On July 08 2012 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: dude, it's a hilarious joke. nothing more.. that you are so offended merely shows me that religious groups don't have a monopoly on unwarranted feelings of being offended.
Yeah but the joke doesn't make any sense when you understand what Nietzsche really meant by that.
It was 5 years ago so my knowledge on philosophy is really fuzzy now, but I think the full quote is something like
God is dead, humans killed him.
Nietsche wasn't trying to be facetious about it. He was trying to explain how humans have forgotten the true purpose of religion or something like that. That's why its so ironic, its actually hilarious that the church is selling those shirts because it makes them look like complete fools. They may as well just have shirts saying "I am retarded" and have sold those instead.
Because atheists that makes jokes about religion understand anything about it? That quote is a Joke dude. Its a play on words taken out of context.Its funny, live with it.
Also, what explicit misinterpretations of philosophy, science, and mathematics are used in atheist quotes? There are plenty used in religious quotes (especially when it comes to evolution, the big bang, the definition of "theory", clearly Nietsche, and plenty of others).
I would argue that most atheists and most believers don't understand religion from a theological point of view.
I recommend everyone should watch Religulous. This guy was born and raised in a christian family, knows more about christianity than most christians do, yet is an atheist.
You know this guy doesn't believe in vaccination, right?
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
On July 08 2012 23:16 Kukaracha wrote: My question being : what justifies this negative bias towards the "holy book"?
I can't speak for others, but my negative bias towards the bible comes from the possibilty to arbitrarily choose, what parts of the bible are to be taken literal, and what parts are metaphorical.
On July 08 2012 23:22 koreasilver wrote: And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
On July 08 2012 23:16 Kukaracha wrote: My question being : what justifies this negative bias towards the "holy book"?
I can't speak for others, but my negative bias towards the bible comes from the possibilty to arbitrarily choose, what parts of the bible are to be taken literal, and what parts are metaphorical.
I agree with this criticism, but it is a delicate one since a careful exegesis could unscover a logical system within the book that might give the right directions in its interpretation, thus elevating the debate above a layman's reach. This essentially is the gap between theology and our perspective.
I would say that it doesn't really justify the usual contempt held towards the Bible, but it does justify passive skepticism (which is a rare attitude among atheists).
On July 08 2012 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: dude, it's a hilarious joke. nothing more.. that you are so offended merely shows me that religious groups don't have a monopoly on unwarranted feelings of being offended.
Yeah but the joke doesn't make any sense when you understand what Nietzsche really meant by that.
It was 5 years ago so my knowledge on philosophy is really fuzzy now, but I think the full quote is something like
God is dead, humans killed him.
Nietsche wasn't trying to be facetious about it. He was trying to explain how humans have forgotten the true purpose of religion or something like that. That's why its so ironic, its actually hilarious that the church is selling those shirts because it makes them look like complete fools. They may as well just have shirts saying "I am retarded" and have sold those instead.
Because atheists that makes jokes about religion understand anything about it? That quote is a Joke dude. Its a play on words taken out of context.Its funny, live with it.
Also, what explicit misinterpretations of philosophy, science, and mathematics are used in atheist quotes? There are plenty used in religious quotes (especially when it comes to evolution, the big bang, the definition of "theory", clearly Nietsche, and plenty of others).
I would argue that most atheists and most believers don't understand religion from a theological point of view.
I recommend everyone should watch Religulous. This guy was born and raised in a christian family, knows more about christianity than most christians do, yet is an atheist.
You know this guy doesn't believe in vaccination, right?
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit
Nietzsche was clear and concise. The point is the Zarathustra is only a small part of Nietsche's writings, the rest of what he writes is completely clear cut. In Christianity people only have the bible.
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
So basically you judge whether someone is right or wrong based on their personality?
the "god is dead" quote is the exact reason why many young atheists oftentimes get infatuated with nietzsche. I myself went around spouting that exact quote when I was 14 or whatever, because I was undergoing the "missonary" stage of atheism, where I wanted to prove to christians that I'm smarter than them because I have figured out something they haven't / present them logical fallacies in their belief systems. Variations of these behavioral patterns are extremely common among like, ahtiests who are beginning to realize what they actually believe in - just like the christian who just found god wants everyone else to take part of their newfound happiness.
But anyway, knowing that many young atheists frequently (mis)use that quote, I think the "Nietzsche is dead - God" reply is genuinely witty and clever.
On July 08 2012 23:10 sluggaslamoo wrote: No I mean you should just watch it to see how most christians even ministers don't even understand their own religion
Well, I was 16 when I read up about Nietzsche, and the "God is dead" part is one of the first things you read about as it is the foundation for a lot of his writings. I'm pretty sure it was one of the most clear cut, straight to the point message that I had ever read.
At least it made a lot more sense than
"... And the talking snake said to Eve, here, eat this magical apple!".
Oh, that I agree. The Bible being a very odd piece of literature, the concept of "understanding" is always challenged.
And Nietzsche's other works are very clear, I'm only talking about Zarathustra specifically.
On July 08 2012 23:16 Kuja wrote: What kind of argument is that? I can take a random excerpt out of virtually anything and post it and it wouldn't make sense. So your saying random excerpts without any context are supposed to make sense?
You usually expect philosophy to make sense, especially when you take a couple of paragraphs. Even a single sentence should provide some sort of content. Nietzsche's Zarathustra is known as a more poetic and less rigorous approach to his concepts.
The point here is that there is a negative bias towards the Bible, leading many people to an exclusively literal analysis. However, if you did a similar exegesis of Zarathustra, then you would have a weird and boring tale about an old man witnessing random events, wouldn't you? My question being : what justifies this negative bias towards the "holy book"?
I don't understand the motive for the question though. I still somewhat remember what Nietsche meant by God is dead 5 years ago, even though I've been to church quite a few times going through bible scriptures on holidays and don't remember any passages from the bible.
The joke isn't funny because it doesn't make any sense. Just like how its not funny if an Atheist started selling tea shirts saying "The world was left in the hands of 2 acid-tripping dumb naked teenagers and now they are dead, thank god".
The people that don't get the joke, needs someone to explain it for them. The people that get the joke, know what the phrase actually meant, so its not funny. The people that laugh at it, don't get the joke. The joke being that it was not what the church intended.
On July 08 2012 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: dude, it's a hilarious joke. nothing more.. that you are so offended merely shows me that religious groups don't have a monopoly on unwarranted feelings of being offended.
Yeah but the joke doesn't make any sense when you understand what Nietzsche really meant by that.
It was 5 years ago so my knowledge on philosophy is really fuzzy now, but I think the full quote is something like
God is dead, humans killed him.
Nietsche wasn't trying to be facetious about it. He was trying to explain how humans have forgotten the true purpose of religion or something like that. That's why its so ironic, its actually hilarious that the church is selling those shirts because it makes them look like complete fools. They may as well just have shirts saying "I am retarded" and have sold those instead.
Because atheists that makes jokes about religion understand anything about it? That quote is a Joke dude. Its a play on words taken out of context.Its funny, live with it.
Also, what explicit misinterpretations of philosophy, science, and mathematics are used in atheist quotes? There are plenty used in religious quotes (especially when it comes to evolution, the big bang, the definition of "theory", clearly Nietsche, and plenty of others).
I would argue that most atheists and most believers don't understand religion from a theological point of view.
I recommend everyone should watch Religulous. This guy was born and raised in a christian family, knows more about christianity than most christians do, yet is an atheist.
You know this guy doesn't believe in vaccination, right?
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit
Nietzsche was clear and concise. The point is the Zarathustra is only a small part of Nietsche's writings, the rest of what he writes is completely clear cut. In Christianity people only have the bible.
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
So basically you judge whether someone is right or wrong based on their personality?
No, I can judge whether someone is full of shit or not by referring to the most important part that you censored out my quote. He doesn't believe in vaccination. That's pretty much all the reason I need. Maher says a ton of shit about literally every topic and he just pushes it through with dogged arrogance and stupid stubbornness that is supported by his ragged fan cult. He's an idiot.
I never said that Nietzsche's other writings weren't "clear". He was a polemicist and he was very good at it, and I read him regularly. But again, you misread me as I was only speaking about Zarathustra in particular. Your attempts at misconstruing me is quite pathetic.
On July 08 2012 23:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: the "god is dead" quote is the exact reason why many young atheists oftentimes get infatuated with nietzsche. I myself went around spouting that exact quote when I was 14 or whatever, because I was undergoing the "missonary" stage of atheism, where I wanted to prove to christians that I'm smarter than them because I have figured out something they haven't / present them logical fallacies in their belief systems. Variations of these behavioral patterns are extremely common among like, ahtiests who are beginning to realize what they actually believe in - just like the christian who just found god wants everyone else to take part of their newfound happiness.
But anyway, knowing that many young atheists frequently (mis)use that quote, I think the "Nietzsche is dead - God" reply is genuinely witty and clever.
On July 08 2012 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: dude, it's a hilarious joke. nothing more.. that you are so offended merely shows me that religious groups don't have a monopoly on unwarranted feelings of being offended.
Yeah but the joke doesn't make any sense when you understand what Nietzsche really meant by that.
It was 5 years ago so my knowledge on philosophy is really fuzzy now, but I think the full quote is something like
God is dead, humans killed him.
Nietsche wasn't trying to be facetious about it. He was trying to explain how humans have forgotten the true purpose of religion or something like that. That's why its so ironic, its actually hilarious that the church is selling those shirts because it makes them look like complete fools. They may as well just have shirts saying "I am retarded" and have sold those instead.
Because atheists that makes jokes about religion understand anything about it? That quote is a Joke dude. Its a play on words taken out of context.Its funny, live with it.
Also, what explicit misinterpretations of philosophy, science, and mathematics are used in atheist quotes? There are plenty used in religious quotes (especially when it comes to evolution, the big bang, the definition of "theory", clearly Nietsche, and plenty of others).
I would argue that most atheists and most believers don't understand religion from a theological point of view.
I recommend everyone should watch Religulous. This guy was born and raised in a christian family, knows more about christianity than most christians do, yet is an atheist.
You know this guy doesn't believe in vaccination, right?
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
Exactly my point, the fact that you can so easily come to that conclusion proves how clear and concise that point was.
On July 08 2012 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: dude, it's a hilarious joke. nothing more.. that you are so offended merely shows me that religious groups don't have a monopoly on unwarranted feelings of being offended.
Yeah but the joke doesn't make any sense when you understand what Nietzsche really meant by that.
It was 5 years ago so my knowledge on philosophy is really fuzzy now, but I think the full quote is something like
God is dead, humans killed him.
Nietsche wasn't trying to be facetious about it. He was trying to explain how humans have forgotten the true purpose of religion or something like that. That's why its so ironic, its actually hilarious that the church is selling those shirts because it makes them look like complete fools. They may as well just have shirts saying "I am retarded" and have sold those instead.
Because atheists that makes jokes about religion understand anything about it? That quote is a Joke dude. Its a play on words taken out of context.Its funny, live with it.
Also, what explicit misinterpretations of philosophy, science, and mathematics are used in atheist quotes? There are plenty used in religious quotes (especially when it comes to evolution, the big bang, the definition of "theory", clearly Nietsche, and plenty of others).
I would argue that most atheists and most believers don't understand religion from a theological point of view.
I recommend everyone should watch Religulous. This guy was born and raised in a christian family, knows more about christianity than most christians do, yet is an atheist.
You know this guy doesn't believe in vaccination, right?
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
Exactly my point, the fact that you can so easily come to that conclusion proves how clear and concise that point was.
TIL the Bible is clear and concise. Guess Kierkegaard was right after all.
Obviously it's pointless to even talk to you about Zarathustra in particular. If Zarathustra was so "clear and concise" as you claim, then there wouldn't be so many different interpretations of the text as a whole, and even more so for the various themes that are in it. But obviously you know more than the thousands of scholars that have worked at the text for the past century.
On July 08 2012 20:40 Liquid`Drone wrote: dude, it's a hilarious joke. nothing more.. that you are so offended merely shows me that religious groups don't have a monopoly on unwarranted feelings of being offended.
Yeah but the joke doesn't make any sense when you understand what Nietzsche really meant by that.
It was 5 years ago so my knowledge on philosophy is really fuzzy now, but I think the full quote is something like
God is dead, humans killed him.
Nietsche wasn't trying to be facetious about it. He was trying to explain how humans have forgotten the true purpose of religion or something like that. That's why its so ironic, its actually hilarious that the church is selling those shirts because it makes them look like complete fools. They may as well just have shirts saying "I am retarded" and have sold those instead.
Because atheists that makes jokes about religion understand anything about it? That quote is a Joke dude. Its a play on words taken out of context.Its funny, live with it.
Also, what explicit misinterpretations of philosophy, science, and mathematics are used in atheist quotes? There are plenty used in religious quotes (especially when it comes to evolution, the big bang, the definition of "theory", clearly Nietsche, and plenty of others).
I would argue that most atheists and most believers don't understand religion from a theological point of view.
I recommend everyone should watch Religulous. This guy was born and raised in a christian family, knows more about christianity than most christians do, yet is an atheist.
You know this guy doesn't believe in vaccination, right?
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit. The greatest humour that arises in this is that Zarathustra was written in a way to mirror and parody the Bible. Nietzsche purposely wrote it to be like the Bible. Fuck, people love to say all sort of shit.
And everyone that's saying that Zarathustra was "clear and concise" are all completely full of shit
Nietzsche was clear and concise. The point is the Zarathustra is only a small part of Nietsche's writings, the rest of what he writes is completely clear cut. In Christianity people only have the bible.
There is something extremely funny about you using this guy as an example. He's a first-rate self-righteous asshole. Have you ever seen his show? He leads a mini cult of personality. Even Hitchens was annoyed with him and his fans.
So basically you judge whether someone is right or wrong based on their personality?
No, I can judge whether someone is full of shit or not by referring to the most important part that you censored out my quote. He doesn't believe in vaccination. That's pretty much all the reason I need.
I never said that Nietzsche's other writings weren't "clear". He was a polemicist and he was very good at it, and I read him regularly. But again, you misread me as I was only speaking about Zarathustra in particular. Your attempts at misconstruing me is quite pathetic.
Wow calm down.
Bill Maher did not believe in "flu vaccines", not vaccines in general. A lot of people who believe in vaccines, don't believe in flu vaccines. His belief came from the statement from the FDA that said that flu vaccines were ineffective in preventing someone from catching the flu.
He was concerned that the evolution of the swine flu would negate the effects of the vaccine, therefore he was concerned about the potential for the vaccine to be a money grab, there is some merit to that. He also thought that swine flu was harmless. Yes I agree that he was wrong in the end because he failed to recognise that unlike normal flu's, the swine flue was quite a deadly virus, but in the end he runs a show that is about critical thinking. I think he was trying to look at the situation deeper than what was needed.
Also he wasn't entirely wrong. In the end, some people did suffer from the vaccine, with otherwise healthy people that were unlikely to die from swine flu. I don't know a lot of people who were vaccinated against swine flu, and I personally don't know anyone that has died from it. I do think it was over-hyped as an epidemic.
Does that mean Religulous has no merit? No, not at all. He knows far more about religion than he does about medicine. Also I never said people had to agree with it, I just recommended that people watch it. Most of it involves interviews with other people. Feel free to make up your own mind, but I think that many people would be hard pressed to disagree with a lot of the statements he makes.
I'm not misconstruing you, I'm bringing your point into the context of the argument. There was no reason for the Zarathustra to be brought into the argument in the first place. Apart from the Zarathustra everything that Nietsche said was pretty much straight to the point. Unlike the Zarathustra, the Bible is the primary resource for information for Christians. Therefore saying that both is cryptic is unwarranted. To make fun of the phrase "god is dead" means that the christians did not even make an attempt to understand what Nietsche meant, however in the case of the Bible, it takes a lot more effort to understand.
The irony is in the fact that the shirt is that the joke is on them (the christians).
On July 09 2012 00:05 koreasilver wrote: Obviously it's pointless to even talk to you about Zarathustra in particular. If Zarathustra was so "clear and concise" as you claim, then there wouldn't be so many different interpretations of the text as a whole, and even more so for the various themes that are in it. But obviously you know more than the thousands of scholars that have worked at the text for the past century.
Fucking inane as all hell.
I don't know what your even talking about. What are you saying? Who are these thousands of scholars + Show Spoiler +
On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote: So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid
Nope but "God is dead" is probably the most famous quote by him, maybe even in philosophy, and probably the only passage I remember of Nietsche right now haha.
On July 08 2012 23:51 sluggaslamoo wrote: I don't understand the motive for the question though. I still somewhat remember what Nietsche meant by God is dead 5 years ago, even though I've been to church quite a few times going through bible scriptures on holidays and don't remember any passages from the bible.
I don't understand, sorry. Do you mean that because you remember Zarathustra and not the Bible, then the Bible is "invalid"? I would also like to point out that while Nietzsche wrote other works, the Bible is actually made of many works and many authors, in a similar way, allowing cross examination (which seemed to be your point).
On July 08 2012 23:51 sluggaslamoo wrote: The joke isn't funny because it doesn't make any sense. Just like how its not funny if an Atheist started selling tea shirts saying "The world was left in the hands of 2 acid-tripping dumb naked teenagers and now they are dead, thank god".
The people that don't get the joke, needs someone to explain it for them. The people that get the joke, know what the phrase actually meant, so its not funny. The people that laugh at it, don't get the joke. The joke being that it was not what the church intended.
Actually the joke is funny because they don't understand it in the first place! Take my quote for example, it's from a poem by Aragon and the first part loosely means "what is long for someone may be short for someone else". If I put it on a t-shirt, I could sell it to slutty sorority girls, and the only reason they would find it funny is because they don't understand in the first place! If you explain it, it's less funny than if you don't, because it doesn't even closely relate to phallic objects in the original context.
Humor is a subjective thing!
On July 08 2012 23:56 Kuja wrote: Exactly my point, the fact that you can so easily come to that conclusion proves how clear and concise that point was.
On July 09 2012 00:08 corumjhaelen wrote: So wait, everybody here perfectly understand everything Nietzsche ever wrote according to themselves ? Man, I'm so stupid
Nah, they're just playing tough. I guess there are only one or maybe two posters who really understand Nietzsche here. That's the internet for you.
EPT
