:26 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:22 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. Not at all! I've simply read him, I never studied him (well I did, but very briefly). (If I may ask, are you in high school, by any chance?) No i'm not in high school, why do you ask?
I was trying to guess your age (18, right?).
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On July 09 2012 00:28 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. This is what someone who has read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and not "Ecce Homo" or "The Gay Science" would say. To be frank, whenever anyone starts labeling works by authors such as Nietsche as "clear and concise", that is a good indication that they are full of shit.
My point is there are obvious things Nietzsche wants you to take away form his work, and in that sense, his writing is concise. nice ad hominem though.
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On July 09 2012 00:28 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. This is what someone who has read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and not "Ecce Homo" or "The Gay Science" would say. To be frank, whenever anyone starts labeling works by authors such as Nietsche as "clear and concise", that is a good indication that they are full of shit.
I did philosophy in my final years of highschool (Socrates/Plato/Nietzsche/Kant all that good stuff), so really I probably know jack shit about philosophy. But I know enough to know that Nietzsche's passage on "God is dead" was no where near as complicated as trying to interpret the bible. Hell I even partly remember what he meant by it.
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Ok, here's my partial take on the issue. I've read 3 books (but I confess my complete lack of understanding of Zarathustra...). What I personnally find ironic in that t-shirt is that while Nietzsche has some pretty bad words for christians, he is even harsher on modern atheism. That being said, it's just a joke, not a very good one imho, but you're taking this way too harshly imho.
Also I think I read some page back a classic reminder of the Nazi/Nietzsche relationship. I'd like to say that the main link between Nazi's and Nietzsche is his sister, who went as far as basically faslifiying a book (The will to power) to link the two ideology... I specifically remember reading a passage (in Twilight of the idols I believe) where Nietzsche more or less shit on the German nationalists and anti-Semits of his days. Nazis oviously tried to draw what they wanted from his philosophy, but for me that's just a perversion and that doesn't detract much from him.
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On July 09 2012 00:31 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:28 farvacola wrote:On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. This is what someone who has read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and not "Ecce Homo" or "The Gay Science" would say. To be frank, whenever anyone starts labeling works by authors such as Nietsche as "clear and concise", that is a good indication that they are full of shit. My point is there are obvious things Nietzsche wants you to take away form his work, and in that sense, his writing is concise. nice ad hominem though.
The problem with this approach to Nietzsche is that it ignores his constant self-revision, the man famously backtracked and restated a great many important points throughout his life in a variety of ways. Like I said, you can cherry-pick works and then claim that understanding them is easy (which is a rather silly venture) or you can actually tackle the very difficult progression of Nietzsche's thought process. I mean't no offense, but reading "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and stopping there is like reading Kant's "Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals" and claiming full knowledge of German Idealism.
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Don't like the "it's just a joke" defense for inaccuracy. Jokes are serious business.
Edit: i get my philosophy from Frank Yang. Look him up.
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On July 09 2012 00:46 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:31 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:28 farvacola wrote:On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. This is what someone who has read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and not "Ecce Homo" or "The Gay Science" would say. To be frank, whenever anyone starts labeling works by authors such as Nietsche as "clear and concise", that is a good indication that they are full of shit. My point is there are obvious things Nietzsche wants you to take away form his work, and in that sense, his writing is concise. nice ad hominem though. The problem with this approach to Nietzsche is that it ignores his constant self-revision, the man famously backtracked and restated a great many important points throughout his life in a variety of ways. Like I said, you can cherry-pick works and then claim that understanding them is easy (which is a rather silly venture) or you can actually tackle the very difficult progression of Nietzsche's thought process. I mean't no offense, but reading "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and stopping there is like reading Kant's "Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals" and claiming full knowledge of German Idealism.
I would go as far as saying that reading Zarathustra and stopping there while not understading everything but yet claiming to have understood what is essential is like reading Kant's Groundworks, extracting a couple of concepts and calling it a closed deal.
Philosophy is a constant exploration, if something is clear, then it can not be concise, for it should call for many, many other questions. This is why writing and reading philosophy is such a slow, tedious process : you must read between the lines. For example, when Deleuze speaks of "notions" and "images", he isn't using the common definition and associates many, many other concepts with those, giving a whole new meaning to his sentence when seen with educated eyes.
Kuja, do you really believe that Nietzsche's work is so poor that it can be crystal clear to a teenager?
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can god create a rock he cannot lift?
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On July 09 2012 00:28 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:18 Kuja wrote:On July 09 2012 00:17 Kukaracha wrote:On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote:So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you. Are you implying that your one of them? Nobody ever said they perfectly understand everything Nietzsche wrote, just that he has made clear and concise points that are easy to understand. This is what someone who has read "Thus Spake Zarathustra" and not "Ecce Homo" or "The Gay Science" would say. To be frank, whenever anyone starts labeling works by authors such as Nietsche as "clear and concise", that is a good indication that they are full of shit.
I agree with this 100% lol Also I find most people are misunderstanding the OP as well. Although putting the shirt in question next to "Jesus is my homeboy" makes it hard to think you should take it so seriously.
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On July 09 2012 01:54 darthfoley wrote:
can god create a rock he cannot lift?
can god make a burito that hot that he cannot eat it?
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On July 09 2012 01:54 darthfoley wrote:
can god create a rock he cannot lift?
No she can't
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On July 08 2012 21:56 Xiron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 21:23 krndandaman wrote:On July 08 2012 21:16 Xiron wrote:On July 08 2012 20:55 krndandaman wrote:
nietzsche said god is dead
nietzsche died in 1900
god decides who dies and when therefore he gets the last laugh by saying nietzsche is dead . So, it's an insider for christians who want to laugh about someone who challenged their point of view.. Funny, I laughed........ O.o Christian X says 'God will save me' - Yesterday Rational Y says 'I just killed Christian X' - Today LOL it's funny because X said he will be saved by god but in the end he still died LOLOL ...... o.O Some people have a retarded sense of humor. wow way to be uptight and pretentious lol I just turned it the other way around and it's just not funny at all. If there are people who laugh about 'Nietzsche is dead', then they should be laughing about my 'joke' aswell, right? Otherwise they are religious fanatics who laugh at Nietzsche, trying to downgrade a man who was a genius. Making fun of someone to discredit them is never funny.
It's all in the delivery. Your joke wasn't clever at all, it's way too blunt. Frame it like this and you get something a lot better.
I think both jokes are hilarious, but even if I didn't, it would just be a matter of taste. Nothing to write home about.
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Lol, that shirt is just a joke... Don't see how you can take it seriously.
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Wow why are atheist always so intolerant and judgemental?
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On July 09 2012 00:44 corumjhaelen wrote:
Ok, here's my partial take on the issue. I've read 3 books (but I confess my complete lack of understanding of Zarathustra...). What I personnally find ironic in that t-shirt is that while Nietzsche has some pretty bad words for christians, he is even harsher on modern atheism. That being said, it's just a joke, not a very good one imho, but you're taking this way too harshly imho.
Also I think I read some page back a classic reminder of the Nazi/Nietzsche relationship. I'd like to say that the main link between Nazi's and Nietzsche is his sister, who went as far as basically faslifiying a book (The will to power) to link the two ideology... I specifically remember reading a passage (in Twilight of the idols I believe) where Nietzsche more or less shit on the German nationalists and anti-Semits of his days. Nazis oviously tried to draw what they wanted from his philosophy, but for me that's just a perversion and that doesn't detract much from him.
The Overman and the Will to power being linked to Nazi ideology is a corruption of the original thought, the whole thing is a complete contradiction to the principles of play and resistance necessary for the Overman.
With regards to the quote, yes its often misused and misunderstood, and the joke on the shirt is terrible, but maybe whoever decided to print it thought it would be hilariously ironic, as the people that would buy the shirt would be signalling to the world their lack of comprehension of the topic? More cynically, its likely just someone wanting to make some money, and putting something like that will make these types of people buy these shirts, the profit margin is huge.
I enjoy reading his work, but really don't get why you would be bothered by something as trivial as writing on a T-shirt at a Christian Rock concert.
Also to the people that wish to state that his work is clear and concise and that they get it, I'll use a Richard Feynman quote on quantum mechanics to illustrate my point: "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics."
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EPT
