• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:20
CET 19:20
KST 03:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win22025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest3
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET [ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Just for future reference, …
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1381 users

D3 Secondary Market Thoughts

Blogs > Misanthrope
Post a Reply
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
June 15 2012 16:53 GMT
#1
I applaud Blizzard's efforts to create and oversee a healthy secondary item market, but it raises some interesting concerns.

1. It directly supports pay to win. This issue can be divided between PvE and PvP.

PvE - Athene is the most striking example of what can be accomplished by abusing the market. In a player vs environment game buying gear with real money doesn't affect anyone else's experience. The one exception is when going for world-first records, but at the time those records are created there its unlikely there's a large enough secondary market to influence it. In games like Diablo, where the time invested:skill rests along the lines of 70:30, players whose time is more valuable than money can bypass the gear part and move on directly to the skill. Doctors, CEOs, and lawyers fall in this category. In player vs environment games where there are time investment elements beyond learning game mechanics, such as grinding for gear, I support such an entity. This is also similar to using cheats in GTA to get access to the rocket launcher right off the bat as opposed to investing in a ton of criminal enterprises to earn the money to buy it at Ammu-nation.

PvP - In player vs player games, this becomes a more broad ethical issue. Games are about fun, and for many the most fun comes at the expense of others by virtue of their skill. Being able to buy an item that negates the skill deficit between two players trivializes the efforts of the more skilled player, unless that skilled player also purchases the item. When this situation exists, there is a strong incentive to continue to create even slightly overpowered items to sell for small amounts of money as long as the playerbase continues buying. If a developer opts out of this practice, like Blizzard has, and forces players to spend time instead of money, the player whose time is more valuable than money turns to the grey market to keep up in the arms race. They then face possible fraud or theft of their money and even identity when purchasing from a third party, and also put their account and all the money invested in it at risk. The developer is presented with the decision to invest their time and money policing parties who participate in this practice, or to create, regulate, and maintain a secondary market on their own. Because of their ability to tax the market, there is a similar monetary incentive for developers as for the grey market brokers. There is also probably less opportunity cost in powering a server and paying a few employees to oversee the market relative to the retainer fees of the legal team needed to shut down third parties. Because of these factors, developer-maintained secondary markets are almost inevitable.

Where it becomes fascinating is that as long as a player can purchase the same advantage with both currencies, that is time or money, skilled players who otherwise wouldn't be able to compete because of lack of time to invest now can, and players who couldn't compete because of lack of money now can, effectively elevating the level of competition by encouraging a larger playerbase. Everyone along the spectrum, between no life basement dweller with infinite time, and super rich 120 hour workweek CEO with infinite money, can invest a suitable ratio of time to money in order to purchase equivalency, leaving their skill as the deciding factor. Lack of gross amounts of dispensable income leads to developers making the grind interesting for the majority of players who must invest time, and at the same time encourages depth and replayability in the skill based portion so that players with excess money will keep coming back and the grinders consider their investment worthwhile. This all leads to more bang for your buck when it comes to the initial purchase price of a game.

2. It gives intelligent players a chance to make money through legitimate arbitrage.

In Diablo 3, players are able to sell their time for money. This is done by killing the same groups of enemies over and over, who drop items of diverse rarity and power. Those who play the odds by killing an enemy many times are more likely to earn higher quality items, which are in higher demand. These items are then sold either for real money, or for in-game gold, which can also be sold for real money. Either way, a player who is able to effectively maximize their ability to earn high demand items through time investment and clever use of game mechanics can actually earn thousands of dollars doing so. You may have notice that nothing I've described so far is actual arbitrage, and is closer to a typical job. Here's where the fun comes in: players who understand the auction house mechanics, user base, and trends are able to effectively speculate for profit. That is, thousands of dollars in profit can be made in a very short time in exactly the same way Wall St. day traders do. This makes the game even more exciting because just like day traders, they can also lose just as much just as quickly. It gives a greater amount of depth to a system that is already encouraging even more depth. If I had to guess, I'd say this is going to create quite an awesome feedback loop of game design, leaving open new channels of innovation for developers to compete with one another and making the consumer experience even more badass.

There is a dark side to all of this however. Those who can organize a group of laborers to operate at the lowest possible opportunity cost makes the most profit. Countries like China in which human rights may as well be nonexistent offer the cheapest labor, and thus the lowest opportunity cost. For these people, a bed to sleep in and a bowl of rice twice a day is a suitable wage. Exportation and exploitation of Chinese labor is an old tale in this day and age, and something we tend to accept as a fact of life. But when companies engage in the act of creating digital secondary markets in which such labor efforts are encouraged, the company is profiting as well via transaction costs. There is no regulating legal body I'm aware of that is capable of oversight in this situation, and if there indeed is none, then the ethics of the situation just fade into the ether that Douglas Adams named the "Somebody Else's Problem field." Now we've gone from companies such as Blizzard stomping out such activities with the cooperation of policing entities in China to Blizzard turning a blind eye to the matter as long as their pockets get fatter.

Such a situation is inevitable to some degree as long as the cost of doing so is worth the risk, and it'll be interesting to see how the world handles it as we move into further into our digitized global era.

Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Jinsho
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3101 Posts
June 15 2012 18:28 GMT
#2
And all of that already exists and would have existed and will exist regardless of the RMAH. It's just now available to even the most ignorant of people.
zachMEISTER
Profile Joined December 2010
United States625 Posts
June 15 2012 20:38 GMT
#3
On June 16 2012 03:28 Jinsho wrote:
And all of that already exists and would have existed and will exist regardless of the RMAH. It's just now available to even the most ignorant of people.

This.

Cept now Blizzard is the middle-man, instead of some Chinese guy calling you on the phone to verify, and to give you game/password for your items.
psillypsybic!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
SteadfastSC130
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko465
SteadfastSC 130
ProTech102
JuggernautJason70
MindelVK 45
Codebar 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1232
Shuttle 618
Mini 166
Soulkey 117
Dewaltoss 97
Larva 66
Rock 57
soO 23
HiyA 6
iFU.spx 4
Dota 2
Gorgc5979
qojqva3501
Dendi1032
Fuzer 265
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1141
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu34
Other Games
FrodaN1452
fl0m1242
Grubby1053
ceh9462
KnowMe247
B2W.Neo238
Liquid`VortiX213
Harstem206
Skadoodle150
Hui .150
ArmadaUGS113
C9.Mang081
syndereN79
Mew2King64
Trikslyr50
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 73
• Reevou 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• 3DClanTV 50
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1772
• WagamamaTV528
• Ler91
League of Legends
• Nemesis3269
• imaqtpie1544
• TFBlade701
Other Games
• Shiphtur197
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 40m
The PondCast
14h 40m
OSC
17h 40m
CrankTV Team League
18h 40m
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
1d 15h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 17h
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
1d 17h
CrankTV Team League
1d 18h
BASILISK vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.